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dajobe wrote:Thousand Sons>Space wolves
Magnus>Leman Russ
this is one of the few times i will speak against the imperium

Russ practically begged Magnus to give up quietly, he never begs.

dajobe wrote:Thousand Sons>Space wolves
Magnus>Leman Russ
this is one of the few times i will speak against the imperium

Ain't that the truth.

Ashryu wrote:If my dad was the most powerful human ever to have existed I think I would just shut up and do what he says.

Meh, the Emperor consistently underestimated what Magnus was capable of. When he "revealed" astral projection to him, Magnus had already been doing it for decades. Then the Emperor consistently displayed himself as close-minded and in denial of the wonders of the Great Ocean. Combine that with being by far the most intelligent of the Primarchs, and Magnus at least had if not an excuse then a reason for his arrogance. Combine that with the gene-flaw of impatience, and you have a recipe for disaster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Nobody wrote:
Russ practically begged Magnus to give up quietly, he never begs.

Of course, Magnus never heard this since what the Wolves thought was Magnus' spy really belonged to Horus/Chaos.

If he did hear his plea, he may have well answered and the conflict of Prospero would have gone very differently.

Omegus wrote:
Meh, the Emperor consistently underestimated what Magnus was capable of. When he "revealed" astral projection to him, Magnus had already been doing it for decades. Then the Emperor consistently displayed himself as close-minded and in denial of the wonders of the Great Ocean. Combine that with being by far the most intelligent of the Primarchs, and Magnus at least had if not an excuse then a reason for his arrogance. Combine that with the gene-flaw of impatience, and you have a recipe for disaster.

But only the Emperor recognised Magnus when he entered the Palace in astral form and the spell was the first time he had done it, even Ahriman commented on the power required, and once again Magnus thought he knew best. The Emperor was more taken aback by the blatant disregard for his orders.

The Emperor knew what the risks of the Warp were more than anyone else, Magnus was arrogant and deluded to think that he knew better than the Emperor. Look where that got him.

Omegus wrote:If he did hear his plea, he may have well answered and the conflict of Prospero would have gone very differently.

Magnus did have something or someone in place within the Wolves though.

Magnus was screwed the moment he did the deal with chaos to save his legion from the change. Tzeentch then just pulled his strings all the way. Stabbing Magnus in back all the way breaking each deal he made while tempting him further down the road with each step. Magnus was still desperately fighting it in BOTF.

Tzeentch never broke the deal, he just delayed cashing in his cheque.

Magnus thought he was the most powerful being in the warp, how wrong was he.

the word kerfuffle made me rofl

Pilau Rice wrote:

Omegus wrote:
Meh, the Emperor consistently underestimated what Magnus was capable of. When he "revealed" astral projection to him, Magnus had already been doing it for decades. Then the Emperor consistently displayed himself as close-minded and in denial of the wonders of the Great Ocean. Combine that with being by far the most intelligent of the Primarchs, and Magnus at least had if not an excuse then a reason for his arrogance. Combine that with the gene-flaw of impatience, and you have a recipe for disaster.

But only the Emperor recognised Magnus when he entered the Palace in astral form and the spell was the first time he had done it, even Ahriman commented on the power required, and once again Magnus thought he knew best. The Emperor was more taken aback by the blatant disregard for his orders.

The Emperor knew what the risks of the Warp were more than anyone else, Magnus was arrogant and deluded to think that he knew better than the Emperor. Look where that got him.

Omegus wrote:If he did hear his plea, he may have well answered and the conflict of Prospero would have gone very differently.

Magnus did have something or someone in place within the Wolves though.

He did but I don't think we ever found that out did we? Or was there something in Prospero Burns I missed, I'm not sure the book wasn't nearly as engaging as A Thousand Sons was
Besides if he did, it would be similar to how Wyrmdrake was a spy of the wolves as well
Its a bit hypocritical of Russ isnt it
But then again his whole stance on psykers was hypocritical

Would it have killed Russ to have made an announcement when he was on Prospero before he started destroying things?
Bleh the whole thing left a sour taste in my mouth honestly, the sheer hypocrisy of the Wolves was just astonishing
Right down to the cheap, incredibly lucky shot against Magnus during their duel, he had Russ on the ropes, the stupidity on the Wolves end just left a bad taste

Asuron wrote:
He did but I don't think we ever found that out did we?

Nope, it was mentioned in a conversation between Ahriman and Magnus, I think, in A Thousand Sons before Nikaea.

Asuron wrote:
Would it have killed Russ to have made an announcement when he was on Prospero before he started destroying things?
Bleh the whole thing left a sour taste in my mouth honestly, the sheer hypocrisy of the Wolves was just astonishing
Right down to the cheap, incredibly lucky shot against Magnus during their duel, he had Russ on the ropes

And let the Thousand Sons blast them from space? Maybe if Horus had not have said that the Emperors orders had changed Russ might have been open to talks with Magnus beforehand, but that conversation changed everything. Why it wasn't mentioned in Prospero Burns I don't know though.

Russ is a brawler, if Magnus, the new and improved version with added Daemony goodness don't forget, went into the fight expecting anything less, then fool him.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Asuron wrote:
He did but I don't think we ever found that out did we?

Nope, it was mentioned in a conversation between Ahriman and Magnus, I think, in A Thousand Sons before Nikaea.

Asuron wrote:
Would it have killed Russ to have made an announcement when he was on Prospero before he started destroying things?
Bleh the whole thing left a sour taste in my mouth honestly, the sheer hypocrisy of the Wolves was just astonishing
Right down to the cheap, incredibly lucky shot against Magnus during their duel, he had Russ on the ropes

And let the Thousand Sons blast them from space? Maybe if Horus had not have said that the Emperors orders had changed Russ might have been open to talks with Magnus beforehand, but that conversation changed everything. Why it wasn't mentioned in Prospero Burns I don't know though.

Russ is a brawler, if Magnus, the new and improved version with added Daemony goodness don't forget, went into the fight expecting anything less, then fool him.

Yeah I found that odd as well, I dont know why they skipped that part, I kept looking through the book in case I had somehow missed it, but nope its not there
But then the whole book I didn't find very good to be honest so I'm not suprised

Well Magnus did expect it, hence why he had him on the ropes
Russ just got a really, really, really lucky shot in
In fact if Magnus hadn't opened his world up so they could attack, I don't doubt for a minute the Thousand Sons would have won
Even being taken by complete suprise they caused alot of damage to them

this topic has completely changed from emperor messed up to Russ vs Magnus, its ok though, because i like ripping on russ

Am I the only one who feels bad for Lorgar?

Nope, what happened to him and Magnus, and to Kurze were travesties. It doesn't help though that Demski-Brown made him into a little girl.

iproxtaco wrote:Nope, what happened to him and Magnus, and to Kurze were travesties. It doesn't help though that Demski-Brown made him into a little girl.

And I am on the side that says, BURN HERETICS!

They pretty much bought it all on themselves.

Maybe, just maybe a little a little for Conrad ... but only a tiny bit.

I am normally with Pilau rice, except when it comes to space wolves, always on the opposite side of the arguement as them, plus i think thousand sons look sweet

Pilau Rice wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Nope, what happened to him and Magnus, and to Kurze were travesties. It doesn't help though that Demski-Brown made him into a little girl.

And I am on the side that says, BURN HERETICS!

They pretty much bought it all on themselves.

Maybe, just maybe a little a little for Conrad ... but only a tiny bit.

Good job you did burning those Heretics by the way.

Burning hasn't officially commenced yet

I think the traitor primarchs did the right thing, they are so much cooler on the side of Chaos then they were under the Emperors wing.

Ashryu wrote:No way, then you woud have them dressing slutty and sneaking out late at night to jump on khornes motorcycle while the emperor runs down the porch stairs with a shotgun

but think about it! The hersey would never happen because Khorne would be scared of the womens scorn of a primarch and they would bitch and moan and then we would have no war, except both sides completely ignore each other.

But in relatity, The Emperor did fail. but think about it. How hard is it to parent 20 kids?

Yeah, John and Kate cant even deal with 8, a single parent with 20 super powerful super geniuses...thats tough

Asuron wrote:
He did but I don't think we ever found that out did we? Or was there something in Prospero Burns I missed, I'm not sure the book wasn't nearly as engaging as A Thousand Sons was
Besides if he did, it would be similar to how Wyrmdrake was a spy of the wolves as well
Its a bit hypocritical of Russ isnt it
But then again his whole stance on psykers was hypocritical

Would it have killed Russ to have made an announcement when he was on Prospero before he started destroying things?
Bleh the whole thing left a sour taste in my mouth honestly, the sheer hypocrisy of the Wolves was just astonishing
Right down to the cheap, incredibly lucky shot against Magnus during their duel, he had Russ on the ropes, the stupidity on the Wolves end just left a bad taste

Does it still count as hypocrisy when it's driven by abject stupidity? Space Wolves were just really really really really really really really really really really really really dumb. "They is not psychic powerz we is children of the storm lulz!"

They recruited superstitious barbarians, and didn't do anything to educate them further. No indoctrination, no mind-wipes, nothing. The Rout is no different from those guys in the beginning of the book slaughtering women and children "cuz they may haz the magicks in them!" They are just bigger and have better equipment.

And yes, it left a bad taste, but Wyrmdrake's final fate did cleanse the palate a bit. Brought face to face with his own stupidity/hypocrisy and then completely annihilated down to the soul level. Aah, justice.

Asherian Command wrote:
But in relatity, The Emperor did fail. but think about it. How hard is it to parent 20 kids?

20 kids? Pretty hard when they're all taken away from you before they're born. He was trying to parent 20 adults while ruling a galactic empire and trying to break into the Webway. The man had a lot on his mind.

we da humies that luk lik wulvz, we da bestes at choppin and da usin a shoota's-Leman Russ

Ashryu wrote:No way, then you woud have them dressing slutty

Didn't Fulgrim already do this?

Omegus wrote:
Does it still count as hypocrisy when it's driven by abject stupidity? Space Wolves were just really really really really really really really really really really really really dumb. "They is not psychic powerz we is children of the storm lulz!"

They recruited superstitious barbarians, and didn't do anything to educate them further. No indoctrination, no mind-wipes, nothing. The Rout is no different from those guys in the beginning of the book slaughtering women and children "cuz they may haz the magicks in them!" They are just bigger and have better equipment.

To be fair, I didn't see a single wolf get possessed (actually I think there was that one guy but that shouldn't count) but by the end there were tons of TSs succumbing to the flesh change.


Also I was under the impression the thing with Horus changing the orders wasn't mentioned because they retconed it out and Russ was acting solely on the Emperors orders.

I'm not a warp worshiping cultist but I'm just saying the Horus had some good ideas as well.

Obviously I'm not down with enslaving humanity to the dark gods of the warp. Not all of them. But at least Horus got the invasions landing on time.

jonolikespie wrote:

Omegus wrote:
Does it still count as hypocrisy when it's driven by abject stupidity? Space Wolves were just really really really really really really really really really really really really dumb. "They is not psychic powerz we is children of the storm lulz!"

They recruited superstitious barbarians, and didn't do anything to educate them further. No indoctrination, no mind-wipes, nothing. The Rout is no different from those guys in the beginning of the book slaughtering women and children "cuz they may haz the magicks in them!" They are just bigger and have better equipment.

To be fair, I didn't see a single wolf get possessed (actually I think there was that one guy but that shouldn't count) but by the end there were tons of TSs succumbing to the flesh change.


Also I was under the impression the thing with Horus changing the orders wasn't mentioned because they retconed it out and Russ was acting solely on the Emperors orders.

Wasn't there those Wulfen things? They unleashed them towards the end and caught the TS by suprise
Plus the flesh change only happened because Tzeentch decided to call in the deal, meaning that using psychic powers during that point, which the Wolves bloody pushed them to, led to the inevitable mutation

As for the Russ thing, its really weird since in the earlier HH books Horus makes note of knowing where Russ is and hints at changing his mind on the matter with regards to Magnus
Yet we never see this converation in PB

Wulfen is a genetic thing though isn't it, not psychic ?

jonolikespie wrote:Wulfen is a genetic thing though isn't it, not psychic ?

I was under the impression the mutations were as well and that the only reason they happened again was because Tzeentch called in the deal
That using psychic powers only sped it up

Horus: Dad... um I have this special friend. And uh... this special gives me this tingly feeling in the cod piece...

Big E: Hahaha, oh that's perfectly natural,son. What's her name?

Horus: ....Um, Mike.

Big E: ....Get the feth out of my house!

Both The Flesh Change and The Mark of The Wulfen are genetic faults in the geneseed of the respective Legions, meaning that The Space Wolves persecuting The Thousand Sons in part due to seeing The Flesh Change is damn hypocritical.

Oh, thats because space wolves=losers