Mindstrike Missiles Vs Grey Knight Vehicles

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DK

Pg 50 brb, under force weapons it says "used by trained psykers " that means the dreadnought is a psyker, so is the rinho

**rigeld2**

DK wrote:Pg 50 brb, under force weapons it says "used by trained psykers " that means the dreadnought is a psyker, so is the rinho

a) that has nothing to do with your assertion that everyone using a power is a psyker
b) that sentence is fluff and has nothing to do with actual rules.

DK

rigeld2 wrote:
DK wrote:Pg 50 brb, under force weapons it says "used by trained psykers " that means the dreadnought is a psyker, so is the rinho

a) that has nothing to do with your assertion that everyone using a power is a psyker
b) that sentence is fluff and has nothing to do with actual rules.

wow, can you get my quote right? do you read the txt form of english? I said all that use psychic powers are psychic stop twisting words...maybe thats why you dont understand the rules right, you twist words around.

**rigeld2**

DK wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
DK wrote:Pg 50 brb, under force weapons it says "used by trained psykers " that means the dreadnought is a psyker, so is the rinho

a) that has nothing to do with your assertion that everyone using a power is a psyker
b) that sentence is fluff and has nothing to do with actual rules.

wow, can you get my quote right? do you read the txt form of english? I said all that use psychic powers are psychic stop twisting words...maybe thats why you dont understand the rules right, you twist words around.

DK wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
DevianID wrote:And also, with nos's reading you are not a psyker for determining if you can use a power. Only for tests, which dont matter because before you test for a psychic power you must first be a psyker to use the power. Kind of like the force weapon issue.

False. Psykers use powers, but not everything that uses powers must be a Psyker.

wrong, psykers use psychic powers, everything that uses psychic powers are psykers.

No, you didn't say that.

You said, as I quoted, that everything that uses psychic powers are psykers. That statement is incorrect.

I expect an apology.

DK

I expect you to quote ur self right, you left out "psychic" when you said powers...u mis qouted me because I said all psychic powers are used by psykers so if you can tell me, anywhere other then the argued psyker pilot rule, where is there a unit that uses a "psychic" power but is not a psyker.

**IcyCool**

DK wrote:I expect you to quote ur self right, you left out "psychic" when you said powers...u mis qouted me because I said all psychic powers are used by psykers so if you can tell me, anywhere other then the argued psyker pilot rule, where is there a unit that uses a "psychic" power but is not a psyker.

I'm away from my book at the moment, but is a Tyranid Warrior a Psyker? I don't think they have the Psyker special rule, and yet they continually use a psychic power.

I believe the Tervigon, Tyrant, Swarmlord, and Zoanthrope are all Psykers, but I'm not sure the Warrior is (the Trygon Prime might not be either).

**rigeld2**

IcyCool wrote:
DK wrote:I expect you to quote ur self right, you left out "psychic" when you said powers...u mis qouted me because I said all psychic powers are used by psykers so if you can tell me, anywhere other then the argued psyker pilot rule, where is there a unit that uses a "psychic" power but is not a psyker.

I'm away from my book at the moment, but is a Tyranid Warrior a Psyker? I don't think they have the Psyker special rule, and yet they continually use a psychic power.

I believe the Tervigon, Tyrant, Swarmlord, and Zoanthrope are all Psykers, but I'm not sure the Warrior is (the Trygon Prime might not be either).

Warriors and Trygon Primes aren't Psykers, but they also don't use any psychic powers.

Eldar Warlock powers are psychic powers that do not require a psychic test, and Warlocks are not psykers.

**Happyjew**

rigeld2 wrote:Eldar Warlock powers are psychic powers that do not require a psychic test, and Warlocks are not Psykers.

Fixed that for you.

**IcyCool**

rigeld2 wrote:Warriors and Trygon Primes aren't Psykers, but they also don't use any psychic powers.

Eldar Warlock powers are psychic powers that do not require a psychic test, and Warlocks are not psykers.

Ah, so they made Synapse a general rule then and not an always on Psychic power? I haven't had a chance to play a game in quite a while, so haven't really digested the newest 'nid book.

**rigeld2**

Happyjew wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:Eldar Warlock powers are psychic powers that do not require a psychic test, and Warlocks are not Psykers.

Fixed that for you.

Thanks.

IcyCool wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:Warriors and Trygon Primes aren't Psykers, but they also don't use any psychic powers.

Eldar Warlock powers are psychic powers that do not require a psychic test, and Warlocks are not psykers.

Ah, so they made Synapse a general rule then and not an always on Psychic power? I haven't had a chance to play a game in quite a while, so haven't really digested the newest 'nid book.

Correct - it's just a thing that happens when a Psyker uses an ability within Synapse/Shadow in the Warp range.

**Happyjew**

Yes SitW and Synapse are special rules, Broodlords, Hive Tyrants, Tervigons, and Zoanthropes (and named variants) are the only Psykers in the Tyranid army.

**DeathReaper**

rogueeyes wrote:
DeathReaper wrote: all unactivated force weapons do is ignore armor

If you read the force weapons rule in the rulebook you are required to be a psyker in order to get this extra power. If you are not a psyker for the purpose of a force weapon then you do not have this power thus can never activate a force weapon.

Plus you have the entire point of a DCCW wrong. A DCCW ignores armor saves - it does not cause instant death. It does if the S is double the T of the target but not on T6 and higher models. My argument even stated that you would be able to cast the psychic power to activate the force weapon f you were considered to be psyker for the purpose of the force weapon which confers upon you the psychc power to activate a force weapon.

My argument again:
You must be a psyker in order to be granted a psychic power from a force weapon.
Psychic pilot does not grant you the ability to be a psyker for the purposes of a force weapon.
Thus you do not have the psychic power to cast to activate the force weapon.
Thus you can never use your force weapon.

My argument against being able to use force weapons syncs up with the psychic pilot rule and forces dreadnoughts not to use force weapons because they are not considered psykers for the purpose of force weapons precluding them from having the psychic power to cast.

Maybe you misread the underlined, I said Unactivated, so if you do not use the instagib ability the force weapon only ignores armor saves.

For the orange, Please preovide a page with the actual rules that say this (Not fluff, but rules).

For the dark red,The Psychic Pilot rule allows the dread to be a psyker for the purposes of Psychic tests and psychic hoods. Activating a force weapon is a Psychic Test. so it is considered a Psyker for this purpose.

Thus your conclusions are incorrect.

**Happyjew**

My GOD, DR and nos are agreeing. The end is nigh...

DK

Warlocks are psykers, eldar codex pg 27 quote, "warlocks are psykers"

im looking up the nid codex, but so far no one has a solid answer to my question.

**rigeld2**

DK wrote:Warlocks are psykers, eldar codex pg 27 quote, "warlocks are psykers"

im looking up the nid codex, but so far no one has a solid answer to my question.

Warlocks are not Psykers - as in they do not have the Psyker special rule.

DK

rigeld2 wrote:
DK wrote:Warlocks are psykers, eldar codex pg 27 quote, "warlocks are psykers"

im looking up the nid codex, but so far no one has a solid answer to my question.

Warlocks are not Psykers - as in they do not have the Psyker special rule.

how bout you read the warlock power special rule on pg 27 for the class then, since you know so much

**rigeld2**

DK wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
DK wrote:Warlocks are psykers, eldar codex pg 27 quote, "warlocks are psykers"

im looking up the nid codex, but so far no one has a solid answer to my question.

Warlocks are not Psykers - as in they do not have the Psyker special rule.

how bout you read the warlock power special rule on pg 27 for the class then, since you know so much

Um - I did.

See the line right above that that says "Special Rules" and only lists "Fleet of Foot"?

The Warlock Powers section says that warlocks are psykers - not Psykers. There's a difference - Psyker is a special rule.
Warlocks would be affected by Mindstrike Missiles as it references psykers, not Psykers.

DK

You my friend are why codexs have to be writen at a 3rd grade level. Does anyone else back up his point of the Cap "P" makes a diffrence?

Everyone knows most codexs don't list the rule then explain it later, like the GK brotherhood champ "Titan's Herald", it is not listed in the special rules list of common rules, its explained under the SR list, so there for its a SR.

So for the Warlock, warlock powers is a special rule that says he is a psyker. So there for he is a psyker, because his codex entry says that he is a psyker, with psychic powers that he must take, which means he uses psychic powers which makes him a psyker.

**DeathReaper**

DK wrote:You my friend are why codexs have to be writen at a 3rd grade level. Does anyone else back up his point of the Cap "P" makes a diffrence?

Everyone knows most codexs don't list the rule then explain it later, like the GK brotherhood champ "Titan's Herald", it is not listed in the special rules list of common rules, its explained under the SR list, so there for its a SR.

So for the Warlock, warlock powers is a special rule that says he is a psyker. So there for he is a psyker, because his codex entry says that he is a psyker, with psychic powers that he must take, which means he uses psychic powers which makes him a psyker.

#1 Please be polite, it is the #1 forum rule.

#2 If you look at the BRB they capitalize things to differentiate them all the time.

The characteristics are capitalized so when they talk about wounds they are not talking about the Wound characteristic. The same goes for attack and Attacks etc.

So yes, it does make a difference.

**rigeld2**

DK wrote:You my friend are why codexs have to be writen at a 3rd grade level. Does anyone else back up his point of the Cap "P" makes a diffrence?

Everyone knows most codexs don't list the rule then explain it later, like the GK brotherhood champ "Titan's Herald", it is not listed in the special rules list of common rules, its explained under the SR list, so there for its a SR.

So for the Warlock, warlock powers is a special rule that says he is a psyker. So there for he is a psyker, because his codex entry says that he is a psyker, with psychic powers that he must take, which means he uses psychic powers which makes him a psyker.

Thanks for the insults. I appreciate them.

The special rule you're looking for is "Warlock Powers" not "Psyker". That's what the special rule is called. He is not a Psyker (the special rule).
Using psychic powers does not make him a Psyker - that would require the Psyker special rule which he does not have.
He's a psyker that uses some psychic powers without requiring a Psychic test.

Regardless - DeathReaper replied to your original Dreadnaught conundrum and you should probably reply to him instead of insulting me.

DK

To add to that, getting back to the original topic, there is no other codex, that contains units that have psychic powers that are not psychic.

As for the Dread, same thing, he is psychic, and can use the force weapon on his DCCW, i have seen it used in a GT without question vs a DreadKnight. The fight to make Rhinos and razorbacks not suffer potw from a mind-strike missile is manipulation of the wording. I'm a GK player and i have taken a MSM and agreed it takes a glancing hit.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DeathReaper wrote:
DK wrote:You my friend are why codexs have to be writen at a 3rd grade level. Does anyone else back up his point of the Cap "P" makes a diffrence?

Everyone knows most codexs don't list the rule then explain it later, like the GK brotherhood champ "Titan's Herald", it is not listed in the special rules list of common rules, its explained under the SR list, so there for its a SR.

So for the Warlock, warlock powers is a special rule that says he is a psyker. So there for he is a psyker, because his codex entry says that he is a psyker, with psychic powers that he must take, which means he uses psychic powers which makes him a psyker.

#1 Please be polite, it is the #1 forum rule.

#2 If you look at the BRB they capitalize things to differentiate them all the time.

The characteristics are capitalized so when they talk about wounds they are not talking about the Wound characteristic. The same goes for attack and Attacks etc.

So yes, it does make a difference.

where in the rule book does it say that the caps makes a difference with psykers and Psykers?

**rigeld2**

DK wrote: i have seen it used in a GT without question vs a DreadKnight.

Because judges (and players) at GTs never get rules wrong - that'd be impossible.

DK

rigeld2 wrote:
DK wrote: i have seen it used in a GT without question vs a DreadKnight.

Because judges (and players) at GTs never get rules wrong - that'd be impossible.

where in the rule book does it say that the caps makes a difference with psykers and Psykers?
answer this question? because i see no rule that says this is the case, therefor its the fluff you got this from not a rule.

In all your arguing that he is not a Psyker, but he would suffer POTW if hit by a mindstrike missle so this argument is pointless.

A warlock is a "p"syker that uses psychic powers, he just doesn't have to test for them. Again looking for another army that has Psychic powers that are not used by (P)sykers or (p)sykers.

To the point, yes people at GT get stuff wrong, but your making a big bet that they are wrong and if the ruling isn't in your favor your rhino is taking a glancing hit. However if your fighting GK vs GK or just missed the enemy that bad on scater and hit your own tank, you might as well just lie to your opponent and just say "o S4 isn't enough to do anything so it misses"

**DeathReaper**

It is a convention that they use, and you notice throughout the entire book.

Look at the Feel no Pain USR on Page 75: "... take the wound as normal (removing the model if it loses its final Wound)."

they differentiate between taking a wound

and a model losing its final Wound.

That is the difference.

DK

In grammar a proper noun are Caps, like the stat line are the the characteristic of the column. The adjective of describing a models as a psyker is not cap in english.

**DeathReaper**

But the Psyker special rule is in caps. Hence the difference between psyker and Psyker

DK

And that's the difference from being a Psyker (Object) and having psychic (adjecive) abilities. Either way, he is a psyker that casts psychic abilities.

**rigeld2**

DK wrote:And that's the difference from being a Psyker (Object) and having psychic (adjecive) abilities. Either way, he is a psyker that casts psychic abilities.

But something that affected Psykers would not affect him - because he doesn't have that Special Rule.

**NecronLord3**

Okay Grey Knight Vehicles have Psychic Pilots. Are people actually trying to argue that these are not psychers? And that Eldar now have no Psychers also? So is a Inquisitoral Psycher Henchman now also not a psycher? He doesn't have the special rule either.

**Sir_Prometheus**

They act like psykers, but are not in fact psykers. Nor do they have Ld values, despite having ld 10 for the purpose of using psychic powers.

This is weird, but still QUITE clear from the rule in question.

Why are their 3 pages of debate on this?