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**Adrian Fue Fue**

I remember being the guy that was cheated out of 4 games, with different guys mind you. I told them I was new and wanted some practice, I used set models without customizing them to a game plan, and my opponents build an army around killing my list. All 4 games my army was whipped out without killing a full unit of the enemies. Truth is, there are two players: One’s out for fun, hobbies, and good times. And others who are in it to be the bully, to say "I am better then you," “I know more then you,” or just want to pick on you as they were before.

I try to stick up for people being bullied, always have. In this case it is too obvious you are getting pummeled. Since he played Space Marines he should know how to play them, so see if he could use them to beat his “Tuned” lists. OR, just use coffee cups as drop pods and Lego men as Marines. If he can change things up then why can’t you.

**salamander117**

cassius wrote:It would help with knowing what list he runs, if he is running CSM list 2x princes with lash, 9 oblits, and plaugemarines, you're gonna have a hard time no matter what you field.

i think that his list is scattered throught the fist page but he uses Kharne, a sorceror with lash, chosen, 2-3 tacs, a predator, and 3 rhinos

no obliterators

**Randall Turner**

C'mon guys, if his opponent is helping him build his army, helping him learn tactics while he's playing, he might not deserve all the character assassination. Edit: and on the other hand of course he might, we don't know. And he's playing Necron next, let's help him with that.

Salamander, you've already probably figured out that Necrons have a 24" sweet spot, and they can keep you from alpha-striking with solar pulses. He's not running wraiths, so he's probably as weak as you or moreso in CC, barring specialist units like scarabs & CCB's. Does he play Canoptic Spyders, ie, scarab farm, ie, are you under time constraints forcing you to close like, now?

The (or one of the) most effective Space Marine tactics against Necrons is concentration of force by firepower, using a searchlight spotter. If you had enough transports a good tactic is to self-cover with the lead transport popping smoke while the next piggybacks over it and lights up the most forward Necron unit. (Often scarabs.) Rinse, repeat for two turns until pulses are done - but realize that the searchlighting spotters are toast. That's why they're cheap.

Theory is to cause more damage from firepower coming from your main force than he'll inflict on your spotter units. You'll concentrate fire and kill one good unit, he'll kill the transport. Try to snap up a forward unit (CCB/scarab) and stay as far away as possible from his bulk if you do this. Don't worry so much about the transport dying, their carcass will provide cover for your foot dudes and give them a nice fire position for their midrange stuff. And scarabs don't like foot dudes. (You're probably already doing this.)

It's not a bad idea to target the Annihilation Barges with your fire concentration, you're infantry heavy.

It sounds like you're then already closing with his troop blobs, right? SM aren't strong in CC, but naked Necrons (sans wraiths) are probably weaker. If your effective fire range is 12"-24" you're probably doing well to close. It sounds like you're coming close to winning doing so, perhaps it's not worth retooling for long range engagement. If you're going to close it's still all about self-covering during the approach. Caveat: I don't grok SM deep strike capability or GoI stuffs. I just know Necrons well.

The painful bit is going to be that approach when you get within midrange fire. I don't know whether you can re-kit your guys to turn them into a dedicated mid+long range army, the Necrons have virtually nothing aside from a few crypteks that can reach out past 24", and their infantry isn't great until 12". (looking back through the thread...) Does he run a double-CCB setup, Salamander? Two overlords in a couple of command barges? Also, again, is he scarab farming (scarab+spyder team) or just using scarabs alone? Trying to get an idea of how CC oriented he is.

Edit: SM guys, I know what I'm scared of as Necrons, shaky on what his list does well though.

**Pyriel-**

7. If you want to go with sternguard, think about talking Dorn. He makes them scoring and then you take 3 of them.

You mean Lysander and no, he doesnt make them scoring, the Crimson Fist HQ makes them scoring and also, what Lysander does is makes the squad he is with reroll all missed bolter shots.
Expensive but pretty useful in a full boltgun sternguard squad since those overheats can be rerolled and he forms a good anti assault discouragement but again, there is a problem with mobility.

i say 2-3 because somtimes hr runs an empty rhino to have me shoot a decoy and waste a turn

What?
He can run an empty rhino at you but the only thing it can do is try to block LOS to other things so if you ddeployed well dont bother about the empty rhino.

What he cannot do is to run a rhino at you and AFTER you waste shots to stop it tell you it was empty, that is illegal. You are allowed to know at all times exactly what sits in what vehicle.

The khorne and lash army you describe him to use is really not that great and pretty easy to defeat without any fancy units.

**salamander117**

Randall Turner - thanks i actually haven't tried the searchlight tactic and he does not farm just a set number around 12 or 20
with 2 barges and a lord with like 3 or 4 crypteks because of royal court

Pyriel- first nice name i just finished reading TOF triligy
second he tells me whats in them total but not whats in each one
l

**Farseer Mael Dannan**

Pyriel- wrote:
7. If you want to go with sternguard, think about talking Dorn. He makes them scoring and then you take 3 of them.

You mean Lysander and no, he doesnt make them scoring, the Crimson Fist HQ makes them scoring and also, what Lysander does is makes the squad he is with reroll all missed bolter shots.
Expensive but pretty useful in a full boltgun sternguard squad since those overheats can be rerolled and he forms a good anti assault discouragement but again, there is a problem with mobility.

i say 2-3 because somtimes hr runs an empty rhino to have me shoot a decoy and waste a turn

What?
He can run an empty rhino at you but the only thing it can do is try to block LOS to other things so if you ddeployed well dont bother about the empty rhino.

What he cannot do is to run a rhino at you and AFTER you waste shots to stop it tell you it was empty, that is illegal. You are allowed to know at all times exactly what sits in what vehicle.

The khorne and lash army you describe him to use is really not that great and pretty easy to defeat without any fancy units.

I use to have people who tried to run "empty transports" against me when I first started playing. I very quickly made them put a well represented unit ontop of the Transport because I was tired of them pulling BS rules on me that weren't legal. That solves the issue pretty well.

**Randall Turner**

Okay, so you don't have a burning need to engage early, you can hang back. (Sitting back while he's spawning scarabs is bad news.)

Dropping into scarabs & CCB's with your dread in a drop pod is not going to end well, though.

A lot of CCB/Scarab players rush forwards early under cover of the solar pulses, they'd be ideal targets for searchlighting. (Searchlights are cheap, one point each.) Might even bubble-wrap your transport if he rushes up - won't help against the CCB's that much b/c he'll just move over them to ding the transport, but might keep the scarabs off them for a turn. <shrug>

edit: yeah, anonymous transports are illegal cheese. But that's not a Necron thing, they usually only have one or two and the "contents" are usually firing.

**salamander117**

was talking about csm with rhino

dont usually use DP it was an idea from earlier

and what do you mean about search lights being 1 point

**Randall Turner**

It costs one point to equip your rhino's etc. with one.

**salamander117**

they already have them in wargear

**Randall Turner**

Do they? I have the GK codex and Necron codex here, the GK dudes have them available, but you have to buy them for one point. Yours may be free, that's fine.

**Pyriel-**

Pyriel- first nice name i just finished reading TOF triligy
second he tells me whats in them total but not whats in each one

First of all that is complete bs, the so called opponent is nothing more then a pile of horse manure for pulling illegal cheats on you like that.

Show the spanker this thread and also show it to everybody else in your gaming club and let him be ashamed for being such a "great" player.

Second of all "Pyriel" as in my nick came before the TOF books and the author actually based the librarian "Pyriel" name in the books after my online nick as a thanks for helping out with world creation ideas in the startup phase of writing the first book.
Kinda cool thing to brag about for fellow nerds

**salamander117**

very nice

Automatically Appended Next Post:
also change of plans

I WILL be playing him tomorrow
so wish me luck

And by the emperors will they shall feel my wrath

**Pyriel-**

Good luck dude

**salamander117**

thank you

and good luck in your future endeavors

**salamander117**

after all the hipe he did not show up

i didnt even get to burn a single cron

**Doomhunter**

He saw this thread and panicked methinks

**Pyriel-**

One can hope.

**salamander117**

well maybe

but next week he will not only have to defend against the emporers fury but also that of marines who want to purge the galaxy

**DAaddict**

Scouts look cool but they are a weak choice. As is one dreadnought or one vindicator or one razorback or one predator. You currently have enough to play a 1000 pt marine list and to go beyond that requires cash.

For the cash tight, my recommendation is sterngard and devastators. They provide more firepower and are not as efficient pointwise as razorbacks or predators but they are a lot cheaper to field. As I said, 2 boxes of devastators provides you with 4x plasma cannons, 4x lascannons, 4 x MM, and I believe 2 x ML. Also buy 1 box of regular marines and you should have enough to outfit 2 sternguard 5-man squads and get 1 devastator squad. That will put you in a position to play at 1500 points.

The other thing is to get a librarian on the field. He is cheap protection from lash and then you can add one ability you really like. Personally I like Null Zone but there are other more direct damage options if you like.

**salamander117**

but i like my scouts ... sarge punched out a necron heavy desroyer by himself

thanks though

**DAaddict**

I know it is tough to give up the scouts... I like them too and have seen them perform miracles... Scouts with shotguns taking down bloodthirsters, DE archons and the like... I just think that sniper rifles are poor really. Otherwise scouts can be a good choice Sadly the 5th ed sniper rules have made it a poor choice.
1 in 2 hit and 1 in 2 that hit actually wound. That converts to a squad of 10 managing to cause 2 wounds and if we are talking marines, 1/3 will actually kill. That is pretty rough when we are spending about 150 points and killing an average of 60 points of marines over 6 turns.

**Jihallah**

salamander117 wrote:but i like my scouts ... sarge punched out a necron heavy desroyer by himself

And I like grots, since one of my grots stabbed a bloodthirster in the eye and killed it.

...but does that make my grots a good unit

**EnormousName**

I am pretty sure grots are S2 and the thirter is T6, so, in fact, your grot cannot stab a thirster to death.

**salamander117**

maybe not but its the emotional bond between creator and plastic that makes this great

**evildrspock**

I would only agree to a lower points battle, or not play. It's not fair to be abused as a player.

**Jihallah**

EnormousName wrote:I am pretty sure grots are S2 and the thirter is T6, so, in fact, your grot cannot stab a thirster to death.

You get my point

Automatically Appended Next Post:

salamander117 wrote:maybe not but its the emotional bond between creator and plastic that makes this great

Oh I know

believe me I know
Just don't expect too much from favored units. Over estimating the effect of a beloved model or squad can have disastrous effects on the battlefield

**evildrspock**

I used to give models that perform heroic feats a red badge of courage on their breastplate. Like, a single Eldar Guardian surviving combat with a SM Termie Captain for 5 rounds, or something ridiculous like that. You gotta take your favorite units, otherwise why play if you've not having fun?

**salamander117**

thank you evildrspock
and the sarge had a PF so yeah he can punch him out