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Soladrin wrote:Btw, the pistol you were talkinga bout...



.223 Pistol is all it was called. fired .223 FMJ rounds.

That thing was Badass. And the sound it made...

corpsesarefun wrote:Graphics won't make a bad game good but they are vital to my immersion in an RPG, in a game I enjoy purely for the mechanics I can deal with minimal graphics.

TES is far less immersive than Fallout. The former is just an MMORPG without other players, Fallout has an actual world with your place in it.

I go for TES.
Ive been busy for 2 years with Oblivion
Skyrim, 'ere we go!

Good god, how can you stand Oblivion for that long? I found it got incredibly boring after a short period of time.

Joey wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Btw, the pistol you were talkinga bout...



.223 Pistol is all it was called. fired .223 FMJ rounds.

That thing was Badass. And the sound it made...

corpsesarefun wrote:Graphics won't make a bad game good but they are vital to my immersion in an RPG, in a game I enjoy purely for the mechanics I can deal with minimal graphics.

TES is far less immersive than Fallout. The former is just an MMORPG without other players, Fallout has an actual world with your place in it.

I disagree, for me it was the other way around. I got WAY too into oblivion for my own good, but when it came to fallout it just didn't seem like the immersive world that Oblivion was.

bombboy1252 wrote:

Joey wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Btw, the pistol you were talkinga bout...



.223 Pistol is all it was called. fired .223 FMJ rounds.

That thing was Badass. And the sound it made...

corpsesarefun wrote:Graphics won't make a bad game good but they are vital to my immersion in an RPG, in a game I enjoy purely for the mechanics I can deal with minimal graphics.

TES is far less immersive than Fallout. The former is just an MMORPG without other players, Fallout has an actual world with your place in it.

I disagree, for me it was the other way around. I got WAY too into oblivion for my own good, but when it came to fallout it just didn't seem like the immersive world that Oblivion was.

You didn't find being able to do the arena at level 2 unimmersive, at all?
Or the fething constantly strange social interaction of the AI?

My biggest problem with Oblivion and Skyrim so far is the guild quests.

You don't need any of the skills that the guild is designed for.

Mages guild, grab a single staff and your done. Warriors guild, can you kill stuff? Your done.

Thieves guild? Invis potion/spell.

I'd have liked some actuall skill tests.

Yea thats how it was in Morrowind, and a reason why I loved it so much. You wanted to continue in the theives guild? Well you better get out there and start picking some damn locks and go for a sneak across the continent to get those skills up. It was fantastic.

You didn't find being able to do the arena at level 2 unimmersive, at all

Yea, agreed completely. I beat the main quest line, at lvl 10 I think. 10! I read somewhere the best/fastest it was done at lvl 7. Im sorry, but a Dremora, no matter HOW lowly it is, should completely own an adventurer at those lvls. I think the worst part of Oblivion was the scaling it did. Just ruined the damn game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yea thats how it was in Morrowind, and a reason why I loved it so much. You wanted to continue in the theives guild? Well you better get out there and start picking some damn locks and go for a sneak across the continent to get those skills up. It was fantastic.

You didn't find being able to do the arena at level 2 unimmersive, at all

Yea, agreed completely. I beat the main quest line, at lvl 10 I think. 10! I read somewhere the best/fastest it was done at lvl 7. Im sorry, but a Dremora, no matter HOW lowly it is, should completely own an adventurer at those lvls. I think the worst part of Oblivion was the scaling it did. Just ruined the damn game. Im pretty sure if a bandit could afford all Ebony armor, he would of gotten out of the game years ago

Joey wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Btw, the pistol you were talkinga bout...



.223 Pistol is all it was called. fired .223 FMJ rounds.

That thing was Badass. And the sound it made...

corpsesarefun wrote:Graphics won't make a bad game good but they are vital to my immersion in an RPG, in a game I enjoy purely for the mechanics I can deal with minimal graphics.

TES is far less immersive than Fallout. The former is just an MMORPG without other players, Fallout has an actual world with your place in it.

Fantasy world =/= MMORPG and that's a poor quality reason for claiming all fantasy RPG's aren't immersive.

Soladrin wrote:My biggest problem with Oblivion and Skyrim so far is the guild quests.

You don't need any of the skills that the guild is designed for.

Mages guild, grab a single staff and your done. Warriors guild, can you kill stuff? Your done.

Thieves guild? Invis potion/spell.

I'd have liked some actuall skill tests.

A year ago I'd have said that was stupid but after getting into DnD I wholeheartedly agree, it would be nice to require some specialisation to do the guild quests and requiring specialisation would mean the quests could be harder (the later thieves guild quests were a faceroll with high sneak).

corpsesarefun wrote:
Fantasy world =/= MMORPG and that's a poor quality reason for claiming all fantasy RPG's aren't immersive.

Of course not, hence Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, et al.
Notice that these games are not festooned with "hidden" dungeons that are 2 minutes' walk from a major population centre. And just try taking on a dragon strait out of Irenicus' Dungeon...
If BG2 was an Elder Scrolls game you'd have been able to become head of all the class-specific organisations, which the game designers specifically did NOT do (though you can mod it in).
There also wouldn't have been any of the beautiful isometric artwork.
Oh wait, this thread is about Fallout...I actually quite liked New Vegas. If it had a few larger cities with more organisation quests it would have been seriously decent.

The one problem with Oblivion was the scaled enemies, made it so their was NO challenge. But that's why theirs mods like OOO and MMM

Well they were all easy, except bandits like I was saying. It just didnt make sense that a petty road bandit would have fething full Ebony and Daedric weapons. I really like how they did it in Skyrim as far as that goes. They can only get so tough, after that, your going to just walk through a camp of bandits

Joey wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:
Fantasy world =/= MMORPG and that's a poor quality reason for claiming all fantasy RPG's aren't immersive.

Of course not, hence Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, et al.
Notice that these games are not festooned with "hidden" dungeons that are 2 minutes' walk from a major population centre. And just try taking on a dragon strait out of Irenicus' Dungeon...
If BG2 was an Elder Scrolls game you'd have been able to become head of all the class-specific organisations, which the game designers specifically did NOT do (though you can mod it in).
There also wouldn't have been any of the beautiful isometric artwork.
Oh wait, this thread is about Fallout...I actually quite liked New Vegas. If it had a few larger cities with more organisation quests it would have been seriously decent.

Admittedly I do prefer fallouts method of having relatively few vaults but loads of overworld content rather than the 12 dungeons per square metre of skyrim.

Still the MMO comparison is pretty forced.

Love the post apoc. senario of Fallout 3 but love the depth and detail of Elder Scrolls. Too tough to call, I'm torn!

So I started with FO3 and Morrowind, but since have gone back to catch up on FO1, FO2, FO Tactics, Arena, and Daggerfall. Of course I've played Skyrim and NV. Honestly Morrowind was amazing, but I liked the addition of fast travel in oblivion although it wasn't done right until skyrim. I loved the feel of FO3 but I like the customablity and ammo types of NV, but I don't like the feel of the Mojave. FO1 I hated the time limit on the game. To be honest I was about to give up on FO3 then broken steel came out. I love open endings. With all that said they each have their own place for me. One is Sci-fi and the other is fantasy. I don't think I could pick one or the other.

Akroma06 wrote:FO1 I hated the time limit on the game

You must have not gotten very far. Once you find the water chip the timer goes away and you're free to do whatever.

Necroshea wrote:

Akroma06 wrote:FO1 I hated the time limit on the game

You must have not gotten very far. Once you find the water chip the timer goes away and you're free to do whatever.

And even then, you can extend the time limit by convincing the water merchants to give the vault some water. Its really expensive though, like 2000 caps.
Hell, you don't even need the extension. Just head east from the Hub, and you should get to the necropolis.

Be sure to have decent speechcraft, it makes that part a breeze. Otherwise you need to be decent in mechanics, and ofcourse killing things.

Necroshea wrote:Be sure to have decent speechcraft, it makes that part a breeze. Otherwise you need to be decent in mechanics, and ofcourse killing things.

What, to get the chip from necro?
You don't actually need that high of a repair skill. You could just use spare parts to fix the machine (or just nick the chip)
I am not sure if you need a high speech skill to trick harry into letting you in though.

You may be right. It's been quite a awhile since I played that game, so the precise details may elude me. I just remember having to talk my way through a mutant or two, and using my mechanical skills with spare parts to fix the machine.

Then again you could just be evil, take the chip by force, and let necropolis die.

You can speed run FO1 in 11 minutes anyway...

And getting the waterchip was piss easy.

Also, I loved punching the Deathclaw Mother to death with my powerfist, or super sledge, melee characters were awesome in that game. Slayer perk... all attacks are crit, yes please.

Yea one thing that I will admit is a sucky thing with FO games, is if you go full blown INT, in no time at all, your a supreme badass from all the skillpoints you get

My maxed out INT + PER character wasn't complaining...

Yea, that build is nearly broken....if I didnt like it so much. Uh oh, a read tic mark, sneak for 5 days, look through scope, POW! Dead, continue on with my day

BioShock is one of my favorite games. Give it a try.

Fallout / Elder Scrolls isn't that easy. They are different enough that each is great on it's own merits.

A better comparison would be Fallout vs Borderlands. (Fallout wins slightly IMO)

feeder wrote:BioShock is one of my favorite games. Give it a try.

Fallout / Elder Scrolls isn't that easy. They are different enough that each is great on it's own merits.

A better comparison would be Fallout vs Borderlands. (Fallout wins slightly IMO)

Fallout blows Borderlands out of the water.......

Borderlands was the most boring game ever made unless you played Co-op with a friend, even then the story was boring and we would just shoot EVERYTHING.

I started with Morrowind. Oh, how I was obsessed with that game. I beat literally every single quest in the game that was possible (You couldn't do every house quest in one playthrough, for example, but other than that, I went through the strategy guide and marked them off one by one). My character was godlike, with 100s in everything and a health regeneration rate so high I literally couldn't die (Ridiculous enchantments broke this in every way possible). gak, I knew nearly every NPC by name and exactly where to find them, and I even remember some of the in-game literature word for word (seeing some of it again in Skyrim had me overjoyed). I played through Morrowind the first time at around 4 frames per second. That's how obsessed I was with it. It was my life for literally months.

It still holds a place in my heart (as well as my record for total gameplay hours), and I doubt I'll ever be quite so enthralled by a game ever again. There was something about the aesthetics of it that just...clicked, even if it doesn't make for a very groundbreaking game in this age. The beautiful art direction and vision, the momentous soundtrack, the intricate quests, the way it didn't hold your hand and expected some manner of intelligence out of the player, and the way it was the first videogame to create a completely convincing world, self-sustained with it's own politics, religions, and lore. Once you've experienced all that for the first time, it's hard for your jaw to drop quite as low at anything else.

Since then, I've played every game in both series, and I have to say that I respect both Fallout and The Elder Scrolls for completely different reasons. If I had to pick one, I'd definitely say TES just because of the investment I made in Morrowind, but not without giving both series their fair due.

In Fallout, I tend to actually roleplay more, because of the perk system and the alignment system. I enjoy creating new characters just for the hell of it, and I try to think from my character's perspective. I wear items because I like the look of them and I feel like they fit the character I'm playing, not because of the damage mitigation or bonuses to stats.

In The Elder Scrolls, I power game like no other. I pick the most effective possible build I can. I screw people over, steal everything I need to without giving it a second thought, and basically try my hardest to break the game and find every workaround possible just to get the most out of it without actually cheating. I try to max out EVERYTHING (In Daggerfall, Morrowind, and especially Oblivion, this is a major spreadsheet nightmare, but I felt it was worth the effort just to say that I did it), and if I can't max out everything, I at least try to have a balance of skills so I can at least do everything. I rerolled on Oblivion multiple times to avoid needless skill spending so I could get every stat to 100. I do find myself roleplaying a bit more in Skyrim, at least based on my character's race, because politics play a bigger role than before, the radial quest system can really screw you over in some instances when you do something stupid, and the perk trees don't allow you to become a god at every conceivable skill.

The setting of Fallout is more immediately interesting. It combines several interesting aesthetics in a brilliant way, but the backstory doesn't hold much water and I find myself not really caring that much because the entire premise is pretty silly. I can say that I was genuinely disturbed more than once while playing Fallout 3 (New Vegas never managed to give me the same feeling, though it wasn't trying nearly as hard to do so), which is a pleasant surprise from a fps/rpg hybrid in general. The rest of the series is a bit too...goofy to me. It's pretty hard for me to take it seriously or study it intently.

The Elder Scrolls may seem like generic fantasy at first glance (especially if you're one of the sad many that started off with Oblivion). However, the lore is so carefully crafted and intricately woven, and is put forth with such a human element (that almost all high fantasy lacks) that it's really hard not to dive headfirst into it. I also enjoy how it revels in the morbid, and most every occurance is some sort of shade of gray. Things feel more realistic that way than the purely black and white world of Fallout. It is the most convincing and engaging fantasy that I can honestly think of, in any form of fiction, and such care is put into it's creation that I can't help but marvel at it. It doesn't hurt that the art direction is absolutely flawless (at least in the cases of Morrowind and Skyrim).

Quests in Fallout are always long, drawn-out affairs with really good writing that always tend to involve some sort of moral dilemma. The problem is, they are so scarce that it's difficult to feel like part of an actual community (Though the faction system in NV filled this gap to a great degree). Also, there's absolutely no minutae or bite sized undertakings, everything is funneling into these huge quests that you always seem to be in the middle of.

The quests in The Elder Scrolls tend to be just as clever, but much more varied and random. I never feel like I'm playing the same game as someone else because all of the undertakings that I just happen to run into. There's always something to pick from, depending on my mood and the amount of time I think I have. Also, the wide variety of the quests help TES feel like a real world, as opposed to just a pretty awesome set piece for a handful of huge, intricate quests. Some of it might be a bit of a waste of time, but it still speaks volumes as to how much more choice you have within the world of The Elder Scrolls.

I would speak more about the leveling systems in both games, but Skyrim clearly blows every RPG to date out of the water on this regard. It's a truly genius system that eliminates spreadsheeting while enhancing player choice. I will say that I enjoyed Fallout 3 waaaaay more than Oblivion, just because I didn't have to worry about keeping track of my stats and meticulously grinding just to min/max my character. I could just play the game. But Skyrim manages to have the best of both worlds, so Fallout's system would seem absolutely archaic and counter-intuitive if it weren't for the more definitive perks.

In closing, they're both great series that just keep getting better with time, but I have a special place in my heart for The Elder Scrolls.

Ive played all in the fallout seris and only the last 3 elder scrolls games.

Personally i love the fallout universe and would choose it every time i think bethesda has done a fine job and think people who harp on about fallout 2 need to move on.

One thing I've noticed about the fallout series is that to me, fallout 1 and 2 were gritty, somewhat depressing games. From the moment you start the game til you finish it, you rarely if ever get happy endings. If you missed a chain of quests in a location, you get to watch at the end how because you forgot to intervene that place got destroyed by bandits or super mutants. In some cases it's BECAUSE you intervened that the place got destroyed. Per cannon, all of the allies you get in the first game die. Even after all the good you do, at the end of the first one you still get something of a bad ending. This kind of gameplay continued, but it seemed to die out a little as the games went on. Fallout 3 had some disturbing bits, but it didn't quite feel as hopeless as the first 2. New Vegas is basically saying "We're colonizing everything, all is good, we just have to kill off a pesky faction first".

I like the idea of a game world where even after so long, it's inhabitants still can't quite get to grips with whatever tragedy happened. It's kind of the same way with the Pirates of the Caribbean movies for me. It was fine until the last one, where it was blatantly pointed out that the setting is dying. I watched the movie because I like the setting, and having it evolve into something else generally kills it for me.

Just to go off-topic quickly, how many felt Rage was a cheap-o version of Fallout 3 ?

Anyway back on topic, never really got into the Fallout series, but I did get into TES,I remember Daggerfall been epic and very buggy but you could buy a horse and cart!
plus you wait till night in a shop and steal all the gear you wanted, loved that bug!

Ravenblade666 wrote:Just to go off-topic quickly, how many felt Rage was a cheap-o version of Fallout 3 ?

I felt like RAGE was a really expensive version of Mad Max.