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Kanluwen wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

bhsman wrote:Hey, if it's true, then great. Otherwise I'm not sure why anyone continues to give Stickmonkey a fair shake after that summer of fliers business.

Probably because it's been known for awhile that plastic Stormtroopers are done--they just have been sitting on them.

You're using the word "known" quite wrongly there.

Actually, I'm not.

It's been "known" for awhile that plastic Stormtroopers are done. We saw the concept model(Stormtrooper Sergeant with a shotgun) as long ago as 2007 or 2008. Before the Guard Codex redo.
By any standard of reasonable decision making, it makes sense that it's done and I have no problems saying that they are.

I don't understand how people can think that

Spoiler:

looks more "characterful" than

Spoiler:

I hope they never do anything with the old Stormtroopers personally. They look like crap and they never fit the army's aesthetic.

I rather like the old versions.

Also:

Kanluwen wrote:

I have no problems acknowledging that people have different ideas.

What I have a problem with is that everyone assuming that what they want is what everyone should want.

Alpharius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

bhsman wrote:Hey, if it's true, then great. Otherwise I'm not sure why anyone continues to give Stickmonkey a fair shake after that summer of fliers business.

Probably because it's been known for awhile that plastic Stormtroopers are done--they just have been sitting on them.

You're using the word "known" quite wrongly there.

Actually, I'm not.

It's been "known" for awhile that plastic Stormtroopers are done. We saw the concept model(Stormtrooper Sergeant with a shotgun) as long ago as 2007 or 2008. Before the Guard Codex redo.
By any standard of reasonable decision making, it makes sense that it's done and I have no problems saying that they are.

I don't understand how people can think that

Spoiler:

looks more "characterful" than

Spoiler:

I hope they never do anything with the old Stormtroopers personally. They look like crap and they never fit the army's aesthetic.

I rather like the old versions.

That's fine. I don't. I had some when I started my Guard army, and I hated them even then. When the Kasrkin released my FLGS at the time bought my old metal stormtroopers back from me and put the money towards Kasrkin.

Makes me wish I had the old FLGS still, as they'd likely let me trade my Kasrkin for plastics...

Also:

Kanluwen wrote:

I have no problems acknowledging that people have different ideas.

What I have a problem with is that everyone assuming that what they want is what everyone should want.

Fun fact: I originally was going to put something in there saying about "I'm aware of the irony that can crop up from this, so don't even bother quoting it, Alpharius!".

I should also add that those 'old' Stormtroopers in any modern context look terrible. They don't look like they have carapace armor, they don't look like they're specialist troops or anything like that.
They just look like they're generic scifi troops.

Right, still:

Kanluwen wrote:I have no problems acknowledging that people have different ideas.

What I have a problem with is that everyone assuming that what they want is what everyone should want.

Kanluwen wrote:
I should also add that those 'old' Stormtroopers in any modern context look terrible. They don't look like they have carapace armor, they don't look like they're specialist troops or anything like that.
They just look like they're generic scifi troops.

Generic sci fi is pretty advanced in terms of 40k

methinks imperial guard players are very easy to please these days...

"but look! he has slightly bigger armorplates, and a cable to his backpack! thats amazing! take my money!"

I like the old stormtroopers. They have tons of gear, spec-ops looking helmets, and serious looking guns. It also does not matter if they match aesthetic because stormtroopers all come from the same regiment that is distinct in itself.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The Kasrkin are awesome. I own 65 of the damned things, and they're the bestest greatest Storm Troopiest Storm Troopers ever made.

70 of them and some of my favourite miniatures too.

Plastic ones would be very nice. As would the Medusa, save me buying it from Forge World.

I think the old ones look great. They have that WWI chemical warfare, trench fighter feel. Their hotshots look deadly, and overall seem separate from being just another Cadian unit. Why do you want more Kasrkins? They already exist. If you want Kasrkins, buy Kasrkins.

I (and from what I can see, others) want stormtroopers. If we wanted Kasrkins, we would have bought the kits they already have.

alphaomega wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:The Kasrkin are awesome. I own 65 of the damned things, and they're the bestest greatest Storm Troopiest Storm Troopers ever made.

70 of them and some of my favourite miniatures too.

Plastic ones would be very nice. As would the Medusa, save me buying it from Forge World.

Same here - I'd love for there to be a proper, good looking, plastic Medusa model!

That would probably be the thing that would get me to get my guard army up to speed in 5th...

Las wrote:I think the old ones look great. They have that WWI chemical warfare, trench fighter feel. Their hotshots look deadly, and overall separate from being just another Cadian unit. Why do you want more Kasrkins? They already exist. If you want Kasrkins, buy Kasrykins.

I (and from what I can see, others) want stormtroopers. If we wanted Kasrkins, we would have bought the kits they already have.

Oh of course. Why Should GW make plastic GK? If we wanted GK, we would have bought the kits they already have.

Should I provide more examples?

Plus it is also ironic that you can still buy the old storms
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440248a&prodId=prod810031a

This rumor is about an update on stormtroopers not kasrkins. Are you surprised that some of us dont want our stormtroopers to look exactly like kasrkins?

Im not saying the kasrkins dont deserve a plastic set. If GW decided to do that, fine, cool, great. But this is about stormtroopers and Im merely stating that some of us want them to retain a separate look considering theyre, you know, a separate unit.

Las wrote:I think the old ones look great. They have that WWI chemical warfare, trench fighter feel.

Uh no they don't. They look nothing like "WWI chemical warfare, trench fighters".

Their hotshots look deadly

No they don't. They look like Lasguns with a longer barrel, with the tips painted gold.

and overall feel separate from being just another Cadian unit. Why do you want more Kasrkins? They already exist. If you want Kasrkins, buy Kasrkins.

I (and from what I can see, others) want stormtroopers. If we wanted Kasrkins, we would have bought the kits they already have.

If you want stormtroopers, buy stormtroopers. They already exist. They're still for sale, and they're actually cheaper than Kasrkin for a 'squad' of 5($19.75 for the old Stormtroopers which is a box of the Veteran Sergeant and 4 hellgun equipped troopers. $14 for Special Weapon packs of 2 though).

Las wrote:This rumor is about an update on stormtroopers not kasrkins. Are you surprised that some of us dont want our stormtroopers to look exactly like kasrkins?

Im not saying the kasrkins dont deserve a plastic set. If GW decided to do that, fine, cool, great. But this is about stormtroopers and Im merely stating that some of us want them to retain a separate look considering theyre, you know, a separate unit.

I was merely pointing out the irony in your post about "if they want X, then they should buy X" which is clearly possible for the old storm troopers

Also I bolded something I thought was funny since storms and kasrkins are, you know, the same unit game wise

Kanluwen wrote:
Uh no they don't. They look nothing like "WWI chemical warfare, trench fighters".

Their hotshots look deadly

No they don't. They look like Lasguns with a longer barrel, with the tips painted gold.

Right, uhm, as Alpharius has been doing, Im going to point you toward your own post...

Kanluwen wrote:I have no problems acknowledging that people have different ideas.What I have a problem with is that everyone assuming that what they want is what everyone should want.

Also, notice the emphasis in the following quote

Las wrote:I think the old ones look great. They have that WWI chemical warfare, trench fighter feel.

You cant just say "no it doesnt," you can say "No, I dont think they do," and maybe some form of discussion can continue.

Kanluwen wrote:If you want stormtroopers, buy stormtroopers. They already exist. They're still for sale, and they're actually cheaper than Kasrkin for a 'squad' of 5($19.75 for the old Stormtroopers which is a box of the Veteran Sergeant and 4 hellgun equipped troopers. $14 for Special Weapon packs of 2 though).

Thanks, tips. This thread is about the rumor of new stormtroopers, not new kasrkins. Cant you see why I would be rooting for the stormtroopers to therefore, not resemble kasrkins? As kasrkins arent what I want from my box of stormtroopers?

If you want new plastic Kasrkins, great, when a rumor thread pops up declaring that very thing on the horizon, I can tell you I wont be there declaring that they should look like stormtroopers.

kenshin620 wrote:
I was merely pointing out the irony in your post about "if they want X, then they should buy X" which is clearly possible for the old storm troopers

Maybe I should have said "if they want X, they should buy X, or wait for new X to be released, instead of insisting that Y become X"

Though I will admit I was mistaken, for some reason I had it in my head that Kasrkins had separate rules. My bad.

Las wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Uh no they don't. They look nothing like "WWI chemical warfare, trench fighters".

Their hotshots look deadly

No they don't. They look like Lasguns with a longer barrel, with the tips painted gold.

Right, uhm, as Alpharius has been doing, Im going to point you toward your own post...

Kanluwen wrote:I have no problems acknowledging that people have different ideas.What I have a problem with is that everyone assuming that what they want is what everyone should want.

And as I'm going to point you towards: GW is the one doing this. It's not just "what I want so that's what needs to be done", it's what they have been doing with the Imperial Guard line as they've been redoing it.
Look at the Imperial Guard line.
Ogryn--they've been given Cadian styled armor, Cadian styled fatigues, etc.
Ratlings--given Cadian styled fatigues as well. Don't believe me? Look at the cut of the tunic. It folds in exactly the same place as the Cadian's tunics do.
Master of Ordnance--Cadian styled fatigues, armor is cut in the same style as Cadian armor and given embellishment reminiscent of the Death Korps General.
Primaris Psyker--Cadian cut fatigues, breastplate done in the same vein as the Master of Ordnance.
Heck, even the crew chiefs manning the Heavy Bolters in the waist of the are wearing armor that looks remarkably similar to Cadian gear.

Also, notice the emphasis in the following quote

Las wrote:I think the old ones look great. They have that WWI chemical warfare, trench fighter feel.

You cant just say "no it doesnt," you can say "No, I dont think they do," and maybe some form of discussion can continue.

You can think that the old ones look great all you want. I have no problem with that, you like them and I like the Kasrkin. That's fine and dandy.
You're purposely clipping out part of what I said to try to prove a point. I said that they do not have a WWI chemical warfare or trench fighter feel.

Why did I say that? Because nothing about them harkens to WWI trench fighters--the armor is too compacted, and it's clearly designed to be worn as a composite chestplate.
The only thing that harkens to WWI and chemical warfare are the gas masks on some of the figures, and those style gas masks are still in use today.
Why? Because there's basically two kinds of gas masks you can make that actually function.
The classic 'bug eye' where you have the filter and two eye lenses on the mask and the 'faceplate' style you see today where it's a large rounded "visor" essentially that allows for much much better vision capabilities.

Kanluwen wrote:If you want stormtroopers, buy stormtroopers. They already exist. They're still for sale, and they're actually cheaper than Kasrkin for a 'squad' of 5($19.75 for the old Stormtroopers which is a box of the Veteran Sergeant and 4 hellgun equipped troopers. $14 for Special Weapon packs of 2 though).

Thanks, tips. This thread is about the rumor of new stormtroopers, not new kasrkins. Cant you see why I would be rooting for the stormtroopers to therefore, not resemble kasrkins? As kasrkins arent what I want from my box of stormtroopers?

I should take this chance to say that I didn't say "I want new Kasrkin!".
My exact quote, uncut and unedited, from the first page.

Kanluwen wrote:Last concept I saw of the plastic Stormtroopers had them in the vein of the Stormtrooper Chimera Commander that FW sells.

Which is to say, thankfully, that they look very similar to Kasrkin.

If you want new plastic Kasrkins, great, when a rumor thread pops up declaring that very thing on the horizon, I can tell you I wont be there declaring that they should look like stormtroopers.

Heh. I can tell you that if plastic Kasrkin were released, the least of the complaints will be "HOW DARE THEY MAKE PLASTIC KASRKIN!".

It will be "WTF CODEX CADIA!".

I think its important that the Stormtroopers get away from looking like Cadians... Karsikins are Cadia's home grown elites... my gripe is that Stormtroopers shouldn't look planet specific. IG have really moved away from their distinctly Imperial feel. The units that give the IG that characteristic are some of the most marginalized units in the army. Stormtroopers are least so, but that aspect of them coming from some where in the heart of the Imperium, rather than being raised on the local planet has been pretty much forgotten and not represented. In as much that a space marine looks exotic next to a guardsmen... to a similar degree so should stormtroopers. I think the Vostroyen give more of the intergalactic Imperium vibe than Karsikins... but I think something better suited could be imagined as well.

aka_mythos wrote:I think its important that the Stormtroopers get away from looking like Cadians... Karsikins are Cadia's home grown elites...

Agreed, to a point. Kasrkin are Cadia's hometown heroes, but right now Cadians are considered to be the 'standard' for Imperial Guardsmen. And when the Cadians need Stormtroopers, they field the Kasrkin.

my gripe is that Stormtroopers shouldn't look planet specific.

Agreed, wholeheartedly.

IG have really moved away from their distinctly Imperial feel.

I actually think that's not a bad thing myself, but I can understand why you want it returned.

The units that give the IG that characteristic are some of the most marginalized units in the army.

Again, I agree with this to a point. In the case of Ogryn, it makes sense that they kind of 'adopt' the characteristics of the regiments they serve with. They're supposed to be fairly imitative with a Bone 'Ead in charge.

Stormtroopers are least so, but that aspect of them coming from some where in the heart of the Imperium, rather than being raised on the local planet has been pretty much forgotten and not represented.

Considering I can't think of a time where they really "came from the heart of the Imperium" I have to disagree. Stormtroopers are raised by the Schola Progenium on worlds which range from hellish deathworlds to civilized parities of humanity at its peak, and the Progenium most definitely is an Imperial institution, but the Stormtroopers themselves are part of the Munitorum. When we get down to it, all their equipment will likely be done in a 'local' pattern based on where they're being brought in from wouldn't you think?

In as much that a space marine looks exotic next to a guardsmen... to a similar degree so should stormtroopers.

They should look exotic, but not so exotic that they don't fit in with the setting.

I think the Vostroyen give more of the intergalactic Imperium vibe than Kasrkins... but I think something better suited could be imagined as well.

I think the Vostroyans only do that because Blanche had a hand in designing the Vostroyans, and he's always been big on the kind of 'gothic' aspects of the Imperial Guard if that makes any sense. A lot of his artwork after the Vostroyans released also featured the Vostroyans or Guardsmen patterned to look like them, and most of it was meant to show generic unnamed regiments with him given free reign to do so.

I think the big problem will be that if this truly is a combined veteran/stormtrooper kit--then there's no avoiding a Kasrkin or Cadian feel.

Kanluwen wrote:
Why did I say that? Because nothing about them harkens to WWI trench fighters--the armor is too compacted, and it's clearly designed to be worn as a composite chestplate.
The only thing that harkens to WWI and chemical warfare are the gas masks on some of the figures, and those style gas masks are still in use today.
Why? Because there's basically two kinds of gas masks you can make that actually function.
The classic 'bug eye' where you have the filter and two eye lenses on the mask and the 'faceplate' style you see today where it's a large rounded "visor" essentially that allows for much much better vision capabilities.

Guh, youre being quite pedantic.

Go into your 5th ed codex to the Stormtrooper page and look at the artwork. Then look at this. Do you see where similarities can be made? How, in my opinion, I could see connection in influence when it comes to artistic style which matches up with my own personal taste? I realize its not exactly the same (obviously!) but your's isn't the impression I get from it, and I like it. If you dont agree, fine, but dont tell me my interpretation is wrong. Its insulting and frankly a terrible way to go about discussion.


Edit: link doesnt seem to be working so....

Yeah... no. Look, I'm not quite as pedantic as The Kan about this whole thing, but those older Stormies look nothing like the WWI guy. GW already made WWI guys - they're called Steel Legion and the Death Korp of Krieg.


I dislike those older Storm Trooper models because they look 'puffy', as in they are badly sculpted. The actual imagery that they have is fine - there are lots of pieces of artwork out there that use that design and they look great - but the models themselves have too many curves and not enough sharp angles. That's why the Kasrkin are amazing - they're clean cut with hard edges.

I'm sure if the old Stormies were redone in plastic a lot of those sculpting issues would vanish, and they'd look fine - and honestly they're proper Stormies, in that they look like no other regiment because Stormies aren't part of any regiment, they're a completely separate special forces from a completely separate organisation, the Scholar Progenium.

But if we're just talking about the models as they stand now, the Kasrikin are just superior (even if they are up-armoured Cadians).

Again, im not saying they look exactly like them. But I get that feel from them, and its part of the reason I like them, as I said. Its not the current storm sculpts I am defending per se, more the established aesthetic. I want the sculpts to be updated in plastic kits, I just want them to keep the overall look, it's not a complicated concept.

And really? Nothing like that pic? Also, do I have to point out the fact that theyre called "stormtroopers." There is obvious influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtroopers

These are also called Stormtroopers and look nothing like them, so let's not have a "it's all in the name" style argument.

In any case, Stormtroopers (or in the case of 40K, Storm Troopers) is more a description of their role.

Getting a little tense around these parts...

So, how about a plastic colossus? Wouldn't mind a couple of them for my army!

If the Stormtrooper/Veterans thing is true, then my natural assumption would be they'd be based on the Kasrkin as they look more like Cadians, thus the Vet part of the kit would fit in more.

Not saying I wouldn't mind updated versions of the older metal Stormtroopers, but in my mind, it seems most likely they'll go the Kasrkin route.

Of course I like the Kasrkin as well, so I really don't mind which way they go.

I don't care what the frakkin stormtroopers look like, I want sprues of meltaguns and shotguns and demo charges

I just hope they do the griffon. Thou I also hope that they don't release some cool vehicles, then change the 6th ed rules to scale them back.

kenshin620 wrote:


Oh of course. Why Should GW make plastic GK? If we wanted GK, we would have bought the kits they already have.

Should I provide more examples?

Because the old GK models didn't provide for the range of new wargear options available in the new codex.

If they give me plastic Kasrkin and make them cheaper then $41 and I'll be a happy camper.

Can we wait till we see them to argue how they should have looked?

For all we know they're plastic Vostreans.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:For all we know they're plastic Vostreans.

Oh god, GW would have all my money forever if they made plastic Vostroyans.

terrainguy wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:For all we know they're plastic Vostreans.

Oh god, GW would have all my money forever if they made plastic Vostroyans.

Ha ha ha for me it´s like 3 years too late. I almost started Vostoryans until I checked the prices. But on the other hand some Clam Shell helmeted Storm troopers would be nice or even some head only for HWT conversions.

M.