Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

orz192 wrote:I don't think the jet pack special rule allows for heavy weapons to be fired after they move. I am pretty sure that is specifically mentioned in the rulebook. So for markerlights on stealth suits you would have to remain stationary, fire, then use your free assault move correct?

For both units it says that they follow the rules for jetpacks, which gives them relentless. The XV8s, however, have a line at the bottom where it says that they cannot move and fire heavy weapons (which is pointless as you can't equip XV8s with heavy weapons). This line is a leftover from the previous rules (just like all references to target priority tests) where Relentless was not a USR and jet packs just gave you the extra 6" move and move and fire with rapid fire weapons. The line is still pointless without any Heavy Weapon options for XV8s though.

That line isn't at the bottom of the Stealth Suits entry, so they just follow the rules for relentless so they can move and fire heavy weapons.

Previous page.

enfernux wrote:

Spoiler:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

orz192 wrote:I don't think the jet pack special rule allows for heavy weapons to be fired after they move. I am pretty sure that is specifically mentioned in the rulebook. So for markerlights on stealth suits you would have to remain stationary, fire, then use your free assault move correct?

For both units it says that they follow the rules for jetpacks, which gives them relentless. The XV8s, however, have a line at the bottom where it says that they cannot move and fire heavy weapons (which is pointless as you can't equip XV8s with heavy weapons). This line is a leftover from the previous rules (just like all references to target priority tests) where Relentless was not a USR and jet packs just gave you the extra 6" move and move and fire with rapid fire weapons. The line is still pointless without any Heavy Weapon options for XV8s though.

That line isn't at the bottom of the Stealth Suits entry, so they just follow the rules for relentless so they can move and fire heavy weapons.

Spoiler:

enfernux wrote:on the stealth-marker problem:
It is stated in the tau 'dex: Stealthsuits are subject to jetpack - relentless. XV8 are subject to jetpacks, but are fitted to decrease reciol, so may fire rapidfire weapons as though they didnt move, but cant shoot heavy weapons.
They get relentless, but their own 'dex strips it off for XV8. Not for XV15 and 25.

Previous page.

Yeah I saw that after I'd posted it. Looked through the Errata again in case I'd missed something. By that time all you guys had forged ahead with the discussion.

I'll say that with all the people saying that Crisis suits are the greatest thing ever in the Tau army book, I'm surprised I haven't seen more lists built around Farsight. A 7 man XV8 bodyguard is enough to make any opponent sweat if they deep strike on his flank.

i dont see what the point of this argument is... last I checked there was no heavy weapon options available to Crisis Suits...

@Town Called Malus, what would the point of that be though?Compare a 7 man unit to 2-3 3 man units

@chaos: drones gain the same unite type as their owners with all their stuff, and if that says, you cant fire heavy weapons, than the marker drone cant fire its marker light if attached to a crisis suit.
@Malus: you take farsight w his bodyguard, ill take a few xv8s and we'll se who wins. xv8s are good in msu, so a sqad of 8 is to juicy a target to ignore, are going to atract most of the fire, and vs platform IG, that is gona be tough loss.

chaos0xomega wrote:i dont see what the point of this argument is... last I checked there was no heavy weapon options available to Crisis Suits...

@Town Called Malus, what would the point of that be though?Compare a 7 man unit to 2-3 3 man units

But you can have that 7 man unit (8 man including Farsight himself) as well as your three Special choices. Plus you get free bonding knives throughout your army, which is nice.

You sacrifice in only being able to have one unit of XV88s, one hammerhead, one skyray, one unit of pathfinders, one unit of Piranhas, one unit of stealth suits and no kroot or vespid.

Equip his bodyguard with Plasma/Missile Pods with Targeting Arrays, Hard Wired multi trackers and target locks and you can put out a devastating amount of firepower against multiple vehicles or focus it onto your opponents hard hitting unit. There is not much which will survive being shot at by 8 rapid firing plasma rifles and 7 missile pods, followed by an assault to let them taste some Dawn Blade.

Against Orks you can wipe out a Warboss and his bodyguard in one turn.

enfernux wrote:
a not outflanking xv25 can move 13-18" a turn. that is a LOT, and can get behind the transports.

You will either be assaulted or the vehicle in question will pivot to deny rear armor. I've assaulted vehicles that didn't move last round with stealth suits and knocked them out, the key to using stealth suits is to be creative.

juraigamer wrote:

enfernux wrote:
a not outflanking xv25 can move 13-18" a turn. that is a LOT, and can get behind the transports.

You will either be assaulted or the vehicle in question will pivot to deny rear armor. I've assaulted vehicles that didn't move last round with stealth suits and knocked them out, the key to using stealth suits is to be creative.

But if it pivots to deny rear armour to your Stealth Suits, it is probably exposing it to something else in your army, which will have an equal strength gun at the very least.

Exactly. This is why stealth suits and piranhas work so well together.

Stealth suits infiltrate/outflank, piranhas go 24 inches up the sides of the boards. Place a few seeker missiles on the piranhas, and you will be popping vehicles all day long.

You can't make a tau list without synergy, unless you spam battlesuits and pray your dice work.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:i dont see what the point of this argument is... last I checked there was no heavy weapon options available to Crisis Suits...

@Town Called Malus, what would the point of that be though?Compare a 7 man unit to 2-3 3 man units

But you can have that 7 man unit (8 man including Farsight himself) as well as your three Special choices. Plus you get free bonding knives throughout your army, which is nice.

You sacrifice in only being able to have one unit of XV88s, one hammerhead, one skyray, one unit of pathfinders, one unit of Piranhas, one unit of stealth suits and no kroot or vespid.

Equip his bodyguard with Plasma/Missile Pods with Targeting Arrays, Hard Wired multi trackers and target locks and you can put out a devastating amount of firepower against multiple vehicles or focus it onto your opponents hard hitting unit. There is not much which will survive being shot at by 8 rapid firing plasma rifles and 7 missile pods, followed by an assault to let them taste some Dawn Blade.

Against Orks you can wipe out a Warboss and his bodyguard in one turn.

So 20 Crisis Suits... Well, thats all well and good, but who the hell has the points for that!? O.o

juraigamer wrote:A moblie tau is a less likely to be dead tau.

In theory, they can fire railguns at 9 different targets.

Then you could have piranha with fusion guns, as well as using two SMT's to launch seeker missiles against lighly armored vehicles After attempting what they could with burst cannons, if needed (and shouldn't until turn 3-4)

Notabot, your thinking of everything in one dimensional terms. Consider the fact of what str 5 against rear armor does. Outflanking stealth suits make this easily possible.

This is one of the reasons why tau get so little respect. The players.

Nobody actually takes 9 broadsides with split fire. The percentages of a single shot doing anything when facing units in cover or smoked is so low that you usually should shoot everything at one target.

Its good that you value piranha with fusion, but then you advocate seeker missiles. There is a seeker missile list, but that list goes all out for seekers to completely demech the enemy turn 1.

Outflanking S5 for anti tank utility is down right silly. The things that have to go right for this to work are pretty bad odds. 1/3 you don't end up where you want. You have to have an opponent that somehow has an unit with their rear armor facing the edge and close to said edge when they know that there are outflankers coming (also known as screwing up twice in one move). Then you have to roll to hit, roll to pen (needing 5s to glance) and hopefully not have cover or smoke to deal with. Then you have to get a worthwhile result on the chart. All that to kill a chimera or rhino. Totally going to give up turns of shooting from units that can threaten from turn one with better guns for that...

juraigamer wrote:Exactly. This is why stealth suits and piranhas work so well together.

Stealth suits infiltrate/outflank, piranhas go 24 inches up the sides of the boards. Place a few seeker missiles on the piranhas, and you will be popping vehicles all day long.

You can't make a tau list without synergy, unless you spam battlesuits and pray your dice work.

then why did you question what i wrote?? Doesnt make sense to me...
@Notabot: yes, outflanking w s5 weapons is a bad idea. Ork Commandos for ex outflanking killed a DE Raider w FF the turn they came in with SHOOTING. Now orks are even worse shooters than tau, so it can happen.
Defkoptaz outflanking is just insane.
Sentinel/A.Sentinels outflanking is a killer.
Vendettas the same.
Most can have better choice of weapons, true. But a marker on that Rhino from the rear, or better so, two markers and an incoming xv88 shooting twin linked bs5?? I'll go with that, and 30" usually covers half of the field by the turn they come in and the enemy is closer to you. But if you're'd like to take output an artilery from greater range, lets say behind trees: mark: removes the cover save and ow...bs4 twin link...nice.

enfernux wrote:

juraigamer wrote:Exactly. This is why stealth suits and piranhas work so well together.

Stealth suits infiltrate/outflank, piranhas go 24 inches up the sides of the boards. Place a few seeker missiles on the piranhas, and you will be popping vehicles all day long.

You can't make a tau list without synergy, unless you spam battlesuits and pray your dice work.

then why did you question what i wrote?? Doesnt make sense to me...
@Notabot: yes, outflanking w s5 weapons is a bad idea. Ork Commandos for ex outflanking killed a DE Raider w FF the turn they came in with SHOOTING. Now orks are even worse shooters than tau, so it can happen.
Defkoptaz outflanking is just insane.
Sentinel/A.Sentinels outflanking is a killer.
Vendettas the same.
Most can have better choice of weapons, true. But a marker on that
Rhino from the rear, or better so, two markers and an incoming xv88 shooting twin linked bs5?? I'll go with that, and 30" usually covers half of the field by the turn they come in and the enemy is closer to you. But if you're'd like to take output an artilery from greater range, lets say behind trees: mark: removes the cover save and ow...bs4 twin link...nice.

You gave a bunch of examples of units that have better than S5 shooting...
Deffkoptas S8 twin linked and potentially S7 PK
Sentinels, S6 S7 or S8. Also didn't know that armored sentinels could outflank. In fact was pretty sure they couldn't
Vendettas S9 with 3 twin linked shots.
Your Kommando example got lucky and fired at the weakest and easiest to kill transport in the game short of ork truks. Good job, now do it again.

So now you are using outflanking to put marker lights on something? Wut... Instead of taking a unit that can kill from turn 1 you are now going to outflank so you can at some point team up with one of your few rail guns to kill a rhino. Facing doesn't matter for placing maker lights, why so concerned about putting marker lights on from the rear? Brain hurts so much... Also, who takes artillery? The random guy with a thunderfire cannon who doesn't know they suck yet? Or were you talking about taking out basilisks or something?

notabot187 wrote:

juraigamer wrote:

In theory, they can fire railguns at 9 different targets.

Nobody actually takes 9 broadsides with split fire.

I bolded the part you didn't understand.

notabot187 wrote:
Outflanking S5 for anti tank utility is down right silly.

Against an armored imperial guard, you would need to outflank your stealth suits. Against ork hordes, you wouldn't. You must think tactically, you can't post like a grey knight player who only thinks of the charge.

And don't insult thunderfire cannons, they are amazing when used properly. It's a shame that most players have the tactical prowess of a 10 year old...

I understood your premise of the 9 targets, its also a pointless and stupid argument since its a poor set up and nobody does it.

Grey knights only charging? What kind of scrubs play around were you play? Grey Knights are a shooting army with decent assault to finish off enemies who wish to close, or can advance with firing for effect, and finish with a charge against enemies who wish to stand off.

Against armored IG, you shouldn't be playing with crappy units like stealth suits because you are already starting out screwed.

Against Ork hordes outflanking stealth suits are actually good for taking out lootas in the corner.

So you advocate taking crap units and throwing them away on bad missions when you need all the quality you can get, and argue against taking a reasonable tactic against one of the few times where it could pay off...

I'll insult Tcannons all day long. They are crap. They were screwed the minute the 5th core book came out with the artillery rules. Further screwed by being only good against hordes in a mech edition. Of all the top armies out there, how many use massed infantry? Don't say orks, they are not a top army, and haven't been for awhile now. Foot guard is the bad way to run them. Some people have success with them, but I question the quality of their opponents. Hell, my bad list for DE erase full 50 man blobs a turn. Fragile weapon systems with only 1 type of target they are good at killing, with that target being the weakest options possible in this rules edition...

Stealth Suits are pretty good, and usually get their points back most of the time, but are out-classed by crisis suit on every level.

The don't have any access range anti vehicle (missile pod) or anti meq (plasma).

They also have lower S and T and less wounds. And less A I think.

Think of it this way. An average crisis suit costs about 50 points. That means you pay twenty points more than a Stealth Suit to double to wounds, add T S A and strut about with weapons that are devastator-level power...firing two a turn.

Stealth suits I mostly use for Apoc where the FOC goes out the window. or for planet strike as an attacker where I have 6 elite slots.

I agree that crisis suits are better than stealth suits, but I would ask what is the crisis suit doing that can be done elsewhere in the army? A few seeker missiles can do a better job than missile pods, as can more railguns, but there is the plasma problem. You can try to get around it with fusion blasters on piranha and tossing railgun shots, but that's really the only weakness for not having battlesuits.

But I ask this, stealth suits have their stealth field rules which is better are keeping the suits alive at long range. I dislike having missiles and lascannons shot at my battlesuits, that die in one hit. There are only three weapons that can be taken on normal battesuits that the army cannot take otherwise. Flamers, something you don't need. Missile pods, anti-light tank weapons, and plasma rifles (which you can get on broadsides, but it's not worth it)

I understood your premise of the 9 targets, its also a pointless and stupid argument since its a poor set up and nobody does it.

No one runs 9 broadsides? Check again.

Grey knights only charging?

Figure of speech, I was stating you weren't thinking enough before you posted

Against armored IG, you shouldn't be playing with crappy units like stealth suits because you are already starting out screwed.

I make all comers lists, to handle anything I'm thrown against. As should you. You don't get to pick who and what you play against in a tournament.

So you advocate taking crap units

I only advocate making the most use of units that are under used. My stealth teams are feared by the guys at my FLGS, only because I use them well.

I'll insult Tcannons all day long. They are crap. They were screwed the minute the 5th core book came out with the artillery rules. Further screwed by being only good against hordes in a mech edition.

Such a low points cost, basically 25 points for a cannon that can do so much? If anyones wasting long range anti-tank weapons against my thunderfire cannons, then they aren't shooting at something else of mine. People use scatterlasers and mutlilasers against light vehicles, thunderfire cannons are basically that, but with a blast instead of a single shot. Their cover ignoring shells help out from time to time, and their tremor rounds have won me many many games. How good is it to force a unit to count as being in terrain, and/or to force terrain tests on vehicles? Very good. Getting charged by something without grenades and forcing it to go at initiative 1 is amazing. I've killed countless dreadknights, dreadnoughts and many many other things by just tossing a single terrain shot on it. I suggest you re-evaulate your conditions for considering something "Bad" because if the only thing your going by is what the net lists spam, your being lead in the wrong direction.

I would take 9 broadsides w/ split fire... its actually the cheapest build for them you can run (the target lock is cheap). Sure it might not be optimal against some builds, but against say DE raiders, thats going to put your opponent into a world of hurt.... You still have the option of combining fire against tougher nuts.

More commonly however, is 9 broadsides at 6 targets, taking other support systems (drone controller?) on 2 out of the three, and then a targetting array w/ hardwired target lock and (maybe) drone controller on the lead.

notabot187 wrote:
You gave a bunch of examples of units that have better than S5 shooting...

and again you miss my point.

notabot187 wrote:
Deffkoptas S8 twin linked and potentially S7 PK
Sentinels, S6 S7 or S8. Also didn't know that armored sentinels could outflank. In fact was pretty sure they couldn't
Vendettas S9 with 3 twin linked shots.

AS i said, the usually have better S weapons, but i guess you missed that to. Throw my own admittance back at me with no edge to the blade...c'mon.

notabot187 wrote:
Your Kommando example got lucky and fired at the weakest and easiest to kill transport in the game short of ork truks. Good job, now do it again.

and luck cant happen that often, right? w s5 to the rear armor...ow, you dont outflank and dont have a chance to get rear...im sorry.

notabot187 wrote:
So now you are using outflanking to put marker lights on something? Wut... Instead of taking a unit that can kill from turn 1 you are now going to outflank so you can at some point team up with one of your few rail guns to kill a rhino.

and what can kill turn 1 usually is dead by turn 2. Yes, if i know i can't hide those xv25s on the field, then im going to outflank them, maybe helping to wreck something and get behind it after to get cover???

notabot187 wrote:Facing doesn't matter for placing maker lights, why so concerned about putting marker lights on from the rear? Brain hurts so much... Also, who takes artillery? The random guy with a thunderfire cannon who doesn't know they suck yet? Or were you talking about taking out basilisks or something?

Right on the marker. But do you have to ramble like a loon about it? Just cause you have an ego and think you are better, maybe in a lot of things yess, but that doesnt mean you can ramble about it. Like you never miss used words before, right?
Feal my apathy.

Against mech'guard i'd take 9 broadsides w splitfire anyday.

And again: this topic is about xv25s usefullness or unusefullness, not how cool xv8s are. They are but snap it sheesh.

Further, just cause you dont like/use xv25, doesnt mean they suck. Just in your configuration, they dont work. Well, sue me but a mobile marker platform with survivability for just a bit more than a squad of pathfinders that die after they marked, or even before...i take.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
on who takes artilery: mostly IG, behind a wall - and it can happen.

enfernux wrote:
Right on the marker. But do you have to ramble like a loon about it?

Same could be said of yourself.

Does "snap it Sheesh" mean shut up? It was a bit unclear.

Stealth teams are not very useful. In fact I go further and say they mostly suck.

I've given many reason why they suck, many reason why the tactics they are used in are suboptimal.

Talking about stealth teams without talking about crisis suits is kinda weird in my mind, especially considering their is competition for the slots they take up. I've not seen a unfilled elite slot for tau in a long time. When you take stealth teams, you are giving up a crisis team. By doing this you are giving up anti transport ability.

People then go on how awesome rail guns are, and that you can use those to make up for the loss of a crisis team... This is bad since you are paying extra for the privilege of lowering your chances to kill a particular target for the privilege of trying to kill multiple targets. The reason to take 2-3 suits in a squad is the insure the killing of your target. Splitting fire is sometimes called for, but its something to be avoided if possible. The reasons being is railguns are meant to be fired at high priority targets, LRs, stormravens, autolas preds, dreads. Things you pretty much have to kill ASAP. The little units like razors and rhinos and chimeras should be targeted by S6-8 (tau don't get much access to S8, but the point stands) shooting. Diverting broadside support to transport suppression because you wanted stealth teams weakens your list.

Stealth teams have reasonably survivable mobile marker lights, this is true. But you cut out units that would use the marker lights for taking marker lights. I don't really understand this at all. Marker lights aren't all that great anyways. You pay tons of points for a unit that is not even trying to directly kill something so you can fire something else with better effect at that same target. Its not a terrible ability, but you certainly shouldn't be taking them at the expense of firepower units. Which is why pathfinders are the best marker light source. Sure they die easy, and they aren't mobile... but they can get a good view of the board if you deploy well, and any fire coming at them means your shooting teams are not getting shot at.

Then people try to say the burst cannon fire from them is actually pretty good, and can kill things they shouldn't be shooting at in the first place. Yeah, S5 can kill AV 10, especially in volume. But by doing so you are needing to deploy in a manner that takes firepower away from your army (lost turns of shooting while in reserve). You are also potentially throwing the unit away (poor flank roll) or embarking on a suicide run. Nothing wrong about suicide runs, if the risk is worth it. But most often it is not (I've seen far too many rhino killing suicide squads). Tau have good range with most of their units, they shouldn't need to do things like outflank burst cannons to take out fire support units turtled in the corner. If the fusion gun had better range and the stealth teams better movement (though the JSJ tactic is nice, they give up offensive movement for defensive movement) I would like that configuration a bit better, but their not, so I don't like it much.

While I disagree with imrandomhgh about stealth teams being "pretty good" (I think they are almost good, but that in my book means they almost don't suck) I do agree with his statement about them being outclassed by crisis suits. I also agree if it weren't for Tau's FOC I would probably think better of them, and might even advocate their use (if they were FA I would say a squad is a solid thing to take, but they aren't so I don't). Hell, I don't find myself agreeing with him very often but he is pretty spot on about them.

So basically, if stealth suits were fast attack, it would be all flowers and sunshine, in your opinion?

juraigamer wrote:So basically, if stealth suits were fast attack, it would be all flowers and sunshine, in your opinion?

Yeah, they wouldn't be great, but I would take them and would recommend them. They compete against must less important units. For instance 2 squadrons of piranha is plenty. Of course pathfinders would be harder to justify, but maybe they should be troops?

the snap it stand for i know xv8s are the gods of the Tau dex, but this topic aint about that.
on the thought i once made an xv25 w Shadowsun, and it rocked me pals Farsight list. Basically even xv8 cant outlast a volume of 3*9+6*2*3 TL s5 shots, even on ap5. Yep, xv25, all w gundrones, stealth field, and my choice of named HQ. Ok, vs a LR this would to jack sith, but sadly Tau dont have that type of killyness w vehicles, nor that survivability. Tha "TARGET IS HERE" neon ad is still above our railheads.

enfernux wrote:the snap it stand for i know xv8s are the gods of the Tau dex, but this topic aint about that.
on the thought i once made an xv25 w Shadowsun, and it rocked me pals Farsight list. Basically even xv8 cant outlast a volume of 3*9+6*2*3 TL s5 shots, even on ap5. Yep, xv25, all w gundrones, stealth field, and my choice of named HQ. Ok, vs a LR this would to jack sith, but sadly Tau dont have that type of killyness w vehicles, nor that survivability. Tha "TARGET IS HERE" neon ad is still above our railheads.

Shadowsun? Fluffy and all, but not a very good special character. And why would your friend hurt themselves so much by taking a Farsight list? Eh, I guess it doesn't matter as long as everybody is having fun. Its just hard to take seriously any of the tau special characters.

With going against railheads as a marine player I've learned to just laugh at them. I don't even shoot them unless I don't have devilfish or piranha to shoot at. A single shot railgun against my raider isn't all that important compared to dealing with units that are trying to win the game (objectives) or have a higher kill percentage against me (piranha melta attacks). Railheads kill 1 target a round, if they are lucky. Their real danger IMHO is the sub-munition.

Not to hijack the thread, but if you were to go to Youtube and look up Miniwargaming you will see a batrep between a large stealth suit tau army (like 24 FW, 1 HH, and 1 Battlesuit and a lot of stealth suits) facing off against some blood angels, they did pretty good! But they still lost...anyway this might help or hurt the argument, I would post the link but I am at school and blocked...

Shadowsun? Fluffy and all, but not a very good special character. And why would your friend hurt themselves so much by taking a Farsight list? Eh, I guess it doesn't matter as long as everybody is having fun. Its just hard to take seriously any of the tau special characters.

With going against railheads as a marine player I've learned to just laugh at them. I don't even shoot them unless I don't have devilfish or piranha to shoot at. A single shot railgun against my raider isn't all that important compared to dealing with units that are trying to win the game (objectives) or have a higher kill percentage against me (piranha melta attacks). Railheads kill 1 target a round, if they are lucky. Their real danger IMHO is the sub-munition.

Well the sub munition is the only reason anyone takes railhead anyways. If it didn't have that then it would be far, far outclassed by ionheads, melta-cannon heads, skyrays and broadsides.

And Farsight vs. Shadowsun isn't even a contest. If Farsight didn't have his stupid rule which limits your broadsides and hammerheads and all that good stuff, he would actually be a fairly strong choice for a character. As it is, he is still better than Shadowsun. His plasma rifle can kill her in one shot.

0.66 chance to hit, 0.83 chance to wound, 0.5 chance to pen invul. x2=0.55 Better than fifty percent chance to kill Shadowsun with shooting alone. Plus, he would break her in CC.

Just saying, Shadowsun could one shot farsight easier than farsight could one shot Shadowsun.

She has better BS, three extra wounds(yay drones), Stealthfield, Shield gen, and two fusion Blasters.

In CC, he would win. But she could prolly take him out in shooting playing the Wound Allocation game.



When I did use Stealth Suits( when I first started tau around the start of 5th) My dice hated me and the only time my StealthSuits would kill anything was in CC. But they would always win CC if there was even the slightest chance of it happening.


Now I run 3 Bladestorms(PR/BC), 3 Fireknives(PR/MP), and 3 Deathrains(TL MP/BSF) with a Centurion Commander (Shas'el w CiB/PR/TA). The Bladestorms focus on infantry, Deathrains on Transports and MCs, and Fireknives to support whichever squad needs more... well support. This has worked well for me both on vassal and IRL.

The Reason I dropped the Stealth Suits was because they were pretty much really expensive kroot at the end of the day (YMMV). So I dropped them for the Bladestorms and more kroot, since kroot really do the Stealth Suit's( speedbump, not markerlights) job for about a 1/3 of the points. Even less if you gave all the Steathsuits TA like I did.

Iur_tae_mont wrote:Just saying, Shadowsun could one shot farsight easier than farsight could one shot Shadowsun.

She has better BS, three extra wounds(yay drones), Stealthfield, Shield gen, and two fusion Blasters.

In CC, he would win. But she could prolly take him out in shooting playing the Wound Allocation game.

But Farsight could outrange her. 12" fusion blasters vs 24" Plasma Rifle. They're both equally mobile so theoretically there's no way Shadowsun could get in range. She has Stealth but as the average vision range for night fighting is 21" Farsight could still easily just keep out of range of her guns whilst still blasting her. Her drones will die eventually.

@Malus: yes, if you are so dumb to go on a plain line against farsight.
farsight 24" 4/6(hit)*5/6(wound)*3/6(invul)=.27 to kill shadowsun w.out drones.
12" double the chance, so .54 is good. But thank god for wound alocation. Shadowsun cant kill farsight from 24", but has the same chance from 12".

on my math, before someone sais AGAIN its wrong: im calculateing with the how many chances on a d6 you have to roll to do it, so i dont think it is wrong.

enfernux wrote:@Malus: yes, if you are so dumb to go on a plain line against farsight.
farsight 24" 4/6(hit)*5/6(wound)*3/6(invul)=.27 to kill shadowsun w.out drones.
12" double the chance, so .54 is good. But thank god for wound alocation. Shadowsun cant kill farsight from 24", but has the same chance from 12".

on my math, before someone sais AGAIN its wrong: im calculateing with the how many chances on a d6 you have to roll to do it, so i dont think it is wrong.

Well with true line of sight it's going to be difficult to not be in a position where he can see you. If he stands in the middle of the most open bit of the board then you're going to have to go into the open to get at him and then he'll start to move-fire-move to keep Shadowsun at range.