Do you feel 40K is "lacking"

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Pouncey**

Iur_tae_mont wrote:
Pouncey wrote:Good GOD. I've been letting off spores all these years, that lie in the ground and occasionally become more people! What the hell's the thing between my legs for, then?

Alligator Bait?

Hm... I don't think there are any alligators around here. No crocodiles either.

Sounds kinda painful, though. Like that time when- well, nevermind about that.

**CpatTom**

Pouncey wrote:
nomotog wrote:
warpcrafter wrote:
nomotog wrote:
warpcrafter wrote:It's because the vast majority of wargamers are male nerds with an underdeveloped sense of the female identity, hence the lack of any reasonable female archetypes. Of course, this comes from an Ork player, and Orks are essentially genderless.

Can you actually call orks genderless? Well ya they reproduce by spores, but you would be hard pressed to find a more masculine army then the orks.

Their physical form is a result of genetic engineering, not evolution. Their tough attitude is probably also a result of their artificial genes. They have no conception of male or female archetypes. If they are aware of gender differences in other species I'm sure they consider it to be meaningless. That's why I like Orks so much, they have no angst.

They are a male archetype though. In world they might not think of themselves as male. (They do call themselves boyz though.) They also reproduce like males. You could call them genderless, but I would label them as a mono gendered race of males.

You could do a whole thread on gender and sex in 40k.

Good GOD. I've been letting off spores all these years, that lie in the ground and occasionally become more people! What the hell's the thing between my legs for, then?

Historically that is how a male reproduced. Just direct spores on fertile earth. Leave. Repeat. Orks are under evolved middle school males.

**KilroyKiljoy**

Pouncey wrote:
Iur_tae_mont wrote:
Pouncey wrote:Good GOD. I've been letting off spores all these years, that lie in the ground and occasionally become more people! What the hell's the thing between my legs for, then?

Alligator Bait?

Hm... I don't think there are any alligators around here. No crocodiles either.

Sounds kinda painful, though. Like that time when- well, nevermind about that.

Story time?

**Pouncey**

CpatTom wrote:
Pouncey wrote:
nomotog wrote:
warpcrafter wrote:
nomotog wrote:
warpcrafter wrote:It's because the vast majority of wargamers are male nerds with an underdeveloped sense of the female identity, hence the lack of any reasonable female archetypes. Of course, this comes from an Ork player, and Orks are essentially genderless.

Can you actually call orks genderless? Well ya they reproduce by spores, but you would be hard pressed to find a more masculine army then the orks.

Their physical form is a result of genetic engineering, not evolution. Their tough attitude is probably also a result of their artificial genes. They have no conception of male or female archetypes. If they are aware of gender differences in other species I'm sure they consider it to be meaningless. That's why I like Orks so much, they have no angst.

They are a male archetype though. In world they might not think of themselves as male. (They do call themselves boyz though.) They also reproduce like males. You could call them genderless, but I would label them as a mono gendered race of males.

You could do a whole thread on gender and sex in 40k.

Good GOD. I've been letting off spores all these years, that lie in the ground and occasionally become more people! What the hell's the thing between my legs for, then?

Historically that is how a male reproduced. Just direct spores on fertile earth. Leave. Repeat. Orks are under evolved middle school males.

I learned something today, then. ^_^ Unfortunately, the day just rolled over a half hour ago in my timezone... But that could be good, because it means I've got the rest of the day to relax.

Before I go to bed, though, I have to ask... What's the female's role in this reproductive process? ^_^

**CpatTom**

Historically? Or from the point of view of the enlightened man of today? (Or is there even a difference)

**Pouncey**

CpatTom wrote:Historically? Or from the point of view of the enlightened man of today? (Or is there even a difference)

In the days where we reproduced with spores.

**Void__Dragon**

You mean we don't now?

**motyak**

I just stand near fertile earth and scratch myself a bit. 2 days later bam, little kays
...cos of my spores

**CpatTom**

Pouncey wrote:
CpatTom wrote:Historically? Or from the point of view of the enlightened man of today? (Or is there even a difference)

In the days where we reproduced with spores.

It is an analogy

**Pouncey**

CpatTom wrote:
Pouncey wrote:
CpatTom wrote:Historically? Or from the point of view of the enlightened man of today? (Or is there even a difference)

In the days where we reproduced with spores.

It is an analogy

The freaky part is that I clicked on this thread before you posted this, re-read your previous post, and wondered if it was a metaphor for exactly that.

The REALLY freaky part is that I used to have similar things happen on forums with great frequency, only with more specificity and less reasonable ways of knowing what had just been posted. This is the first time in a few years.

**Panzerboy26**

Sanon wrote:Speaking on the cost, and not wanting to include female miniatures with their varied male.

They have many numerous repeat models in HQ choices, with the only difference being a weapon or two. Not to mention the varied chances to add a female HQ unit.

It wouldn't harm the company to make at least one female choice. A named HQ techpriest so adeptus mechanicus armies could be made, a female commissar lord, a female general etc... but they aren't made, and if they were, they'd sell well on their uniqueness alone.

Pouncey wrote:

In any case, there's always Eldar. ^_^

Kinda, they have one female HQ choice (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440239a&prodId=prod1060034, which has clown feet, and looks like it belongs in a 80's music video), though I could go to WHFB for a farseer conversion. And their only viable none HQ female choice is Howling Banshee.

Yeah, the Howling Banshee Phoenix Lord does have some crazy hair going on. Of course you have to remember that GW's not really guilty of being 'out of touch' with the model, as I wanna say it came out in 1993-94, and big hair wasn't totally dead yet by then.

Plenty of Farseers in the fluff are female. Many of the models could easily BE female, as they generally wear helmets and robes.

Now, if your demand is especially for 'obviously female models which are obviously female', the torsos on either every 3rd or every 4th Guardian on the sprue is female. I've got well over 100 guardians, and I'm fully confident that at least 20 of them are females, if not 30, which is more than enough to field most army's complements of Guardians as 100 percent female. Every single Howling Banshee model is 'obviously' female. Guardian Torsos could be used to make Dire Avengers, Shining Spears, and Guardian Jetbikes 'obviously' female. Also, I want to say that 3 of the 6 Harlequins you get in the unit box are female.

Pretty easy to say that your tank crews are all female.

So there it is, it'd take a bit of doing and bit-swapping, but without more modeling required than torso-swapping, plus maybe converting a Reaper or WHFB model to a Farseer, you can field a 100 percent female army with mostly all GW parts.

**Sanon**

The thing with Eldar and being or not being female, is that we both have representations of what the females look like, and assurance that their armor is damn near skin tight. The "you wouldn't be able to tell the difference" argument doesn't fly with Eldar.

As far as target demographic, it's a demographic that would actually be more likely to buy female units than the various other male demographics out there. It's kind of like saying MMO's are targeted towards a male demographic, so they wouldn't want females. Yes, it's targetted to a demographic much the same as 40k, and most of the female characters, are male.

**nomotog**

Pouncey wrote:Good GOD. I've been letting off spores all these years, that lie in the ground and occasionally become more people! What the hell's the thing between my legs for, then?

It's your spore pouch. Your thinking a little to literal here. Orks leave behind there seed to impregnates the earth. Sowing there wild oats so to speak. It's a very male way of reproduction.

On the other hand. SMs get injected with seed that they then carry well it matures in there body to give birth to a new marine. That's a very female way to reproduce, so we actually already have female SMs.

I'm taking a mythology class, so that explains the craziness.

**Sanon**

nomotog wrote:
Pouncey wrote:Good GOD. I've been letting off spores all these years, that lie in the ground and occasionally become more people! What the hell's the thing between my legs for, then?

It's your spore pouch. Your thinking a little to literal here. Orks leave behind there seed to impregnates the earth. Sowing there wild oats so to speak. It's a very male way of reproduction.

On the other hand. SMs get injected with seed that they then carry well it matures in there body to give birth to a new marine. That's a very female way to reproduce, so we actually already have female SMs.

I'm taking a mythology class, so that explains the craziness.

A very female way of reproducing is making life.

The gene-seed doesn't make a life, it alters the bodies make up to be more condusive to war and fighting.

Honestly, with all the warp-ery that went on with the primarchs, having one that's a female would fit quite well. Here is what GW does.

That head of the SoB that disappeared into the warp years ago? She comes back with a missing Primarch, who was a female. She was kept in secret for being the only none male-primarch of the emperor. From here, GW can un-do all the horrible things they did to SoB (like how they're down to a handful now) and have this new primarch start up a new chapter, with the SoB as it's base.

This way Matt Ward won't be tempted to destroy them.

**ObliviousBlueCaboose**

I'm down with on the sole principle it upsets matt ward. lol

**nomotog**

Your thinking too literal.

I still can't see anything more feminine then carrying a seed. That's another thing they call it a seed, not a splice, not a mutation. A seed implies new life the creation of new life because when you become a SM it's a completely new life. The see matures inside you and you give birth to your self.

It gets quite crazy quick, but you can look at SMs as a triadic goddess. Scouts are the virgin form, battle brothers are the mother form, then the dreadnoughts are the crone form.

Out of all the armies, I would actually call the SM the most feminine.

**SabrX**

There's a few potential all-female armies in 40k. Aside from Sisters of Battle, there's Daemonettes of Slaanesh and Dark Eldar Wyches. Eldar have a few "booby" torsos. It's quite possible to build an all female-Eldar army. I've seen some Tau players use Eldar female torsos for a female Fire Warrior conversion. As many already posted, body armor and pants generally hides female curves. A while back, I did a slight female IG conversion:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/286211.page

There are also 3rd party companies that sell female heads.

**im2randomghgh**

Sanon wrote:One thing that's kept me away from 40K as a hobby, aside from the larger initial "fee" to get invested into it compared to other Wargames, is there isn't really an army that I feel is "right" for me from a setting standpoint.

Honestly, it's the lack of females. If I want to field female units, my options are either get really good with green stuff, field an army of really expensive, really pissed off, walking fetishes, or be space drow with wild and crazy hair. Neither one of those appeal to me from a fluff standpoint, or a gameplay standpoint. I tend to play the protagonist factions, or at least neutral.

Is it so bad to merely want to run a female IG regiment? To have a female Tau cadre? To really, have -any- female characters aside from the one the Eldar have, the two the Dark Eldar have, the one the Tau have, and the -I'm not going to talk about it- the Space Nuns have?

I feel it's a barrier, one that has no reason to be there, and it's not the only one. Why do we still get things styled after things that stopped being "in" in the 80's? The Daemonetts are an excellent example of both these points. Mohawks and skeletal faces. They both look nothing like fluff portrays them, and have a style hearkening back to a time when Ghost Busters was culturally relevant. GW just seems wholly out of touch with current trends, clinging to what used to work and refusing to add anything new to the setting.

I'd honestly dump all my money into a full out Imperial Guard regiment or Tau Cadre if I had some female options (and know others who would do the same), but I don't, so am putting that money to PP because not only does GW fail at offering variety, they succeed at killing off and utterlly destroying the only female option they had with -anything- they do with the SoB.

Well Firewarriors are gender neutral: Chances are inside the armour half those Tau are female.

If you make the -only- unmasked tau on the field Shadowsun, you could in theory have a 100% female tau force.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

nomotog wrote:Your thinking too literal.

I still can't see anything more feminine then carrying a seed. That's another thing they call it a seed, not a splice, not a mutation. A seed implies new life the creation of new life because when you become a SM it's a completely new life. The see matures inside you and you give birth to your self.

It gets quite crazy quick, but you can look at SMs as a triadic goddess. Scouts are the virgin form, battle brothers are the mother form, then the dreadnoughts are the crone form.

Out of all the armies, I would actually call the SM the most feminine.

I dare you to tell that to Lysander, who obviously has balls bigger than your face.

**CpatTom**

Pouncey wrote:
CpatTom wrote:
Pouncey wrote:
CpatTom wrote:Historically? Or from the point of view of the enlightened man of today? (Or is there even a difference)

In the days where we reproduced with spores.

It is an analogy

The freaky part is that I clicked on this thread before you posted this, re-read your previous post, and wondered if it was a metaphor for exactly that.

The REALLY freaky part is that I used to have similar things happen on forums with great frequency, only with more specificity and less reasonable ways of knowing what had just been posted. This is the first time in a few years.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

nomotog wrote:Your thinking too literal.

I still can't see anything more feminine then carrying a seed. That's another thing they call it a seed, not a splice, not a mutation. A seed implies new life the creation of new life because when you become a SM it's a completely new life. The see matures inside you and you give birth to your self.

It gets quite crazy quick, but you can look at SMs as a triadic goddess. Scouts are the virgin form, battle brothers are the mother form, then the dreadnoughts are the crone form.

Out of all the armies, I would actually call the SM the most feminine.

I like this. I will now go about calling all the Space Marines little girly men.

**im2randomghgh**

nomotog wrote:Your thinking too literal.

I still can't see anything more feminine then carrying a seed. That's another thing they call it a seed, not a splice, not a mutation. A seed implies new life the creation of new life because when you become a SM it's a completely new life. The see matures inside you and you give birth to your self.

It gets quite crazy quick, but you can look at SMs as a triadic goddess. Scouts are the virgin form, battle brothers are the mother form, then the dreadnoughts are the crone form.

Out of all the armies, I would actually call the SM the most feminine.

Also, men carry seed, women carry eggs :$

I just noticed that.

Unless all astartes are preggo

**RustyKnight**

Belexar wrote:You know, now that we're speaking of female models, let me say I totally HATE the new Daemonette models. They're hideous. I know what your'e going to say, that they're daemons of Slannesh and stuff, but read this:

Lexicanum wrote:Daemonettes appear as both beautiful and repulsive to those who look upon them. Their bewitching opal eyes and enchanting aura veil their androgynous features and grotesque claws, revealing an alluring appearance the beholder will always consider the epitome of beauty.

The previous models were far better and actually went according to the fluff. Beautiful women with huge claw things. Thet's (kinda) how they were and how they should have stayed. the new ones are just... Ugly.

That quote specifically states that the daemonettes have androgynous features. It's the eyes and the aura of the daemonette that makes them appear beautiful (both of which are shorthand for chaos magic tomfoolery). Given that warp magic won't be affecting us, it makes sense to have hideous daemonettes.

**Pouncey**

im2randomghgh wrote:
nomotog wrote:Your thinking too literal.

I still can't see anything more feminine then carrying a seed. That's another thing they call it a seed, not a splice, not a mutation. A seed implies new life the creation of new life because when you become a SM it's a completely new life. The see matures inside you and you give birth to your self.

It gets quite crazy quick, but you can look at SMs as a triadic goddess. Scouts are the virgin form, battle brothers are the mother form, then the dreadnoughts are the crone form.

Out of all the armies, I would actually call the SM the most feminine.

Also, men carry seed, women carry eggs :$

I just noticed that.

Unless all astartes are preggo

What else did you think the bulky armor was for, if not to hide their swollen figure? It's not like form-fitting armor with the same protectiveness doesn't exist, as evidenced by the Sisters of Battle - albeit, I'll admit they came into existence many millennia after the Space Marines.

**im2randomghgh**

Pouncey wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
nomotog wrote:Your thinking too literal.

I still can't see anything more feminine then carrying a seed. That's another thing they call it a seed, not a splice, not a mutation. A seed implies new life the creation of new life because when you become a SM it's a completely new life. The see matures inside you and you give birth to your self.

It gets quite crazy quick, but you can look at SMs as a triadic goddess. Scouts are the virgin form, battle brothers are the mother form, then the dreadnoughts are the crone form.

Out of all the armies, I would actually call the SM the most feminine.

Also, men carry seed, women carry eggs :$

I just noticed that.

Unless all astartes are preggo

What else did you think the bulky armor was for, if not to hide their swollen figure? It's not like form-fitting armor with the same protectiveness doesn't exist, as evidenced by the Sisters of Battle - albeit, I'll admit they came into existence many millennia after the Space Marines.

Custodes have form fitting armour too, that actually offers MORE protection.

Now that I think about it, the astartes seem to have drawn the short straw

**nomotog**

im2randomghgh wrote:
nomotog wrote:Your thinking too literal.

I still can't see anything more feminine then carrying a seed. That's another thing they call it a seed, not a splice, not a mutation. A seed implies new life the creation of new life because when you become a SM it's a completely new life. The see matures inside you and you give birth to your self.

It gets quite crazy quick, but you can look at SMs as a triadic goddess. Scouts are the virgin form, battle brothers are the mother form, then the dreadnoughts are the crone form.

Out of all the armies, I would actually call the SM the most feminine.

Also, men carry seed, women carry eggs :$

I just noticed that.

Unless all astartes are preggo

Pregnancy is a big part of SMs. You put your seed in them then they get bigger and swell. It gets crazy fast like I said.

Another thing to peek at is how feminine are the sisters of battle. Yes they are all women, but they seem to embody male aspects more then female ones. A living saint dies and gets reborn in a manor resembling a dieing and reborn god. Where a male god will die (often torn apart) and then with the help of the goddess be born again. A living saint can die, then with the help of the emperor be reborn. This has the living saint playing the male role well the emperor plays the role of the goddess. Did I mention how crazy things get?

**Elector**

How do you know that the Tau even reproduce the same way as humans (and thus have similar ideas of men and women biology, obvious enough to recognize one on a 28mm model).

But really, if there were to be clearly female models for armies where the gear isn't body-hugging armor, their chest would be so intensely over-sized that they would be labelled as fetishes or over-sexualized.

This is a strange reason to not be into 40k. If it matters that much to you, green stuff it. But really, of the 5 armies where a female model makes sense given the current fluff, 4 of them have those models regularly (Eldar, Dark Eldar (entire units are women for both sides, and mildly Daemons, but are they really women, technically?). For IG....well, either the flak jacket would cover any obvious...features, or you'd be Catachan, and it's a bunch of women in tank tops.

Have you seen modern wargear? You can't clearly tell a woman at a glance if they're in full kit, that's not the point of the uniform.

**Grey Templar**

Thats the thing with Tau.

They do have Male and Female genders, but the actual method of reproduction hasn't been fully explored by Xenologists. All they have is that they know that the slit on the forehead is involved somehow.

**BeefCakeSoup**

Tau reproduce like crabs on modern day earth.

I base this on speculation and dietary patterns.

lol

**Grey Templar**

Dietary patterns?

Explain please

**nomotog**

Grey Templar wrote:Thats the thing with Tau.

They do have Male and Female genders, but the actual method of reproduction hasn't been fully explored by Xenologists. All they have is that they know that the slit on the forehead is involved somehow.

It is? Are we sure it's not just a suggestive image thing?

**Grey Templar**

That is what Xenology says.

Its also the only stuff said on the subject thusfar and as such is correct until something to the contrary is written.