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I think it's because humanity to the masses can be easier to sell then Aliens.

Personally i'm a Dwarf kinda guy.

Shadowbrand wrote:

Personally i'm a Dwarf kinda guy.

Whats height got to do with this?
*snicker*

DakkaDakka wrote:

One marine build is unealistic. The chapters have gotten way too out of control and have developed a life of their own. It's like once their released there's no taking them back without pissing alot of people off. I would not mind seeing GK and Sisters reduced to just, The Inquisition. That is both an acceptable and realistic change.

DakkaDakka wrote:

I see where your coming from, and to an extent i agree but i'm personally happy that there are different space marine codex's.

Look, vanilla marines are very good for a starter race (Less models, easy to paint, ect) But we can all agree They're EXTREMELY boring ( I would say the most boring race in warhammer 40k)

So when a marine player (like myself) Gets bored of vanilla, there are other (Much more interesting) chapters to go to.

That's my thought on it anyways.

Brother Coa wrote:But the story is more generated around the Imperium because:

a ) They are Human.
b ) They have awesome heroes and endless army's of both manpower and armor
c ) And beside all that - they are losing war for survival.
d ) The verity of cultures used for the Imperium is bigger then in any other sci-fi setting.

If they had endless manpower and armour they most certainly would not be losing a war for survival.

DakkaDakka wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:I don't see why the fluff can't be kept as is, with an additional story or two added. Similar units pooled together, and bam, you've got yourself one big old codex that doesn't need an update until the next edition.

There's no real reason outside of how GW like to release armies in each edition. One big release with an army book and several new plastic kits and (now) finecase models, followed by a month or two of backup waves to keep interest high.

One big codex wouldn't let them do this. They'd have to keep releasing kits without a book to back them up, which doesn't generate as many sales.

-Loki- wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:But the story is more generated around the Imperium because:

a ) They are Human.
b ) They have awesome heroes and endless army's of both manpower and armor
c ) And beside all that - they are losing war for survival.
d ) The verity of cultures used for the Imperium is bigger then in any other sci-fi setting.

If they had endless manpower and armour they most certainly would not be losing a war for survival.

Rulebook 5'th edition - "The Imperium is slowly losing war for survival."
Imperial Guard 5'th edition - "There are billions of Imperial Guard Regiments in the galaxy."

Something doesn't add up here...

Justy wrote:Do you guys realize this game is about the IoM and his struggle in the grimdark future, they are the protagonist of this history, not your tau or necrons or eldar...

People who think there are too many SMs and IoM armies don't want the IoM to be the protagonist of the story.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Justy wrote:Do you guys realize this game is about the IoM and his struggle in the grimdark future, they are the protagonist of this history, not your tau or necrons or eldar...

People who think there are too many SMs and IoM armies don't want the IoM to be the protagonist of the story.

These are generally also people who attend furry conventions and live in thier parents basement dreaming of thier next LARP adventure as a half ogre.

AustonT wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Justy wrote:Do you guys realize this game is about the IoM and his struggle in the grimdark future, they are the protagonist of this history, not your tau or necrons or eldar...

People who think there are too many SMs and IoM armies don't want the IoM to be the protagonist of the story.

These are generally also people who attend furry conventions and live in thier parents basement dreaming of thier next LARP adventure as a half ogre.

This will offend so many people...

Brother Coa wrote:

AustonT wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:

Justy wrote:Do you guys realize this game is about the IoM and his struggle in the grimdark future, they are the protagonist of this history, not your tau or necrons or eldar...

People who think there are too many SMs and IoM armies don't want the IoM to be the protagonist of the story.

These are generally also people who attend furry conventions and live in thier parents basement dreaming of thier next LARP adventure as a half ogre.

This will offend so many people...

I am offended. There is nothing furry in 40k except the monkeys.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Justy wrote:Do you guys realize this game is about the IoM and his struggle in the grimdark future, they are the protagonist of this history, not your tau or necrons or eldar...

People who think there are too many SMs and IoM armies don't want the IoM to be the protagonist of the story.

The Imperium being the protagonist of the story doesn't mean half of the army books need to be Imperial armies. Having the entirety of the fluff being from their point of view gets that point across rather nicely. Having half of the books not only Imperial forces, but most of them being for slight variations of the same faction just kills opponent diversity. You're more likely, as a Space Marine player, to still be playing other Space Marine opponents than opponenst they'd actually be fighting in the fluff.

Brother Coa wrote:a ) They are Human.
b ) They have awesome heroes and endless army's of both manpower and armor
c ) And beside all that - they are losing war for survival.
d ) The verity of cultures used for the Imperium is bigger then in any other sci-fi setting.

Yeah, but that's the Imperial Guard, not Space Marines. Space Marines only have the latter two apply.

DakkaDakka wrote:

My Black Templars could use an update.

The rate at which they put out new codexs is bit slow and frustrating...

Che-Vito wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:I don't see why the fluff can't be kept as is, with an additional story or two added. Similar units pooled together, and bam, you've got yourself one big old codex that doesn't need an update until the next edition.

There's no real reason outside of how GW like to release armies in each edition. One big release with an army book and several new plastic kits and (now) finecase models, followed by a month or two of backup waves to keep interest high.

One big codex wouldn't let them do this. They'd have to keep releasing kits without a book to back them up, which doesn't generate as many sales.

Interest would stay high if they released roughly 3 of these large codex(es) per year. Heaven forbid, there might be a lot of excitement over a more equal spread of armies!

I would certainly like to see variant Ork and Eldar armies, and a Lost and the Damned army...

Don't just expand Marines, expand everyone!

I'm cool with more codecies.

Split Chaos Marines into Renegade/Traitor Marines + Guard (Lost and the Damned style), Chaos Marines.

Ork: Not really sure that they need more than 1. Perhaps more special characters that screw with org chart.

Dark Eldar: ? Fine as 1 codex

Eldar: ? Fine as 1 codex (Needs a new one, IMHO).

Tau: Tau + Kroot in one book, tau empire that would combine or allow Humans, Tau, and other minor races.

Necrons: ? Fine as 1 codex.

Adeptus Mechanicus.

Nids: ? Fine as 1 codex.

So, that would add a Lost and the Damned (Xenos or Non-loyalists) along with a tau Empire (Xenos), and an Adeptus Mechanicus (quasi-loyalist). Not overwhelming to keep up with, I'd hope. I really wish GW would add more writers so that they could pound out all of the codecies with each new 40k edition.

As for Space Marines, there really isn't a need for Space Wolves, Black Templar, Dark Angels, Codex Marines, Blood Angels all having different codecies other than that's what we're accustomed too and you'd piss off the fan boys and lose a ton of sales if you did. I'm all for GW remaining open for business and making more models, so I guess it's ok.

I sometimes wonder if a lot of this is simply due to GW not having a lot of creative ideas.

They have a schedule where they release 2 codices a year, which means a lot of work on the rules and fluff (ok, maybe less work for the fluff).

It's quite difficult to come up with a whole new race: You need backstory, models, motivations, artwork, etc. It's a lot easier to simply take the known backstory of the IoM, flesh out some parts (they're uh...vikings, but in SPACE! and they hate those magic guys), throw some bits on a generic Space Marine model, and copy large amounts of stats and artwork into the new book. Voila, new codex and models for the fans to geek out over.

GW only has two unique armies, Tau and Skaven. I think they've really stretched their creative juices to get that far.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing 2-4 codices disappear entirely from the release schedule. At a release rate 2 codices/year (and in a perfect universe), a number of armies find themselves at least an edition out of date. Sometimes even two.

Consider that of the 8 5th edition codices (counting SoB) released, only 2 are xenos. 5th edition has been out for 3 years, and with 6th edition already on the horizon (2013-14 maybe) a lot of armies are going to find themselves 2 editions out of date.

Space marines def. But i rarely see any Black Templar players im the only one in my local area

black templar wrote:Space marines def. But i rarely see any Black Templar players im the only one in my local area

That makes you special, then.

''One thing I've noticed about using the army over all these years is that it doesn't perform all that differently no matter wich set of army lists I use. Not really.''
-Jervis Johnson talking about his marine army in WD341, may 2008... so he kinda agrees with the OP? O.o

TBH I think the solution to the Space Marine oversaturation is to stop giving every single marine Codex Razorbacks for the same amount of points (minus Blood Angels, but theirs are fast anyway). Have the Chapter's favoured tactics be reflected in the cost of stuff. Take Black Templars for example: Lower the cost of Land Raiders and Drop Pods, increase the cost of Rhinoes and Razorbacks. Grey Knights? Increase price of PA Transports, most of the Chapter is in Terminator Armour anyway. Blood Angels? Increase transport costs across the board, give players a reason to go jump packs.

In other words; STOP THE GODDAMN RAZORSPAM MECH-FEST ALREADY! That's the single greatest reason people grow tired of Marines, at least in my experience.

IMHO there are just too many marine armies. It allows for way too many marine armies in the field. My friend just called me from the Carolinas to tell me he brought his Death Guard to a tourney. He walked in and saw 10 players: Ork, Chaos Daemons, Tyranids, Grey Knights, Grey Knights, Grey Knights, Marines, Marines, Marines and Marines. He promptly walked out of the store. And I don't disagree with his actions. Space marines are fun to collect and fun to play, but there comes a point where they just aren't fun to fight... over and over and over. A different color sceme or variety of bits doesn't change the fact that it's just more of the same thing. Don't get me wrong I played Ultras for years and had a vast fully painted collection. Then I practically gave it away mid-4th ed. because the marine numbers were on the rise and it simply became a clash of power armour. This wan't the sole reason for my diparture from 40k but certainly one of the biggest.

And forcing those that want to play Marines into another Codex would help because...?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:And forcing those that want to play Marines into another Codex would help because...?

I'm pretty sure no one said anything about forcing others to play Marines.

If you eliminate the inherent benefits SM armies confer on people they will tend to move away from marine armies.

Maybe design the game structure so that Marines aren't the best codices. Just a suggestion.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:And forcing those that want to play Marines into another Codex would help because...?

Maybe giving some variety and not making top 5 (or 5 in top 6) codexes IoM would change something in the future at least. Now every new player is a IoM player because they are shiny, powerful and all the focus is on them. Hell, people create multiple SM armies because other codexes are (or feel) so inferior..
The focus should shift in time; not be forced right now.. Nobody in their right mind will dare to say that SM should not get multiple codexes or not be treated as kings. But wh40k is really turning into Space Marine civil war, not Space Marines vs xenos like it should be.