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Good battle reports, I enjoyed reading them all.

For what it's worth (very little) I agree with you on the game 6 "issue" and I applaud you for keeping the drama from your last game private. Honestly that is how it should be, the Internet masses don't need to know the details. All it does is feed the troll machine, you left on good terms with all of your opponents and that is all that matters, end of story as far as I am concerned.

When/if you hit up tournaments in the future I'd like to see more battle reports.

Nice batreps man. Was a nice read and you documented them well. Thanks for spending the time writing them.
I also second vinjankmons praise on not saying what caused your last game to end prematurely.

Thx for the Batrep and all thge tim eyou put into writing it.

I have no idea what the 'issue' was overall, I assume it had to do with the Fire Prisms somehow. A high level description would be nice so that people can avoid this situation in the future, but if you do not want to share that is okay.

His deployment is pretty crazy, also maxed Dev squads seems to be a losing proposition to me.

Good bat reps! I really enjoyed reading them, they kept me from doing any work for hours haha.

I'm extremely confused on your last opponent, who bunches up like that? I would be crying if 25 of my marines were under a template...honestly crying....

TobinRoss89 wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:

TobinRoss89 wrote:Hey I was wondering what your total battle points were for day 2?

Max minus 4 for the table objectives I tied game 5


That is weird I had the same score , I wonder how they broke up the tie...

you had 68 battle points? If your the sweet tyranid army you cant win overall and best general.

If you had 64 battle points I would assume the tie was broken on strength of schedule.

Were you the blood angels player who was right next to our table?

For what it's worth you cheated "too" - that wave serpent that got immobilized in game 6 should have been wrecked, because you turbo-boosted in your turn.

I don't think he was cheating you though. Couple reasons:

"How many wounds does it have" is a general question we hear all the time - it's referring to how many are on the profile. And whether he SNUCK in the wound or not, you say yourself you saw him remove a little blue counter - that's what he uses for wounds man, he's got a whole stack of them. If there was a blue stone there, it got wounded ahead of time. But wait, there's more.

A single melta shot would have also wiped the entire unit. When the tomb spyder goes, the swarms it made go with it. If he really wanted you not to assault, he could have put your single wound on it, killed it, and taken the swarm with him. This would have been another rule you were unaware of, that you couldn't get too upset about him not telling you [because it's not usually crucial. Like really, it's hardly ever important at all], but would have equally screwed your assault.

You did right though, it's always best to let things slide. I don't like the forum attacks, but during the game, smile-and-nod is the best policy. I had to do something similar against my witchhunter opponent and his....interesting interpretations on how vehicles move. I also thought he fired a couple one-shot weapons more than once, I think I switched in my head which units had eviscerators [my fault, didn't keep track] and he re-tried failed acts of faith, which you can't do, and I knew you couldn't do, but I didn't want to raise a stink and make him dig out his codex so I suffered for it. Though the squad they were shooting at was diminished and probably would have died WITHOUT the help of divine guidance so meh.


My biggest question is: How do you find time to take all those pictures and still finish the game?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I needed to reload to see the last couple reports. Another couple comments.

Never ram with a transport filled with dudes. You went 21". If you got immobilized, you'd be dead. But either way, your fire dragons should have been dead. If you turbo-boost and get blown up on your opponent's turn, that's fine. But if you turbo-boost into terrain or ram someone and get blown up, the unit cannot disembark and dies. Be careful with that.

I'm not sure why he conceded the game. 25 marines, separate squads so that's at least 3 squads. Assuming, say, 8-man devastator squads or the like? Sure, it hurts and he loses like 13 marines since everything in the tournament was area terrain and they all get 4+ cover - but he had options. He could have gone to ground to get a 3+ cover. Or he can take it like a man and then keep firing. Oh well.


As far as your army goes......

Warwalkers warwalkers warwalkers!!!

S6 shots will insta-kill those razorwing swarms, but if you shoot 3-4 shots at a time, he'll put them on the T5 chimeras. If you did like FOURTEEN wounds, like warwalkers would do, the razorwings would all crumble to dust. You'd also get a wound on the beastmaster and a wound a turn on that baron, who might roll a 1!

They also love flickerfields. Fire prism does one hit. Passed a cover save? Nuts. Whole thing wasted. 6 penetrating and 4 glancing hits from warwalkers? Have fun with that bud....

Only time in your battles I'd rather have the fire prisms was vs. those paladins, and honestly once the rest of his army is dead, dropping 15 fire dragons on one squad [out of assault range and in cover with relation to the other squad] would probably clean it out well - finish off with S6 shots. The odds aren't good but they're not abysmal. 1 in 6 wounds rolls a 1. Half of those get saved by feel no pain, meaning basically 1 in 12 wounds gets through. That's a lot of wave serpents firing.

....or one unit of warwalkers

Stormcallers wrote:Good bat reps! I really enjoyed reading them, they kept me from doing any work for hours haha.

I'm extremely confused on your last opponent, who bunches up like that? I would be crying if 25 of my marines were under a template...honestly crying....

He must not have understood what Fire Prisms did. As soon as I saw that deployment, I said 'Wow, those guys are dead.' He still would have gotten FNP if it was only S6 AP3, but still, why make it that easy for your opponent. Even with FNP, that's 12.5 dead guys. Yikes.

I loved your reports.

First of all I really needed to see something like this. Usually when I come to places like dakka and read about Eldar, everything I can see is how bad they are. Transports are pricey, troops suck, FA sucks, everything sucks..
I don't play almost any tournaments. I prefer local gaming with friends over beer. But still. Having IG and SW as major opponents it's rough for Eldar player. Coupled with constant opinions how everything sucks in my army started to get a bit into my head. I was kinda loosing any zeal to play. Even though having much more wins than losses. It's really "refreshing" to see those reports. Going to play tomorrow with all kinds of crap like Warp Spiders and Dark Reapers. I have no idea why but I really want to play after reading this.

Second thing about opinions.
This was the thing I personally enjoyed. Maybe not everything but the personal approach to game play made it very enjoyable. I really hope more people would write like that.

People, you really should put yourself in his shoes. He HAD a very bad luck with dice all day. Don't try to deny this. This can be very, very frustrating. Coupled with playing against hated army can be irritating.
Maybe I received it kinda differently but what's wrong with hating an army? "Hate the game, not the playa". That's what I got from this batrep. Some words were too strong, but again - bad day and personal approach were very good. I think we all felt and will fill about some armies, situations and battles that way. Tone it somewhat down and it's perfect.

Not too frequent to see Eldar without warding. You were a bit lucky not facing one opponent with any psyhic abilities. Maybe that was the other side of a luck coin? Last time I entered tournament w/o psyhic protection I was wtfpwned because of that

pretre wrote:

Stormcallers wrote:Good bat reps! I really enjoyed reading them, they kept me from doing any work for hours haha.

I'm extremely confused on your last opponent, who bunches up like that? I would be crying if 25 of my marines were under a template...honestly crying....

He must not have understood what Fire Prisms did. As soon as I saw that deployment, I said 'Wow, those guys are dead.' He still would have gotten FNP if it was only S6 AP3, but still, why make it that easy for your opponent. Even with FNP, that's 12.5 dead guys. Yikes.

It's less than that. He gets a 4+ cover for the marines behind the first unit, and then his 4+ FNP.

Well I enjoyed reading all of your battle reports. I don't know about everyone else, but I would always start laughing whenever you would reserve and you would write herpderpreserveslol

Good job on getting a prize and stuff.

whitedragon wrote:

pretre wrote:
He must not have understood what Fire Prisms did. As soon as I saw that deployment, I said 'Wow, those guys are dead.' He still would have gotten FNP if it was only S6 AP3, but still, why make it that easy for your opponent. Even with FNP, that's 12.5 dead guys. Yikes.

It's less than that. He gets a 4+ cover for the marines behind the first unit, and then his 4+ FNP.

Hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the second squad is entirely above the first squad, so no cover save. I'd have to lower my head and check on the actual table to make the call, but that's my gut. If no part of the models above are obscured by the models below, no cover save (gap rule doesnt' appear to apply either).

pretre wrote:

whitedragon wrote:

pretre wrote:
He must not have understood what Fire Prisms did. As soon as I saw that deployment, I said 'Wow, those guys are dead.' He still would have gotten FNP if it was only S6 AP3, but still, why make it that easy for your opponent. Even with FNP, that's 12.5 dead guys. Yikes.

It's less than that. He gets a 4+ cover for the marines behind the first unit, and then his 4+ FNP.

Hard to tell from the pics, but it looks like the second squad is entirely above the first squad, so no cover save. I'd have to lower my head and check on the actual table to make the call, but that's my gut. If no part of the models above are obscured by the models below, no cover save (gap rule doesnt' appear to apply either).

The tourney rules stated that all area terrain was a 4+ cover save. So maybe I should have been more specific, since the front unit was already behind a wall, the unit behind them were on the area terrain raised pad which should have been a 4+ save as well.

EDIT:
Unless they agreed before the game it was not area terrain I suppose.

Smitty0305 wrote:

TobinRoss89 wrote:

Smitty0305 wrote:

TobinRoss89 wrote:Hey I was wondering what your total battle points were for day 2?

Max minus 4 for the table objectives I tied game 5


That is weird I had the same score , I wonder how they broke up the tie...

you had 68 battle points? If your the sweet tyranid army you cant win overall and best general.

If you had 64 battle points I would assume the tie was broken on strength of schedule.

Were you the blood angels player who was right next to our table?

I was the Angels player next you guys. I guess they must of done strength of schedule's (though I did play the overall winner round 3), or lol maybe the heroic 28s guys just don't like me. But overall the tournament was great and I can't complain, its a shame we didn't get to play. Maybe at Bols con we can throw down good sir

Yeah all terrain was area terrain. All those marines would have gotten 4+ cover. And I didn't even consider FNP. 4+ 4+, I don't see why the guy was so upset. Geez.

now, 20 marines with 4 meltaguns being unable to kill 2 wave serpents over 3 turns of shooting phases and being able to assault with 20 grenades, that's something to be upset about, right Brad?

Ahh, didn't know about that ruling. Definitely don't see why he would quite then. But I guess that is the mystery.

Macok wrote:People, you really should put yourself in his shoes. He HAD a very bad luck with dice all day. Don't try to deny this. This can be very, very frustrating. Coupled with playing against hated army can be irritating.
Maybe I received it kinda differently but what's wrong with hating an army?

I have bad luck with the dice EVERY day, I understand what its like to get unlucky rolls, and while its frustrating, Smitty seems to be a good enough player to work around it, but I like reading battle reports with more objectivity/tactical perspective. And based upon who I play, I should hate almost every army out there but space marines and necrons, because all I play are the various competitive forms of Orks, IG, Wolves, Dark Eldar, and Grey Knights (though one of the guys that plays also has an Eldar army, but he doesn't play it often), but I don't hate the armies, there are ways to counter it, and there are uphill battles... some steeper than others. The grey knights have lots of things that make them tough to kill, but if you faced a grey knights player that stacked all of his marines up like the BA player, would you say you hated grey knights, or would you say the guy made a very move by doing that? I'm guessing the latter... Your disdain for Grey Knights only came out because he was just luckier than you... being carried by a codex seems to just be saying "if this was a fair fight, I would have roflstomped him..." but we all know 40k isn't fair and balanced

Eldar can compete, but when they get to the top tables is when they start to stumble.

Grey Knights with their Psyfleman Dreads are just one more thing that makes Mech Eldar that much harder to win with. It started with the IG codex when they gave them the hydra flak tanks and then continued with Long Fangs, and now the GK Dreads.

As far as Eldar troops goes, I love them! Of course I am a foot Eldar player so I have a different perspective on these things. Sure some of the troops do not go with Mech Eldar, but I hate to waste 300 points to unlock extra Wave Serpents. and to get scoring units. That means that you are playing a 1700 point army against 2000 point armies especially in KP missions.

One of the things I would have done to beef up your troops is to add one of my favorite units:
3 Jetbikes w/Shuriken Cannon
Warlock w/Singing Spear and Destructor

This unit is good against just about anything. Anti-tank, anti-horde, you name it, and it comes in at only 134 points!

Edit:
In reviewing your list you sure did give up quality for quantity. All of your units are bare-bones and not just the troops.
No Star Lance or Shuriken Cannon on the Shining Spears Exarch
No Holo-Fields on the Fire Prisms
No Spirit Stones on the Falcons

Never will be, unless Matt Ward writes the next codex too.

"MMk, I keep failing armor saves - let's give everyone feel no pain"

"Damn, I keep losing! Ok, Now I need an army that ignores feel no pain..."

"Damn, I keep losing! Ok, now I need an army that prevents rending and reduces enemy initiative..."

Spellbound wrote:For what it's worth you cheated "too" - that wave serpent that got immobilized in game 6 should have been wrecked, because you turbo-boosted in your turn.

I don't think he was cheating you though. Couple reasons:

"How many wounds does it have" is a general question we hear all the time - it's referring to how many are on the profile. And whether he SNUCK in the wound or not, you say yourself you saw him remove a little blue counter - that's what he uses for wounds man, he's got a whole stack of them. If there was a blue stone there, it got wounded ahead of time. But wait, there's more.

A single melta shot would have also wiped the entire unit. When the tomb spyder goes, the swarms it made go with it. If he really wanted you not to assault, he could have put your single wound on it, killed it, and taken the swarm with him. This would have been another rule you were unaware of, that you couldn't get too upset about him not telling you [because it's not usually crucial. Like really, it's hardly ever important at all], but would have equally screwed your assault.

You did right though, it's always best to let things slide. I don't like the forum attacks, but during the game, smile-and-nod is the best policy. I had to do something similar against my witchhunter opponent and his....interesting interpretations on how vehicles move. I also thought he fired a couple one-shot weapons more than once, I think I switched in my head which units had eviscerators [my fault, didn't keep track] and he re-tried failed acts of faith, which you can't do, and I knew you couldn't do, but I didn't want to raise a stink and make him dig out his codex so I suffered for it. Though the squad they were shooting at was diminished and probably would have died WITHOUT the help of divine guidance so meh.


My biggest question is: How do you find time to take all those pictures and still finish the game?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I needed to reload to see the last couple reports. Another couple comments.

Never ram with a transport filled with dudes. You went 21". If you got immobilized, you'd be dead. But either way, your fire dragons should have been dead. If you turbo-boost and get blown up on your opponent's turn, that's fine. But if you turbo-boost into terrain or ram someone and get blown up, the unit cannot disembark and dies. Be careful with that.

I'm not sure why he conceded the game. 25 marines, separate squads so that's at least 3 squads. Assuming, say, 8-man devastator squads or the like? Sure, it hurts and he loses like 13 marines since everything in the tournament was area terrain and they all get 4+ cover - but he had options. He could have gone to ground to get a 3+ cover. Or he can take it like a man and then keep firing. Oh well.


As far as your army goes......

Warwalkers warwalkers warwalkers!!!

S6 shots will insta-kill those razorwing swarms, but if you shoot 3-4 shots at a time, he'll put them on the T5 chimeras. If you did like FOURTEEN wounds, like warwalkers would do, the razorwings would all crumble to dust. You'd also get a wound on the beastmaster and a wound a turn on that baron, who might roll a 1!

They also love flickerfields. Fire prism does one hit. Passed a cover save? Nuts. Whole thing wasted. 6 penetrating and 4 glancing hits from warwalkers? Have fun with that bud....

Only time in your battles I'd rather have the fire prisms was vs. those paladins, and honestly once the rest of his army is dead, dropping 15 fire dragons on one squad [out of assault range and in cover with relation to the other squad] would probably clean it out well - finish off with S6 shots. The odds aren't good but they're not abysmal. 1 in 6 wounds rolls a 1. Half of those get saved by feel no pain, meaning basically 1 in 12 wounds gets through. That's a lot of wave serpents firing.

....or one unit of warwalkers

yea my wave serpent game 5 should have been destroyed. I dont think it impacted the game, but honestly the thought didnt enter my mind I just compleatly forgot. Woops.
The Fire dragons in the wave serpent turn 6 didnt do anything else.....so it didnt make a difference.

As far as the tombspider issue, Im not sure if eric purposely cheated me or not, Ill go edit the report to say that. I felt cheated. Im not sure if I actually was cheated. I made it very clear what my intent was, so when he removed the model I was very surprised.

As far as the last game you can get Neil's side of the story. I just dont think its worth bringing it up as neil and I talked and resolved the issue entirely.

As far as war walkers. I have 9 war walkers. If you wana play me sometime with 9 war walkers Im game. The only reason I dont like war walkers , is they are slow , and are basically target practice. I can go into a three paragraph synopsis of why I dont bring war walkers, but basically it comes down to the fact that they are slow, they die easily, they force me to engage where my opponent wants instead of where I want.

And yea I take pictures really quick, hense why they are so blurry lol.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

pretre wrote:

Stormcallers wrote:Good bat reps! I really enjoyed reading them, they kept me from doing any work for hours haha.

I'm extremely confused on your last opponent, who bunches up like that? I would be crying if 25 of my marines were under a template...honestly crying....

He must not have understood what Fire Prisms did. As soon as I saw that deployment, I said 'Wow, those guys are dead.' He still would have gotten FNP if it was only S6 AP3, but still, why make it that easy for your opponent. Even with FNP, that's 12.5 dead guys. Yikes.

his fnp libbies were actually with his assult squads, but he had a 4+ cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Blackmoor wrote:Eldar can compete, but when they get to the top tables is when they start to stumble.

Grey Knights with their Psyfleman Dreads are just one more thing that makes Mech Eldar that much harder to win with. It started with the IG codex when they gave them the hydra flak tanks and then continued with Long Fangs, and now the GK Dreads.

As far as Eldar troops goes, I love them! Of course I am a foot Eldar player so I have a different perspective on these things. Sure some of the troops do not go with Mech Eldar, but I hate to waste 300 points to unlock extra Wave Serpents. and to get scoring units. That means that you are playing a 1700 point army against 2000 point armies especially in KP missions.

One of the things I would have done to beef up your troops is to add one of my favorite units:
3 Jetbikes w/Shuriken Cannon
Warlock w/Singing Spear and Destructor

This unit is good against just about anything. Anti-tank, anti-horde, you name it, and it comes in at only 134 points!

Edit:
In reviewing your list you sure did give up quality for quantity. All of your units are bare-bones and not just the troops.
No Star Lance or Shuriken Cannon on the Shining Spears Exarch
No Holo-Fields on the Fire Prisms
No Spirit Stones on the Falcons

Embolden Lock with Shuriken cannon is interesting.

Star Lances are situational and a cannon on the exarch is pretty meh as well in my opinion.

I dont do holo fields on prisms. My Prisms arnt generally targeted. Holo fields also makes it mathmatically higher to loose the prism cannon. I like them on falcons, but not prisms, just a personal preference of mine.
Spirit stones on falcon, meh.

And yea my list is pretty "bare-bones" , I think it has some effective choices tho.

Blackmoor wrote:
One of the things I would have done to beef up your troops is to add one of my favorite units:
3 Jetbikes w/Shuriken Cannon
Warlock w/Singing Spear and Destructor

This unit is good against just about anything. Anti-tank, anti-horde, you name it, and it comes in at only 134 points!

That unit would have trouble killing a half-squad of marines. It's got one gun that can hurt a tank, but only from a foot away. That unit isn't good at anything except late game objective grabbing if it were somehow still alive. It can do that without a warlock.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:
One of the things I would have done to beef up your troops is to add one of my favorite units:
3 Jetbikes w/Shuriken Cannon
Warlock w/Singing Spear and Destructor

This unit is good against just about anything. Anti-tank, anti-horde, you name it, and it comes in at only 134 points!

That unit would have trouble killing a half-squad of marines. It's got one gun that can hurt a tank, but only from a foot away. That unit isn't good at anything except late game objective grabbing if it were somehow still alive. It can do that without a warlock.

Do you see a lot of tac squads running around these days?

Do you need me to post links to my batreps where they are frying squads of genestealers to killing land raiders?

Most units are MSU and are 5 men strong, but marines on foot are the one thing that struggle against, but they are good at killing the other things that you will see with Marines like their vehicles.

And the Cannon can also hurt vehicles. You forget about the speed of the unit and getting side shots.

Your army is beautiful! Congrats on winning best general for the lower bracket...

There is a lot of negativity in your post, though... I know you address that, and say that you don't like the army / not the person / etc. But it's not much fun to play someone who is upset about their dice (or the opponent's army composition in the case of the grey knights) the whole game...

But man is your army ever a killer to look at

I'd ditch the Spears. What did they do for your that whole tourney? I read the list, saw the Spears, went 'eww, that's rare', read the reports, and now I can't remember a single game where they did something important.

The Grog wrote:I'd ditch the Spears. What did they do for your that whole tourney? I read the list, saw the Spears, went 'eww, that's rare', read the reports, and now I can't remember a single game where they did something important.

They are a situational unit that with my autarchs cause a triple threat. I didnt fight any meq armies so a situation never arrived for them to excel.

They also cause my opponent to react and put shots on them changing the game dynamic.

It also causes a counter charge for my skimmers.

I am confused, would you change anything at all about your list or are you just about married to it? Everytime someone makes a suggestion it seems to be straight up shot down.

calypso2ts wrote:I am confused, would you change anything at all about your list or are you just about married to it? Everytime someone makes a suggestion it seems to be straight up shot down.

I bring a different variation eldar list to each tournament I go to.

I read what people type, playtest it, then bring the idea optimized to a tourney.

If you want to discuss eldar builds friend me and look for my many posts in the lists forum. Id rather this thread talk about implementation of the build instead of the actual build itself.

That provides a bit more perspective to your responses, although I think it is natural for people to evaluate a list's performance and try to 'solve' the issues that emerge. In many ways the actual play of the list and list tweaking are discussion naturally married to one another.

I actually really like your use of shining spears in the list, from a tactical perspective though I am surprised you did not reserve your army every game. Coming in on a 2+ means you could always perfectly respond to your enemies (unless your luck is atrocious). I know they are expensive, but it seems like Star Engines might be a natural fit to this kind of build as well, letting you really close and concentrate your forces rapidly.

I'm just confused by the "warwalkers are slow" comment. It's not like they're trying to get into hand to hand, and at the center of the field 36" covers the entire map. Multiple units of said warwalkers gives even greater coverage. Sure, long fangs could kill the warwalkers - if the long fangs survive the warwalkers' fire at all. And if you put them in cover with fortune, then that's not something one needs to worry about. They'd be great against grey knights too, as they can perpetually stay at 36" gunning them down. Try a Doom on a dreadknight and they could do a number on him, too.

But I understand the attraction of AP2 weaponry. So many times I've thought "I've got a million S5 attacks" or "god that's so many bolter shots I'll mow them down!" only to have my opponent laugh as he makes 30+ armor saves in a row. "REALLY?!"

Blackmoor wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

Blackmoor wrote:
One of the things I would have done to beef up your troops is to add one of my favorite units:
3 Jetbikes w/Shuriken Cannon
Warlock w/Singing Spear and Destructor

This unit is good against just about anything. Anti-tank, anti-horde, you name it, and it comes in at only 134 points!

That unit would have trouble killing a half-squad of marines. It's got one gun that can hurt a tank, but only from a foot away. That unit isn't good at anything except late game objective grabbing if it were somehow still alive. It can do that without a warlock.

Do you need me to post links to my batreps where they are frying squads of genestealers to killing land raiders?

Yes.