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nm.

Disarray wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:Dice can be used in the majority of situations. Just number the models and roll the amount of dice necessary to incorporate the highest number (so for 14 models you need 3D6) and either make it so that any numbers higher (in this case, 15 through 18) count as rolling the highest possible result attributed to a model (in this case 14) or simply re-roll until you reach a valid number.

You don't have an equal chance of getting every possibility. The casino game of "Craps" highlights this exactly.

You have an equal chance of getting any single result on a single d6. On the other hand when you are adding the results of 2d6 the distribution is a bell curve. See DevianID's post for a method that actually works.

you can cobble it together in C in a couple of minutes easily, I did so a whole ago
srand();
dice_result=rand()%d;
where d is the number you want, so 6 for a d6, 10 for a d10.
may have gotten the fuction names wrong, it's been a while.

technically that's pseudorandom, but likely close enough.

Or, you could use www.random.org from an available smartphone/tablet/laptop.

I think for speed sake, its just faster to have the opponent write down on a sheet of paper what number every model is (say 5 models in a unit of grey knights, like

1 - halberd
2 - halberd
3 - hammer
4 - justicar
5 - psycannon

And then I (or person who is initiating "random" attack) just randomly choose a number between 1-5, opponent places down the piece of paper and voila.

Alternatively, if it's a horde of ork boyz w/ a boyz nob , 30 models , the opponent would just write down what number the nob would be and if i guess that number between 1-30 i kill the nob, otherwise its just a random ork boy

Least thats my idea for fastest/most fair.

Cryage, instead of going through writing down numbers and what not in order to have your opponent guess, you can use my method of randomly generating 1-36 on 2 d6, or larger numbers if ever necessary on 3 d6. Your method wont work well in large diversified units of models, since unless you have all the models numbered ahead of time you will spend more time writing down whats in the unit.

After all, if you would roll to determine who is hit in a 5 man gk squad, you should roll to determine who is hit in a 30 man ork mob with at most 4 different kinds of models. Consistancy matters.

DevianID wrote:Cryage, instead of going through writing down numbers and what not in order to have your opponent guess, you can use my method of randomly generating 1-36 on 2 d6, or larger numbers if ever necessary on 3 d6. Your method wont work well in large diversified units of models, since unless you have all the models numbered ahead of time you will spend more time writing down whats in the unit.

After all, if you would roll to determine who is hit in a 5 man gk squad, you should roll to determine who is hit in a 30 man ork mob with at most 4 different kinds of models. Consistancy matters.

To be fair in most cases you would only need to write down a few numbers.

For example you have a 20 man CSM squad. There are 2 plasma guns, 1 champion with a PF and 17 normal guys.

Jot down a number between 1-20 for each of the plasmas and the PF. If I guess any of those three numbers the appropriate model is selected, if not it was a vanilla guy.

Yes that is true cagecf, some units may be easier than others for playing the guessing game. BUT, there is no reason not to roll dice randomly, especially considering that guessing numbers has quite a bit of psychology behind it.

Without looking up the data, I am fairly confidant that a random breakdown of strangers asked for random numbers 1-20 will result in some mumbers being picked much more often than others. '13' for example may have 10% total, while '1' may only have 2%, as people are inclined to not pick the outer limits of the set asked to provide a number within. Obviously 10% and 2% are not 5% each, which you should expect in a random guess in a large sample size.

Woah woah woah... Surely it just means you choose an enemy model? Say if a space marine tactical squad had a sergeant, a marine with a missile launcher and eight normal guys, you pick one (say the missile guy because he could blow up a tank, or the sergeant because his face is badly painted*) and it's chosen. GW (I'd even go so far as to say Matt Ward) wouldn't expect people to go through major lengths to decide a 'random model'...

*I hate painting faces. I thoroughly hate it...

Commander Jimbob wrote:Woah woah woah... Surely it just means you choose an enemy model?

Arbitrary is not random.

I just close my eyes and pick a model at random, can't get much more random than that XD

LazzurusMan wrote:I just close my eyes and pick a model at random, can't get much more random than that XD

Yes it can.
Especially if you have a (good) memory.

What I do is take a piece of paper, a square about 1/2 an inch across, and hold it above the unit and let it drop. No fanning or blowing it. If it misses just do it again. Whatever model it hits.

Deadshot wrote:What I do is take a piece of paper, a square about 1/2 an inch across, and hold it above the unit and let it drop. No fanning or blowing it. If it misses just do it again. Whatever model it hits.

How is this any easier than rolling some dice? It's decidedly less random, it takes longer, and you already have a pile of dice on hand.

What I do is I fly to England, find Matt Ward, and punch him in the stomach over and over screaming "WHY WOULD YOU MAKE SO IMPRACTICAL A MECHANIC?" until he tells me which model is "random".



Seriously: As long as both players are comfortable with the method involved, it doesn't really matter. Just hope that one of the players isn't a mathematician.

kirsanth wrote:

Commander Jimbob wrote:Woah woah woah... Surely it just means you choose an enemy model?

Arbitrary is not random.

And yet random is not practical... I'm sure in the BRB it says that the game is designed to be fast and simple. I just think that it's worded badly.

Commander Jimbob wrote:And yet random is not practical... I'm sure in the BRB it says that the game is designed to be fast and simple. I just think that it's worded badly.

There are a plethora of valid ways to get a random result in this thread.

Most of them take less time that it took you to post that.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:

Deadshot wrote:What I do is take a piece of paper, a square about 1/2 an inch across, and hold it above the unit and let it drop. No fanning or blowing it. If it misses just do it again. Whatever model it hits.

How is this any easier than rolling some dice? It's decidedly less random, it takes longer, and you already have a pile of dice on hand.

I use a 1/22 square because my IG friend likes the Prepared Assault Battle Mission, which use thse. Even a tiny corner of the page of an army list would do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I only do it for large units like Orks or Blobs. If thwey number a multiple of 3, or are less than 7 in number then I roll dfice. but in a horde this is good, rather than rolling 30 odd dice and coming up with a complicated formula.

xlEternitylx wrote:Randomly select a model eh? Ask a passer-by to pick a random model. It doesn't get more random than human nature.

Avatar 720 wrote:Run into the street, grab any randomer, ask them to pick a model from the squad and then let them go.

There, random.

"Aaaaargh! get away from me weirdo!"

"OK, I choose the shiny one"

"The metal skeleton one."
"That's the wrong team, it has to be one of the other team."
"I've got better things to do with my time."

kirsanth wrote:

Commander Jimbob wrote:And yet random is not practical... I'm sure in the BRB it says that the game is designed to be fast and simple. I just think that it's worded badly.

There are a plethora of valid ways to get a random result in this thread.

Most of them take less time that it took you to post that.

Haha, very funny, all I'm saying is I don't think everyone should be taking the word 'random' so literally, like if at school a teacher were to ask you to randomly choose a member of the class, you wouldn't go online and find a result generator, roll a d25, etc... You'd just choose someone.

But when you picked someone, it didn't matter who. It didn't make a big diference. "Randomly" the guy with a Thunder Hammer, when a C'tan uis about to charge, is not fair.

Hmmm...

Random number generators guys. Just find a good one and use that.

Or, I dont know, roll the d6 you have...

Because not everyone has access to a random number generator or a smart phone when playing, but d6's are required for the game, AND with just 2d6 you can get random numbers from 1 to 36 easily (1 to 216 with 3d6) if everyone just gets on board with the dice method then it will become as easy as rolling to hit.

DevianID wrote:Or, I dont know, roll the d6 you have...

Because not everyone has access to a random number generator or a smart phone when playing, but d6's are required for the game, AND with just 2d6 you can get random numbers from 1 to 36 easily (1 to 216 with 3d6) if everyone just gets on board with the dice method then it will become as easy as rolling to hit.

But only if you use different colored dice. Otherwise you only have 21 numbers on 2d6.

Grakmar wrote:What I do is I fly to England, find Matt Ward, and punch him in the stomach over and over screaming "WHY WOULD YOU MAKE SO IMPRACTICAL A MECHANIC?" until he tells me which model is "random".

This, this, this, a thousand times, this!

DevianID wrote:Or, I dont know, roll the d6 you have...

Because not everyone has access to a random number generator or a smart phone when playing, but d6's are required for the game, AND with just 2d6 you can get random numbers from 1 to 36 easily (1 to 216 with 3d6) if everyone just gets on board with the dice method then it will become as easy as rolling to hit.

Again, 2d6 does NOT give you an equal chance for each number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craps

seriously guys...

i second Jimbob,........ and Grakmar!

Disarray wrote:

DevianID wrote:Or, I dont know, roll the d6 you have...

Because not everyone has access to a random number generator or a smart phone when playing, but d6's are required for the game, AND with just 2d6 you can get random numbers from 1 to 36 easily (1 to 216 with 3d6) if everyone just gets on board with the dice method then it will become as easy as rolling to hit.

Again, 2d6 does NOT give you an equal chance for each number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craps

seriously guys...

He's not talking about summing them, he's talking about using them as some sort of percentile dice system, a d66 if you will. Summing 2d6 can't get you random numbers as high as 36.

I love random.
Take as many randomly selected model items as you can, and see if you're ahead when the tournament ends at the end of turn 2.

-Matt