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Kouzuki wrote:I'm not?

Not so much proud or ashamed of my hobby per say, but the hobby is part of who I am, and I am proud of who I am.

C.S. Lewis wrote:Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.
- C.S. Lewis

Basically, if you're "ashamed" of your hobby, at least for OP's reasons, grow up.

Kouzuki, please note - You realize what you did by quoting this, then saying "grow up"? The point of the CS Lewis quote is NOT caring about your OWN fears of what others think. So bludgeoning OP with what a special precious snowflake (s)he MUST be, or else (s)he is not "grown up"... This is like an infinite loop. Seriously, though, so bluntly saying grow up to the OP is not helpful in the least. That is just as spiteful and nasty as the people who laugh at adults playing with toys.

@Eilif and MajorTom11 - great posts... this is the exact point I was trying to make. I'm glad you made it more clearly!

Bigger picture, I think there may be a bit of a false dichotomous choice here. It does not have to be all in-your-face to every single person, or shamefully hiding all aspects, no in between. This is not the way social interactions work.

@OP - You can control how you feel (CS Lewis' point, BTW). You can control what you share with others. You cannot control how they choose to use that information. So it is wise to share appropriately.

Not ashamed at all. I'm proud of the models I've built and enjoy showing my work to people. I get all kinds of responses, usually "Wow! YOU painted that?!? How do you do that?"

And then I explain to them and answer questions.

Hell, I even wear my "Scale Model Addict" T-shirt at work all the time and people always say how cool it is.

What I don't understand is people who have no hobbies or a creative outlet...must be boring! What do you do, just sit around and watch TV/movies? That would suck!

bombboy1252 wrote:I'll actually bring it up in conversations sometimes. Who cares what other people think. The last conversation I had about it was something like this.

"You play with those things"

"Ya, I build and paint them, than I go to the store and play them"

"O.o .............. Wanna play Xbox"

"Sure"

Sometimes it isn't about 'caring what other people think' so much as it is 'paying any kind of attention as to whether they are interacting with you during the conversation, or whether you are just talking at them based on your enjoyment alone and generally not being good company' lol. Not pointing a finger at you specifically or anything or saying it was the case in your example btw.

But generally speaking, I find people who are into non-mainstream stuff and make it part of their identity tend to be very 'I don't care what you think' about it in a defensive way automatically. Sometimes someone isn't undermining your way of life if they aren't interested in your hobby...

This actually came up recently with me with an ex-bandmate... we were in the car driving and he put on some prog-rock stuff... I asked him to put on something else because frankly it's not my thing. He got uppity about it and started trying to explain to me why it was good and why we should keep listening blah blah blah. I just said 'Look dude, if you like this stuff then good for you, honestly. I can hear some complex music and progressions here obviously, however, I am just not in the mood for this right now. I am not saying it is bad. I am not saying my opinion is better than yours. I am just saying that since we are in the car together it could be nice if you put on something we both like instead of blasting this stuff at me when I have plainly demonstrated to you that I am not into it. Now, you have 2 choices, be cool and turn it off without feeling attacked, or be a dick and try to prove some kind of point like me liking this music or not is actually important in the scheme of things. Your move, punk.'

I see a lot of similar behavior with people in this hobby at times, the idea that if someone doesn't get it or isn't interested they are either A.) questioning your intelligence/maturity by doing so or B.) you question their intelligence or maturity by doing so lol. My big pet peave is that there is a C: Bring it up if you must, but be considerate that they have the right not to be interested and be courteous enough to spend a few seconds paying attention to their responses or lack there-of before launching into a rant, sermon or 1 sided conversation with them lol.

Gymnogyps wrote:
Kouzuki, please note - You realize what you did by quoting this, then saying "grow up"? The point of the CS Lewis quote is NOT caring about your OWN fears of what others think. So bludgeoning OP with what a special precious snowflake (s)he MUST be, or else (s)he is not "grown up"... This is like an infinite loop. Seriously, though, so bluntly saying grow up to the OP is not helpful in the least. That is just as spiteful and nasty as the people who laugh at adults playing with toys.

Then I am spiteful and nasty and laugh at people who are adults in body but only children in mind. The human race would be better off without such pathetically insecure people. I really don't see why I should dance around the matter ignoring the elephant in the room.

It's not really a problem for me as I paint more than I play. I'll happily put pictures of my finished stuff on facebook/tumblr/google+ because I draw, sketch and paint in my spare time so it's more of an artistic hobby than a "geeky" hobby :')

Tonight I brought home the new VC book, and Mrs snurl spied the price tag on it.
"It's not worth that much." she said. "why do you need it?"
It was the first time in many years that I felt a twinge of shame about my hobby. I blame GW. Firstly because they just put out a new VC book back in '09; secondly because this book cost more than twice as much than the last one did.

Not in the least ashamed, though they won't let me convert/assemble in my lunch break at work, as knives aren't allowed inside government buildings, and my scalpel set definitely counts in their books. I can paint though


I'm a gaming geek. Always was, always will be. I met my wife over a game of Vampire, she plays 40K too.

I have two gamer kids in training. My 6 year old likes playing a stripped down version of 40k with me (my orks vs mama's eldar models under her command, usually) and has a serious collection of dice. She LOVES dice.

My 2 year old has a cuddly Cthullu as a teddybear (and can pronounce Cthullu ) and knows the difference between space marines, tyranids, eldar, dark eldar, orks (she calls them 'urks' ) and Daemons (though not the unit names of course, yet...)

Embarrassed by my hobby, no.

Embarrassed by some gamers, definitely. I had a non-gamer friend and my mother-in-law (non-gamer) in the FLGS with me a bit back, and had a smelly reprobate loudly try to sell his theory why Mareeenz are the ONLY army worth a damn, and why the Emprah will stomp all others into dust etc etc ad nauseam, which left them a bit wierded out....

Wargaming is easy. Try explaining live action role-playing. When my wargaming friends wonder why I'm not going to be around for a weekend, I just tell them that I'm camping. It's simply easier.

I don't typically offer up information about my hobbies, but I usually don't have a problem explaining if someone is interested. It is really only problematic when the person asking about it has no frame of reference. With wargaming, it is easy to explain in a way that makes sense to someone who has no idea about it, so I find that it is relatively easy to talk about. With a few seconds of explanation, most people are able to feel like they understand what wargaming is.

On game nights, I usually leave for the FLGS straight from work, and I never leave my precious little guys sitting in a hot car all day, so my co-workers all have some idea about what I do in my spare time. Virtually everyone I have encountered hasn't demonstrated any stigma about it.

I actively avoid talking about LARPing, and I usually steer away from conversations about it, unless someone is genuinely curious. Again, like I said before, it is mostly about frame of reference. LARPing is difficult to explain quickly and simply, so people are left feeling like there's something weird about it. Role-playing in general has similar negative stereotypes associated with it as wargaming, but LARPing involves wearing a costume. Putting on a costume, any costume, is a transformative experience, and therefore potentially threatening. Everyone well understands the powerful transformative aspects of wearing a costume, even if they can't articulate that understanding. Because costuming is so powerful, it is associated with a great deal of social and psychological baggage, not the least of which is that costume play is typically viewed as the province of childhood, a period of life when identity is very fluid.

Wargaming is a craft and a game, so is role-playing. Live action role-playing is both of these things as well, but part of it is acted out on the field of a participant's physical body. I would argue that this distinction alone makes it more difficult to discuss than wargaming or table-top role-playing.

Genre is also significant, because it relates to frame of reference. I would bet that anyone that plays a historical game like Flames of War has an easier time talking about it than Warhammer. People "get" a historical wargame more quickly because there is a common frame of reference. So too is historical reenactment easier to explain than live action role-playing. The two are very similar. I would even argue that reenactment would raise more eyebrows than playing Flames of War (it involves costuming after all). Yet like a historical wargame, reenactment is based on a common frame of reference. Oh, you dress up like a Civil War soldier. I get it. We both know what the Civil War is without having to explain it. It is easier to therefore grasp what the point of the costuming is. The activity seems more "mundane," and therefore less weird or threatening.

I used to LARP too.

The only thing nearby where i live now is American Civil War though, which doesn't really interest me.

I used to wear my Larp gear to work on Haloween

I am a engineering manager at work pulled over $200k last year. I have played in several countries and always take an army with me on business. I tell work there are a few weekends I will never work like adepticon. I have 4 chaos land raiders on my shelf at work.

ashamed no way. I have been playing 40k for 20 year. it is me. At 37, I can still drink most people under the table. if you enjoy it be proud about it. people who poke fun are silly and you really don't want to hang with them.

Not ashamed at all. I felt enough shame like that in high school, now I don't put much thought into what people think (Unless they sign my paycheck).

I don't volunteer anything about it but I'll gladly talk about it if it gets brought up.

You wouldn't care so much about what people think about you if you knew how much they didn't.

1: Does my wife care? No, she even plays
2: Does anyone else's opinion matter? No, they can all go DIAF.
3:???
4: Profit

I'm not ashamed of my hobbies at all. In fact most people pay compliments to my painting even if they don't grasp the gaming aspect of it.

Considering I read the army books in the middle of class, no. Why should I care what random people I'm not even going to remember think of me? As for judgmental "friends", they aren't really your friends if they can't accept you.

Considering I read the army books in the middle of class, no.

This is both the coolest and most worrying comment I've read in this thread.

n0t_u wrote:We've all had that talk at one point or the other. It's even more fun if it's SoB.

"So that unit costs over $200?"
"Yes, but I brought it online back when they still came in a box and it was only $40"

Yeah... I'm right there with you on that... lol

I got into 40k just before they did that to the sisters... my favorite army now... so glad I stopped collecting my SM as quickly as I did and got into the army I really like at the time.


As for being ashamed... uh no. I'm not ashamed one bit...

My folks asked me about it a long time ago... gave me a heavy sigh and said "How old are you?" and I responded with "uh... I'm old enough to know that I charge people commissions to paint their stuff for them... and I make a plenty doing that..."

They've been supportive ever since, lol.

The girlfriend plays too, so I don't have to worry on that end... her brother plays... her parents are really supportive of her hobby too... going as far as getting her paints and models too...

All and all, imo, there is no shame in this hobby... least not any more than say... playing video games or something... which I do as well. It's a hobby... that's all. Some people obsess over sports or their cars or stereo equipment, guns, computers, gadgets... everyone is passionate about something... anyone who doesn't understand that fact, just hasn't considered it yet, or is too close minded to do so.

I don't hide the hobby at all, nor am I ashamed of it. I will bring a rulebook, armybook, BL novel, or something else related to one of the games I play to work and read it there. I met a couple guys who play at work and one of them is now one of my most regular opponents. Also found a couple people at work that I play WoW, SWTOR, and DDO with. If you hide your hobby you might be missing out on finding other like-minded individuals and new people to play against.

As far as talking to other people about it I usually go in stages. If they see me reading a rulebook or something similar it usually goes something like this:

Them: "What is Warhammer/Warmachine/Flames of War/Infinity?"
Me: "It's a game I play, simulating battles with little minatures."

From that point on I am happy to continue to talk and answer any questions they have. If the answer is a basic "Ok" and it seems like they were just striking up polite conversation then I won' t push any further talk about it.

Sometimes it is not only about not being ashamed of the hobby, sometimes you also need to be careful not to become a hobby hipster. "I play Warhammer, you probably never heard about it so I'm going to tell you everything about it."

CallsignNeptune wrote:I remember recently I was at a house party and happened to be chatting to a friend from back in my school days, I was telling her I had gotten into Warhammer and how much I was loving it. She didn't mind at all, however another girl overheard us and immediately started taking the mick out of me for liking it. .................

Something similar happened to me many years ago when a friends sister tried to take the mickey when I was chatting her friend up. She has used her information so i used mine and asked if a single mum like herself might be better served looking for a new partner or at least looking after her kids rather than talking rubbish in the pub. Then I had a fumble with her mate in the car park.

Kouzuki wrote:I'm not?

Not so much proud or ashamed of my hobby per say, but the hobby is part of who I am, and I am proud of who I am.

Basically, if you're "ashamed" of your hobby, at least for OP's reasons, grow up.

And there you have, the enlightened opinion of the faceless internet..."grow up". What's kinda ironic about that statement, is that it's a mirror of the wide view that people hold of those who "indulge" in wargaming and miniatures in general, they all seem to agree that we should all "grow up".

A person could respond by saying to be grown up, one has to be aware of their environment. Saying that you don't give a rats ass for the opinions of others, because they don't align to your ideals could be considered quite childish.

I agree that all pastimes and hobbies can be judged as being somewhat childish to a degree, from motorsports all the way down to clay pigeon shooting. To say that one hobby is cooler than another is madness, not to mention ignorant. I think the key to this is being able to explain or defend your decision to be part of a hobby.

Right now, most wargames are or appear to be aimed at children, especially as it's an ever expanding market! To me, that is one of the big embarresments about wargaming, as a grown man, I have to explain why I'm effectively paying with kids toys. Go to any GW, the majority of bodies in there haven't been on the earth more than ten years. People see you engaging in the activities that captivate the mind of a ten year old and question your ability to engage in more adult persuits. The other thing, as some people have alluded to, is the guilt by association. Be honest, what do most people think when they walk past a GW and see a grown man, in his long leather goth jacket, standing in amoungst a see of 10 year olds? A passing woman is most likely not going to think, hmm, he could be the father of my children, she probably thinks he shares the mental age of the folks around him, or worse......

To ignore these factors, I think, is to bury your head in the sand, and to me, that in itself implies a degree of geekyness.

I think a more pertinent question is: "Why do you assume that I'm ashamed of my hobby?"

I'm not ashamed of my hobby. However, like other people have mentioned, I won't bring it up out of the blue for no reason. Just like I won't bring up any other facet of my life for no reason. Knowing your audience is key.

If someone's shallow enough to judge me based on what hobbies I enjoy, then they're most likely not someone worth wasting any time on.

Nobody cares.

Honestly, I just came back from town and not one person in the high street asked if I was into wargaming.

I didnt shout from the rooftops that I liked painting and moving those army men across a table either...maybe I should have.

I have noticed a distinct lack of people caring when I exit gaming stores too. These same people don't care when I put eggs and bread in my shopping basket either.

Strange.

Egg and bread eh?...but no bacon... Weird.

From selling on ebay, straight to the hobby itself I eat breathe and live it. I am not one bit ashamed of it.

I used to be a beefcake which allowed me some room when it came to my hobbies. In fact when I scoffed at a "nerd" when I saw he and others playing 40k.... or Mech Warrior ... his response was don't knock til you try it. I was impresses with the fact that he stood up to me and figures he might just be right. Ever since then, I not only talk about miniatures collecting, I bring the stuff to work sometimes. Hopefully this comes out right. I am on my cell in an LMTV.

Skits wrote:I think a more pertinent question is: "Why do you assume that I'm ashamed of my hobby?"

I'm not ashamed of my hobby. However, like other people have mentioned, I won't bring it up out of the blue for no reason. Just like I won't bring up any other facet of my life for no reason. Knowing your audience is key.

If someone's shallow enough to judge me based on what hobbies I enjoy, then they're most likely not someone worth wasting any time on.

I don't assume anything. If you're proud of your hobby to the extent that you don't feel you need to deny or hide your involvement in it then more power to you, but guess what, this thread was obviously not intended for you.

However, thank you for your input!

I have lived on this mudball for 35 years. In that time I have done amazing things, several of them not suited to mention on this thread or board. I count my hobby as part of what makes my life interesting. I tell anyone who asks me about what I like doing and if they recoil in horror, then that is a problem with them and their narrow view of the 'normal'. I dismiss such people from my consideration and move on. Because those same people who think you're a nerd are the ones who I regard as a bland, a person who never dares or does, the people who's viewing pleasure never stretches beyond X factor and who's only conversation is the current celebrity break-up and/or football scores.

On planet Stompa, the only insult that matters is from a person who matters, the rest are dross and their words are worthless hot air.

I am their better.

**insert haters gonna hate gif. here**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I have lived on this mudball for 35 years. In that time I have done amazing things, several of them not suited to mention on this thread or board. I count my hobby as part of what makes my life interesting. I tell anyone who asks me about what I like doing and if they recoil in horror, then that is a problem with them and their narrow view of the 'normal'. I dismiss such people from my consideration and move on. Because those same people who think you're a nerd are the ones who I regard as a bland, a person who never dares or does, the people who's viewing pleasure never stretches beyond X factor and who's only conversation is the current celebrity break-up and/or football scores.

On planet Stompa, the only insult that matters is from a person who matters, the rest are dross and their words are worthless hot air.

I am their better.

**insert haters gonna hate gif. here**

Well said.

VanHammer wrote:Im not ashamed but I dont talk about it much because from my experience, 90% of people in this hobby are not the kind of people I like to hang out with.

NoArmorSave wrote:
Not everyone that plays it is what you would call a "geek". I am a cool, normal person that plays it. Let's see:
1 - I drive a Mercedes
2 - I wear Oakley sunglasses and clothing
3 - I hold 3 different blackbelts in martial arts, and used to compete in MMA events
4 - I used to Wakeboard a lot
5 - I used to play professional level Paintball
6 - I own an Old English Bulldog
7 - I used to be a bartender, with a large clientele
8 - I have no problem with the opposite sex
9 - I believe I can get anyone excited about battling it out on the tables of the 41st millenium.

Sorry but none of those things makes a person "cool", especially the first two.
An easy way to tell if someone is NOT "cool" is because they like to tell people how cool they think they are.

Dude, I am not trying to tell people "how cool" I am. This is a discussion thread about how folks are ashamed of the hobby. It's not like I posted a thread and said
"Look at me, I am cool, and here is why". My message was to demonstrate that "Normal" people play the game, and are proud of it. I don't believe people should
be ashamed of this hobby.

While I am not afraid of talking about it, I hate being put on the spot about it.

Too many times I have tried to talk about it with someone who wasn't taking me seriously and didn't realize it until its too late. So I don't talk about it openly or much when I have been asked.

Im just ashamed because of the common stereotypes that people picture wargamers would be like and the fact that its game about miniatures. People instantly think that they are some kind of toys, which really annoys me.

NoArmorSave wrote:

VanHammer wrote:Im not ashamed but I dont talk about it much because from my experience, 90% of people in this hobby are not the kind of people I like to hang out with.

NoArmorSave wrote:
Not everyone that plays it is what you would call a "geek". I am a cool, normal person that plays it. Let's see:
1 - I drive a Mercedes
2 - I wear Oakley sunglasses and clothing
3 - I hold 3 different blackbelts in martial arts, and used to compete in MMA events
4 - I used to Wakeboard a lot
5 - I used to play professional level Paintball
6 - I own an Old English Bulldog
7 - I used to be a bartender, with a large clientele
8 - I have no problem with the opposite sex
9 - I believe I can get anyone excited about battling it out on the tables of the 41st millenium.

Sorry but none of those things makes a person "cool", especially the first two.
An easy way to tell if someone is NOT "cool" is because they like to tell people how cool they think they are.

Dude, I am not trying to tell people "how cool" I am. This is a discussion thread about how folks are ashamed of the hobby. It's not like I posted a thread and said
"Look at me, I am cool, and here is why". My message was to demonstrate that "Normal" people play the game, and are proud of it. I don't believe people should
be ashamed of this hobby.

Some might argue Oakley's are not all that, and professional paintball won't dig you out of any nerd-holes either

Some!

The point is I suppose everyone, nerd or not, will have different ideas on what 'cool' is... no matter what it is about yourself you are comfortable/uncomfortable with, so long as you try not to be obnoxious about it in general you should be ok. Driving a Merc is never a bad thing though