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Seaward wrote:Possibly, possibly not. We don't know if the other primarchs were aware of the fact that Alpha Legion has two, to begin with.
It's stated somewhere (probably Legion?) that outside of the Alpha Legion, only the Emperor knew about Alpharius and Omegon--implying the other Primarchs did not.
It wouldn't be too crazy to say that some Alpha Legion companies/chapters fell to chaos over the past 10k years (eg, the Dawn of War guy), while others didn't.
On the other hand, I interpreted The Face of Treachery as 'Horus wants to keep Corax alive, knowing he'll go crazy' (which roughly speaking, happened) and then fall to chaos as well (which didn't).
Alpharius Omegan was contacted by the Cabal - a group of aliens - and was told that if the Emporer beat Horus then humanity would be doomed to spiral down to chaos over milenia. If horus won, humanity would destroy itself in decades and so chaos would be destroyed permenantly. So Alpharius took it upon himself to betray the Emporer for the good of the rest of the galaxy.
kestril wrote:The game is only as fun as the people I play it with.
"War is as natural to a man as maternity is to a woman."
DeadlySquirrel wrote:Alpharius Omegan was contacted by the Cabal - a group of aliens - and was told that if the Emporer beat Horus then humanity would be doomed to spiral down to chaos over milenia.
Yep, sounds about right.
DeadlySquirrel wrote:If horus won, humanity would destroy itself in decades and so chaos would be destroyed permenantly.
Everything seems to be in order here.
DeadlySquirrel wrote:So Alpharius took it upon himself to betray the Emporer for the good of the rest of the galaxy.
This is pure speculation and would be a very disappointing abandonment of everything that Legion established about Alpharius/Omegon's character. Legion ended with Alpharius seemingly going along with the Cabal, but nothing of his intentions or subsequent actions were revealed. The Alpha Legion's loyalties are still very much up in the air.
DeadlySquirrel wrote:So Alpharius took it upon himself to betray the Emporer for the good of the rest of the galaxy.
This is pure speculation and would be a very disappointing abandonment of everything that Legion established about Alpharius/Omegon's character. Legion ended with Alpharius seemingly going along with the Cabal, but nothing of his intentions or subsequent actions were revealed. The Alpha Legion's loyalties are still very much up in the air.
The Alpha Legion betrayed the Emperor to try to bring about the elimination of Chaos from the galaxy. The actions they took during the heresy were very much loyal to the Emperor's wishes even if they were taken against the Emperor himself. Now after the Heresy, they continue to fight the IoM by starting insurrections and killing people of the Imperium. The Emperor began the Great Crusade to reunite humanity and eliminate the worship of idols as gods. Now the IoM worships the Emperor as a god. The Alpha Legion continues to be loyal to the Emperor by fighting against the Imperium.
From the ending of Legion by Dan Abnett (which is supposedly canon) Alpharius and Omegon agree to join Horus for the good of the galaxy, sacrificing Humanity so that all other races could live.
However, they are always for the emperor, as the last sentence they made was in the book (i think), sabotaging other chaos factions in some cases, while making it look like they are chaos in front of chaos.
If you ask me, after the failed heresy, they should have rejoined the loyalists (or did they in secret...).
"By his Blood I am made.
By his Blood I am armored.
By his Blood shall I triumph."
- Catechism of Blood
"From the void we come -
darkness there, and nothing more"
- Carcharadons Astra
God what a great topic! Im a fan of Horus Heresy books and I really enjoyed the whole conversation here! Tottaly agreed with the most of the things written here and the whole fluff with the heresy it suits greatly to be honest. After all those grim ages seems to have tons of conspirancies and hidden fluff to search about!
"Each path must be chosen with care,
Lest disaster swallow us whole."
Varo Tigurius
Ultramarines Chief Librarian
Wh40k: Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, Inquisition, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Harlequins, Tyranids, Orks, Chaos Space Marines, Daemons of Chaos.
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@Theofilos: Yeah, the Alpha Legion is an awesome legion, and imo the only one which remained a legion fully after the Horus Heresy. The black legion is a mishmash of legions, and the night lords, while retaining there relative communications are still fractured.
"By his Blood I am made.
By his Blood I am armored.
By his Blood shall I triumph."
- Catechism of Blood
"From the void we come -
darkness there, and nothing more"
- Carcharadons Astra
dakkawolf wrote:@Theofilos: Yeah, the Alpha Legion is an awesome legion, and imo the only one which remained a legion fully after the Horus Heresy. The black legion is a mishmash of legions, and the night lords, while retaining there relative communications are still fractured.
Yes, they are awesome BUT... I am not so sure that they remain a cohesive Legion 'today'.
I think the BL authors would be hard pressed to resist the literal 'brother vs. brother' schism they could have with Alpharius leading one faction and Omegon leading another, at cross purposes, of course!
Plus, it would help explain how we still end up with the mustache twirling, baby stapling stereotypical loonies of THE HUNT FOR VOLDORIUS and "The Long Games at Carcharias".
dakkawolf wrote:@Theofilos: Yeah, the Alpha Legion is an awesome legion, and imo the only one which remained a legion fully after the Horus Heresy. The black legion is a mishmash of legions, and the night lords, while retaining there relative communications are still fractured.
Yes, they are awesome BUT... I am not so sure that they remain a cohesive Legion 'today'.
I think the BL authors would be hard pressed to resist the literal 'brother vs. brother' schism they could have with Alpharius leading one faction and Omegon leading another, at cross purposes, of course!
Plus, it would help explain how we still end up with the mustache twirling, baby stapling stereotypical loonies of THE HUNT FOR VOLDORIUS and "The Long Games at Carcharias".
Maybe.
I've got my own idea as to how this will be going.
Namely:
The Alpha Legion are nearly decimated during the course of the Heresy, which explains why they had an 'Inquisitor' fudge the records of the Alpha Legion.
It's like the Knights of the Blackened Denarius from "The Dresden Files" novels. They are effectively a tiny, insignificant force in terms of numbers...but their influence and actions are felt everywhere.
dakkawolf wrote:@Theofilos: Yeah, the Alpha Legion is an awesome legion, and imo the only one which remained a legion fully after the Horus Heresy. The black legion is a mishmash of legions, and the night lords, while retaining there relative communications are still fractured.
The Word Bearers and Iron Warriors remain cohesive to this day. The Black Legion is not a mismatch of Legions.
Alpharius wrote:I think the BL authors would be hard pressed to resist the literal 'brother vs. brother' schism they could have with Alpharius leading one faction and Omegon leading another, at cross purposes, of course!
I hope they do resist. While it could work if written well, I think it would just be a bit too easy and similar to what happened in many other legions.
Alpharius wrote:Plus, it would help explain how we still end up with the mustache twirling, baby stapling stereotypical loonies of THE HUNT FOR VOLDORIUS and "The Long Games at Carcharias".
I know how I would deal with that *cough*pulpallnovelsandpretenditneverhappened*cough*.
dakkawolf wrote:@Theofilos: Yeah, the Alpha Legion is an awesome legion, and imo the only one which remained a legion fully after the Horus Heresy. The black legion is a mishmash of legions, and the night lords, while retaining there relative communications are still fractured.
Of course, they never really operated as a Legion, preferring to use small squads of operatives that subvert local assets to their purposes. That's why to this date the Imperium has declared them annihilated three separate times, only for them to rise up again. Of course, this fragmented style is what opens the door for individual Legionnaires to turn to Chaos. After all, in many ways, the Night Lords turned before their Primarch did (if he ever truly did), so it's not impossible that the same happened the Alpha Legion.
As for the brother vs. brother thing, I really hope that doesn't happen. For one, it's just too obvious and cliche, even for Games Workshop. Second, they are supposedly parts of a whole/sharing a single soul, so for them to not act in concert just seems wrong. I would prefer something like Alpharius or Omegon making themselves known during some massive plot against Ultramar, and Guilliman has to be re-awakened for a proper rematch.
Alpharius wrote:Plus, it would help explain how we still end up with the mustache twirling, baby stapling stereotypical loonies of THE HUNT FOR VOLDORIUS and "The Long Games at Carcharias".
I know how I would deal with that *cough*pulpallnovelsandpretenditneverhappened*cough*.
For what's worth, in the Age of Darkness short story, "Face of Treachery",
Spoiler:
the Alpha Legion seems to have orchestrated events to save Corax and his surviving Astartes from Istvaan V. So that lends credence to the theory that they were working against both the Imperium and Horus.
Of course, since this action works in direct opposition to Horus' success, it casts doubt on the idea that they were really buying the Coven's suggestion to annihilate all of humanity. Their current activities could well be in line with that Inquisition sub-sect that believes strife is to the benefit of the Imperium, whether just to keep up their vigilance or emerge stronger from each conflict.
[Mod Edit - Spolier Tags added]
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/30 18:08:48
Vulpes89 wrote:
Im pretty it was confirmed that they are brothers. and one of them is dead. killed by an Imperial assassin.
Incorrect. Guilliman killed someone calling himself Alpharius. It could have been Alpharius, Omegon, or any other Alpha Legion marine. We don't know.
The only Primarch not killed by another primarch or the Emperor was The Night Haunter (by a Callidus Assassin)
don't you think guilliman would have known if it was an ordinary marine? I mean primarchs are kind of noticeable beings...I'm pretty sure guilliman wouldn't be that stupid.
The Alpha Legion went out of their way to make members look similar, and in Legion alone, at least three members besides Omegon successfully pulled off pretending to be one of the primarchs. See someone in Alpharius' armour, who do you think it is, even if you are a primarch yourself? Besides, the Ultramarines themselves admitted it mightn't have been the real Alpharius.
Also, how do we know the Cabal isn't dedicated to Chaos itself? They show the Alpha Legion primarchs one vision. Surely they could be doing the same thing the Gods did to Horus earlier, showing them the future if they followed Horus rather than opposing him. It would certainly explain why they lost, with the vision coming true rather than being stopped.
Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play the best chess in the world, but at the end of the day the pigeon will still knock all the pieces off the board and then gak all over it.
Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play the best chess in the world, but at the end of the day the pigeon will still knock all the pieces off the board and then gak all over it.
True, he's not a genuine Astartes, so he doesn't have their "immortality" shtick, unless the enhancements given to him are really exceptional. I'm guessing it's a combination of enhancements, whatever sorceries he performed (he gained psychic powers, for one), and his cell being in stasis at least some of the time.
If they were loyal, their mission failed when Horus died and the Imperium won't ever take them back.
Methinks they've been forced into an untenable position.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kazerkinelite wrote:Well in DoW the Alpha Legion seems to be very much chaos...but the idea of them still being loyal to the Imperium is really cool, Although I doubt they will ever take it anywhere close to a definite answer.
I think it's a safe bet to say that DoW does a pretty poor job of portraying the Alpha Legion:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/30 15:07:18
i dont really consider that thing about luther a spoiler, anything on wikipedia i dont, if you have to read it solely in a book to get the knowledge, then yes
Frigian 582nd "the regulars" with thousand sons detachment 5th Edition
W : L : D
23 : 20 : 7
6th Edition
W : L : D
Don't Know...alot of each
Bretonnians
W : L : D
4 : 2 : 0
"Those are Regulars! By God!" -Major General Phineas Riall
Frigian 582nd 
W/L/D 6e 3/2/0
Fluff for the Fluff God! 
