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Another item of discussion that fits in here as well is scratch built. I touched on it earlier in the thread, but an curious as to what people think. As an ork/Iguard player I do often come up with ideas for completely original stuff that I make using nothing but plasticard and green stuff that has no GW or third party items what so ever. Ork buggies have been a favorite of mine over the years. Does anyone see a reason that these pr other original self built models should not be used in any circumstance?

So long as an effort is made to have them fit into the 40K design ethos. Plonk down some green army men and I will not be impressed. Put down some well converted [insert model company here] figures that look the business, fair enough.

Personally I really dislike the great coat troops that many people are using for their guard army - I would not really be happy playing a game against someone using them, while I would be happy playing WHFB against someone using the Mantic or Gamezone undead (as they look awesome), just as I would be fine playing against some of the Pig Iron figure ranges, etc.

I understand that personal opinion plays a big part in this discussion. I personally like the WF Greatcoat guys and dislike the Pig Iron stuff. The Mantic minis are beautiful though, but I know people who hate them as well. I do not believe that this is ever going to be resolved to everyones satisfaction. There are even people who do not like GW minis even though they still play the games. So no one is ever going to be completely happy.

If size and LOS are correct, as well as (roughly) WYSIWYG, I'm all for a good looking and thgemed army.

Skinnereal wrote:If size and LOS are correct, as well as (roughly) WYSIWYG, I'm all for a good looking and thgemed army.

#

This.
as long as the model meets the requirements of the game there should be no restrictions upon its use in said game. ^_^

As long as the miniature represents the unit its supposed to I have no problem with it.

Shepherd23 wrote:Another item of discussion that fits in here as well is scratch built. I touched on it earlier in the thread, but an curious as to what people think.

If it looks like what it's supposed to be, is armed WYSIWYG and is the right size (painted would be nice too), then not only would I not mind, I'd rather play against it than another of the same-old GW models. I feel this way whether it's Scratchbuilt, Modded from other kits, half-GW/half-other or whatever. In GW's defense, they have come a loooong way in terms of kits with options to make them unique, but it's still the same armies with the same kits with the same....

SilverMK2 wrote:So long as an effort is made to have them fit into the 40K design ethos. Plonk down some green army men and I will not be impressed. Put down some well converted [insert model company here] figures that look the business, fair enough.
Personally I really dislike the great coat troops that many people are using for their guard army.

A matter of taste I think. I'm not terribly imprssed with the models, but I'd be fine playing against WGF Greacoats. I'd be even more impressed if they had modded weapons, but they are human troopers with a basic rifle that'll pass as IG, so either is fine with me. I just bought a platoon's worth of Shockforce not-Cadian "Megacom troopers" so who am I to judge?

I'm like to see one of the 7 'no' voters explain why they think that even friendly GW games need to be pure bred.

Most tourneys I have been in do not care, and from my own experiences, most people who have been around a while have other models/conversions etc in their armies.

What GW wants has little to no bearing on tourneys here. Maybe if they still ran GTs, and supported local tourneys in some way.

Hell, I wanted to do a necron army as all daleks, but couldn't find that large a number of daleks.

I don't see why not, if they are the right scale and look roughly relevant to the race or whatever it's meant to be then that's fine with me. I think it's massively unreasonable if someone has gone all that effort to make a truly outstanding army thats totally unique only for some to turn their nose up

Eilif wrote: I'd be even more impressed if they had modded weapons, (...)

WGF Greatcoats with Pig Iron heads and their weapons completely filed off and replaced with GW lasguns...

Not exactly a very original conversion but I'm quite proud of them...

P.S. - And I filled off the crappy plastic "base" that the WGF troopers come with so that they don't tower over GW Space Marines!

PhantomViper wrote:

Eilif wrote: I'd be even more impressed if they had modded weapons, (...)

WGF Greatcoats with Pig Iron heads and their weapons completely filed off and replaced with GW lasguns...

Not exactly a very original conversion but I'm quite proud of them...

P.S. - And I filled off the crappy plastic "base" that the WGF troopers come with so that they don't tower over GW Space Marines!

I'd like to see these. Ever consider putting up a thread in the Painting and Modeling Showcase?

The greatcoat troopers are really boss. I modelled a bunch of them for a GK Henchmen Coteaz commission I did; the buyer loved them.

Eilif wrote:
I'd like to see these. Ever consider putting up a thread in the Painting and Modeling Showcase?

There is absolutely nothing fancy about the conversion, the heads are simple head swaps with the Pig Iron gas masks WWI heads, and I just cut the WGFs troopers weapons leaving only the stock and the handle, cut of the stock and handle from the lasguns I had lying around on my bits box and glued them together.

I could post a few pictures of them, but I haven't even goten around to painting them yet (Cygnar, Legion and my Schwere Panzer Companie are taking all my painting time currently)...

sorry, tired of power gamers with proxies,

Sorry that Ace o spades is a black lotus

No problem with it providing the 3rd parties bits don't make up the majority of the model, which you then use on GW premises or GW centric events. That just seems disrespectful to me (essentially saying to GW designers that the majority of their work is crap).

Imagine I cooked you a meal, spent ages over it, but you prefer your potatoes done a different way, so you bring your own and feed mine to the dog, I'd be pretty pissed!

However, I don't see the problem if it's a local gaming group with no direct affiliation to 1 company, as at the end of the day we're in this hobby for creative reasons, so why hamper those creative juices when using someone elses shoulder pad or whatever will really bring your model to life

kitch102 wrote:That just seems disrespectful to me

Despite what the US Supreme Court might say, Games Workshop is not a person. It doesn't feel disrespected. It'll get over it.

kitch102 wrote:No problem with it providing the 3rd parties bits don't make up the majority of the model, which you then use on GW premises or GW centric events. That just seems disrespectful to me (essentially saying to GW designers that the majority of their work is crap).

I think the fact that I play their game instead of another should be respect enough. I own their models and use them while playing their game. I also own models from someone else and choose to use them as well. In some cases it is to fill a void that GW has yet to fill. In others it is to replace models that I feel are tired or uninspiring.

kitch102 wrote:Imagine I cooked you a meal, spent ages over it, but you prefer your potatoes done a different way, so you bring your own and feed mine to the dog, I'd be pretty pissed!

If you spent ages working on the same tired skull laden potatoes that you always serve when I told you that I am tired of skulls 6 days a week then you should have expected that I would stop at KFC and that the dog would be eating skulls again. It isn't that I don't like your skully potatoes, just kinda tired of eating the same thing day in and day out. You need to understand that there are only some many things that need skulls and adjust your recipe or I am gonna keep getting my KFC and sometimes even McDonalds. The fries rock after all and they have no skulls at all in their recipe, just animal fat.

kitch102 wrote:However, I don't see the problem if it's a local gaming group with no direct affiliation to 1 company, as at the end of the day we're in this hobby for creative reasons, so why hamper those creative juices when using someone elses shoulder pad or whatever will really bring your model to life

And why hamper my creative juices when using someone elses models will bring my WHOLE army to life? I think that the big picture should be seen here as well. I am a bit tired of skulls on everything so I look for skull free items to accent my armies. Skulls in this case being anything repetitive that makes most GW armies look like most other GW armies.

There is a whole universe of fluff out there and I wish to explore it even though GW doesn't want me to.

Hm, you make a fair point sir.

Just to reaffirm that I wasn't saying that I'm against 3rd party bits / models being used, I was just saying that I wouldn't substitute every part of a model apart from a shoulder pad or 2 (a huge exaggeration, for explanation of my view only) and then call it a GW product if you see what I mean, and to have a whole army built like this. On the flip side, I wouldn't use 99% GW product, take it along to another companies tournament or whatever and just crack on.

Ultimately I know there's a lot of kick ass stuff out there, hope I've explained my thoughts well enough