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sudojoe wrote:Is it me or do I feel that even in the current fluff, Dragio is actually quite powerless?

I mean everyone read that part that says he blew up and tore down blah blah, but in the end, it all comes back like he wasn't there. Him being too perfect and immune to chaos means that chaos is completely immune to him. Sure he blows up something but as soon as he turns around, it's exactly like it was before he got there.

I read the whole part as a parable of sorts where chaos can only be defeated by the average man who can overcome his deficiencies. If he was completely immune, he can't harm chaos either.

It's like a flash back to Hellsing (anime reference) where the crazy priest (alexander anderson) turns himself into a monster and suddenly cannot kill Dracula (alucard) but as a human, he could have. In order to get more power, he actually ruined his chances of victory.

So in my mind, Dragio doesn't have much if any powers at all. He's not stronger than the chaos gods because if he was, he'd be able to at least kill the demons. He's like stuck in some sort of tragic play where all he does is for naught. I think those that just read he was blowing up the warp didn't finish the paragraph where it said everything he did was in vain.

You're at least the third person I've seen to say basically this, myself included. People don't care. It's more fun to hate, I guess.

im2randomghgh wrote:I'd move the story line further, and make the Custodians of his Imperial Majesty march on the eye of terror!

Goody, unarmoured people to kill!

Zweischneid wrote:Decapitator-wielding-Decapitator ending the Universe and all existance,

What? I understood all of the others but where did this come from?

Durza wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:I'd move the story line further, and make the Custodians of his Imperial Majesty march on the eye of terror!

Goody, unarmoured people to kill!

Obviously they'd dust off the old armour pshhh the only reason they haven't conquered it already was that they lost the key to the storage closet.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Durza wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:I'd move the story line further, and make the Custodians of his Imperial Majesty march on the eye of terror!

Goody, unarmoured people to kill!

Obviously they'd dust off the old armour pshhh the only reason they haven't conquered it already was that they lost the key to the storage closet.

The amount of dust on their armor would give them a 2+ Armor save.

Leonus Cohol wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Durza wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:I'd move the story line further, and make the Custodians of his Imperial Majesty march on the eye of terror!

Goody, unarmoured people to kill!

Obviously they'd dust off the old armour pshhh the only reason they haven't conquered it already was that they lost the key to the storage closet.

The amount of dust on their armor would give them a 2+ Armor save.

*2++

You forgot a plus.

Anyways it would be 2+ anyways.

Red Comet wrote:Draigo doesn't go around the Warp killing stuff, but instead is dropped into the real world at the whim of the chaos gods in the middle of a daemon invasion. This way the Chaos gods pit Draigo against thousands of Daemons as a sort of sport to see how long it will take for him to die. You could throw something in about him being able to call for help and that he lasts a long period of time before GK come to rescue him and at the conclusion of the battle he is forced back into a prison in the warp or something similar.

We need more brofists. I want an Eldar Tau Brofist.

Less killing of the Sisters of Battle. Its really getting annoying. Its even in the Necron codex.

Not sure what else.

I'm hopnestly surprised there aren't MORE Tau/Eldar fistbumps in the fluff. I mean really, if there were two races that actually would help each other a bit, it would be them. And they wouldn't even need to be over the top, either, just little nudges. It might even be cool to see a story where the Eldar "kidnap" a small colony fleet of Tau and deposit them in another part of the galaxy and let them spread out from there.

Nagashek wrote:

Red Comet wrote:Draigo doesn't go around the Warp killing stuff, but instead is dropped into the real world at the whim of the chaos gods in the middle of a daemon invasion. This way the Chaos gods pit Draigo against thousands of Daemons as a sort of sport to see how long it will take for him to die. You could throw something in about him being able to call for help and that he lasts a long period of time before GK come to rescue him and at the conclusion of the battle he is forced back into a prison in the warp or something similar.

We need more brofists. I want an Eldar Tau Brofist.

Less killing of the Sisters of Battle. Its really getting annoying. Its even in the Necron codex.

Not sure what else.

I'm hopnestly surprised there aren't MORE Tau/Eldar fistbumps in the fluff. I mean really, if there were two races that actually would help each other a bit, it would be them. And they wouldn't even need to be over the top, either, just little nudges. It might even be cool to see a story where the Eldar "kidnap" a small colony fleet of Tau and deposit them in another part of the galaxy and let them spread out from there.

I've been waiting for that for so long. Eldrad even seemed to have a high opinion of the tau.

Nagashek wrote:
I'm hopnestly surprised there aren't MORE Tau/Eldar fistbumps in the fluff. I mean really, if there were two races that actually would help each other a bit, it would be them.

Eldar hate Tau, just like they hate everything that isn't Eldar. Just because think Tau are better than Humanity doesn't mean they hate them any less.

DarknessEternal wrote:

Nagashek wrote:
I'm hopnestly surprised there aren't MORE Tau/Eldar fistbumps in the fluff. I mean really, if there were two races that actually would help each other a bit, it would be them.

Eldar hate Tau, just like they hate everything that isn't Eldar. Just because think Tau are better than Humanity doesn't mean they hate them any less.

Not according to Eldrad.

They would see that negociations with tau end in less possible futures of bloodshed than combat would.

"Willingness to negotiate" should not be confused with "frienship".

DarknessEternal wrote:"Willingness to negotiate" should not be confused with "frienship".

But it does say that that don't hate them just look down on them. they wouldn't negotiate with the necrons even if they could. that's hatred.

Nom

I really don't see a lot wrong with the fluff. I just want to see more battle stories in the codex like in the old necron dex. Also, moving along the fluff wouldn't be a bad idea.
Opinions on writers:
-Ward is good, I don't see the hate (from the necron dex standpoint)
-Kelly is a great writer. The ideas seem silly when boiled down facetiously but when written out sound great
-Cruddace from a nid point of view, "Cruddace no, Cruddace no, Cruddace, NO."

i only have one real complaint:

We had Inertia-less drives. the most awesome form of travel that couldn't potentially kill you. now we're in the web way with all the pointy eared snobs.

may we please have it back?

Bring back the Cults.

These are some of the most likely foes for a 40K universe. Why are there no rules or figs or real fluff for Traitor Guard, Chaos Cults, or Genestealer Cults anymore?

Because none of them wear power armour

I loved the old nid hybrids. I had a ork-nid-hybrid force for a while there, after rules for them came out in a wd.

My guess on why they haven't got a codex is that the cults are 'too small to sell tons of models..'

Mine were big enough to give any local PDF the bum's rush I may have to revist the idea and see if i can find some of the old models...

Spiku wrote:
C) Return Necrons to non-sentient killing machines, rather than Tomb Guard in spaaaaaace

If you read the fluff, there is an example where this happened. The necrons on one of the tomb worlds were memory/personality-wiped by a radiation storm and the master control took over.

You know what? I'm not even going to ask for Inertia-less drive to come back. I'm whiting out the webway stuff and writing in Inertia-less drive. Up yours Matty! (Maybe if we all did this then... )

Totalwar1402 wrote:
* Sisters of Battle aren't just a niche army that goes around recovering relics and guarding cathedrals but is a major part of the Imperial war machine and strong arm of the church. Like, take the whole fear of a strong church in the age of strife (with the inside joke about the decree passive being a way around it since theys not men under arms) and make it so that the ecclesiarchy is in fact massively abusing this clause to the alarm and consternation of everyone who remembers Vandires reign of blood. You know, create a whole history could repeat itself in the end.

This. Oh god so much this.

I love the Adeptas Soritas. The way they get treated is just sickening (and this is coming from a Necron player).

The sisters deserve the same treatment the marines do. One core codex, and a number of order-specific codexes. Granted...I think that everyone deserves this kind of treatment but hey... I'd love a Bloody Rose codex...

clively wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:Decapitator-wielding-Decapitator ending the Universe and all existance,

What? I understood all of the others but where did this come from?

Dark Eldar Special Character "the Decapitator" who wields a weapon called "the Decapitator" that he uses to ... wait for it... "decapitate people". He also now has an unpronouncable other name that's supposed to translate into ... wait for it.. "he who hunts head" (yah! 10 points for variety).

Now the name might have existed before, but it still gets 11 out of 10 points for the most stupid naming theme in 40K 5th Edition. Next Codex Phil Kelly writes, we probably get a Space Marine Special Character called "Bolter" who wields a "Bolter" that he uses to "bolter" people. His other name will be the High Gothic translation of "Bolt..gun"!

Now, if it was just Kelly's mindboggling inability to name stuff (Wolfy-wolf, here we go), it be nothing new. But the real fluff-travesty IMO is that all those skulls he collects (and not for Khorne) are used in some super-secret, super-evil, super-powerful ritual of skull-pattern-arrangement in his super-secret, super-hidden, super-gloomy cavern that lies outside all known dimensions and realms (including DE pocket dimension from the former webway). And when the super-secret, super-evil, super-powerful ritual is completed, some "darkness gathering like a living thing" from some unnamed, undefined "shadow realm" will come about and end or enslave all life.

Essentially, the entire thing reads like Phil Kelly saw the following web-comic...



... but failed to recognize the tongue-in-cheek inherent to the drawing and decided to do something like it for the Dark Eldar book; just with far less literally talent and in total and utter disregard for any established metaphysics of the established 40K cosmos.

As with Marines-riding-large-wolves-with-CYBERNETICS! and jack-in-a-box-that-isn't-a-jack-but-a-goddamn-BLACK HOLE!!, it seems to be Phil Kelly's primary contribution to the 40K universe to take the most absurd parodies out there and simply adopt them the literally and without the slightest trace of parody.

Zweischneid wrote:

clively wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:Decapitator-wielding-Decapitator ending the Universe and all existance,

What? I understood all of the others but where did this come from?

Dark Eldar Special Character "the Decapitator" who wields a weapon called "the Decapitator" that he uses to ... wait for it... "decapitate people". He also now has an unpronouncable other name that's supposed to translate into ... wait for it.. "he who hunts head" (yah! 10 points for variety).

That doesn't necessarily mean that he cuts people's heads off...it could mean something different altogether.

But yeah, it does seem that Kelly is bad at coming up with names.

They all are.

Cruddace and Ward are no better.

We get such gems as Venomthrope (toxanthrope from back when the rumors were flying was better ). Bloodstrike Missiles, DreadKnight etc etc..

I think at this point mind-numbing naming conventions are pretty much a GW standard..

Autocannon rounds should be more penetratey so the have an ap value of 3.

Majsharan wrote:Autocannon rounds should be more penetratey so the have an ap value of 3.

I cannot begin to tell you why that's such a horrible idea

On topic: I'd honestly like to see a reference to GorkaMorka in the next Ork codex

Ok well then make the ap value of heavy bolters 5 , ACs should have better penetration than hbs.

A giant molten statue of death and destruction who facerolls the entire ultrasmurf 1st company
gets falcon punched by marneus derpgar and explodes...that is just heresy Mr. Ward

I have a biiiiiiiiiiiig list of stuff I'd change.

1. Space Wolves need to be portrayed less heroically. They're ignorant savages and above all else executioners who care only about fulfilling their mission.

2. Necrons and C'tan need to be their old selves. Necrons are not honorable. They do not have multiple Empires and do not negotiate with other races. Some Necrons, like especially powerful Lords have personalities, but most don't. Chaos is their anathema.

3. Black Crusade needs to advance. Here's what I'd have; Abadabadingdong conquers blows up Cadia with one of his many planet destroying devices and marauds around Segmentum Obscurus. Ultimately the Imperium can't stop him and it looks like everyone is dead. However hundreds of Necron Tomb World awaken at once as a result of all the Chaos messing up their planets. A massive Chaos vs. Necron battle occurs. Ultimately the Necrons realize they can't push back Chaos and instead move their pylons back. Thus the Eye of Terror expands greatly, catching the Traitor Legions back inside but also giving them more planets to conquer, more resources and overall more room. That way the status quo is still intact but also Chaos has had a major victory.

4. Ultramarines need to be toned down. They need to have one or two less victories and one or two more defeats. Of course they can still be accomplished and that sort of thing, but no more Mary Sue. Also, not all Space Marines want to be Ultramarines.

5. Tyranids have no individual personalities like the Swarm Lord. Its stupid. It goes against the whole concept of Tyranids. They are a Hive Mind. No individuals. No. Bad.

6. Grey Knights, like Ultramarines are massively toned down. Draigo is removed. He's just stupid. Even if he can't accomplish anything in the Warp its ridiculous that none of the Daemons can kill him.

7. Decapitator is removed. He's kinda stupid and generic.

8. Sisters of Battle are just as an important part of the Imperial military as the Space Marines.

I like almost all points in this thread but I think one everyone has missed is the Dark Angels. Did they finally find the last of the fallen? and what was the big "secret" that only the elites in the chapter knew?

Not really fluff but twin-linked needs to be gone. If you can't hit the first time what makes it to where you get to fire again? Also if there is TWO then it should be 2 of the weapons not miss with one and maybe hit with the other.
2 lascannons on one model should equal 2 shots
2 auto cannons= 4 shots
and so forth and so on (of coarse this is just my opinion).