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 kestril wrote:
But that's what Ailaros said--4 infantry squads in 2 platoons.

Sure, the tanks are scary, but a worthy adversary would just clean up the four ten-man guards squads, the two Heavy Weapons teams and two five-man PCS, leaving you with nothing to score with. Heck, I've had that many guardsmen wiped out in a single turn when I was unlucky. If scouring or Big guns is rolled, Then you've got a little more leeway, but you'll have to rely on slow tanks, or one flier to score/contest an objective.


Also the lack of special weapons is concerning, and what special weapons there are can be taken out in one volley with the right weapon. The only thing I see as really durable is the vendetta (because it's a 'detta). But this is a thread about conscripts, not a list, so I suppose we should get back on topic.

Um, just wondering, how much to you play guard? A weapons team is three mortars, not two. As well, There are three infantry squads per platoon, reading can help..

I Meant squads. Right idea, wrong word. Regardless, I don't think it's that hard to infer.

And yeah I missed the commissar squads(derp), but the point remains, if you blob up those squads for the cool commissar buff, the enemy can focus its fire even more effectively, and since only one squad can only hold one objective at a time, you'll really only have two solid units to hold objectives.

From the way iv read Send in the Next Wave. You kill the conscript squad at the beginning of your turn, then bring them in next turn. I guess that would make smaller squads more useful if you can get them completely wiped out they come in next turn but it seems you have to spend a turn to kill them then get them back.

Funk, I think you might be right. Remove the unit at the start of turn X, and you can't bring them back until X+1.

Paying the extra points for Conscripts that you have to kill and then slog from your board edge next turn doesn't seem that great. I'd rather just have more guardsmen, or more heavy weapons or tanks or allies or anything else.

Chenkov may still be a solid buy, however, especially hiding behind/between a couple of blobs where you can't see him to shoot him, and he makes a lot of stuff around him stubborn.

 Omegus wrote:
Paying the extra points for Conscripts that you have to kill and then slog from your board edge next turn doesn't seem that great. I'd rather just have more guardsmen, or more heavy weapons or tanks or allies or anything else.

Chenkov may still be a solid buy, however, especially hiding behind/between a couple of blobs where you can't see him to shoot him, and he makes a lot of stuff around him stubborn.

I agree, he can almost replace commissars that way.

Funk3140 wrote:
From the way iv read Send in the Next Wave. You kill the conscript squad at the beginning of your turn, then bring them in next turn. I guess that would make smaller squads more useful if you can get them completely wiped out they come in next turn but it seems you have to spend a turn to kill them then get them back.

The big strength is that you don't have to kill them. A big trick I found to using them well was making the enemy kill them for you. It says they show up your next turn. Know that turn that follows after your enemy's shooting/assault phase? They come back then. If he assaulted them, they'll literally pop right back up the moment after they died.

It's what Ailaros was talking about when you leave a guy or two all the way back to your board edge, so that when they run, they're guaranteed to run off the board and be destroyed.

Also, that 1,000pt guard list would not fill me with confidence. Needs more autocannons/lascannons

As an extra aside, that Chenkov stubborn bubble can come in handy, which is surprising. Combined with a couple of regimental standards, you've got a commissar in every unit within the 12" bubbles. If you can hide the command units that provide the buffs, every unit has a stubborn LD reroll, and doesn't have to kill a sarge in the process. I would not count on this for a battle plan, as that's a lot riding on 2-3 5 man squads to not die, but definitely a trick I'd keep up my sleeve if I saw a MC I wanted to tarpit coming towards my line or something.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

The big strength is that you don't have to kill them. A big trick I found to using them well was making the enemy kill them for you. It says they show up your next turn. Know that turn that follows after your enemy's shooting/assault phase? They come back then. If he assaulted them, they'll literally pop right back up the moment after they died.

"A unit with this special rule can, at the start of the player's turn, be removed from play as casualties if the controlling player wishes, counting as destroyed"

So does this mean you can kill them at the beginning of your opponents turn? The way I interpreted it was you must wait till the beginning of your turn to kill them, then you get them next turn, unless they were completely destroyed. Which case they come on right away.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
It's what Ailaros was talking about when you leave a guy or two all the way back to your board edge, so that when they run, they're guaranteed to run off the board and be destroyed.

That's an interesting tactic, good to know.

Funk3140 wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

The big strength is that you don't have to kill them. A big trick I found to using them well was making the enemy kill them for you. It says they show up your next turn. Know that turn that follows after your enemy's shooting/assault phase? They come back then. If he assaulted them, they'll literally pop right back up the moment after they died.

"A unit with this special rule can, at the start of the player's turn, be removed from play as casualties if the controlling player wishes, counting as destroyed"

So does this mean you can kill them at the beginning of your opponents turn? The way I interpreted it was you must wait till the beginning of your turn to kill them, then you get them next turn, unless they were completely destroyed. Which case they come on right away.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
It's what Ailaros was talking about when you leave a guy or two all the way back to your board edge, so that when they run, they're guaranteed to run off the board and be destroyed.

That's an interesting tactic, good to know.

I wish, I meant that if the enemy kills them or makes them run, awesome, you just got another full strength unit of them at the start of your next turn.

So if the turn order goes

You turn 1, conscripts move up
His turn 1, shoots at conscripts, they run off board
Your turn 2, Send in the next wave activates, and you have a new unit of conscripts on your board edge.

That's what I meant by getting a fresh unit from your opponent's turn.

To expand on this, you can exploit this "free wave", by doing things like suicidally charging some conscripts into a close combat blender. You know they'll lose combat, but maybe they'll drag a guy or two down with them, which is far better than nothing. They'll then either be swept at the end of your assault (removing them from play) get killed to a man (removing them from play) or by some miracle, they hold, tie up your opponent for a whole turn, and THEN die horribly at the end of your opponent's assault phase (removing them from play just in time for your next turn.) You could also move said conscript unit in between the unit you don't want assaulted (say a tank) and the close combat blender. Now your opponent must forcibly remove the conscripts to get to your tank. By being forced to kill the conscripts, you buy time for your important units to live, "waste" enemy firepower on a unit that will just come back again, and might even stop an assault unit from getting where it needs to go. You also get a round of lasgun shots into the assaulting unit, which might ding a guy or two off.

The key thing I've learned is to treat what damage they do as a bonus. Their main job is to score on objectives, deny ground/movement, screen units, and provide cover saves for important things. If you're relying on them to kill things, things are going very wrong.

MrMoustaffa wrote:The key thing I've learned is to treat what damage they do as a bonus.

Or, as Alec Guiness once said, "strike me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine".

And that's what's weird about conscripts. I mean, take a pause and really think about it for a moment.

What other unit in the game gets more powerful every time your opponent kills it?

It's really counter-intuitive, which is what is so great about them. Either your opponent completely ignores them, and you get dozens of invincible scoring models, or your opponent attacks them, which, rather than killing them, just causes them to teleport somewhere and regenerate back up to full strength. Anyone who can't figure out a use for this is lacking creativity.

How do you leave a guy behind without breaking coherency? Having a conga-line of conscripts all the way to your deployment zone seems cluttered and tedious.

Well, in most situations they wont make it more than halfway up the board, so it won't take a massive conga line.

And if you really needed to get past them, you can just move the conga line up a bit, or kill them yourself if you realize its neccessary.

Yeah, if you put one guy 2" from the back of the board, it only takes 4 guys for one to be at the edge of your deployment zone. This only increases to 9 to get mid-field, which, as mentioned, they likely won't get. In a squad of 30+ conscripts, this isn't much of a sacrifice, and that few guys isn't very much clutter in a DZ.

With the advent of the lowering of the cover save in the 6th, I sprayed up 50 guardsmen and started painting. Ailaros is right, they have so many annoying uses.

Ailaros is right about them hugging the objectives in your deployment. Conscripts work alot like grots, except they keep coming back. They're there to fall on objectives and stay there.

My only nagging question is if they count as Victory Points each time they are 'counted as' destroyed.

If that is the case, you better not fight to a tie...

 Ailaros wrote:
Yeah, if you put one guy 2" from the back of the board, it only takes 4 guys for one to be at the edge of your deployment zone. This only increases to 9 to get mid-field, which, as mentioned, they likely won't get. In a squad of 30+ conscripts, this isn't much of a sacrifice, and that few guys isn't very much clutter in a DZ.

That is very clever. If I use SITNW I'll have to try it.

Why would anybody wipe out a squad of conscripts? Gun for the lord commissar first. After he dies only do 25% to conscripts to force a morale test, then leave them alone. They become very inefficient if the IG player has to kill his own squad with send in the next wave on his own turn. For the most part they should be ignored.

The only time I really find conscripts dangerous is when IG goes 2nd in an objective based game. Then you can pretty much count on IG placing an objective 6" from their board edge which becomes almost impossible for an opponent to claim. The problem I have is still the cost of 205 points to have a unit of send in the next wave conscripts, and the objective point can still be contested (Chencok, conscripts, and send in the next wave) Thawn & 4 allied GK termies only costs 70 points more, and Thawn is a much more mobile scoring unit that does a job regular IG infantry doesn't do well.. It's also not like a unit of conscripts would be able to kick chaos spawn or a mycenic pod off an objective when the recycle and atttempt to reclaim an objective on turn 5. I can see how conscripts can be effective, but I can also see it being really easy to counter conscripts .by a skilled opponent.

All of that being said I have been tempted to use conscripts with my deamons. The #1 reason I don't is I actually want to go 2nd in most games, and fear of recycled conscripts coming from reserve to take an objective on the bottom of turn 5 + the massive loss of bodies + AC=opponent is less afraid of my alpha strike capabilities and motivated to go 2nd.

schadenfreude wrote:Gun for the lord commissar first.

Sure, but taking a lord commissar in the first place rather defeats the point of bringing SiTNW conscripts. Either the guard player should be taking conscripts with the commissar, or conscripts with SiTNW, but never both at the same time.

schadenfreude wrote:Thawn & 4 allied GK termies only costs 70 points more, and Thawn is a much more mobile scoring unit

Yes, but conscripts are a permanent scoring unit. When 5 termies die, they're dead. When conscripts die, they, wait, what are we talking about, they don't die, they just refresh the models they lost.

Furthermore, while GK termies are much more mobile for taking objectives on the other side of the board, the conscripts are also pretty mobile for taking ones on your side of the board. When they are removed, voluntarily or otherwise, they can deploy anywhere on your board edge. That means that they can "teleport" up to 72" away. Sounds pretty mobile to me.

KplKeegan wrote:My only nagging question is if they count as Victory Points each time they are 'counted as' destroyed.

It does, and that's a real risk.

Furthermore, I've noticed that SiTNW conscripts stack on themselves. One squad of 20 is annoying, while TWO squads of 20 is game-breakingly awful, and I can only imagine what facing off against three squads of respawning conscripts would look like. The only problem, of course, is that they do eat up the points, and they have a HUGE carrier cost (an entire infantry platoon), which means that they'll eat up points very quickly at lower levels. This makes it so that when you DO come across purge games, it's going to be that much worse for you.

Well, I've got a 2k single force org tourney coming up Sunday, and I'm planning on using 2 squads of 20 sitnw conscripts to see how they do. Still unsure on the rest of the list, but I'm waffling between 3 Executioners, 5 lascannon HWS's with lascannons in the command and line squads as well, or looking into artillery. I know that I'll ned killing power to make up for the nonexistent firepower of the conscripts, so it's going to come down to what units can deal the most damage, and live long enough to remain a threat like the conscripts.


any ideas? I'm thinking about going 100% Infantry with no vehicles whatsoever, or just bring some executioners

Hmmm, thinking about that makes me think "can you re-roll successful morale checks if you bring a reg standard and you want to fail the conscripts?"

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Well, I've got a 2k single force org tourney coming up Sunday, and I'm planning on using 2 squads of 20 sitnw conscripts to see how they do. Still unsure on the rest of the list, but I'm waffling between 3 Executioners, 5 lascannon HWS's with lascannons in the command and line squads as well, or looking into artillery. I know that I'll ned killing power to make up for the nonexistent firepower of the conscripts, so it's going to come down to what units can deal the most damage, and live long enough to remain a threat like the conscripts.


any ideas? I'm thinking about going 100% Infantry with no vehicles whatsoever, or just bring some executioners

I think you should have at least a couple russes just in case, but good luck!

Blaggard wrote:
Hmmm, thinking about that makes me think "can you re-roll successful morale checks if you bring a reg standard and you want to fail the conscripts?"

The way its worded in the book (any friendly units within 12" reroll failed Morale and Pinning checks) implies that you must reroll.

This has screwed me over several times, to the point where when my opponents fight me, they assume every squad will pass morale. I've had conscripts roll insane heroism far more often than should be possible.

To fix this, keep them away from your standards if at all possible. it can be tricky at times, but its the only real solution besides dont buy regimental standards.

ah bugger, didn't see the word failed. I was thinking "damn, I passed, let's just re-roll this and see if I fail".

MrMoustaffa wrote:To fix this, keep them away from your standards if at all possible. it can be tricky at times, but its the only real solution besides dont buy regimental standards.

Which I might, very reluctantly, consider. What is more important, keeping the other 4 infantry squads on the table, or making sure the conscripts break and run?

 Ailaros wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Gun for the lord commissar first.

Sure, but taking a lord commissar in the first place rather defeats the point of bringing SiTNW conscripts. Either the guard player should be taking conscripts with the commissar, or conscripts with SiTNW, but never both at the same time.

schadenfreude wrote:Thawn & 4 allied GK termies only costs 70 points more, and Thawn is a much more mobile scoring unit

Yes, but conscripts are a permanent scoring unit. When 5 termies die, they're dead. When conscripts die, they, wait, what are we talking about, they don't die, they just refresh the models they lost.

Furthermore, while GK termies are much more mobile for taking objectives on the other side of the board, the conscripts are also pretty mobile for taking ones on your side of the board. When they are removed, voluntarily or otherwise, they can deploy anywhere on your board edge. That means that they can "teleport" up to 72" away. Sounds pretty mobile to me.

KplKeegan wrote:My only nagging question is if they count as Victory Points each time they are 'counted as' destroyed.

It does, and that's a real risk.

Furthermore, I've noticed that SiTNW conscripts stack on themselves. One squad of 20 is annoying, while TWO squads of 20 is game-breakingly awful, and I can only imagine what facing off against three squads of respawning conscripts would look like. The only problem, of course, is that they do eat up the points, and they have a HUGE carrier cost (an entire infantry platoon), which means that they'll eat up points very quickly at lower levels. This makes it so that when you DO come across purge games, it's going to be that much worse for you.

Thawn is a permanent scoring unit. No matter how many times he dies he can get back up on a 4+ at the start of your turn. The 160 points of gk termies that comes with him isn't recyclable, but it's just as easy to write off as chenkof + the cost of sitnw. If the goal is to go 2nd in objective based games thawn + a unit of sitnw can have some real potential, but the plan is very obvious. It does sound better to me than running multiple sitnw units.

Also to add in what you said about kp, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Kp is only 1/6 games.

One little problem though, Thawn isn't in the IG codex. And not everyone wants to use allies.

Also, he's only got a 50% chance of getting back up, and he stands back up where he died from correct (never faced him, but he sounds like Yarrick)? If so, he's probably just going to get messed up by whatever killed him the first time. If we're comparing him against SITNW conscripts, this is a big deal, as the conscripts come back at full strength, 100% of the time, anywhere along your board edge. I don't have to roll a die to see if the conscripts come back, they just do. That'd be the biggest dealbreaker for me in a choice between the two.

Also, I wouldn't just write off killpoints. Just because it's only a 1/6 chance, doesn't mean it won't happen. I mean, seizing the initiative is only a 1/6, and it can still happen and totally turn a game on its head. Playing with SITNW conscripts is going to be rough on killpoints, because you essentially have given yourself a 130-200pt handicap. You'll have to turtle, hide small units, and play at your best, because otherwise you're in for a rough time.

It's a bigger handicap than that. If you're going with Ailaros' suggested two units of 20, that's 200 points you've spent (Chenkov + 2 SitNW) before you've bought a single conscript. Add 150 for the conscripts themselves, and you've just spent a solid chunk of points.

Chenkov's send in the next wave is pretty cool, enough conscripts will kill anything. Anything I say! Not vehicles... But anything! Anything but vehicles...

 Color Sgt. Kell wrote:
Chenkov's send in the next wave is pretty cool, enough conscripts will kill anything. Anything I say! Not vehicles... But anything! Anything but vehicles...

Or T7+

And yeah, the price issue when (not if, you WILL roll it eventually) killpoints is a big deal. Right now I'm working on my tourney list that I'll be trying them in, and while 40 endlessly respawning guardsmen is funny and all, I find myself wondering if they're really worth that many points.

I'll definitely take bare minimum 1 squad though. The question is whether 2 groups of them is worth it at 2k pts. It pulls a lot of points a person could be spending on tanks or heavy weapons instead.

Well, and I'd note that there are things that do mollify the purge risk somewhat.

For one, if you're bringing a regimental standard, then a single independent character will fix the conscripts. A conscript mob is a great place for a priest or a primaris psyker to hide. You don't need to worry about SiTNW killing them off, because the conscripts aren't going to be using the ability this game.

For two, as mentioned, conscripts DO kill stuff. They only need one KP to make themselves KP neutral.

Furthermore, if we're talking about one unit of conscripts, it's ONE KP that you're giving away. Likely your opponent is going to be picking them up from PCSs, CCS, or HWSs long before they claim their first one from conscripts.

150 points for two squads is a heavy burden for a literally worthless ability on purge missions, but it's not an insurmountable one.

Plus, there's still the chance that you get to use the ability. Conscripts have a low threat level, and are likely to be ignored until late in the game as your opponent is likely to focus on killier stuff first, assuming that even with an injured unit they'd be able to still kill the conscripts.

If this is the case, and you lose the conscripts on, say, turn 4 or 5, then it may well still be worth it to bring them back if there's something that's really hurt hanging out in your deployment zone. I mean, if you've got mephiston with one remaining wound in your DZ, it would be better to bring the mob of conscripts back and look to ding the last wound off. Not only would the conscripts get a KP, but they'd also deny whatever mephiston was going to claim the next turn.