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Just because Lucky Charms are delicious doesn't mean kids should be eating them every morning for their "healthy breakfast".

I mean, unless we want more kids to have diabetes.

Plenty of parents are just too lazy or uninformed to care, I am terrified at times at the grocery store when I see what some of these parents are feeding their children.

It is their choice, but unless the kids are looking into what is healthy for them (which they won't) they need someone to make the decision for them. As an adult, you should obviously be in charge of what you should be eating to stay healthy, but its not like that is of much concern to a lot of 'Mericans.

daedalus-templarius wrote:Plenty of parents are just too lazy or uninformed to care, I am terrified at times at the grocery store when I see what some of these parents are feeding their children.

If you think the issue is as simple as all parents being lazy you haven't looked enough into the subject. There is a great deal of socio-economic factors at play when it comes to food options, not to mention politics.

Albatross wrote:Sometimes I think you people are all fething crazy.

I mean, seriously. Major corporations have got you literally eating out of the palms of their hands. Food producers spend billions targeting young kids with propaganda in order to convince them that they want these insanely unhealthy foods. The government tries to mitigate this by ensuring that the foods they sell maintain a bare minimum level of healthiness, and there are people who will get up in arms, decrying 'big brother'-style government, defending the multi-million dollar food giants.

Do you think these people give a gak about you, or something? They just want your money, and they will do anything to get it.

You people are fething crazy.

This, exactly. Thank you for summing it up.

nectarprime wrote:

Albatross wrote:Sometimes I think you people are all fething crazy.

I mean, seriously. Major corporations have got you literally eating out of the palms of their hands. Food producers spend billions targeting young kids with propaganda in order to convince them that they want these insanely unhealthy foods. The government tries to mitigate this by ensuring that the foods they sell maintain a bare minimum level of healthiness, and there are people who will get up in arms, decrying 'big brother'-style government, defending the multi-million dollar food giants.

Do you think these people give a gak about you, or something? They just want your money, and they will do anything to get it.

You people are fething crazy.

This, exactly. Thank you for summing it up.

Companies can't force me to eat it. Big Mamma can.
Trying to see where the Founding Fathers had this in mind.

Ahtman wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:Plenty of parents are just too lazy or uninformed to care, I am terrified at times at the grocery store when I see what some of these parents are feeding their children.

If you think the issue is as simple as all parents being lazy you haven't looked enough into the subject. There is a great deal of socio-economic factors at play when it comes to food options, not to mention politics.

I'm not saying that's the only thing, but it is a part of the problem.

Another problem is that most healthy food options are more expensive, and garbage is cheap. A tiny box of like, Kashi Whole Wheat vs a giant box of Lucky Charms is pretty silly.

Frazzled wrote:
Companies can't force me to eat it. Big Mamma can.
Trying to see where the Founding Fathers had this in mind.

The founding fathers likely had their wives or slaves making them all of their meals, and we didn't have Chocolate Frosted Sugar Balls for breakfast back then.

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Ahtman wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:Plenty of parents are just too lazy or uninformed to care, I am terrified at times at the grocery store when I see what some of these parents are feeding their children.

If you think the issue is as simple as all parents being lazy you haven't looked enough into the subject. There is a great deal of socio-economic factors at play when it comes to food options, not to mention politics.

I'm not saying that's the only thing, but it is a part of the problem.

Another problem is that most healthy food options are more expensive, and garbage is cheap. A tiny box of like, Kashi Whole Wheat vs a giant box of Lucky Charms is pretty silly.

Frazzled wrote:
Companies can't force me to eat it. Big Mamma can.
Trying to see where the Founding Fathers had this in mind.

The founding fathers likely had their wives or slaves making them all of their meals, and we didn't have Chocolate Frosted Sugar Balls for breakfast back then.

Not sure where you're seing this. We have 3 month of supplies at the Houston house for hurricane season (actualy one month but I figure on guest families). WE have enough rice and dried beans to kill a mule, and that was cheaper than dirt.

The simple fact of the matter is if you want Big Brother deciding what's good for you then you are giving up your basic freedom to choose.

A lot of people get freedom confused with lack of responsibility. Being free doesn't mean you get to do anything you want and then not suffer the consequences of your choices.

Sounds like some people want a Nanny more than they want to be free. No thanks.

While I agree with you that rice and dried beans are very cheap, that is not necessarily what I am referring to.

I should probably buy some in the event of disaster myself, however I doubt a family would want to eat that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for very many days.

daedalus-templarius wrote:While I agree with you that rice and dried beans are very cheap, that is not necessarily what I am referring to.

I should probably buy some in the event of disaster myself, however I doubt a family would want to eat that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for very many days.

It would be healthier. Under your ideal the family will be eating that, because its good for them. Aunt Samantha knows best...or else.

Yeah, I don't know.

I don't think the government is any more or less evil than the Big Food Corporations. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to tuck into this huge bowl of Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs so I can get diabeetus for the government to pay for in the future.

Frazzled wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:While I agree with you that rice and dried beans are very cheap, that is not necessarily what I am referring to.

I should probably buy some in the event of disaster myself, however I doubt a family would want to eat that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for very many days.

It would be healthier. Under your ideal the family will be eating that, because its good for them. Aunt Samantha knows best...or else.

Not what I said.

Would I prefer most food wasn't massively processed and filled with garbage/preservatives/ingredients that you can't understand whilst reading the box? Yes.

I try not to eat things that have ingredients I don't understand on them; that's obviously not for everyone, but something like that might be a good start.

Lucky Charms

Whole Grain Oats (includes the Oat Bran)Marshmallow Bits (Sugar, Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup, Dextrose, Gelatin, Calcium Carbonate, Artificial Flavor, Yellow 5 & 6, Red 40, Blue 1, Methylcellulose, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate)Sugar, Corn Syrup, Corn Starch, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Color Added, Trisodium Phosphate, Zinc and Iron (Mineral Nutrients)Vitamin C (Sodium Ascorbate)A B Vitamin (Niacinamide)Artificial Flavor, Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine Hydrochloride)Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin)Vitamin B1 (Thiamin Mononitrate)Vitamin A (Palmitate)A B Vitamin (Folic Acid)Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, Wheat Starch, Vitamin E (Mixed Tocopherols) Added to Preserve Freshness.

Bleh.

biccat wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:If the citizenry will not regulate themselves effectively, then, for their own good and more to the point, the good of society's future generations, actions should be taken by the state to ensure the good of the nation.

Who is going to regulate the citizenry effectively?

MeanGreenStompa wrote:So, grow up or we'll start parenting you.

Stronger state = stronger nation.

See, this is what I was saying about people preferring tyranny to freedom. Modern disagreement seems to be about who the tyrant should be.

I hear a lot of people in the US complaining about 'big gov'munt' and complaining about paying taxes.

Here's the thing, you either have an effective government, well funded, or you stop living in a first world nation. Thousands of tiny community based governance models across this continent sized nation will result in it's fracturing and continued decline.

The United States will only remain a power whilst it is United. It can only defend your individualism if it is allowed to be powerful.

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:While I agree with you that rice and dried beans are very cheap, that is not necessarily what I am referring to.

I should probably buy some in the event of disaster myself, however I doubt a family would want to eat that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for very many days.

It would be healthier. Under your ideal the family will be eating that, because its good for them. Aunt Samantha knows best...or else.

Not what I said.

Would I prefer most food wasn't massively processed and filled with garbage/preservatives/ingredients that you can't understand whilst reading the box? Yes.

I try not to eat things that have ingredients I don't understand on them; that's obviously not for everyone, but something like that might be a good start.

Lucky Charms

Whole Grain Oats (includes the Oat Bran)Marshmallow Bits (Sugar, Modified Corn Starch, Corn Syrup, Dextrose, Gelatin, Calcium Carbonate, Artificial Flavor, Yellow 5 & 6, Red 40, Blue 1, Methylcellulose, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate)Sugar, Corn Syrup, Corn Starch, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Color Added, Trisodium Phosphate, Zinc and Iron (Mineral Nutrients)Vitamin C (Sodium Ascorbate)A B Vitamin (Niacinamide)Artificial Flavor, Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine Hydrochloride)Vitamin B2 (Riboflavin)Vitamin B1 (Thiamin Mononitrate)Vitamin A (Palmitate)A B Vitamin (Folic Acid)Vitamin B12, Vitamin D, Wheat Starch, Vitamin E (Mixed Tocopherols) Added to Preserve Freshness.

Bleh.

And you have the option of not eating it. Under Pappy Obama you don't have the option. You'll get told what options you can have.
Stalin would be proud.

I don't think they are going to mandate a diet of rice and beans, Frazz.

Also, I would prefer children not be eating that stuff either; mine wouldn't obviously, but I don't want other kids gettin' the diabeetus either.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Here's the thing, you either have an effective government, well funded, or you stop living in a first world nation. Thousands of tiny community based governance models across this continent sized nation will result in it's fracturing and continued decline.

The United States will only remain a power whilst it is United. It can only defend your individualism if it is allowed to be powerful.

Nonsense. We've gotten along with a bloated, incompetent government for 200 years and stride the world like a Colossus. Germany shifted to lower government spending and its economy is doing well. meanwhile Greece is in the crapper. Show me a lot of government and I'll show you crappy government.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus-templarius wrote:I don't think they are going to mandate a diet of rice and beans, Frazz.

Also, I would prefer children not be eating that stuff either; mine wouldn't obviously, but I don't want other kids gettin' the diabeetus either.

How do you know?
Or more correctly how do you know what diet herr Direcktor will have instore for us, once the lobbyists have fun? Once you give up your freedom, you give it up forever.

Yea, arguing with you is basically just like arguing with my dad. We never agree on anything, and its just a lot of wasted time.

Frazzled wrote:
How do you know?
Or more correctly how do you know what diet herr Direcktor will have instore for us, once the lobbyists have fun? Once you give up your freedom, you give it up forever.

A totally reasonable assumption. Everyone is out to get you and take away your freedom.

Nonsense. We've gotten along with a bloated, incompetent government for 200 years and stride the world like a Colossus. Germany shifted to lower government spending and its economy is doing well. meanwhile Greece is in the crapper. Show me a lot of government and I'll show you crappy government.

Nothing to do with the rest of the world being devastated after 2 world wars and our infrastructure was strengthened? I'll admit, this did make me laugh a bit.

Frazzled wrote:
And you have the option of not eating it. Under Pappy Obama you don't have the option. You'll get told what options you can have.
Stalin would be proud.

Should we abolish the laws on child abuse then?

Because someone feeding their child gak nonstop is abuse. It should be the parent's choice on how heavily they hit their children, given their freedom to parent, shouldn't it?

Consider this.




Whilst extreme, this is occurring on a lesser scale throughout the nation. The kids are getting fatter and their long term health is being directly affected.

Should parents be allowed to buy cigarettes for their children? Alcohol?

Whilst the Darwinian in me is cruelly smiling about the stupid killing their own off, I don't think we can shirk our responsibility to our society's children.

I don't think I can make it through this video.

People who are so paranoid about "big government" make me laugh.

Frazzled wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Here's the thing, you either have an effective government, well funded, or you stop living in a first world nation. Thousands of tiny community based governance models across this continent sized nation will result in it's fracturing and continued decline.

The United States will only remain a power whilst it is United. It can only defend your individualism if it is allowed to be powerful.

Nonsense. We've gotten along with a bloated, incompetent government for 200 years and stride the world like a Colossus. Germany shifted to lower government spending and its economy is doing well. meanwhile Greece is in the crapper. Show me a lot of government and I'll show you crappy government.

So, you've just said a big government has run the nation for 200 years and that's seen your nation become a super power and you actually believe that it was despite your form of government, not because or partially because of it?

hmmm...

nectarprime wrote:People who are so paranoid about "big government" make me laugh.

People who are paranoid about "big corporations" make me laugh.

Perhaps we have something in common.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:So, you've just said a big government has run the nation for 200 years and that's seen your nation become a super power and you actually believe that it was despite your form of government, not because or partially because of it?

I think he meant "without". The massive government bloat is pretty recent to the last 15-20 years.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:The United States will only remain a power whilst it is United. It can only defend your individualism if it is allowed to be powerful.

We were warned about this:

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." - Thomas Jefferson


I'm also reminded of another nation that rose to greatness:

It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion. -Joseph Goebbels

daedalus-templarius wrote:Yea, arguing with you is basically just like arguing with my dad. We never agree on anything, and its just a lot of wasted time.

Excellent. Its only when you're older will you realize just how right your dad was.

biccat wrote:

nectarprime wrote:People who are so paranoid about "big government" make me laugh.

People who are paranoid about "big corporations" make me laugh.

So you think Walmart is run by a bunch of good guys who care about their employees, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:Yea, arguing with you is basically just like arguing with my dad. We never agree on anything, and its just a lot of wasted time.

Excellent. Its only when you're older will you realize just how right your dad was.

Actually I just realized he was old and out of touch :/

True story.

Frazzled wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:Yea, arguing with you is basically just like arguing with my dad. We never agree on anything, and its just a lot of wasted time.

Excellent. Its only when you're older will you realize just how right your dad was.

No, I'm almost as old as those guys in your video. I don't think I'll ever realize how right he is on his massive paranoia about everything. Its ok to be massively paranoid about the gubment stealing everything, but those corporations... they are certainly looking out for your best interests.

Actually I just realized he was old and out of touch :/

Sounds about right

nectarprime wrote:People who are so paranoid about "big government" make me laugh.

Thats funny, because people who think the government is "here to help," make me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Here's the thing, you either have an effective government, well funded, or you stop living in a first world nation. Thousands of tiny community based governance models across this continent sized nation will result in it's fracturing and continued decline.

The United States will only remain a power whilst it is United. It can only defend your individualism if it is allowed to be powerful.

Nonsense. We've gotten along with a bloated, incompetent government for 200 years and stride the world like a Colossus. Germany shifted to lower government spending and its economy is doing well. meanwhile Greece is in the crapper. Show me a lot of government and I'll show you crappy government.

So, you've just said a big government has run the nation for 200 years and that's seen your nation become a super power and you actually believe that it was despite your form of government, not because or partially because of it?

hmmm...

You forgot incompetent.

Frazzled wrote:

nectarprime wrote:People who are so paranoid about "big government" make me laugh.

Thats funny, because people who think the government is "here to help," make me.

Maybe corporations and the government just don't give a gak about any of us?

Everytime I see someone mention "the guv'ment takin' way mah free-dum", one of the kittens in my garden dies. Please think of the kittens.

Frazzled wrote:
And you have the option of not eating it. Under Pappy Obama you don't have the option. You'll get told what options you can have.
Stalin would be proud.

C'mon, you know darn well that this would have happened under Republican rule as well. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't already in the works under G.W. Just like the healthcare law all the conservatives are so worked up over incorporated most of the things they, themselves tried to push through back in the Clinton days.

A politician is a politician, all the branding does is give the nut-jobs on both sides a target for their ire and plausible deniability by both parties.
Dem: Don't look at me it was his fault.
Rep: Don't look at me it was his fault.
Big Business: Don't look at me, they're the ones that make the laws. [While stuffing money in both party's pockets].

We, as Americans are directly responsible for any shenanigans that our elected officials push on us. If more apathetic, barely literate wal-mart shoppers would get off of their collective arses and vote, we might have more government accountability and transparency. The problem is that we don't hold our elected officials to their word once they're elected.

agnosto wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
And you have the option of not eating it. Under Pappy Obama you don't have the option. You'll get told what options you can have.
Stalin would be proud.

C'mon, you know darn well that this would have happened under Republican rule as well. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't already in the works under G.W. Just like the healthcare law all the conservatives are so worked up over incorporated most of the things they, themselves tried to push through back in the Clinton days.

A politician is a politician, all the branding does is give the nut-jobs on both sides a target for their ire and plausible deniability by both parties.
Dem: Don't look at me it was his fault.
Rep: Don't look at me it was his fault.
Big Business: Don't look at me, they're the ones that make the laws. [While stuffing money in both party's pockets].

We, as Americans are directly responsible for any shenanigans that our elected officials push on us. If more apathetic, barely literate wal-mart shoppers would get off of their collective arses and vote, we might have more government accountability and transparency. The problem is that we don't hold our elected officials to their word once they're elected.

But it didn't. It occurred under Barack "I know whats good for you" Obama. Whether it could have under a Repbulican administration is irrelevant. Its all about government trying to gain more power.