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I don't believe parents are the case, but as a person who gets to deal with children's parents being angry often, I believe GW was thinking of killing that bird with the stone.

I've watched kids trade pokemon cards for almost everything, down to dog feces being the worst and an Ipod being the best. Shortly after the transition, when the parent talks to the child, he/she is outraged and complains to me about it. Eventually my boss decided trading wasn't allowed for the children, but the children still traded. What my boss did was give me an excuse to put the blame on the children, but still have to listen to the "Don't tell me how to raise my child" thing parents often spout when its obviously their fault....

Either way, I've never ran into one of these bizzares at my flgs nor knew they existed, so it doesn't impact me at all, but I think out of all of GW recent actions, this is the least hated and most understood.

Hm, this is not big, but added to the mistakes alredy made before, GW just is worsening his situation...

About the last sentence, when they talk about the "not eldar" models... Yeah GW, i dont know you invented space suits and elves, and are the fan who call those "not eldar".

I just imagine one lawyer entering GW one day with the fallowing words:

"I would like to intruduce you my clients, who are willing to process you for IP infringiment, they are: Christ (in name of all his "big company" named church), Einslen (who clames ownership of Power Armors IP), Tolkien (who represent the norse mithology conglomerate, and think the terms wood elves, high elves, eldar and old ones resemble to much his own IP), Tutancamon (who think you just ripped of the mithology of his people and called it Kings of Tombs, or something like that), and other hundreds of names and IP infrigements. Oh there is a guild of armorers that say your armors for fantasy are too close to the real counterparts they created one time ago. And i dont started to list the militar and weapons production companies, who really feel like your where ripping of their IP with the use of the word "gun" to many times. Oh, and your figures depicts wheels, fire and hammers right? You know those are IP of someone right (and he is upset too)."

Well, lets get back to the topic...

You can just trade somewhere else.

The Dwarf Wolf wrote:Hm, this is not big, but added to the mistakes alredy made before, GW just is worsening his situation...

About the last sentence, when they talk about the "not eldar" models... Yeah GW, i dont know you invented space suits and elves, and are the fan who call those "not eldar".

I just imagine one lawyer entering GW one day with the fallowing words:

"I would like to intruduce you my clients, who are willing to process you for IP infringiment, they are: Christ (in name of all his "big company" named church), Einslen (who clames ownership of Power Armors IP), Tolkien (who represent the norse mithology conglomerate, and think the terms wood elves, high elves, eldar and old ones resemble to much his own IP), Tutancamon (who think you just ripped of the mithology of his people and called it Kings of Tombs, or something like that), and other hundreds of names and IP infrigements. Oh there is a guild of armorers that say your armors for fantasy are too close to the real counterparts they created one time ago. And i dont started to list the militar and weapons production companies, who really feel like your where ripping of their IP with the use of the word "gun" to many times. Oh, and your figures depicts wheels, fire and hammers right? You know those are IP of someone right (and he is upset too)."

Well, glad you can imagine it. I can't.)

On Saturday I attended a trade for bits at my local GW store.

The guy I was trading with wanted more than I wanted from him so after the final count, we retreated to a safe distance, he paid me the agreed difference ($10) and we went for a bubble tea. We then re-entered the store and continued to talk shop and watch the Skyway to the Dangerzone event.

I am planning to go to Games Day Chicago, and was thinking of trying to informally arrange a bits swap among other attendees... do you think the GW folks would try to shut me down?

Nowhere do they even imply that they don't want people to do conversions.

Right now they don't. Wait until someone decides it somehow affects their bottom line.

I'm sure this was a simple business decision. How much money did these things make (the margin on the gift cards), compared to how much they lost (upset customers, lost retail sales).

Frankly, it's a lot of hassle with no real upside for GW. And as noted, it's a boon to FLGS's that want to run them.

catharsix wrote:I am planning to go to Games Day Chicago, and was thinking of trying to informally arrange a bits swap among other attendees... do you think the GW folks would try to shut me down?

If your not part of the show, you really don't want to get on stage.

Trading is going to happen, you won't have to do a thing to arrange anything.

Just watch out for the professional fleecing artists that are going to be asking excessive prices for thier trades.

Grot 6 wrote:

catharsix wrote:I am planning to go to Games Day Chicago, and was thinking of trying to informally arrange a bits swap among other attendees... do you think the GW folks would try to shut me down?

If your not part of the show, you really don't want to get on stage.

Trading is going to happen, you won't have to do a thing to arrange anything.

Just watch out for the professional fleecing artists that are going to be asking excessive prices for thier trades.

Well, I wasn't gonna try to get on any stages... I don't want to get ejected from GD after paying for a ticket!

I figured I'd try to drum up interest here on Dakka, etc., and then wear a very distinctive T-shirt so people can identify me. (In fact, I'll probably wear the T-shirt that is my user avatar here: that Zombie pic is a shirt that I love. And also I am very distinctive-looking - I'm 6ft. 4in. tall [196cm for you metric-ers] with a shaved head and scruffy goatee ) I'll carry my bits box/suitcase around with me for anyone to hit me up for some swappin!

And don't worry about anyone fleecing me - I wheel and deal for bits CONSTANTLY. I know the value of stuff, and have enough goodies myself that I won't fall for handing over a SM Commander combi-melta bit for a set of Termagaunt Deathspitters or anything like that

Polonius wrote:I'm sure this was a simple business decision. How much money did these things make (the margin on the gift cards), compared to how much they lost (upset customers, lost retail sales).

Frankly, it's a lot of hassle with no real upside for GW. And as noted, it's a boon to FLGS's that want to run them.

Yes you are right it will be a boon for this to happen for the indies.

However I have seen a lot good will that did happen at these bits trade days,

PR is one of the most important things to have to promote growth in your sales. This is what I saw in my region.

Sorry to see it go.

Kriswall wrote:It's perfectly fair for them to ask. Doesn't keep my Vanguard Veterans from having bitchin' third party Heresy Era jump packs. I can't use them in a GW store as they aren't official product, but that also is fair. They, rightly so, want to be able to sell everything a potential customer sees on the table.

Yet they allow conversions to be used in their stores. And, in my experience, scratchbuilds. Even Forgeworld goes against this, since while it's a GW product, it's not available in stores.

Not letting you use a non-GW product in their store has nothing to do with them wanting to be able to sell whatever someone sees in the store and everything to do with not allowing outside competition in the store.

If it's a conversion or a scratchbuild, they will quite readily tell someone that it was built by that person. If it's a product from a competitor, even a competitor obviously making bits for 40k models like pre heresy era jump packs, they don't want to tell that person that it was bought from someone else, as then they will go and buy from that company. Using it in a store is basically free advertising for whoever made the parts.

BrassScorpion wrote:SiteAn interesting turn of events since GW pretty much innovated the idea of in-store customer flea markets just a few years ago. I was at the the very first ones held at the GW stores in Maryland. .

No. They didn't.
Twenty years ago, these were events held at my FLGS (The Hobby Shop) here in St. Louis, when it was still in business.
I'm not claiming that Ken (the owner) invented them, of course. Just that GW had nothign to do with it. There weren't even any GW stores in the US at that time, AFAIK.

Sucks about the news, of course. Guess that means other people (like Mik) who do it better will just have to keep owning the market on those.

Eric

Well, there's always Bartertown...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MagickalMemories wrote:

BrassScorpion wrote:SiteAn interesting turn of events since GW pretty much innovated the idea of in-store customer flea markets just a few years ago. I was at the the very first ones held at the GW stores in Maryland. .

No. They didn't.

Yep, MM is correct. Even here in Chicago, Games Plus has been doing an in-store auction/trade day for something like 20 years...

Kriswall wrote:
Strictly speaking, creating a new model by way of conversion is infringement. However, GW is pretty clear above that they don't mind this and that it's a "major part of the hobby".

This isn't entirely true. Yes, a "conversion" could be considered a derivative work, however Fair Use will always apply to any modelers' conversion, unless they attempt to gain personal profit from it.

Twenty years ago, these were events held at my FLGS (The Hobby Shop) here in St. Louis,

People will argue about the darndest things. I didn't say GW invented the idea of the flea market entirely, obviously flea markets of many kinds, mostly not game related, existed for decades, but they did popularize it in a way heretofore unseen in the miniatures and gaming community. It was not all that common till GW started hosting them in their stores just a few years ago. Not one of the independent stores I've seen over the years did anything like it till after GW started.

I'm sure the flea markets at a few stores in limited local areas over the past 20 years or so were great and it's wonderful that they were ahead of their time with the idea, but it hardly caught on as a national or international trend from there. Since GW started having "Bizarre Bazaar" events for the first time about 4 or 5 years ago they have become commonplace even to the point that many independent stores use the nomenclature (i.e., Bizarre Bazaar) popularized by GW. That's a simple fact.

Why does every post on these forums require a huge explanation for someone? (rhetorical question, really, no, REALLY) As usual, when a thread gets to this point (i.e., silly arguments over basic facts or twisting words, etc.) it's time to drop out of the thread.

when it was still in business.

Guess it didn't work out too well for them. Maybe that's why the idea didn't exactly take off back then. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Vocabulary words from my two recent posts: innovated, nomenclature, popularize, rhetorical, heretofore

If you took it as arguing, you should rethink your opinions about written communication. There was no arguing, simply information.
You said that "GW pretty much innovated the idea of in-store customer flea markets just a few years ago." You also said, "Fortunately, the idea has caught on and many independent stores have flea markets now."

The word innovated, especially when supported by the second quote, inferred that you were saying GW was the first to do this. Like they created them. I was not the only one to get this opinion from what you said.

My point was that it didn't 'catch on.' it's actually been going on for years all over the country. Just because you hadn't heard of them does not mean they weren't happening.

No argument meant. Just clarification.

Also, sadly, they went out of business because an elderly, uninsured driver drover her car through about 2/3 of the store and his business insurance was insufficient to cover costs.
He made a valiant effort to come back, but eventually failed. : (


Eric

catharsix wrote:
And don't worry about anyone fleecing me - I wheel and deal for bits CONSTANTLY. I know the value of stuff, and have enough goodies myself that I won't fall for handing over a SM Commander combi-melta bit for a set of Termagaunt Deathspitters or anything like that

Seeing this, I have to say "Ouch." I once gave away a commander combi-melta because I lost a couple parts for a trade I was trying to make, so I sent the combi-melta as part of the supply to make up for the missing parts, which I later found and sent. I had just started playing non-daemon 40k and didn't know how valuable that combi was. To think I just GAVE it away... I'm sure the guy was VERY happy though

BrassScorpion wrote:

Twenty years ago, these were events held at my FLGS (The Hobby Shop) here in St. Louis,

People will argue about the darndest things. I didn't say GW invented the idea of the flea market entirely, obviously flea markets of many kinds, mostly not game related, existed for decades, but they did popularize it in a way heretofore unseen in the miniatures and gaming community....

You should really look up the definition of "innovated" then, since that's the word you used.

You should see what goes on in the parking lots of the local GWs. Trunk selling, etc. People don't wait for the bazaars anymore here. They talk quietly about it and then organize trades and sales outside to avoid aggro from the managers.

Of course, if a manager finds out, they go bat-gak crazy and loud arguments are had in the store, people are occasionally banned from the stores, etc, but you get the idea. GW is creating it's own nemesis in the long run. Has been for a long time.

The theory of a 'swap meet' is foreign to me - granted I have no official GW stores within a 3 hour drive.

Our local FLGS has bitz boxes (drawers or tupperware containers, really) that you can come in and purchase individual bitz at a low price from the store. They purchase the bitz in lots from players.

This avoids pretty much all the issues and gives the store a decent revenue stream.

I just go to regular miniatures wargaming conventions, get a flea market table, sell my excess stuff and buy stuff from the other people selling excess stuff. I believe a large percentage of my GW stuff is from the flea markets ant HMGS conventions.

I've been swapping bits in the local game store since I was in 6th grade. I'm 42 now, so that's a long time. That GW would ban bits trading in their stores comes as no shock. It's the same principle as movie theatres banning outside food and drink.

This IS the company that used to force you to have 5 units in a squad and then only sold them in packs of 4.

Maxim C. Gatling wrote:I've been swapping bits in the local game store since I was in 6th grade. I'm 42 now, so that's a long time. That GW would ban bits trading in their stores comes as no shock. It's the same principle as movie theatres banning outside food and drink.

This IS the company that used to force you to have 5 units in a squad and then only sold them in packs of 4.

Not banning the swapping of bits, they just aren't running the official events anymore.

...um my local GW are having one tomorrow

Oski Bugmansson wrote:...um my local GW are having one tomorrow

If they had one scheduled, it would of course still go on. They aren't allowed to schedule new events.

GW is gonna be in for a rude awakening when 3D printing becomes more of the norm. At least with trade days they actually had folks in their store. Way to think about the future GW.

Goliath wrote:You had bits trading at stores?

well, you can't miss what you never had, so this doesn't really affect me.

Same here. UK never really had this sort of thing.

Besides, any bit trading ever done was outside the store. Heck, I've even had the staff trade and buy stuff from me. Kind of amusing really. Shows they're people too.

What I heard they do at the local GW store is let you give them cash and they give store credit in return, basically collecting the cash from the seller.

I would rather go outside and give the person cash myself. It seems more honest to me.

This thread is ten months old?