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Luke_Prowler wrote:Oh yeah, warbiker are going to rock. They're faster than before, even faster during the Waaagh!, harder to hit, can charge outside point blank range, they still have that +4 cover save (where as other bikers lost turbo boost), and that +1 to toughness now affects ID, so biker nobs now need s9 to be oneshot.

So ID is going to be 2XT+1? Or are you saying that the +1 T for being on a bike will count against ID? In which case they will need a S10. If it is going to be 2XT+1, then PK Nobz without FC will not be ale to ID multi-wound T4 models.

Did you read the leak at all Jon? They changed the way ID rules work now.

Instant death kinda changed. A hit that's 4 S above toughness takes off two wounds and +5 over toughness does 3 wounds.

Edit: actually, that means warbosses get 2 wounds getting hit by a lascannon and still instakilled by railguns. Greeeeeeeeeeeaat.

Im thinking we will see a revival of the Ork Warboss personally. 5th edition is basically coverhammer 40k, so Bosses (the FOCUS of the damn army IMO) went to the old folks home and the KFF BigMeks seemed to be leading everything. Now that str10 PK is going to be causing some serious hurt


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Luke_Prowler wrote:Instant death kinda changed. A hit that's 4 S above toughness takes off two wounds and +5 over toughness does 3 wounds.

Read by kindda, you mean it completely changed

I was understating for effect

Luke_Prowler wrote:Instant death kinda changed. A hit that's 4 S above toughness takes off two wounds and +5 over toughness does 3 wounds.

Edit: actually, that means warbosses get 2 wounds getting hit by a lascannon and still instakilled by railguns. Greeeeeeeeeeeaat.

Isn't a Warboss on a warbike T6? So 1 wound if hit by a lascannon and 2 wounds if hit by a railgun?

So... if a Fast model with Multi-Targeting conducts a Combat or Engage move it performs Shooting actions as if it had performed a Turn, and can double its Multi-Targeting as if it were Stationary... So... Wazdakka can move 8" and shoot his Dakkacannon AND his Kustom Mega-Blasta?

Also, I'm assuming that Repair/Bolstering only works on Vehicles, not non-Vehicles that happen to have Multi-Targeting (like bikes), so Wazdakka can't Repair/Bolster himself so that he can go Flat Out and fire 2 weapons. Which, honestly, is kind of lame and un-orky.

Oh, and, huh, I assume that Repair/Bolster takes 1 Shooting action? So Wazdakka could move 8" and perform 2 Repair/Bolsters? Or, I guess, with his special rule, move Flat Out and perform a Repair/Bolster?

Your right that on a bike he takes two wounds from a rail gun. I mean a boss that's walking takes two from a lascannon.

KingCracker wrote:Did you read the leak at all Jon? They changed the way ID rules work now.

Nope.

Glad to see some good back and fourth on the pros and cons of the leak on Orks.
I'm curious to see if any of this makes it to actual 6e

I see Shoota Boyz being retired.

One of the main draws of the unit is that they're able to soften up their targets before ripping them to shreds in CC. Now that the Assault and Shooting phases have been reversed (I still can't understand why, makes no sense), the unit really doesn't bring much to the table. Slugga boyz are just going to be better.

I thought it stated that Bikes have no effect on ID in the leaked rules, meaning you are still T5 on a bike for ID purposes

Fafnir wrote:I see Shoota Boyz being retired.

One of the main draws of the unit is that they're able to soften up their targets before ripping them to shreds in CC. Now that the Assault and Shooting phases have been reversed (I still can't understand why, makes no sense), the unit really doesn't bring much to the table. Slugga boyz are just going to be better.

Agreed, which sucks, because I LOVE shoota boyz, not to mention they just look cool. Someone mentioned that Orks would be basically hitting on 6s, is that true? And SM will be hitting mostly on 2s? WTF, if thats true, then thats one thing Im NOT liking about this edition. Good thing only half my boyz I own are shootas, might have to cut some arms off and go back to pistols and axes.

Fafnir wrote:I see Shoota Boyz being retired.

One of the main draws of the unit is that they're able to soften up their targets before ripping them to shreds in CC. Now that the Assault and Shooting phases have been reversed (I still can't understand why, makes no sense), the unit really doesn't bring much to the table. Slugga boyz are just going to be better.

I think it makes more sense if the game played by using you move, I move, you assault, I assault... method instead the usual way.

As for stormboyz: Zagstrukk also gives them Deepstrike(Heroic), which prevents enemy models from getting defensive fire against them.

nosferatu1001 wrote:I thought it stated that Bikes have no effect on ID in the leaked rules, meaning you are still T5 on a bike for ID purposes

Actually, it states the exact opposite, and goes on that the bike blocks off the explosion/lascannon shot.

Gretchin will hit any moving regular unit on a 4+, orks will hit any moving rgular unit on a 5+.
Quick units (bikes, fast skimmers) are harder to hit by 1.
Massive units (tanks, MCs) are easier to hit by 1.
Stationary units are easier to hit by 1.

So a rokkit will hit a stationary tank on a 3+, a moving tank (including rhinos and chimeras) on a 4+, a moving fast skimmer tank on a 5+ and a moving bike on a 6+.

In addition, non-massive vehicles (ie. non-tank vehicles) can claim cover like regular models. Hurray for buggies and trukks.


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illuknisaa wrote:

Fafnir wrote:I see Shoota Boyz being retired.

One of the main draws of the unit is that they're able to soften up their targets before ripping them to shreds in CC. Now that the Assault and Shooting phases have been reversed (I still can't understand why, makes no sense), the unit really doesn't bring much to the table. Slugga boyz are just going to be better.

I think it makes more sense if the game played by using you move, I move, you assault, I assault... method instead the usual way.

Move and assault are one thing now. You can either move or engage into close combat at your regular speed(6" for infantry, 8" for bikes and jump infantry) allowing you to shoot afterward. Or you run/cruise twice your speed or charge twice your speed into close combat, preventing you from shooting.
Also note that fleet increases movement by 2", so ork infantry can charge 16" during their Waagh!.

The assault phase only resolves pile-in and combat itself, no more assault moves.

If shoota boyz wipe out their opponents by using engage, they can shoot whatever they like afterwards. But I agree, sluggas will be better by the new rules.

But aren't shoota boyz better because they have assault weapons (which grant +1A in cc)?

Also do you get to alpha strike if sluggas assault marines and then in the same turn shootas assault?

illuknisaa wrote:But aren't shoota boyz better because they have assault weapons (which grant +1A in cc)?

Also do you get to alpha strike if sluggas assault marines and then in the same turn shootas assault?

1. No. Assault weapons are secondary CCWs, and require a 1 handed weapon to claim the bonus you're referring to.

2. Correct.

illuknisaa wrote:Also do you get to alpha strike if sluggas assault marines and then in the same turn shootas assault?

Yeah, but why not charge with sluggas who get an I10 WS4 attack rather than a BS2 shot after combat. Extra attacks from assault weapons will only matter for nobz or warbosses without a special cc weapon.

Can orks with pk alpha strike?

No, all powerfist variants (including PK) have the "Always strikes last" rule, which is unaffected by the models initiative.

No it actually used that as an example somewhere. Units that alpha strike get I10 attacks, unless a piece of wargear says otherwise IE PK/PF make the attacks go at I1

illuknisaa wrote:

Fafnir wrote:I see Shoota Boyz being retired.

One of the main draws of the unit is that they're able to soften up their targets before ripping them to shreds in CC. Now that the Assault and Shooting phases have been reversed (I still can't understand why, makes no sense), the unit really doesn't bring much to the table. Slugga boyz are just going to be better.

I think it makes more sense if the game played by using you move, I move, you assault, I assault... method instead the usual way.

Hi,

actually , there is 1 rule where the shoota boyz could excel: Covering Fire.
This action provides Direct Hits from volume of fire. The BS has no impact here.

Take 30 Shoota Boys with 3 rokkits, give them a character (the BigMek for example) to get the special action = 60 shots > ~ 10 x 6's > ~ 3 direct hits ( which, of course, will be the rokkits) , and get rid of that pesky HQ, priest, whatever is hidding in a marine squad.
I can imagine shooting the SM with the hammer / PF, then let the Kianz or the DDread engage the unit the following turn.

// on second though, that rule actuallyt makes the shootas boyz a pretty reliable anti-tank unit, hahaha

You don't need to give them a big mek. The nob leading the shoota boyz would already be a character.

In addition, HQs squad leaders and priests tend to have a different combination of saves(people will spend points on combat shields, 'eavy armor or flakk armor to make sure of this) and thus can't be sniped. You can kill special weapons and squad leaders with identical saves, though.

But nice catch, indeed.

Oh that's right., the Nob can be a character indeed - good.
( and yeah, you re probably right about the enemy HQ, they won't be in the same saving group)

Same logic : a Burnas squad with 2 or 3 KMB (yeah, yeah, I know .... please don't shout at me) ,
The template is an automatic 6 in this Covering fire rule.
So get your burnas close to a dreadnought or a vehicule or a small-model count squad, and you have automatice 3 hits with the KMB. ...
Well, i guess that is very situational // ... and you need a character with them

XC18 wrote:Oh that's right., the Nob can be a character indeed - good.
( and yeah, you re probably right about the enemy HQ, they won't be in the same saving group)

Same logic : a Burnas squad with 2 or 3 KMB (yeah, yeah, I know .... please don't shout at me) ,
The template is an automatic 6 in this Covering fire rule.
So get your burnas close to a dreadnought or a vehicule or a small-model count squad, and you have automatice 3 hits with the KMB. ...
Well, i guess that is very situational // ... and you need a character with them

You still have to actually hit with the weapon you want to use directed fire with. You pick one of the hits made, not just any shot regardless of hitting or not.

Nope.
I don't have the pdf here, but as far as I remember, it specifically said that the direct hit is not necessarily one of the 6's
So as long as you have 3 x 6's, you have one direct hit with whichever weapon you have in the unit

That one PDF wrote:If the unit rolls at least three results of 6, the unit has laid down enough covering fire to grant one marksman a clear shot. You can choose one hit to be a Directed Hit before you proceed with the rolls to wound. This doesn’t have to be one of the hits with a result of 6.

Thus, you have to actually hit with the weapon you want to snipe with, but you don't have to roll a 6 for it as long as there's 3 6's from other weapons.

Oh ok, I misunderstood your original statement, sorry.
Hum I will double check once I am home, but I think the 3 x 6's give a direct 'HIT', so you don't to roll to hit again, you go directly to the roll to wound.
// edit : I found the rule again, and indeed I am wrong and you are right, this rule will allow you to get one direct hit among the hits you already made, nothing more. Too bad

matphat wrote:Glad to see some good back and fourth on the pros and cons of the leak on Orks.
I'm curious to see if any of this makes it to actual 6e

Indeed!
But untill I see the actual legit 6th Edition rules in my hand later this summer(ish)... Im not gonna worry!

Hmm I was thinking because modifiers for evasion don't actually modify bs but only the bs throw so wouldn't it mean orks gain bigger benefit when shooting stationary tanks than sm armies (bs 4)?

ie. sm hits a stationary tank on 2+ (tank+stationary+bs 4+1 always fails). Gains 16.67% benefit over 5th edition.

ork hits a stationary tank on 3+ (tank+stationary+bs 2). Gains 33.33% benefit over 5th edition.

A nice move for shoota boys is : engage an enemy transport on CC, crack it (thx to the PK Nob) then shoot the disembarked unit to death in the same turn.
And in case of slugga boys : don't shoot, use 'Charge by chance'.
In both cases, we are not afraid to crak an enemy transport by CC anymore,