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Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:Blood Reaver. The station Hell's Iris is populated by a large number of pregnant women. It's how they repopulate their numbers, using their own geneseed stored in huge banks or taking from other chapters such as the Marines Errant.

Somehow I always thought that Marines were NOT capable of reproduction, since they are chemically castrated. Besides, geneseed is not sperm.

Did I say it was the Marines that did the business? No, I didn't, your inventing you're own conclusion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

1hadhq wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
The 13th Black Crusade. Declared a minor win for Chaos and the forces of Disorder.

The only "force " of disorder in the 40k verse is M.W.
Created a lot of fluff-chaos.

Still, I would like to suggest you look up what has been implemented from the campaign.
IIRC Tau benefited. Chaos?

Hello? Chaos?

Sounds like chaos got ignored by GW.
Exhibit A: IG codices released after the EoT "incident".
Exhibit B: 5th ed codices and the focus on mr huron B.
Would it be safe to assume certain gamedesigners were kept away from the Legions?
Its not like the design team has a say when the course of the background is set.
A u-turn wouldn't be impossible, but it looks like the power is intended to be split between the "new followers" and the "the long war is our master" faction. Diverted interests and halved power isn't helping to win IMO.

So you're going to dismiss the outcome of the Crusade simply because there's no more recent information about it? Result - Minor Victory for Chaos. Yes that's right, Chaos won, they made advances into the Cadian sector, they've taken many planets, nearly the entire surface of Cadia, and have opened the Gate for further expansion compared to less regions where the Imperium managed to hold the line.

iproxtaco wrote:Blood Reaver. The station Hell's Iris is populated by a large number of pregnant women. It's how they repopulate their numbers, using their own geneseed stored in huge banks or taking from other chapters such as the Marines Errant.
Red Corsairs do it by the conventional method. Taking their own geneseed or that of other chapters and implanting it the normal way.

This isn't going to work forever if they delve into the corruption.
The ruinous powers aren't called ruinous because they preserve...
Some renegades may continue like they had before they turned for a while. But I think its also a point we should consider:
- the NL deem not all of them able to provide usable geneseed. Exactly in that series by ADB.

CSM are stuck in a war they can't win, like we all are...

Well that's not true is it, unless you can provide a quote that says that. They wished the mothers to remain pure, that's not to say the children aren't suitable. The Night Lords are notorious for their hatred of Chaos. It was Talos, one who refused the Gods themselves, who despises Chaos, who ordered Septimus to find pure mothers. The Corsairs and other Legions have survived so far, The Black Legion has recovered from near destruction, it's fairly obvious that they're able to maintain their numbers.

iproxtaco wrote:
So you're going to dismiss the outcome of the Crusade simply because there's no more recent information about it? Result - Minor Victory for Chaos. Yes that's right, Chaos won, they made advances into the Cadian sector, they've taken many planets, nearly the entire surface of Cadia, and have opened the Gate for further expansion compared to less regions where the Imperium managed to hold the line.

I deem it dropped when it has been unused for 2 editions.
Now, point to the GW publication where I may find supplied by the company itself, that Cadia has CSM on it.
Like I said, have a look at 4th and 5th ed, rulebook, expansions, codices, etc.
From a pov called timeline, this 13th crusade should have happened already and first results become part of the background.
This is true for the fish people.
Tell me, are these no-noses better supplied in fluff than chaos?

iproxtaco wrote:
Well that's not true is it, unless you can provide a quote that says that. They wished the mothers to remain pure, that's not to say the children aren't suitable. The Night Lords are notorious for their hatred of Chaos. It was Talos, one who refused the Gods themselves, who despises Chaos, who ordered Septimus to find pure mothers. The Corsairs and other Legions have survived so far, The Black Legion has recovered from near destruction, it's fairly obvious that they're able to maintain their numbers.

If 'I could be stopped from looking at the WD/sob dex for now, I may do that.
Until then, Talos was a Apothecary, thus one of those who implement geneseed and test the function of it.
I'd say an apothecary is one of the best sources you can get when it comes to creating new space marines.

The Red corsairs are also shown there as equally powerful as Abbys black legion, so either the red corsairs got a lot of influx or the BL isn't as numerous as you say. Maybe its important to consider the size of the warband compared to its size after they ran away.
Maintining to keep the small number of survivors constant is not such a big deal. Plus Abby is known to accept members of other legions and could have a lot of marines without luna wolves geneseed..wouldn't raise the overall size of CSM groups then.

1hadhq wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
So you're going to dismiss the outcome of the Crusade simply because there's no more recent information about it? Result - Minor Victory for Chaos. Yes that's right, Chaos won, they made advances into the Cadian sector, they've taken many planets, nearly the entire surface of Cadia, and have opened the Gate for further expansion compared to less regions where the Imperium managed to hold the line.

I deem it dropped when it has been unused for 2 editions.
Now, point to the GW publication where I may find supplied by the company itself, that Cadia has CSM on it.
Like I said, have a look at 4th and 5th ed, rulebook, expansions, codices, etc.
From a pov called timeline, this 13th crusade should have happened already and first results become part of the background.
This is true for the fish people.
Tell me, are these no-noses better supplied in fluff than chaos?

I don't really understand what you're saying. I have no real idea as to why there isn't a lot of information outside of the Campaign book and results, maybe because all the information is already presented? That's not sarcasm. Not that it matters, the results are canon until contradicted, which they haven't been. The Imperial Guard codex is as much propaganda as it is fact, they aren't going to go on about how they're being defeated. The current Chaos Codex is a monumental fail, its concentration on the Renegades has something to with.

iproxtaco wrote:
Well that's not true is it, unless you can provide a quote that says that. They wished the mothers to remain pure, that's not to say the children aren't suitable. The Night Lords are notorious for their hatred of Chaos. It was Talos, one who refused the Gods themselves, who despises Chaos, who ordered Septimus to find pure mothers. The Corsairs and other Legions have survived so far, The Black Legion has recovered from near destruction, it's fairly obvious that they're able to maintain their numbers.

If 'I could be stopped from looking at the WD/sob dex for now, I may do that.
Until then, Talos was a Apothecary, thus one of those who implement geneseed and test the function of it.
I'd say an apothecary is one of the best sources you can get when it comes to creating new space marines.

The Red corsairs are also shown there as equally powerful as Abbys black legion, so either the red corsairs got a lot of influx or the BL isn't as numerous as you say. Maybe its important to consider the size of the warband compared to its size after they ran away.
Maintining to keep the small number of survivors constant is not such a big deal. Plus Abby is known to accept members of other legions and could have a lot of marines without luna wolves geneseed..wouldn't raise the overall size of CSM groups then.

True, but until you find a quote that says they weren't at all suitable.

Shown where? The same book we're talking about says that Abbaddon's forces are more powerful even than his Primarch. I take that with a grain of salt to be honest. I'm certain that Abbaddon surpasses Huron. Take the two Night Lords books again. In the first, Abbaddon takes on an entire system head on, including a Forge World with Titan Legions and a large sector fleet. Huron doesn't even risk attacking a Fortress Monastery that's severely under garrisoned with literally no defense fleet in orbit, and relies on years of careful coordination and luck to succeed.
From what I recall, the Black Legion suffered from large numbers of possessed marines dying after their Daemons abandoned them. This problem was fixed, and their numbers grew exponentially. Lack of information hinders any sort of discussion. I'd assume that the Black Legion has a similar process to the Red Corsairs mixed with some sorcery.

1hadhq wrote:

iproxtaco wrote:
So you're going to dismiss the outcome of the Crusade simply because there's no more recent information about it? Result - Minor Victory for Chaos. Yes that's right, Chaos won, they made advances into the Cadian sector, they've taken many planets, nearly the entire surface of Cadia, and have opened the Gate for further expansion compared to less regions where the Imperium managed to hold the line.

I deem it dropped when it has been unused for 2 editions.
Now, point to the GW publication where I may find supplied by the company itself, that Cadia has CSM on it.
Like I said, have a look at 4th and 5th ed, rulebook, expansions, codices, etc.
From a pov called timeline, this 13th crusade should have happened already and first results become part of the background.
This is true for the fish people.
Tell me, are these no-noses better supplied in fluff than chaos?

Codex CSM, 4th ed. says that Cadia and its sub sectors are an area of perpetually fierce fighting between the Imperial forces and Chaos Legions. So either they're actually on-planet, or the Navy is incompetent enough to continually let Chaos fleets in.

Also, while the Red Corsairs may rival the Black Legion itself in size, most of the other Chaos Legions are now allied with Abaddon in one way or another.

iproxtaco wrote:
I don't really understand what you're saying. I have no real idea as to why there isn't a lot of information outside of the Campaign book and results, maybe because all the information is already presented? That's not sarcasm. Not that it matters, the results are canon until contradicted, which they haven't been. The Imperial Guard codex is as much propaganda as it is fact, they aren't going to go on about how they're being defeated. The current Chaos Codex is a monumental fail, its concentration on the Renegades has something to with.

So a chaos dex is less of a pamphlet filled with propaganda than a IG one?
I believe the nature of chaos would point to the opposite and chaos IS the greatest heap of propaganda and lies you can find.
See, some codices include defeats and the IG one has such too. IG isn't prone to "do a Draigo", no matter how easy it would be with
Heroes like "marbo" in their ranks.

Is there any change to the status of Cadia in any imperial dex since the EoT campaign?
No.
I think this is the outcome GW wanted, Cadia still a fortress and abby kept there busy until they deem it suitable to return to chaos.
EoT = 2004
CSM = 2007
Cadia got just 2 lines in abbys entry. Not that much if GW had 3 years to think about it.

iproxtaco wrote:
Shown where? The same book we're talking about says that Abbaddon's forces are more powerful even than his Primarch. I take that with a grain of salt to be honest. I'm certain that Abbaddon surpasses Huron. Take the two Night Lords books again. In the first, Abbaddon takes on an entire system head on, including a Forge World with Titan Legions and a large sector fleet. Huron doesn't even risk attacking a Fortress Monastery that's severely under garrisoned with literally no defense fleet in orbit, and relies on years of careful coordination and luck to succeed.
From what I recall, the Black Legion suffered from large numbers of possessed marines dying after their Daemons abandoned them. This problem was fixed, and their numbers grew exponentially. Lack of information hinders any sort of discussion. I'd assume that the Black Legion has a similar process to the Red Corsairs mixed with some sorcery.

agreed they won't allow ADB to tell us where the course of chaos is set.
( if it is at all. Old minis and rumors would hint on a reintroduction somewhere in 6th).

Durza wrote:
Codex CSM, 4th ed. says that Cadia and its sub sectors are an area of perpetually fierce fighting between the Imperial forces and Chaos Legions. So either they're actually on-planet, or the Navy is incompetent enough to continually let Chaos fleets in.

Also, while the Red Corsairs may rival the Black Legion itself in size, most of the other Chaos Legions are now allied with Abaddon in one way or another.

Read it as 5th ed first...
Sure a standstill isn't what the warbands of chaos need.

The inquisition would probably try to make a super exterminates to take out all the enemys of the imperium (sore losers) and end up blowning them selves up, then the orks rise out of the ashes and place a flag on top of the wreckage lol