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yakface wrote:
But yes, allowing those units to shunt during a Scout move would literally have made it possible for Daemon players to simply pack up their miniatures and walk away from the table if their Grey Knight opponent had a bunch of Interceptor Squads and won the roll to go first.

Yeah, we'll still be doing that..., the FAQ doesn't change that.


Things that surprised me in the Grey Knight FAQ:

Dreadknight's Doomfist doesn't boost it's strength ("as its not a walker"). So what does it do for a non-walker, and why give it to them?

+2 Initiative for halberds being factored first (other modifiers trump them).

Vehicles being allowed to claim objectives - that's the first time they trumped the rulebook on that, I think. Though it makes Grand Strategy even better.

I think everything else is pretty much as expected.


In the overall FAQ:

What counts as a psychic shooting power?

Perhaps not a huge surprise (doe sit have a weapon profile, or say it is a shooting attack?), but might cause some revisions in the INAT. The phrasing in the Chaos Space Marine codex doesn't "specifically state" that Lash, Nurgle's Rot, Wind of Chaos are psychic shooting attacks. Same with the Eldar and Mindwar (Eldritch Storm has a profile, so definitely is), or Dark Angels and Mind Worm? I don't think this impacts any codexes besides those three, as the newer ones use the newer precise wording, and the other older ones don't use psychic powers.


Do Psychic Shooting attacks need to roll to hit? yes

If the powers that be decide Lash, etc. are still psychic shooting attacks (though this seems wrong), then we now need to roll to hit with it? How does this impact Eldritch Storm? The power says place a large blast marker. Do you now roll scatter to hit with it?

Coteaz's troop henchmen take up a FoC slot.

It feels good to be vindicated.

Redbeard wrote:

What counts as a psychic shooting power?

Perhaps not a huge surprise (doe sit have a weapon profile, or say it is a shooting attack?), but might cause some revisions in the INAT. The phrasing in the Chaos Space Marine codex doesn't "specifically state" that Lash, Nurgle's Rot, Wind of Chaos are psychic shooting attacks. Same with the Eldar and Mindwar (Eldritch Storm has a profile, so definitely is), or Dark Angels and Mind Worm? I don't think this impacts any codexes besides those three, as the newer ones use the newer precise wording, and the other older ones don't use psychic powers.

It doesn't impact the Eldar codex, actually:

Eldar FAQ

"Q. Which Eldar psychic powers are psychic shooting
attacks?
A. Destructor, Eldritch Storm and Mind War (though
they include a few exceptions to the normal shooting
rules, as specified in their description)."

Solourus wrote:
Im going to put this out there, but I imagine there are alot, if not the majority of players who dont play competivley. Which means they probably play in a gaming group of anywhere from 3-6 players or so.

Now if there happens to be a Tau player and a GK player in that group.. you can bet the GK player will probably try at some point to find a way to abuse the Siphon. Not to mention 12" is actualy the distance that tau have maximum firepower at (rapidfire Firewarriors and plasma). In particular it makes the plasma rifle, the best weapon tau have against GK, usless in its optimal range.

When it becomes un-fun or nearly pointless for one race to face another in casual gaming, well then thats a serious balance issue regardless of what occurs in a competitve enviroment. Its just another reason for me not to take my tau when my group organises games, and when that happens it just dosent bode well for the hobby in general.

And how exactly is this any worse then what a Daemon player has to face from any number of anti-daemon abilities, or assault armies that have to face sanctuary or deep strike armies vs. Warp quake?

The fact is, the grey knight player has to take a Xenos-hunter inquisitor to get this, which means they aren't taking any one of the better HQ choices they could take.

Serously, if anything this ruling made the plasma Syphon go from a complete joke to something you might take on a dare.

Platuan4th wrote:
It doesn't impact the Eldar codex, actually:

Eldar FAQ
...

Does that mean that Mind War needs to roll to hit now?

Plus as someone pointed out.

Ordo Xenos. Fighting aliens.

Tau. Xenos.

Do the math.

I'm a little surprised at the scoring Dreadnoughts. I *like* it but it seems off. Makes it even easier for GM lists to go for heavy mechanization. As for falchions, it's time to pop some hands off. Just from a text-editing sense I would've liked the book to say 'wielders of a pair of falchions get the +1A for wielding two CCW' or something so.

Hooray for 12" moving dreadknights with 2d6+Str AP.

The implications of the rulebook FAQ on hammerhand make IC+squad a little interesting. Now when you have a GM attached to paladins the question becomes hammerhand twice or hammerhand once and try to force weapon.

I'm glad GW had a reasonably quick turnaround time on the FAQ.

Redbeard wrote:

In the overall FAQ:

Do Psychic Shooting attacks need to roll to hit? yes

If the powers that be decide Lash, etc. are still psychic shooting attacks (though this seems wrong), then we now need to roll to hit with it? How does this impact Eldritch Storm? The power says place a large blast marker. Do you now roll scatter to hit with it?

In just about every game I've played, including tournament play, you've always used the scatter on Eldritch Storm. I'm not sure about Lash, but I don't think we've ever rolled to hit with Mind War though, like you were pointing out.

Solourus wrote:
When it becomes un-fun or nearly pointless for one race to face another in casual gaming, well then thats a serious balance issue regardless of what occurs in a competitve enviroment. Its just another reason for me not to take my tau when my group organises games, and when that happens it just dosent bode well for the hobby in general.

It's 12" from one model. It's very possible to place yourself so that you are within range of the inquisitors unit but not the Siphon, even at 12". Will it be something you have to tactically consider? Sure. But is not the unavoidable BS reduction people are making it out to be. It's basically the same thing as making sure your Crisis Suits are more than 12" away from enemy assault units at the end of your turn. Totally avoidable if you are actually paying attention to the game.

Redbeard wrote:
Dreadknight's Doomfist doesn't boost it's strength ("as its not a walker"). So what does it do for a non-walker, and why give it to them?

Good question - I'd assumed that they meant them to be S10, even though that made no sense when they could be "upgraded" to a hammer.

Redbeard wrote:
In the overall FAQ:

What counts as a psychic shooting power?

Perhaps not a huge surprise (doe sit have a weapon profile, or say it is a shooting attack?), but might cause some revisions in the INAT. The phrasing in the Chaos Space Marine codex doesn't "specifically state" that Lash, Nurgle's Rot, Wind of Chaos are psychic shooting attacks. Same with the Eldar and Mindwar (Eldritch Storm has a profile, so definitely is), or Dark Angels and Mind Worm? I don't think this impacts any codexes besides those three, as the newer ones use the newer precise wording, and the other older ones don't use psychic powers.


Do Psychic Shooting attacks need to roll to hit? yes

If the powers that be decide Lash, etc. are still psychic shooting attacks (though this seems wrong), then we now need to roll to hit with it? How does this impact Eldritch Storm? The power says place a large blast marker. Do you now roll scatter to hit with it?

Hmm. Isn't JotWW a PSA? It now needs to hit a targetted unit before they can draw a line?

Redbeard wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:
It doesn't impact the Eldar codex, actually:

Eldar FAQ
...

Does that mean that Mind War needs to roll to hit now?

Yes. Technically, Mind War has needed to roll to hit since 2009 when that FAQ came out. Also, according to the same FAQ, Mind War allows cover saves:

Q. Does Mind War allow cover saves?
A. Yes, this could represent the target diving behind
cover, out of sight of the Farseer and therefore
breaking the deadly mind-lock.

Slinky wrote:Good question - I'd assumed that they meant them to be S10, even though that made no sense when they could be "upgraded" to a hammer.

I always understood that it has Doomfists simply because they have similar sized hands to a Dreadnought. It would have been clearer to just say that it has two CCWs but then again everything needs "Nemesis" attached to it so I suppose that is another reason right there.

SonicPara wrote:

Slinky wrote:Good question - I'd assumed that they meant them to be S10, even though that made no sense when they could be "upgraded" to a hammer.

I always understood that it has Doomfists simply because they have similar sized hands to a Dreadnought. It would have been clearer to just say that it has two CCWs but then again everything needs "Nemesis" attached to it so I suppose that is another reason right there.

Them being Nemesis means that they're Force Weapons, probably why it was given the Doomfists despite not getting 2x S from them.

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:
So this means that Fluff = Rules. That is disappointing. :(

ETA (you edited your post after I replied):
I would have counted ALL C: CD, the Avatar, and Lesser and Greater Daemons in CSM.
Lesser and Greater Daemons don't have the Daemon Special Rule but they do have special summoning rules that refers to them as Daemons.

My defence of Daemon Princes in the past has been based around the agreement with most people who debated with me that surely possessed, oblits, etc don't count as daemons since they are described in the fluff as only being partially daemonic. But now, if my Great, Great, Great, Great, Great Grandfather was a daemon, and everyone else was Human, the GK would get PE against me!

historicaly in GW terms all of those things other than mandrakes and the mandrake character were classified as daemons for past GK stuff. Any chaos lord with more than 50 points in daemonic gifts was considered a daemon prince, which was considered a daemon raw. None of this is a surprise at all. Actually I think the mandrake stuff is kind of interesting from a fluff standpoint.

yakface wrote:

Solourus wrote:
Im going to put this out there, but I imagine there are alot, if not the majority of players who dont play competivley. Which means they probably play in a gaming group of anywhere from 3-6 players or so.

Now if there happens to be a Tau player and a GK player in that group.. you can bet the GK player will probably try at some point to find a way to abuse the Siphon. Not to mention 12" is actualy the distance that tau have maximum firepower at (rapidfire Firewarriors and plasma). In particular it makes the plasma rifle, the best weapon tau have against GK, usless in its optimal range.

When it becomes un-fun or nearly pointless for one race to face another in casual gaming, well then thats a serious balance issue regardless of what occurs in a competitve enviroment. Its just another reason for me not to take my tau when my group organises games, and when that happens it just dosent bode well for the hobby in general.

And how exactly is this any worse then what a Daemon player has to face from any number of anti-daemon abilities, or assault armies that have to face sanctuary or deep strike armies vs. Warp quake?

The fact is, the grey knight player has to take a Xenos-hunter inquisitor to get this, which means they aren't taking any one of the better HQ choices they could take.

Serously, if anything this ruling made the plasma Syphon go from a complete joke to something you might take on a dare.

When did I say it was any worse than what deamons get?

Your allso still thinking in terms of competitive armys. Alot of people dont read fourms or optimize their lists. Sure there are better competitive choices in the metagame. But if your playing casualy then this is a peice of wargear that is just not fun to play against.

Any wargear or rules that make the game less fun to play detracts from the hobby overall. Sure if you play in a competitive enviroment then this is unlikely to effect you in the slightest. Your probably not even taking tau, and no one will be taking the siphon. But I think we have established that im not refering to competitive play.

Its just bad game design.

Cerebrium wrote:Plus as someone pointed out.

Ordo Xenos. Fighting aliens.

Tau. Xenos.

Do the math.

Your a genius. Here lets try somethign else.

Eldar: See the future.

Ergo they wouldent fight a battle they were not going to win...

Eldar should never lose a battle!

I'm not sure why people are so shocked by the Halberd ruling.... Halberds give +2I, as we all know, and it is a modifier. SO the logic runs kind of like this, in order of how it goes off:

I = GK initiative
(I)+2 = GK init. with Halberd (checked at start of game)
*0+1 = Init. modifier for Lash Whip (Checked at start of CC round)
((I)+2)*0+1 = GK init under the influence of Lash whip

as opposed to

I = Howling Banshee init.
*0+1 = Init modifier for Lash whip (Checked at start of CC round)
*0+10 = Init modifier for mask (Checked at initiative count 10)
((I)*0+1)*0+10 = HB initiative under influence of whip and mask

How is this difficult?

Wow really? Huh, who woulda thought they would do that today.

Edit: Ok I read this crap.

My tau a screwed fighting these guys now it seems.

Fluff equals rules it seems, more reason to take the chaos lords I like.

Solourus wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:Plus as someone pointed out.

Ordo Xenos. Fighting aliens.

Tau. Xenos.

Do the math.

Your a genius. Here lets try somethign else.

Eldar: See the future.

Ergo they wouldent fight a battle they were not going to win...

Eldar should never lose a battle!

First of all, <snarky text redacted --Janthkin>

Second of all, there's a difference between Eldar being able to see the future and not fighting and Ordo Xenos being slightly better at fighting xenos. It's like saying Grey Knights shouldn't have any bonuses to fighting daemons.

Slinky wrote:I'd assumed that they meant them to be S10, even though that made no sense when they could be "upgraded" to a hammer.

Don't forget: Hammer forces a surviving model to go at init 1 the following round, iirc.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Q: For each Jokaero Weaponsmith in a henchman unit
after the first you add +1 to the Inconceivable
Customisation roll. Does this mean that if you have 6 or
more Jokaero in a unit that they will receive no
bonuses (as you cannot roll less than a 6 and duplicate
rolls are ignored)? (p50)
A: Yes.

Take 6 Jokaero - get no bonuses.
Take 5 Jokaero - get bonuses.

Wha...?

This kinda has me scratching my head too..

I thought 5+ you didn't actually get anything from the chart. or does that mean you auto get 2 rolls on the chart? (I feel kinda dumb asking this)

On the upside Whoo Hoo Core choices with Coteaz!

Dronze wrote:I'm not sure why people are so shocked by the Halberd ruling.... Halberds give +2I, as we all know, and it is a modifier. SO the logic runs kind of like this, in order of how it goes off:

I = GK initiative
(I)+2 = GK init. with Halberd (checked at start of game)
*0+1 = Init. modifier for Lash Whip (Checked at start of CC round)
((I)+2)*0+1 = GK init under the influence of Lash whip

as opposed to

I = Howling Banshee init.
*0+1 = Init modifier for Lash whip (Checked at start of CC round)
*0+10 = Init modifier for mask (Checked at initiative count 10)
((I)*0+1)*0+10 = HB initiative under influence of whip and mask

How is this difficult?

Because people don't want to/shouldn't have to break out pen and paper to figure out their unit's Initiative and why it is reduced in mathematical operations.

Cerebrium wrote:

Solourus wrote:

Cerebrium wrote:Plus as someone pointed out.

Ordo Xenos. Fighting aliens.

Tau. Xenos.

Do the math.

Your a genius. Here lets try somethign else.

Eldar: See the future.

Ergo they wouldent fight a battle they were not going to win...

Eldar should never lose a battle!

First of all,<text redacted --Janthkin>

Second of all, there's a difference between Eldar being able to see the future and not fighting and Ordo Xenos being slightly better at fighting xenos. It's like saying Grey Knights shouldn't have any bonuses to fighting daemons.

Hey, its late here give a man a break.

Besides it wouldent have hurt you to post a reasonable comment like you just did now instead of a rather condicending 3 second post. I gave my response the same amount of attention as you did your first post. It also was intended to be taken sarcasticly and not literaly.

I am betting Monoliths were not addressed in the FAQ 'cause of the probable Necron reboot incoming.

puma713 wrote:

Dronze wrote:I'm not sure why people are so shocked by the Halberd ruling.... Halberds give +2I, as we all know, and it is a modifier. SO the logic runs kind of like this, in order of how it goes off:

I = GK initiative
(I)+2 = GK init. with Halberd (checked at start of game)
*0+1 = Init. modifier for Lash Whip (Checked at start of CC round)
((I)+2)*0+1 = GK init under the influence of Lash whip

as opposed to

I = Howling Banshee init.
*0+1 = Init modifier for Lash whip (Checked at start of CC round)
*0+10 = Init modifier for mask (Checked at initiative count 10)
((I)*0+1)*0+10 = HB initiative under influence of whip and mask

How is this difficult?

Because people don't want to/shouldn't have to break out pen and paper to figure out their unit's Initiative and why it is reduced in mathematical operations.

A little bit of simple Order of operations after going through and running the numbers to make their army list? It's already established that the people who play this game *should* have a basic aptitude for simple arithmetic... and if they don't, then they need to be closing Armybuilder and pen-and-papering their lists up for a bit.

Okay I see the vindicare and the monolith not being answered. That is fine.


But there are still several people who are not sure whether is is 3+4D6 (what I think it is) or just 4D6.

My theory is that they didn't want to feth up the future Necrons codex in this FAQ, so they're just waiting for the new codex.

daedalus wrote:My theory is that they didn't want to feth up the future Necrons codex in this FAQ, so they're just waiting for the new codex.

And that means more editing work for the 1.1 FAQ when they release it a bazillion years into the future.

svendrex wrote:
A quick note on the Scout Shunt.

Interceptors did not need the 30" move in order to cover the board with Warp Quake if they got the first turn. 12" scout move, 12" move. 12" range. That puts the edge of the Warp Quake at the edge of the table. (In a pitched battle) I am not sure about Spearhead deployment.

You CAN still have board wide warp quake (in certain cases) before the daemons can get anything on the table.

Which is still lame. Honestly, I'm not sure who thought Warp Quake was a good idea.

<notification: keep comments civil and on-topic, please, as this thread is likely to be a fairly popular one>