Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Melissia wrote:So you're saying that communism is extreme right wing?
Pure communism is utopian and has no leader class.
If we're discussing Soviet Socialism, on the other hand, then an interesting debate develops.
Left-wing in intent but right-wing in action, perhaps?
Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.
Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
The problem is that the definition does not indicate economic positions, only social ones.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Also, while the argument is correct, political pressure is the important thing, one exerts political pressure by voting (among other things), which often means kicking people out of office.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Traditionally, I'm on the right.
Currently, I'm more confused than as to anything and I sort of meander through a series of contradictions that I'm trying to make sense of.
Luco wrote:Traditionally, I'm on the right.
Currently, I'm more confused than as to anything and I sort of meander through a series of contradictions that I'm trying to make sense of.
Left and right is a silly method to describe where you stand politically.
For example Nazis are considered right, although they share most of their goals with communists and are a socialist worker party.
On the other hand ,,Liberal" should be the exact opposite of Socialist and the conservatives in the middle. Making Liberal ,,right", libertarians/Anarchists extreme right.
Much better (sorry only found it for german parties) is to consider where you stand between the three poitical ideologies:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/25 13:04:19
Dark Scipio wrote:Left and right is a silly method to describe where you stand politically.
For example Nazis are considered right, although they share most of their goals with communists and are a socialist worker party.
On the other hand ,,Liberal" should be the exact opposite of Socialist and the conservatives in the middle. Making Liberal ,,right", libertarians/Anarchists extreme right.
Much better (sorry only found it for german parties) is to consider where you stand between the three poitical ideologies:
The Nazis adopted the term "Socialist" in order to appeal to the out-of-work masses. In reality, although they took elements of their party structure and organisation from the Bolsheviks, they were solidly conservative in their political outlook, and no, they don't share most of their goals with communists.
Communists see no divisions other than the division of class, which they want to do away with and in doing so, create a classless utopia. This is, of course, unworkable.
Nazis see divisions of both race and class, and believe in a warped mixture of eugenics and Nietzchian philosophy, essentially wishing to create a stronger 'breed' of human. In addition, they believe that this race ties in with their nationality, and that somehow this sense of nationality is their strongest form of indentity. Again, their beliefs are unworkable when examined.
Also, how are Liberals the extreme opposite of Communists? They're in the middle of the scale, with hardline Conservatives and extreme Nationalists on the right.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/25 13:12:42
Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.
Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
Dark Scipio wrote:Much better (sorry only found it for german parties) is to consider where you stand between the three poitical ideologies:
There's more than three.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Dark Scipio wrote:Left and right is a silly method to describe where you stand politically.
For example Nazis are considered right, although they share most of their goals with communists and are a socialist worker party.
On the other hand ,,Liberal" should be the exact opposite of Socialist and the conservatives in the middle. Making Liberal ,,right", libertarians/Anarchists extreme right.
Much better (sorry only found it for german parties) is to consider where you stand between the three poitical ideologies:
The Nazis adopted the term "Socialist" in order to appeal to the out-of-work masses. In reality, although they took elements of their party structure and organisation from the Bolsheviks, they were solidly conservative in their political outlook, and no, they don't share most of their goals with communists.
Communists see no divisions other than the division of class, which they want to do away with and in doing so, create a classless utopia. This is, of course, unworkable.
Nazis see divisions of both race and class, and believe in a warped mixture of eugenics and Nietzchian philosophy, essentially wishing to create a stronger 'breed' of human. In addition, they believe that this race ties in with their nationality, and that somehow this sense of nationality is their strongest form of indentity. Again, their beliefs are unworkable when examined.
Also, how are Liberals the extreme opposite of Communists? They're in the middle of the scale, with hardline Conservatives and extreme Nationalists on the right.
Hitler was going to introduce the Pension. He had other radical ideas. For Example, Companies were not allowed to leach of fellow citizens. How much of the Nazis do you actually know of except for the Holocaust? You are seeing Socialist but today's stand point. Hitler was seen as Socialist back then, maybe if 50 years time you might be considered Fascist.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/25 16:24:29
It's intresting in the states. What they see as "Left" in the U.S is actually quite right to World Standards. Now if the Americans saw what most people out side the U.S consider Left wing, they'd be running for the hills screaming "COMMUNIST"!
I consider my self very left, I am also very socialist, some might consider me a communist, the American I was having a conversation with the other day ago sure did!
Banished, from my own homeland. And now you dare enter my realm?... you are not prepared.
dogma wrote:Did she at least have a nice rack?
Love it! Play Chaos Dwarfs, Dwarfs, Brets and British FoW (Canadian Rifle and Armoured)
broodstar wrote:Wow learn something every day. That actually brings a whole lot of global issues into prospective. A lot of Americans believe our President is an insane Communist and quiet frankly I agree, but if he is considered normal around the EU maybe he is not as crazy as we think although Greece does make Liberalism look bad.
Obama a communist? Hes a wind up artist just like the first minister of Scotland (Oh ill invite myself to everywhere and anywhere, and if you don't like it your racist.)
But honestly I was liberal (kinda middle) but now I am more middle left. ( hate to say this but Tony Blair was the best prime minister we ever had!)
Dark Scipio wrote:Left and right is a silly method to describe where you stand politically.
For example Nazis are considered right, although they share most of their goals with communists and are a socialist worker party.
On the other hand ,,Liberal" should be the exact opposite of Socialist and the conservatives in the middle. Making Liberal ,,right", libertarians/Anarchists extreme right.
Much better (sorry only found it for german parties) is to consider where you stand between the three poitical ideologies:
The Nazis adopted the term "Socialist" in order to appeal to the out-of-work masses. In reality, although they took elements of their party structure and organisation from the Bolsheviks, they were solidly conservative in their political outlook, and no, they don't share most of their goals with communists.
Communists see no divisions other than the division of class, which they want to do away with and in doing so, create a classless utopia. This is, of course, unworkable.
Nazis see divisions of both race and class, and believe in a warped mixture of eugenics and Nietzchian philosophy, essentially wishing to create a stronger 'breed' of human. In addition, they believe that this race ties in with their nationality, and that somehow this sense of nationality is their strongest form of indentity. Again, their beliefs are unworkable when examined.
Also, how are Liberals the extreme opposite of Communists? They're in the middle of the scale, with hardline Conservatives and extreme Nationalists on the right.
Hitler was going to introduce the Pension. He had other radical ideas. For Example, Companies were not allowed to leach of fellow citizens. How much of the Nazis do you actually know of except for the Holocaust? You are seeing Socialist but today's stand point. Hitler was seen as Socialist back then, maybe if 50 years time you might be considered Fascist.
I study history at a degree level, and enjoy looking at that part of history in particular. so I think I know a bit more than "THE NAZIS DID THE HOLOCAUST," thanks.
For the most part, it cannot be argued that the Nazis were anything other than extreme-right Nationalists, something Socialism does not promote by it's own definition, the definitions set down by Karl Marx in the 1800s.
So yeah, sorry to trample over your arguments, but although Hitler certainly did implement things that were Left in nature, the inclusion of policies to do with nationality pretty much cut him out of the Socialist camp, in the same way that Stalin is a questionable Socialist at best due to his policies.
Melissia wrote:Stopping power IS a deterrent. The bigger a hole you put in them the more deterred they are.
Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
I'm socially ultra-liberal on many issues: I'm pro-gay rights, anti-racism, pro-decriminalisation of narcotics (where practical), pro-choice with regards to abortion, pro-euthanasia (in fact, I believe that suicide should probably be legal as a matter of course). In fact, we should seek to limit the impact of the state upon our personal lives as much as is possible, whilst still maintaing a pragmatic approach to governance.
On the flip-side, I believe that if the will of the people is that some crimes should be punishable by death, then that's something we should take seriously. I believe in liberal imperialism, and also that our international outlook should be overwhelmingly nationalistic, placing British sovereignty above all external considerations. I believe very strongly in secularism - religion should recieve no favourable treatment by the state, though people should be free to practice their religion privately. I'm a royalist, and believe that our system of constitutional monarchy is something to be proud of, though some might argue that this is directly in conflict with my belief in secularism, for obvious reasons.
Basically, I'm part of a rising tide of modernist Tories. I expect libertarianism to enter the national agenda in a big way over the next decade or two - it's the only logical answer to the legacy left by New Labour.
In all seriousness, I'm very liberal (but that doesn't mean I don't FRIKKING LOVE guns), and I like presidents who put a strong emphasis on our space Program, because I want to work at NASA as an Engineer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/27 00:39:56
May the the blessings of His Grace the Emperor tumble down upon you like a golden fog. (Only a VERY select few will get this reference. And it's not from 40k. )
Luco wrote:Traditionally, I'm on the right.
Currently, I'm more confused than as to anything and I sort of meander through a series of contradictions that I'm trying to make sense of.
Welcome to the real world.
Well thank you, was wondering if anyone was going to welcome me to post-childhood life.
Let's see...
Against abortion
Against immigration
Against occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Against excessive gun control
Against jail-time for the mentally ill. Asylums can do the job.
Against jail-time for drug addicts, rehab is necessary. Three strike rule.
Against lowering taxes for the rich. If anything, raise them.
Against interfering with how other countries are run, provided they aren't going rogue and massacring their own citizens in the streets or attacking us. (See: Syria)
Against affirmative action or any benefit given on the basis of race or gender.;
Neutral on the gay issue
Neutral on Israel/Palestine issue
I believe every people has the right to their own homeland.
I'm not an economist and have no idea how to fix the economy
Not certain on Iran, though am absolutely in favor of massive retaliation should they hit anyone with a nuclear weapon.
In favor of the death penatly
In favor of national healthcare
In favor of a balanced budget in boom times, prefer to operate at a surplus
In favor of green energy. This needs to be pushed.
In favor of NASA. Seeing as it fuels science, push it, hard.
In favor of recognizing English as the national language
In favor of public showing of faith provided no laws are broken in the process. (Killing people for burning your book isn't acceptable, I don't care what your issue it)
In favor of shrinking defense funds when wartime ends and redirecting the funds to social issues
In favor of fair trade
In favor of public housing, rehab, and education for the homeless.
In favor of spending more money on education, at least give the kids better quality and healthier food for breakfast and lunch.
I'm pro-deregulation on almost all cases. I guess that makes me pretty far right. I do however prefer the label, communist, as I support pure communism, not the pseudo-communist dictatorships (people often get that confused ). I detest Stalin, Mao, Castro, etc. The only communist leaders (sounds like an oxymoron) I could say I respect at all would be Marx and Ho Chi Minh (maybe it was just Minh's charisma).
Waaagh! Gorskar = 2050pts
Iron Warriors VII Company = 1850pts
Fjälnir Ironfist's Great Company = 1800pts
Guflag's Mercenary Ogres = 2000pts
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
1,000 pts 27-8-10
15 pts 0-0-0
1,000 pts 3-1-0
>Raptors Lead the Way < 
W:0D:0L:1
(waiting for csm)
)
Hive Fleet Aquarius 2-1-0