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djphranq wrote:I'd do away with bolt rounds being explosive.

Better yet, make them actually explode instead of just saying that they do, when in fact they function just like normal machine guns.

I'm looking at you, Dawn of War.

Ixion wrote:

djphranq wrote:I'd do away with bolt rounds being explosive.

Better yet, make them actually explode instead of just saying that they do, when in fact they function just like normal machine guns.

I'm looking at you, Dawn of War.

Their function in the game is defined by their damage. The only S4 weapon the imperium has at their disposal is a Heavy Stubber, which is basically a Heavy MG. But with poorer AP.

I would give the necrons back their FTL tech. The new codex makes me sad

Imperium
-Actually know who some of the High Lords of Terra are circa 900.M41.
-Less fear of disrupting the status quo. I'm not talking about destroying Terra/, but at least make a Segmentum Command under serious threat and stop having places like Cadia or Macragge so utterly protected by plot armor. Hell, have a Segmentum destroyed if you can make it entertaining enough. It won't effect the game unless it's Terra or the like.
-Have the Adeptus Custodes do something

Space Marines
-Not all Space Marines want to be Ultramarines, less Ultramarines spank in general
-Size of the Chapters They're too small. I won't buy that 300 Space Marines can take down an entire world. Yes I know their tactics and they're just the spearhead. But Just driving around whilst thinking about 40k I realized just how large an area my state is, nevermind the whole country, nevermind the whole planet.

Chaos
-Give Malice a role in the story.
-Daemon Primarchs actually are involved in the story again.
-Black Crusades actually can get somewhere
-Stop with the Red Corsairs spank. I don't like the angle GW has been pushing since 4th edition that CSM are more renegades and pirates then children of the Dark Powers.
-Have us know what's actually going on in the Warp with the Great Game

Eldar
-Introduce some level of Chaos Eldar into fluff (not the tabletop). It makes no sense they don't exist and I've already said why in a previous thread

Necrons
-C'tan were still pulling the strings (you could have had them do so while also powering them down on the battlefield or reducing their ability to physically manifest)
-Necrons weren't so motivated by honor and "ties of blood"
-Make the Necrontyr vs Old Ones story the way it used to be. Hatred of life from their own short lifespans was much better then "the Triarch needed an enemy to stop the Necrontyr from killing each other
-Necrons are united under the Silent King who in turn serves his C'tan masters. Tomb Worlds/Dynasties can still exist and they can still behave in different ways, but the Necrons feel so declawed and un-machine with this bickering they suffer from now.
-Necrons are more machine in general. The Lords/Overlords can have their personalities due to not being re-downloaded into new bodies so much, but this bs with Immortals talking/issuing orders is just stupid. Necrons value machine precision, the strength of the non-organic, and a hatred of life. Not honor, blood ties, and getting their bodies back.

Tyranids
-More identifiable characters. This doesn't jepordize their collective/swarm mentality. Think of the Overmind in Starcraft, he was a badass. The Hive Mind could easily be made to be such a figure.
-FTL/inertialess drives

Tau
-Their current fluff is largely what I want it to be, yet there's still something missing. Maybe just more well-written characters. Not having them smacked down in fluff so much would also help.

Other
-Less Imperium-centric fluff explanation. Tell non-Imperial codex's from a non-Imperial codex, except in cases like Tyranids or Orks where this would be impossible to do properly.
-The inclusion of a non-Imperial human fashion. Make the Interex come back. I'd like to see a completely different, more civilized, and more liberal human society similar to the utopic vision of Star Trek clash with the dystopian Imperium.
-More knowledge of non-playable races like Hrud, Thexians, Ulumeathic, Draxian, Dracolith, etc.. Right now we don't even know what they look like, yet these are emerging alien empires threatening the Imperium.
-Stop being so closely knit to WHFB. For a while with the Tau, Tyranids, and (somewhat) Necrons this was happening, but Ward seems to have forced fluff back towards Fantasy.

I think Orks and Dark Eldar fluff is largely fine right now.

And generally, just more character/plot-driven and focused fluff. I get the fluff is to compliment the game first and foremost from GW's perspective, but I don't think 40k would be nearly as popular as it is if it wasn't for its setting and getting some real writers on board could help immensely.

Ixion wrote:

djphranq wrote:I'd do away with bolt rounds being explosive.

Better yet, make them actually explode instead of just saying that they do, when in fact they function just like normal machine guns.

I'm looking at you, Dawn of War.

In the fluff, they do in fact explode.

Whether Dawn of War shows this or not is irrelevant.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Ixion wrote:

djphranq wrote:I'd do away with bolt rounds being explosive.

Better yet, make them actually explode instead of just saying that they do, when in fact they function just like normal machine guns.

I'm looking at you, Dawn of War.

Their function in the game is defined by their damage. The only S4 weapon the imperium has at their disposal is a Heavy Stubber, which is basically a Heavy MG. But with poorer AP.

I would give the necrons back their FTL tech. The new codex makes me sad

I'm starting to get the feeling I should learn the rules of Warhammer 40,000, just so I can make informed statements and responses to these manner of things.

I would update the fluff to match armies.

For example, Eldar are clearly not a dying, technologically advanced race. They are a horde that will send absolutely anyone to certain doom and have technology mostly worse, but certainly no better, than the Imperium (which sets the bar as average for the setting).

Draigo doesn't go around the Warp killing stuff, but instead is dropped into the real world at the whim of the chaos gods in the middle of a daemon invasion. This way the Chaos gods pit Draigo against thousands of Daemons as a sort of sport to see how long it will take for him to die. You could throw something in about him being able to call for help and that he lasts a long period of time before GK come to rescue him and at the conclusion of the battle he is forced back into a prison in the warp or something similar.

We need more brofists. I want an Eldar Tau Brofist.

Less killing of the Sisters of Battle. Its really getting annoying. Its even in the Necron codex.

Not sure what else.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Grey Knights - I think a decision needs to be made here, are they good guys are not?

Since when are there good guys in 40k? Everyone in 40k is a total feth towards everyone else. It's just which perspective its being told from that skews the tale.

I would make the genestealer cults a prmoinent part of the fluff again. I love the concept of them.

I would also remove marneus calgar(sp) altogether, you just don't stop the avatar of khaine like that.

And return the necrons to their original fluff, dunno why but i liked it better when they were a mystery and not emo-robots who just want a body again.

Nom

Nothing, the Fluff is fine.

It does not have much effect on the rules, so leave it as it is.

1. Delete the all the fluff from the 5th edition Grey Knights codex and instead rework the old fluff from the Daemonhunters codex. I’d base the new Supreme Grandmaster special character off Logan Grimnar, Abaddon and Marinus Calgar (veteran tactical badass).

2. Tweak the current imperial fluff to remove some of the “plot armour” elements. The imperium now loses battles in the fluff and enemies have a greater stranglehold against the imperium.

3. Redo the Horus Heresy fluff (removing the cliché elements) as well as altering the current mix of traitor/loyalist legions.

4. Retcon the ork fungus fluff.

5. Deletion of the Sanguinor fluff. Character replaced with new special character that is similarly equipped but lacks the “plot armour” and “messiah” aspects of the Sanguinor.

6. Abaddon is now very close to truly uniting all of the traitor factions and unleashing the worst Black Crusade yet (i.e. Cadia is fethed).

Bring Malal back! Make him corrupt Draigo! Make Dark Eldar a real threat to the interity of at least one other faction!

Draigo dies.
Khorne curbstomped him personally.

Kaldor Draigo empowered by a Chaos God that seeks the destruction of all Chaos Gods against Kharn? Eh...

* Make Tau a major threat and not just confined to a very small part of the galaxy behind the Damocles Gulf. Most maps show them with two dozen planets and this hardly constitutes one of the major races. ie make them a serious contender for power on the eastern fringe.

* A radical faction in the adeptus mechanicus who want to push for greater technological advancement by violating the prohbitions on certain weapons and such (AI). Think like the puritan/radical divide for Inquisitor.

* Some dark eldar recognise the malaise that has twisted their souls and (a tiny minority) try desperately to find a cure rather than just be sick twisted .

* Sisters of Battle aren't just a niche army that goes around recovering relics and guarding cathedrals but is a major part of the Imperial war machine and strong arm of the church. Like, take the whole fear of a strong church in the age of strife (with the inside joke about the decree passive being a way around it since theys not men under arms) and make it so that the ecclesiarchy is in fact massively abusing this clause to the alarm and consternation of everyone who remembers Vandires reign of blood. You know, create a whole history could repeat itself in the end.

*Oh I might as well. Get rid of the silly story about grey knights going Aztec on the SOB.

Belexar wrote:Bring Malal back! Make him corrupt Draigo! Make Dark Eldar a real threat to the interity of at least one other faction!

He basically is back as Malice, but just isn't written about.

blow cadia up. that is all

- An all Female IG regiment with models (the first born are all men, why can't we have an all woman army?)

- Stop worfing the SoB. We get it, they're a strong person to person Imperium force that's not Space Marines which makes them free game for killing. But it's got so far that it seems like GW is having weird rape fantasies about the Sisters.

- Chaos, all this great fluff about the renegade chapters, and what do you do? "LOL PIRATES!"

- Make the Dark Eldar more of a threat, than just "PIRATES!" A assassin like force that can pop wherever they want and lives off of anguish, pain, and puppy dog tears? They should be doing stuff!

DarknessEternal wrote:I would update the fluff to match armies.

For example, Eldar are clearly not a dying, technologically advanced race. They are a horde that will send absolutely anyone to certain doom and have technology mostly worse, but certainly no better, than the Imperium (which sets the bar as average for the setting).

That bugs me too. Maybe they should just change the Eldar fluff to say that there tech isn't better. That whould fit with them being something like space Amish. Maybe improving eldar TT weapons, but that might be unbalanced.

Personally I'd do one thing and one thing only (that I can think of right now).

I'd look at the Horus - Emperor fight and get rid of the Imperial Fists Terminator Captain. In his place, returned to his rightful spot in the horus Heresy, would be the legendary Saint of the Imperial Guard, Ollanius Pius.

For the following reasons;

- Ollanius wasn't supposed to even be at that showdown, yet he somehow ended up there, a freak chance that an ordinary man was there amidst all of those 'super-humans'
- It was through his sacrifice, by standing in the way of Horus and giving the Emperor the breathing space he needed, that the Emperor was able to defeat Horus
- What is more awesome? A genetically modified super-human veteran Space Marine Captain clad in Tactical Dreadnaught Armour opening fire on Horus or an Imperial Guardsman armoured in flak armour, clutching his lasgun and going to his death for his Emperor without fear, knowing that the enormous traitor-Warlord would tear him apart within a second yet still placing himself between Horus and the wounded Emperor.

The only thing about the Dark eldar I would change is make them completely and totally hate and hunt the Craftworld eldar, maybe even for some meta-physical reason, that their cousins give more of a respite from slannesh's hunger, basically make them the best sport.

they seem way to chummy now, even helping each other without treachery.

I just always figured they would be opposites of the same coin and forever at odds.

Is it me or do I feel that even in the current fluff, Dragio is actually quite powerless?

I mean everyone read that part that says he blew up and tore down blah blah, but in the end, it all comes back like he wasn't there. Him being too perfect and immune to chaos means that chaos is completely immune to him. Sure he blows up something but as soon as he turns around, it's exactly like it was before he got there.

I read the whole part as a parable of sorts where chaos can only be defeated by the average man who can overcome his deficiencies. If he was completely immune, he can't harm chaos either.

It's like a flash back to Hellsing (anime reference) where the crazy priest (alexander anderson) turns himself into a monster and suddenly cannot kill Dracula (alucard) but as a human, he could have. In order to get more power, he actually ruined his chances of victory.

So in my mind, Dragio doesn't have much if any powers at all. He's not stronger than the chaos gods because if he was, he'd be able to at least kill the demons. He's like stuck in some sort of tragic play where all he does is for naught. I think those that just read he was blowing up the warp didn't finish the paragraph where it said everything he did was in vain.

Ultimately he has little effect on the warp.

In the hands of a competent writer this concept would have a certain pathos and futilty

In Ward's hands it's more like a catalogue of the most powerful critters/places in the galaxy, being owned each day by Mr Shiny, with Improved Stabbing Action..

Give Ward the boot.

Give Kelly the boot.
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(Or failing that, make sure he sticks with his pirate ships or what-not, and keep him the hell away from 40K).

Zweischneid wrote:Give Kelly the boot.
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(Or failing that, make sure he sticks with his pirate ships or what-not, and keep him the hell away from 40K).

What's wrong with Kelly? i much prefer what he does compare to Ward.

Ronin wrote:
What's wrong with Kelly? i much prefer what he does compare to Ward.

What's wrong with Ward? I much prefer what he does compared to Kelly.


(Marines riding on He-Man-style cyber-animals; Dark Eldar throwing about Loony-Toon style Black-Holes-in-a-Box, Blood Claws going Grand Theft Thunderhawk on their own chapter to pick up girls in town, Decapitator-wielding-Decapitator ending the Universe and all existance, Space Wolves surprise-ambushing the Ecclesiarchy/SoB for no particular reason, etc..,etc..: Just horribly inept writing whereever you look really that continually fails to "get" 40K).

I have to agree with Zweischneid. It's strange that at all of my local gaming clubs (okay I only go to 4) everyone cites the above, and makes comments regarding a perceived "fanfictionesque" style of writing. Having seen Halflfe: full life consequences, I am now inclined to agree.

I don't appreciate the x-treme approach, I liked the 80's style science fiction grit; and my goodness the treatment of the SoB is shocking

I liked my fluff pre 5th edition, and that's the one change to make. Stop at 4th.

I'd move the story line further, and make the Custodians of his Imperial Majesty march on the eye of terror!

Also, I'd make tau the same size as humans. What do they achieve by making a tall/average Tau 3-6" smaller than a human? annyoing fluff bit that doesnt help anybody

im2randomghgh wrote:What do they achieve by making a tall/average Tau 3-6" smaller than a human?

Because they are neo-japanese