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It really depends how you want to use you Demon, IMO.

Skarbrand with anything Slaanesh is a beast, but on his own, not so much. If you are happy to run a lot of Slaanesh, and have a greater Demon tiead up in a support role, Skarbrand is great. If you want a GD to rampage all over the board and smash stuff, go with a Bloodthirster.

So to answer the question about a HQ for a Fiend heavy list, well Skarbrand would work very well-but he would have to stay near them (or some other high I unit like Deamonettes)

Son_Of _Deddog wrote:It really depends how you want to use you Demon, IMO.

Skarbrand with anything Slaanesh is a beast, but on his own, not so much. If you are happy to run a lot of Slaanesh, and have a greater Demon tiead up in a support role, Skarbrand is great. If you want a GD to rampage all over the board and smash stuff, go with a Bloodthirster.

So to answer the question about a HQ for a Fiend heavy list, well Skarbrand would work very well-but he would have to stay near them (or some other high I unit like Deamonettes)

Issue slaneesh units for the most part suffer from the same things most of the Daemon army does; lack of granades (fiends don't have em, etc.)

Hopefully 6th ed makes Grenades base for all MC's... only makes sense, this huge hulking monstrosity would just punch through a wall and nomnomnom all day long -_-

Actually I think fiends are the only Slaanesh units that do not have grenades or access to them at 5 points.

I agree that MC should count as having offensive grenades, hopefulyl a 6th ed rule.

I do play a lot of Slaanesh units, and even then he is marginal at his cost. If you run into any DE players too he drops like a rock...speaking of which DE are a ridiculously difficuly matchup for any Daemon list.

calypso2ts wrote:Actually I think fiends are the only Slaanesh units that do not have grenades or access to them at 5 points.

I agree that MC should count as having offensive grenades, hopefulyl a 6th ed rule.

I do play a lot of Slaanesh units, and even then he is marginal at his cost. If you run into any DE players too he drops like a rock...speaking of which DE are a ridiculously difficuly matchup for any Daemon list.

yepper; especially if you play a monstermash style list (which I do)... luckily I'm the only DE player around these parts lol

Zid wrote:

Yuber wrote:

Zid wrote:

h0r0 wrote:Just asking the veteran Daemon players out there into which HQs would complement an all Fiends list.

Fateweaver, Heralds of Tzeentch, Bloodthirster are your best bets.

Skarbrands nice; however, the loss of flying for fleet REALLY hurts him (a smart player will chump block him all day long whereas a thirster can fly over screens). The reroll for hits awesome; issue is, if your playing an army thats super survivable (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, etc.) the rerolls to hit help your opponent more than yourself lol

Not if you are I6. And it is costly to chump block Skarbrand because he has Breathe of chaos, lets not forget he has dudes behind him too.

Trust me; I had one ENTIRE game where Skarbrand was chump blocked by 10 termagaunts 2 turns in a row (tervigon kept throwing out screens); turn 3, hiveguard all unloaded on him after fateweaver was dead... at that point I learned the cost of NOT having wings.

Also, if you fire BoC at the chump blockers you can't charge the meatier things behind them. As well, BT's get blessing; which is AWESOME vs GK.

You had one entire game where Skarbrand was chump blocked by termagants? What happened to the rest of your army? Skarbrand isnt than only thing in your list now isnt he?

Sounds more like bad generalship than skarbrand being a bad unit.

Also, it is safe to say that termagants can still chumblock a flying thirster just as easy. Unless ofcourse you can tactically disprove this.

DakkaDakka wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

Yuber wrote:
Also, it is safe to say that termagants can still chumblock a flying thirster just as easy. Unless ofcourse you can tactically disprove this.

In the vacuum space of forum postings? Sure! Easy as pie!

X = Bloodthirster
+ = 1 square inch of open space
T = a termigaunt


Step 1:
X++T+++++++++

Step 2:
+++T++++++++X

As per: Jump Infantry rules.

Now stop making strawman arguments, k?

I stand corrected =P

RandomSauce19 wrote:Back when Terra was called 'earth' I played Daemons IMHO what you need is Bloodletters and Plagubearers. Bloodletters are they only thing that will literally mash up your opponents. Plague bearers are just good for objectives of tough meat shields Anyway hope this helped

My list usually will consist of:

2 heralds of tzeentch on chariots, with master of sorcery and bolt of tzeentch

3 units of 10 pink horrors.
-all 3 have bolt of tzeentch
-one has a changeling upgrade
-one with an icon

2 units of 5 plaguebearers
-both units have noxious touch upgrade.

A unit of 10 plaguebearers
-noxious touch
-chaos icon

Usually for elites, I like:

3 units of 6 fiends of slaanesh
-unholy mark

Or,
3 units of 3Bloodcrushers
-all upgrades

Or, a combination of the two.

In terms of heavy support, I prefer tzeentch daemon princes, because they carry bolt of tzeentch, a strength 8, ap 1 weapon, great for anti-tank support.

I would avoid soulgrinder, due to the fact that it's a point sink, like many choices in the daemon codex.

Nurglings are useless, with no upgrades, and the swarm rule, best if used for free through ku'gath, otherwise disregarded. Many of your tzeentch daemons are staples, due to both their shooting abilities, and their invulnerable saves. Bloodletters can be used instead of the 10 man plaguebearer unit to be used in close combat, however, do not, at any cost, engage in close combat with you tzeentch daemons. Throug much personal experience, they're an unforgiving army, and not ideal for beginners, meaning that one misplay can cost you the game, one bad move, no matter how miniscule. Hovever, they are not nearly as unforgiving as. Tyranids or dark eldar, and the assault 3 hell fire weapon used by pink horrors is pretty good for standard issue, however, with ballistics skill 3, you're looking for 4's to hit.

Do:
-break up template formation a.s.a.p after deep striking, to reduce number of of daemons lost to templates.

-avoid using nurglings as a troop choice, as they have no upgrades, and no abilities, other than tie up units, best if used from ku'gath.

-split your units evenly before deployment, in a manner in which either choice is preferable to you.

-use mobile upgrades for heralds

Do not:

-go first, you can if you want, but, from personal experience, it's best to go second, making it to shoot up and kill your army by turn 2.

- engage in close combat using your shooters.


Best match-ups:
Tau, tyranids, orks, ultramarines, necrons.

Worst match-ups:
Blood angels, grey knights, IG, dark eldar, eldar.

*Note: all above is from 3 years of playing them, and experience gathered, result may not be typical, as no two play-styles are the same.

DakkaDakka wrote:

Yuber wrote:

Zid wrote:

Yuber wrote:

Zid wrote:

h0r0 wrote:Just asking the veteran Daemon players out there into which HQs would complement an all Fiends list.

Fateweaver, Heralds of Tzeentch, Bloodthirster are your best bets.

Skarbrands nice; however, the loss of flying for fleet REALLY hurts him (a smart player will chump block him all day long whereas a thirster can fly over screens). The reroll for hits awesome; issue is, if your playing an army thats super survivable (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, etc.) the rerolls to hit help your opponent more than yourself lol

Not if you are I6. And it is costly to chump block Skarbrand because he has Breathe of chaos, lets not forget he has dudes behind him too.

Trust me; I had one ENTIRE game where Skarbrand was chump blocked by 10 termagaunts 2 turns in a row (tervigon kept throwing out screens); turn 3, hiveguard all unloaded on him after fateweaver was dead... at that point I learned the cost of NOT having wings.

Also, if you fire BoC at the chump blockers you can't charge the meatier things behind them. As well, BT's get blessing; which is AWESOME vs GK.

You had one entire game where Skarbrand was chump blocked by termagants? What happened to the rest of your army? Skarbrand isnt than only thing in your list now isnt he?

Sounds more like bad generalship than skarbrand being a bad unit.

Also, it is safe to say that termagants can still chumblock a flying thirster just as easy. Unless ofcourse you can tactically disprove this.

Che-Vito pretty much hit the nail on the head. Pretty much what happened was; skarbrand dropped in. Opponent spawned 10 termagaunts and made a semi-circle surrounding him so I HAD to go through them to hit the things I wanted (his venomthropes/tervigon/hive guard). My opponent by this time had killed Fateweaver due to a horrible scatter, and his venomthropes were making my army strike at I1 per their rules; so I HAD to try and get them. My fiends were tied up far away from where skarbrand was, as were anything else to help. So i sligshotted off his terms to get close to his lines. Nexst turn, he moves 6" away from skarbrand, spawns another 10 gaunt shield and proceeds to do the same thing. Once again, I had no other choice but to try and break through.

By this time his venomthropes were eating my army alive; I couldn't get any good assaults as he stayed bubbled up, and he was picking apart my DP's and things due to weaver being disposed of early on (a note on that: I had scattered 10" DIRECTLY into a wall of 20 Hormagaunts which promptly demolished fateweaver when I was forced to try and make 35 saves...).

After that game I revamped and quit using bearers in favor of Horrors to shoot through meatshield units easily; plus provide for AT. As well, I take wings on ALL my DP's now to prevent chump blocking and provide mobility, and took a thirster over skarbrand as well.

The issue with Skarbrand is solely the fact that hes 300 points and is too easily avoided. He dies the same as a normal thirster. As well, blessings awesome in a meta filled with GK anymore. You can be the best general in the world, but Daemons need mobile things (like Fiends) to catch and destroy their prey. Wings are just far superior to fleet in my honest opinion; and every game I've used him (this is my second daemons army, my first was around 5k pts) he really didn't do anything a normal thirster couldn't have done


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Che-Vito wrote:

remilia_scarlet wrote:

RandomSauce19 wrote:Back when Terra was called 'earth' I played Daemons IMHO what you need is Bloodletters and Plagubearers. Bloodletters are they only thing that will literally mash up your opponents. Plague bearers are just good for objectives of tough meat shields Anyway hope this helped

My list usually will consist of:

2 heralds of tzeentch on chariots, with master of sorcery and bolt of tzeentch

3 units of 10 pink horrors.
-all 3 have bolt of tzeentch
-one has a changeling upgrade
-one with an icon

2 units of 5 plaguebearers
-both units have noxious touch upgrade.

A unit of 10 plaguebearers
-noxious touch
-chaos icon

Usually for elites, I like:

3 units of 6 fiends of slaanesh
-unholy mark

Or,
3 units of 3Bloodcrushers
-all upgrades

Or, a combination of the two.

In terms of heavy support, I prefer tzeentch daemon princes, because they carry bolt of tzeentch, a strength 8, ap 1 weapon, great for anti-tank support.

I would avoid soulgrinder, due to the fact that it's a point sink, like many choices in the daemon codex.

Nurglings are useless, with no upgrades, and the swarm rule, best if used for free through ku'gath, otherwise disregarded. Many of your tzeentch daemons are staples, due to both their shooting abilities, and their invulnerable saves. Bloodletters can be used instead of the 10 man plaguebearer unit to be used in close combat, however, do not, at any cost, engage in close combat with you tzeentch daemons. Throug much personal experience, they're an unforgiving army, and not ideal for beginners, meaning that one misplay can cost you the game, one bad move, no matter how miniscule. Hovever, they are not nearly as unforgiving as. Tyranids or dark eldar, and the assault 3 hell fire weapon used by pink horrors is pretty good for standard issue, however, with ballistics skill 3, you're looking for 4's to hit.

Do:
-break up template formation a.s.a.p after deep striking, to reduce number of of daemons lost to templates.

-avoid using nurglings as a troop choice, as they have no upgrades, and no abilities, other than tie up units, best if used from ku'gath.

-split your units evenly before deployment, in a manner in which either choice is preferable to you.

-use mobile upgrades for heralds

Do not:

-go first, you can if you want, but, from personal experience, it's best to go second, making it to shoot up and kill your army by turn 2.

- engage in close combat using your shooters.


Best match-ups:
Tau, tyranids, orks, ultramarines, necrons.

Worst match-ups:
Blood angels, grey knights, IG, dark eldar, eldar.

*Note: all above is from 3 years of playing them, and experience gathered, result may not be typical, as no two play-styles are the same.

A few things off the bat:
- Plaguebearers are only good for holding objectives. End of story.
- Soul Grinders are not a points sink, especially not when compared to the cost of a fully-kitted out Tzeentch Prince.
- Ku'gath's Nurglings are one of his WEAKEST points, in that they create easy KP for the opponent. Units of Nurglings can be amazing tarpits and distractions.
-Your army is very elite-dependent. Inserting Troops where you can, and getting rid of all except perhaps one or two Icons, will help a lot. 5e is all about the Troops, and Daemons have the luxury of having two solid Troops choices for their cost.

Well said Chi.

Soulgrinders are excellent in any non-fateweaver list. If you do the 4x Heralds of T style Grinders are superior to princes in almost every way; chariots pop the transports, grinders drop a battlecannon on the contents = profit. Or mono god lists. Personally I only like DP's in Fateweaver lists; they're expensive, but it gives more use of that bubble

Someone cannot detect sarcasm here. Sigh.

Yuber wrote:Someone cannot detect sarcasm here. Sigh.

They can't read the whole post either.