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and Tankbustas don't have Tank Hunters...

*sigh* so many missed opportooniteez!

No?Thought that they would,and it certainly makes sense given their role.

Yea that ones a big ol WTF right there

me : Tanbustas.
GW: uh huh
me: They hunt tanks.
GW: YUP!
me: they dont have tank hunters USR
GW: uh huh
me: But they hunt.....tanks.
GW: Yes they do!
me:

Me:They are Commandoes
GW:Yes(rolls their eyes like it is obvious)
Me:They are stealthy
GW:yup.
me:But they are not in possession of the Stealth USR
GW:Yup

me: its spelled Kommando
Deadshot: Oh. Your awesome KC
me: Yea...... I know buddy


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I do agree though

KingCracker wrote:me: its spelled Kommando
Deadshot: Oh. Your awesome KC
me: Yea...... I know buddy


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do agree though

I know,but they are a Commando unit,as in modern commandoes.

Wait a second....are you trying to use real world logic in 40k?

Always a bad move, unless you like cranial implosion

Ayup. Heres an example.

If your 1000 yards from a barn, and you shoot at it, youll probably miss right?
If your 10 yards infront of that same barn, would you miss it? Of course not.



Now in game, lets say its not moving. If my shootas boyz are 15 inches away from say, a battle wagon, they are BS2 and will only hit on a 5+
If they move close to that same battle wagon, and are now 3 inches away, will they have a better chance to hit it? No! NO!!!!!!!!! YOUR AN IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EAT RAW MEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


See my point?

I do.You also used real world logic with the Tank Hunters Tanbustas.

Thing is, there's a precedent for that. In the prior Ork kodex, the Tank Bustas? They had Tank Hunter.

Not to mention there was no real world logic in what said. Its in their fluff, they hunt tanks, ergo, tankhunters USR. But thats using fluff as a rules argument as well. another no no lol

Commandoes are stealth fighters.Kommandoes are Commandoes.They should have stealth.

Tank Bustas are Tank Hunters.They should have tank hunters.


How is that any different?

Well as mentioned, block hordes with empty rhinos so that they are forced to move around in your advantage, or punch rhino and hope it goes boom killing a couple of orks. If you plan on taking baal preds, use the assault cannon/heavy bolters. They preform well taking out hordes and ork armor at a distance. 3 flamer templates sounds good, but you'll have to be very close and you"ll rarely use all three templates.

Tank Shocing the mob will put you at the centre.Then all three templates will come into play,presumably hitting right from end to end.

Deadshot wrote:Tank Shocing the mob will put you at the centre.Then all three templates will come into play,presumably hitting right from end to end.

When tank shocking, the shocked unit moves left or right from the tanks path, so you would really only get two templates. And I MIGHT be wrong, but when you tank shock you move full speed, only allowing you to fire one weapon.

Not if they are 11 models +,because then they auto pass.Yor are indeed wrong.You must declare speed then move.And if I declare combat speed,amnd I am a fast vehchicle,I count as stationary for weapons.

If you ram you must move fast as possible.


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If you are tank shocking a boys mob,the onlty qworry is a single PK attack,which will only glanced on a 5.

Rokkits also glance on 5s and an DoG is well worth a try with them.

PK nob o0r rokkit,doesn't matter.If he rolls a glance,the worst that can happen is the guy lives.If he pentrates,then 1/3 of the time the attacker dies,1/3 of the time you die(1/2 of yopur deaths will kill a couple of orks),and 1/6 time,his remaining guys that survive the inferno will auto hit you.Even a HF and Flamestrom is deadly in the middle of a mob.


In fact,you don't have to even move into them,you could park next to them,and be safe from DoG and Half of the survivors attacks.

to short it up for you man.
A drop pod, a dred with bloodtalons.
Assault squad with a sanguinary.
Some good cheap transports to block with non buffed up linear units in it that can go out the back and shoot crap but you don't care if they die.
Dreadnought...Librarian...
But I get the BA and DA codex mixed up because the same guy plays both against me.
Hate terminators and dreadnoughts the most, but don't Deepstrike the Termies put em in a transport if you can or jus walk the bastards up.
Anyways, it's really about placement, so make sure you place your guys carefully so you can have road blocks between his nob bikers and your whatever important troops are.
When fighting orks, all anti-tank should now become anti-nob.
bolter fire or chargiing with assault squads will take care of ork vehicles.
Deffkoptas will piss you off. Don't let them distract you with their charm, charge 'em if they get near, but don't waste anti-tank shots on them when you can use those shots against REAL nobz.
sleepy so can't think of anything else. GoodLuck.
(I don't like SM because I think a lot of their rules are just whoa...but I can't remember the last time any SM team or player has beat me. So orks are better because unlike SM, we are usually always fielding all comer lists.)



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Deadshot wrote:

KingCracker wrote:me: its spelled Kommando
Deadshot: Oh. Your awesome KC
me: Yea...... I know buddy


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do agree though

I know,but they are a Commando unit,as in modern commandoes.

He agreed with you, I believe he was making an orky joke. I ddn't see that face b4 for some reason, its funny.

I can't be bothered to write out so many quotes,so the stuff in red is my answers.

Runna wrote:to short it up for you man.
A drop pod, a dred with bloodtalons.
The dreadnought can't assault on the turn he lands, so at the most he will be killing a few orks,as you probably won't want to be landing right net to the mob.


Assault squad with a sanguinary.
I question the loss of an Elite slot for FC and FNP, but it is a good enough unit I suppose.

Some good cheap transports to block with non buffed up linear units in it that can go out the back and shoot crap but you don't care if they die.
Fair enough, but what if you need those Transports to get to an objective?


Dreadnought...Librarian...
A normal Libby is better.
Reasons
He can't lose his force weapon.
Wings can be useless if the Dread is immobile.
Libby Dreads can only use 1 power a turn.
Libby dreads can't join squads for protection


But I get the BA and DA codex mixed up because the same guy plays both against me.
Hate terminators and dreadnoughts the most, but don't Deepstrike the Termies put em in a transport if you can or jus walk the bastards up.
Anyways, it's really about placement, so make sure you place your guys carefully so you can have road blocks between his nob bikers and your whatever important troops are.
This is good for Assault Termies, they do nothing when deep striking. However, Normal Termies S.Bolters are going to be in a Transport that has no windows, so you lose the firepower of the squad. HF won't be in range for a few turns ,but DS them in, while it is a very risky move(assuming there is no Teleport Becons), is worth a good few dead orks, right?


When fighting orks, all anti-tank should now become anti-nob.
bolter fire or chargiing with assault squads will take care of ork vehicles.
Unless Ghrazy is about, then you direct all firepower at his TRANSPORT, not Ghraz himself, as he has SNP and won't be reaching you on foot for a while.

Deffkoptas will piss you off. Don't let them distract you with their charm, charge 'em if they get near, but don't waste anti-tank shots on them when you can use those shots against REAL nobz.
What he said. This is correct.

The best way to beat ork hoards is with punchy marine hoards, my favorite is a 20 man chaos space marine hoard. He might have 4 or 5, 30 man boy squads. But 3, 20 man chaos marine squads will wipe the deck with them.

Lets say you have 20 marines with MoK(Mark of Khorne) and charge a 30 man boy hoard, you go first, you get 80 attacks, 40 hits, 20 wounds, 17 dead boyz and you can wait for them to come to you before assault allowing 1 or two turns of shooting your bolters at them and get pistols.
After that there should be about 10 or less boyz left in that hoard. They will only kill about 2 - 5 marines depending on how lucky their powerclaw is, then fearless will take out the rest of them or if there are less than 11 then they need double ones or fall back/sweep.
Rinse and Repeat.

Also you can easily beat nobbikers in CC, you can take 2 meltaguns or lazcannons per hoard to pop kans and trucks
If you have problems with nobs or grozzgul than take abbadon and put powerfists in your hoards, if you weren't going to do that already.

You also should avoid trying to beat boyz via shooting unless you have something that negates cover.

Deadshot wrote:I can't be bothered to write out so many quotes,so the stuff in red is my answers.

Runna wrote:to short it up for you man.
A drop pod, a dred with bloodtalons.
The dreadnought can't assault on the turn he lands, so at the most he will be killing a few orks,as you probably won't want to be landing right net to the mob.


Assault squad with a sanguinary.
I question the loss of an Elite slot for FC and FNP, but it is a good enough unit I suppose.

Some good cheap transports to block with non buffed up linear units in it that can go out the back and shoot crap but you don't care if they die.
Fair enough, but what if you need those Transports to get to an objective?


Dreadnought...Librarian...
A normal Libby is better.
Reasons
He can't lose his force weapon.
Wings can be useless if the Dread is immobile.
Libby Dreads can only use 1 power a turn.
Libby dreads can't join squads for protection


But I get the BA and DA codex mixed up because the same guy plays both against me.
Hate terminators and dreadnoughts the most, but don't Deepstrike the Termies put em in a transport if you can or jus walk the bastards up.
Anyways, it's really about placement, so make sure you place your guys carefully so you can have road blocks between his nob bikers and your whatever important troops are.
This is good for Assault Termies, they do nothing when deep striking. However, Normal Termies S.Bolters are going to be in a Transport that has no windows, so you lose the firepower of the squad. HF won't be in range for a few turns ,but DS them in, while it is a very risky move(assuming there is no Teleport Becons), is worth a good few dead orks, right?


When fighting orks, all anti-tank should now become anti-nob.
bolter fire or chargiing with assault squads will take care of ork vehicles.
Unless Ghrazy is about, then you direct all firepower at his TRANSPORT, not Ghraz himself, as he has SNP and won't be reaching you on foot for a while.

Deffkoptas will piss you off. Don't let them distract you with their charm, charge 'em if they get near, but don't waste anti-tank shots on them when you can use those shots against REAL nobz.
What he said. This is correct.

I mean Dreadnoughts or Librarians are usually good against orks. I'm just lazy at posting the whole of my thoughts out and hope the way I say it gets transfered on to the screen, which it doesn't, which is why I'm not good in chat rooms...
And its not that you don't make valid points, specifically the one about Ghaz which I heartily agree with, its just my advice is based of a lot, and I mean, a lot of games against a SM player who had many chances to tailor lists against my orks and I listed the most effective things throughout our games.
A Dreadnought in a drop pod falling behind boyz is amazingly effective. He has some upgrade where he can re-roll failed hits, and failed wounds, and gets to roll another hit for each succesful wound caused, it eats through boyz squads and nobz because it's initiative lets it go first, very few things in the dex can stand toe to toe with this, in fact, maybe just Ghaz.
I field a Warboss on a bike in most my games with a BC instead of a PK to deal with CC squads and walkers. He's the reason I don't lose. Yet you'll hear no one suggest the build. Experimenting will ensure you a list your comfortable with and let you see how your opponent reacts to your different threats. Through experiments and plenty of lists and games against SM, including SW, BA, DA and Vanilla, the things I wrote down were merely the best tactics my opponent has been able to deploy to stop me.
Termies with a Librarian and a Sanguinary, I've only killed once, and it was Ghaz on his Waagh that did it. They are a ridiculous squad.
Sanguinary give FnP to units within 6", he is broken and usually always worth the points.


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he transports to getting to an objective thing...thats a good point and something I imagine you'd have to deal with in game as to which is more important.

Honestly, I am not that perturbed by Talon Dreads. They either have Rage or aren't Fleet. I heartily love me Warbuggies and Battlewagons in turn for moveblocking and Deffrolling. Likewise, it's worth reminding a Ba player that Talons are only S6 versus vehicles like, say, Kans..

What *does* scare me is when a player runs an alphastrike list with 2 Librarian Dreads (with Blood Lance and Fear of the Darkness), 2 Pods, and 2 Stormravens, appropriate support elements added to flavor (like, oh idunno, massed Flamerbacks). Or the occasional shenanigans involving him using Magna Grapples to mess up my roadblock formations or yank my Kans into unfavorable assaults. Or him outflanking a Baal Pred (and using Corbulo to ensure the correct table edge) before unloading on an exposed unit (like, say, Lootas). Or pretty much any "smart play" on his part involving more than trying to get into melee with me. (Though Scout Bikes worry me too since they force me to bubblewrap against a turn-1 Grenading of my Wagons. Then the guy uses Dante and a Priest to use said Bikes to yank my bubblewrap about, pulling them in akin to fishing before Hit and Running away...).

yeah that rage does hinder them a bit. I hate storm ravens, oh man do I hate storm ravens. His dred always kills my kans even with st 6 due to the any roll on the damage chart is counted as a wound when tallying who won comabt and the blood talons can make another hit when they succesfully wound...a debatable choice I normally don't bother with because I just run away from the damn thing. Which is why the drop pod. Placed well even the Rage has no matter because the damn thing is fleet and with a heavy flamer on it it burns the crap out of my nob bikers when it arrives usually, thank goodness for cybork body and FnP. Nob Bikers are hard to kill in groups of 5 or more. Smaller groups for some reason just not worth it. I've been considering buying warbuggies...they work out for you in most games?
The weaponry in the SM codex is destructive as H3LL and could easily have plenty blast and tank killers in even a 1k pnt list.
But what I think we should do for the OP is figure out the key points everyone agrees on, and he can take those as solid all-comer ideas without tailoring against Orks.
Though after reading again I think he wants to tailor so I wonder my point being valid...
Why is there no one who can edit my posts, I bet I'll post this and look back even not sure why I wrote it. OP, I hope something has helped you on this thread and don't forget to eat Bananas.

I'm a bit boggled here... from my understanding of the BA Codex, they are all but designed to kill orks. I always attributed my win against BA players to them being very poor players (Their ranking in the local league supports this).

A squad of Assault Marine should get the charge on a boy mob with ease (what with them being jump infantry and all) and assuming a priest is nearby (why wouldn't he?), will do massive damage to the mob... and 3+ sv and FNP will really take out the oumph of the already defanged S3 counter attack (what is left of it anyway after the pistol casualities and CC casualties) - it is possible to wipe out a 30 strong squad of boyz on the assault with a little luck on the dice here - and even with the bare stasticial average, you're still totally mangling that squad for almost no loses.

Killa Kan have a worse Init than BA dread and quite a few BA dread also happen to have WS5, meaning the kans will need 5+ to hit, which greatly lower their chance of killing said dread in CC.

And then there's LR, Stormraven, access to tons of flamer template weaponry and so on.

Your troop beat his troop, your elite beat his elite, your heavy beat his heavy... all you gotta do is outmaneuver him with units that have superior mobility and defeat him with unit that are deadlier than his... a real challenge!

BA are desperately OP. They have a all that, and their anti-orkness is emplified by Captain Tycho, who has Preffered enemy: orks.


Best thing you can do is take out his troops with pile-ons and scrums of 2-3 big mobs, and deny him objective captures. Even if he wipes out your troops, you can draw.

Take a small grot unit and walk them onto an objective late in. Large units of boys should maul when ganging up.