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yakface wrote:If you can't see the utility of including a squad or two of Interceptors and/or a Dreadknight with a personal teleporter for their ability to essentially completely redeploy once during the game, then oh well!

I mean sure, the Razorback/Dreadnought spam list will likely prove to me the most common, but that honestly doesn't change the fact that a one time 30" move on units that either are troops (or can be made to be troops) is a really good ability.



But yes, allowing those units to shunt during a Scout move would literally have made it possible for Daemon players to simply pack up their miniatures and walk away from the table if their Grey Knight opponent had a bunch of Interceptor Squads.

That alone is a good enough reason to rule against it.

Yes it is a wonderful ability and I had previously mentioned that I have used them in the way you were suggesting: late game objective grabbers. My argument was simply not understanding why the alpha-strike tactic with Interceptors is game-breaking while the alpha-strike tactic with other units in a Stormraven is totally okay.

The bit about Daemons is a good catch, I completely forgot that Interceptors had Warp Quake. That would be quite unfair against Daemons though to be fair the outcome wouldn't be changed either way. If GK player gets first turn, they don't need to scout shunt to auto-win against Daemons. If they get second turn, they won't be able to activate Warp Quake before the Daemons show up in their turn 1. I understand your point and I understand the wargear's versatility, I just found it difficult to understand why people were so afraid of alpha-striking interceptors but not other more powerful alpha-strike options in C:GK. I'm not complaining about the ruling as I will still use my Interceptors and have fun with them, I just didn't understand why people were so scared of them before.

Anyways, I should probably cease bumping the thread with somewhat unrelated posts. Regardless of the rulings it is nice to see a FAQ out of GW relatively quickly.

Sweet, scoring Psyflemen

Everything else is...interesting. I never really shunted so that doesnt affect me. I always preferred halberds/hammers to other weapons. Ehh the plasma siphon may be taken more but I'd rather buff out my GM/Libby but there will forever be cries I suppose. Overall I find most of it unexpected

<text redacted; quoted text has been redacted, obviating the need for this response --Janthkin>

<text redacted; quoted text has been redacted, obviating the need for this response --Janthkin>

... I think we can leave the debate over whether or not another forum member will or will not post. Much obliged.

The BRB FAQ has an interesting thing in it as well.


Mostly that the same psy power cast multiple times DOES stack.


HAMMERHAND does stack....

However, Psykers can only cast an individual spell once per turn, unless it specifically says otherwise.

Q: What counts as a plasma weapon for the Ulumeathi
Plasma Syphon? (p62)
A: All Plasma weapons, as well as Eldar missile
launchers firing plasma missiles, burst cannons,
starcannons, all Tau pulse weapons and any weapon
described as using ‘plasma’ as its effect or in its special
rules.

Wow, that's just, wow. Way to **** over tau with 90% of the their weaponry. The only weapons I can think of that arn't effected are rail guns, missile pods, seeker missiles, possibly Ion Cannons, kroot weapons, and vespid weapons. The tau Plasma rifle was an obvious one, but gees just wow.

fox-light713 wrote:

Q: What counts as a plasma weapon for the Ulumeathi
Plasma Syphon? (p62)
A: All Plasma weapons, as well as Eldar missile
launchers firing plasma missiles, burst cannons,
starcannons, all Tau pulse weapons and any weapon
described as using ‘plasma’ as its effect or in its special
rules.

Wow, that's just, wow. Way to **** over tau with 90% of the their weaponry. The only weapons I can think of that arn't effected are rail guns, missile pods, seeker missiles, possibly Ion Cannons, kroot weapons, and vespid weapons. The tau Plasma rifle was an obvious one, but gees just wow.

The 2 Special Issues Weapons, too.

Platuan4th wrote:

Polonius wrote:No answer on if multiple Hammerhands stack. That's a little disappointinig.

Actually, there is. It's just to be found in the BRB FAQ that also went up:

Pg. 3
Q: Do the effects of the same psychic power cast
multiple times on the same unit stack? (p50)
A: Yes, unless specifically stated otherwise.

This is...odd.

5 Tervigons casting Catalyst on a Carnifex brood.



Stacks in theory - does this mean rerolls on FNP?

Agh.

DarkStarSabre wrote:This is...odd.

5 Tervigons casting Catalyst on a Carnifex brood.



Stacks in theory - does this mean rerolls on FNP?

Agh.

Since the power specifically gives them FNP, a unit can't have FNP twice, and it isn't conducive to stacking like Hammerhand (+1 to strength, easy to figure stacking) then I would guess no.

DarkStarSabre wrote:

Stacks in theory - does this mean rerolls on FNP?

Agh.

FNP is a Special Rule. It stacks as much as multiple sources of Furious Charge. So you have FNP and you have FNP. You fail an armor save. Do you have FNP? Yes? Then get a single roll of 4+ to negate the wound. End of resolution.'

Sneaky sneaky ninja posts...

The things that kill carnifexes ignore FNP generally, so it wont matter.. and why arent you doing that on a hive tyrant or something better??

Or like genestealers.. or anything other than a carnifex imo

Wow, no shunt scouting. I guess it keeps it from breaking the game.

Vehicles can score. Of bloody course....

No 2xS from Doomfists? Really? Weird.

Wow! Way to bend Tau over the bed with the plasma syphon! Seriously. "Hey guys. I'm sorry to say only your Missile Pods, Flamers, and Kroot guns are any good."

Pretty much the rest is obvious answers to dumb questions.

fox-light713 wrote:
Wow, that's just, wow. Way to **** over tau with 90% of the their weaponry. The only weapons I can think of that arn't effected are rail guns, missile pods, seeker missiles, possibly Ion Cannons, kroot weapons, and vespid weapons. The tau Plasma rifle was an obvious one, but gees just wow.

Again, nobody will ever take this option in a take-all-comers list so is it really so terrible? Besides, it only affects weapons within 12"...I mean, seriously this thing is 15 points on a Xenos-Hunter Inquisitor. Is is absolutely garbage. I don't even really hesitate to say that you will absolutely school anyone who is clueless enough to take this in their army!

Not to be a dick, but it's not like:
1) Grey Knights weren't too worried about tau before
2) People were using the single piece of wargear this rule effects a lot

yakface wrote:

fox-light713 wrote:
Wow, that's just, wow. Way to **** over tau with 90% of the their weaponry. The only weapons I can think of that arn't effected are rail guns, missile pods, seeker missiles, possibly Ion Cannons, kroot weapons, and vespid weapons. The tau Plasma rifle was an obvious one, but gees just wow.

Again, nobody will ever take this option in a take-all-comers list so is it really so terrible? Besides, it only affects weapons within 12"...I mean, seriously this thing is 15 points on a Xenos-Hunter Inquisitor. Is is absolutely garbage. I don't even really hesitate to say that you will absolutely school anyone who is clueless enough to take this in their army!

Indeed. The Tau player would seriously need to bunch up for even 2 Inqs with these things(and then, you're seriously affecting the rest of your army) to shut them down.

fox-light713 wrote:Wow, that's just, wow. Way to **** over tau with 90% of the their weaponry. The only weapons I can think of that arn't effected are rail guns, missile pods, seeker missiles, possibly Ion Cannons, kroot weapons, and vespid weapons. The tau Plasma rifle was an obvious one, but gees just wow.

Wow, so, pretty much the most common Tau weapons are unaffected? What a horrible tragedy! There's also certainly no way you could get around the TWELVE INCHES FROM ONE T3 MODEL range of the Siphion with your 30"+ guns! Truly, the Siphon allows an automatic win for the GK player. [/sarcasm]

Really, let me know when the Siphon starts affecting meltaguns and not a ridiculously small subset of weapons from a ridiculously small range.

Polonius wrote:Not to be a dick, but it's not like:
1) Grey Knights weren't too worried about tau before
2) People were using the single piece of wargear this rule effects a lot

And...

3) it has a 12" range on a Xenos Hunter Inquisitor.


Seriously people! This is a terrible piece of wargear!

Might not be a horrible option if you're already taking a grenade inquisitor, Its only 10 pts anyway so for 65pts you get a guy who is pretty good for meta-purposes. Just have him in the middle of your line in a transport, if it makes 1 plasma gun BS1 per game that probably already paid for itself

.. It's almost like an Ordo xenos Inquisitor might have be extra good against certain xenos if he has time to plan and prepare.

reds8n wrote:.. It's almost like an Ordo xenos Inquisitor might have be extra good against certain xenos if he has time to plan and prepare.

Oh, snap!

What about the Vindicare Turbo round?

3+4D6+Rending?

4D6+Rending?


Does it Work on a Monolith?



A quick note on the Scout Shunt.

Interceptors did not need the 30" move in order to cover the board with Warp Quake if they got the first turn. 12" scout move, 12" move. 12" range. That puts the edge of the Warp Quake at the edge of the table. (In a pitched battle) I am not sure about Spearhead deployment.

You CAN still have board wide warp quake (in certain cases) before the daemons can get anything on the table.

One would assume that they haven't answered that as the Monolith rules might be worded differently sooner rather than later ?

reds8n wrote: One would assume that they haven't answered that as the Monolith rules might be worded differently sooner rather than later ?

We can only hope.

svendrex wrote:What about the Vindicare Turbo round?

3+4D6+Rending?

4D6+Rending?


Does it Work on a Monolith?

Well, we at least got this in the BRB FAQ:

Q: How does Rending work if you get to roll multiple
dice for the Armour Penetration roll? (p31)
A: The player gets to add a D3 to the total for each
dice that comes up with a 6.

No clue about monoliths. And that really doesn't directly answer your 3+ or not question.

Kirasu wrote:The things that kill carnifexes ignore FNP generally, so it wont matter.. and why arent you doing that on a hive tyrant or something better??

Or like genestealers.. or anything other than a carnifex imo

Hypothetical situation to point out the farcical nature of stacking.

Don't jump down the throat.

And why am I putting it on a brood of Carnifexes?

You ever see a brood of 3 Carnifexes with FNP roll up towards an Eldar, Guard or SM medium firepower line?* Autocannons? Lasguns? Bolters? Shuriken Catapults? Shuricannons? HAH.


*Disclaimer: Due to carnifexes being ridiculously overpriced, broods largely redundant and trygons being better in every way...probably not.

DarkStarSabre wrote:
You ever see a brood of 3 Carnifexes

Nope.

Well that psychic thing was out of left field. I guess it does stop people form trying to recast if they fail.

yakface wrote:

fox-light713 wrote:
Wow, that's just, wow. Way to **** over tau with 90% of the their weaponry. The only weapons I can think of that arn't effected are rail guns, missile pods, seeker missiles, possibly Ion Cannons, kroot weapons, and vespid weapons. The tau Plasma rifle was an obvious one, but gees just wow.

Again, nobody will ever take this option in a take-all-comers list so is it really so terrible?

Im going to put this out there, but I imagine there are alot, if not the majority of players who dont play competivley. Which means they probably play in a gaming group of anywhere from 3-6 players or so.

Now if there happens to be a Tau player and a GK player in that group.. you can bet the GK player will probably try at some point to find a way to abuse the Siphon. Not to mention 12" is actualy the distance that tau have maximum firepower at (rapidfire Firewarriors and plasma). In particular it makes the plasma rifle, the best weapon tau have against GK, usless in its optimal range.

When it becomes un-fun or nearly pointless for one race to face another in casual gaming, well then thats a serious balance issue regardless of what occurs in a competitve enviroment. Its just another reason for me not to take my tau when my group organises games, and when that happens it just dosent bode well for the hobby in general.

I'm pleased to see that with the falchions and scoring dreadnoughts, GW have gone with the 'rule as is bleeding obvious if common sense is applied and overthinking is banned' version and not the strict RAW.

I'd be more pleased if they could just phrase their rules simply and clearly in the first place.

I'm not too surprised the scout shunt has been disallowed but i wouldn't have been amazed if that ruling had gone the other way.