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On the subject of quality control at GW...

I picked up the new Empire book to check it out... and found a page that was smudged to illegibility. The guy running the FLGS was... displeased at the discovery. I learned some new phrases from him.

Akroma06 wrote: IMO they seem to be getting better than at the start and people just feed off of the original fire.

I'm not feeding off any original fire, I'm expessing my very recent experience, where 0 out of 13 were good enough not to pee me off. And that was at GW HQ, nottingham, the place that you would have thought theyd be able to find at least one perfect cast of lelith!!!

I personaly hate fine cast, plastic is ugly easy to break. I bought Lelith too. There were no missing parts but I spent hour and a half to make it like it should be, and the next step gluing hands on. Ohh my god it took so long to make it normal, in next 2 days I needed to do it again and now It finaly holds together, đizz!

Try finding a Necorn Lord/I.C. whos staff isn't bent to gak and back.

I bought a C'tan, and two of my friends bought a Haemonculi and Draigo.

The C'tan was ok. A few parts were a bit shorter or didn't fit exactly right, and there were some bubbles in the deceivers... cloth thingy. And it's didn't fit into the base. One peg did, but the bottom of the cloth part was curved up at a 15 degree angle and was actually too long to fit in anything.

Haemonculi was ok. My friend also bought a metal one, and found that one far easier to put together.

Draigo was a pain to get together and his sword looks like bendy straw. Not buying finecast again, and I am very glad that my C'tan did not have more severe problem.

Oh dear, here we go again...

beezley1981 wrote:I hate this. The closest store that caries GW minis in any substantial number is hours away. If I buy any Finecast, I'll be doing it online, that that's horrifying to me.

Same for me, thats why I have decided not to buy Finecast at all. Ill keep buying GW plastics, maybe some metal now & then, but I will not touch Finecast.

What this thread needs is photos.

As a potential customer, I want to see the minis - miscast ones, defects, or ones that people think are perfectly fine, unpainted and straight out of the box. I want to see what is being described rather than being told it.

Does anyone have a camera that can take a few shots of their minis, especially attached to the sprues? Thanks in advance.

In fact, when you buy a model kit, why not show us the whole batch straight out of the box so we can get an unbiased survey of which models came in unsatisfactory condition, and which ones came in satisfactory/superb condition?

TedNugent wrote:What this thread needs is photos.

As a potential customer, I want to see the minis - miscast ones, defects, or ones that people think are perfectly fine, unpainted and straight out of the box. I want to see what is being described rather than being told it.

Does anyone have a camera that can take a few shots of their minis, especially attached to the sprues? Thanks in advance.

In fact, when you buy a model kit, why not show us the whole batch straight out of the box so we can get an unbiased survey of which models came in unsatisfactory condition, and which ones came in satisfactory/superb condition?

This thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/414690.page

and this blog http://www.akaranseth.com/blog/7-8-fail.htm

especially the blog. Helpful pictures that outline what's wrong and what to look out for, if you have no idea.

!!!!!!! R A G E !!!!!!!

I was just getting back into Warhammer 40k and havent played since leaving school in july 2000.
so i spent a fortune on a shiny knew 0.2mm top-feed airbrush.a stack of r'k brushes and a small test spread of Vallejo,Reaper,Cote d'arms paint (I thin tone's layer+wet blend,Vallejo seems best for me),but i need to wait to see how they age.
anyway next was to find something to paint and reading the internet rely put me off GW ..but they cant really be that bad
...they are ! high pressure sale's with a rushed tone giving the impression there too busy to deal with customers but i can always shop on-line if they have lost there friendly atmosphere so I pick up an Avatar because nicely painted looks awesome and can be rely difficult to paint, i had to re texture the hair.the bloody hand was a mess the poor demi-god seemed to of had a vary traumatic time giving birth to something as the entire crotch area looked like it had be chewed on by a badly confused ork .. air bubbles.. miss-mould.warping...... G R R R R R R R

Love the game..just wish it was made by someone/anyone else.

any advice of a good game with nice models, I kinda like the 28-30mm scale.

Squigsquasher wrote:Oh dear, here we go again...

White knights gonna white knight...

bzippy83 wrote:

any advice of a good game with nice models, I kinda like the 28-30mm scale.

Infinity has some really nice models - the 'holographic' devices should be quite a challenge technically with OSL and clear blends. Not done any yet, but I can see it being tricksy (in a fun way, as opposed to having to fix the damn model).

i voted satisfied, but i did have to fill holes, remodel parts or exchange mini in some extreme cases.
i have to add, i did buy the special files, cleaning set and liquid greenstuff and i didnt find a mini where i didnt have to repair anything, i just don mind.

Yes I totally agree with this post! As many of you know, I really hate finecast - but I must let you know that I am not a GW hater. I just hate the way they overcharge for sub-standard products. I recently bought a Vargheist finecack model where the arm did not fit properly in the hole and the leg had one major air bubble - the air bubble was so big it cut the whole leg in half! Of course I cannot check these models before buying them as they are sealed in cardboard boxes. I flipped my lid and sent GW HQ an e-mail addressing my concerns with the finecack range and the sheer level of trouble I have with it. The reply from a chap called Kyle (I think) was complete and utter crap! The e-mail was nothing more than a pre-versed major stroke-a-thon for GW products. In my e-mail I outlined all the finecack models I bought and the details of their flaws.
The List:
Astorath the Grim - Ruined Wings and air bubbles in armour.
Commander Dante - Air bubbles on edges of armour and jump pack.
Huron Blackheart - Bad mis-casts in armour and extended hand.
Kaldor Draigo - Seriously bad mis-cast on the bottom of shield and bent sword.
Castellan Crowe - Bent sword and air bubbles in edge of right foot.
Ork Warboss with Attack Squigg - Air bubbles in squigg, horns and gun.
Ork Painboy and Orderly - Mis-casts in medical light housing, orderly and medical implements.
Boss Zagstrukk - The model is now nearly horizontal instead of approx 45 degree angle due to weight of the model.
Tankbustas - Mis-casts in nob and two boys.
Space Marine Chaplain with Jump Pack - Bent crozius and air bubble on the edges of the jump pack.

Varghulf - Seriously bad mis-cast/air bubble on right thigh and right wing does not fit the hole.
Vlad von Carstein - Mis-casts on both hands.
Isabella von Carstein - Missing half of face and massive air bubbles on skirt and cloak.
Archaon the Everchosen - Missing arm and large air bubbles on underside of horse.
Krell Lord of Undeath - Air bubble on helmet horn.

GW HQ (not store staff) do not care for customer care. When I went in to my local GW store to replace the model and tell them about the e-mails, the manager (who is a great chap) apologised! In fact I'm so sorry was the very first thing he said to me! I then told him that it's a great shame that the people in HQ cannot be the same. Needless to say that I told GW that I will not buy finecack anymore but will scoure eBay and the like for metal equivalents. Maybe in years to come they might be able to sort the problems out like excess flash, holes, parts missing and the hydrophobic nature of the plasticated resin, but until then - no chance!

Well. i have bought FOUR models, none of them having a miscast! yes, leliths impaler is a little bendy, but wasn't that always the case, especially with metal models? the worst "miscast" i have ever seen is a draigo with heaps of flash! i really don't see what the fuss is!

Tadhghouze wrote:Well. i have bought FOUR models, none of them having a miscast! yes, leliths impaler is a little bendy, but wasn't that always the case, especially with metal models? the worst "miscast" i have ever seen is a draigo with heaps of flash! i really don't see what the fuss is!

Flash isn't a miscast.

Your lucky you've not experienced such problems, but others (including me) have purchased poor quality models. For a price of a premium product, I expect one of such quality and when its advertised as being near 'perfect' I see it's obvious that GW will not change their attitude to Finecast.

I've been playing 40k since 2006, I've never had a single metal miscast though I've never truly been a fan of the material. Resin is cheaper, but now the model costs 20% more and is possibly going to be brittle, bent and possibly broken, not to mention miscast. Finecast even has a tendency to be paper thin.

To sum up my own experiences.

Lictor - Satisfactory. Not great. But Satisfactory.
2 Hydras - Satisfactory.

Friend's experience

Pirate WD mini - Good.

Both of us

12 25th Anniversary Miniatures (In Total) - Still not one acceptable model.

For 'game' standard models or large models with smooth surfaces the bubbles etc. aren't so much an issue. For limited pieces they better damn well be flawless and you'd at least expect some quality control.

12 for 12 bad casts is appaling to be honest.

bzippy83 wrote:
high pressure sale's with a rushed tone giving the impression there too busy to deal with customers but i can always shop on-line if they have lost there friendly atmosphere

That's why I stopped going to the GW store in Preston, this was around last summer. I'm relatively new to the hobby, but the guy in there wouldn't listen to what I wanted, just suggested everything with the highest price tag, and advice when it came to painting was literally a 20 second talk about how to do it, even though we were stood next to the paint station thing where he could show you. The service in there was shocking, the Manchester GW is a lot better, a lot friendlier staff

I've only bought one finecast model, the 25th anniversary marine, and its came out perfectly. I haven't bought anything else, but I'll be honest and say I'm really reluctant to

I guess I count as a veteran, being able to remember lead figures (mid 80's). The white alloy was much harder but stronger. I like my miniatures to feel substantial. Now I glue washers under their bases to make plastic feel like metal.

I don't particularly have a problem with the lightness of resin, but it's far too bendy, still snaps and I'd still really much rather have a metal miniature (apparently with the risk of slight shrinkage - I can't say I've ever noticed this) as opposed to the allegedly super-detailed Finecast with lots of details missing. I'm not interested in resculpting things.

I bought a Dante, wasn't particularly impressed. A month or so I bought Astorath to see if there has been any improvement. I can't see that there has. I am bemused about the assertions that GW's CS is "stellar". I emailed them the same night with photographic evidence of defects I neither could nor cared to repair myself. I got an insincere standard email. I emailed them again. Never heard a single thing again. They claim there is a small proportion of miniatures with defects. This is manifestly not true. I went through all the clampacks and got the only one I thought was defect-free. By my reckoning that means all the packs on sale, 100%, were defective. They would not send me a replacement without me returning the defective model. Although I too live close to WH World, I have better things to do with my limited free time than drive backwards and forwards to GW. I should not have to do that, and I was reluctant to give them back something which had some decently-cast bits in anticipation of getting something even worse.

I am afraid the result is that not only will I never buy Finecast again, I refuse to spend my money on ANY of GW's products full stop. That is not a particular worry for me - I have more than enough to keep me going, but I do wonder how many people would have to take similar action before the loss of revenue made any impact whatsoever on GW's management. I appreciate economic times are hard, but why can't GW accept lower profits for a few years like most other businesses in the UK, instead of churning out this resin rubbish? For me, a hobby is something you're supposed to enjoy, but GW's poisonous attitude has quite spoilt it for me.

Fra Charmelandro wrote:I guess I count as a veteran, being able to remember lead figures (mid 80's). The white alloy was much harder but stronger. I like my miniatures to feel substantial. Now I glue washers under their bases to make plastic feel like metal.

I don't particularly have a problem with the lightness of resin, but it's far too bendy, still snaps and I'd still really much rather have a metal miniature (apparently with the risk of slight shrinkage - I can't say I've ever noticed this) as opposed to the allegedly super-detailed Finecast with lots of details missing. I'm not interested in resculpting things.

I bought a Dante, wasn't particularly impressed. A month or so I bought Astorath to see if there has been any improvement. I can't see that there has. I am bemused about the assertions that GW's CS is "stellar". I emailed them the same night with photographic evidence of defects I neither could nor cared to repair myself. I got an insincere standard email. I emailed them again. Never heard a single thing again. They claim there is a small proportion of miniatures with defects. This is manifestly not true. I went through all the clampacks and got the only one I thought was defect-free. By my reckoning that means all the packs on sale, 100%, were defective. They would not send me a replacement without me returning the defective model. Although I too live close to WH World, I have better things to do with my limited free time than drive backwards and forwards to GW. I should not have to do that, and I was reluctant to give them back something which had some decently-cast bits in anticipation of getting something even worse.

I am afraid the result is that not only will I never buy Finecast again, I refuse to spend my money on ANY of GW's products full stop. That is not a particular worry for me - I have more than enough to keep me going, but I do wonder how many people would have to take similar action before the loss of revenue made any impact whatsoever on GW's management. I appreciate economic times are hard, but why can't GW accept lower profits for a few years like most other businesses in the UK, instead of churning out this resin rubbish? For me, a hobby is something you're supposed to enjoy, but GW's poisonous attitude has quite spoilt it for me.

That's strange, I had a similar problem, a few pieces missing, so I sent them an e-mail with the photo of the duplicate parts + my receipt, and got told "Please feel free to keep the parts you have, as a fellow ‘Nid player I know they’ll come in handy sooner rather than later." and my replacement part arrived a few days later

My finecast experience to date:

Necron Stormlord - Bent parts, used heat to fix.

Trazyn - Cape pretty well jacked. Got a replacement.

Haemonculus - Some air pockets had developed in the coat. Elected not to fill as it almost looked like it had been shot.

Box of Harlequins - After opening the box found I could build 3 guys with two chest pieces left over. Exchanged it at a local GW (fantastic guy) due to obvious mispackaging; new box good. However, in 85F heat they drooped on the little streamer thingies enough that they looked like they were laying down. Of course, I reheated and bent them back...Not looking forward to summer.

Zoanthropes(2) - Minor pockets in the wrong places, slight issues with parts fitting. Filed and filled.

Archon - Minor pockets. One head completely unusable, appeared squished. Left the pockets as battle damage and put the second head under a hive tyrants foot.

Plague Marines - lots of pockets, nicks and bent parts. If it had been any other model would have returned, but heck, they are plague marines after all.. Reshaped the bent pieces, left everything else.

*********

I have 6 armies each ranging in points from 2k to 5k. This represents a fair number of models.

In that time I've run across all sorts of issues regardless of medium: missing parts (Space Wolves tac squad - multiple backs, Nid metal gargoyles - wings, etc), seriously warped parts (monolith sides left between 1/4 to 1/2 inch gaps), etc. GW replaced each of those without issue.

Personally, I absolutely abhor metal. I've yet to purchase a metal model that actually fit together without a lot of work. Pinning a metal model is NOT fun. Also, I've yet to find a glue that will keep a metal model together for any amount of time. I've tried everything from various epoxies, CA/super glues and even liquid nails. From this perspective I am ecstatic about the move away from it.

The "thought" of finecast is a pretty good one. My main gripe is the low heat point at which the material becomes malleable. I store these on a shelving system in my garage. Our summers routinely hit 100F+ and my number one concern is that sometime this year I'll go out to the garage and see little pools of resin where models once were. If that happens I'll be sure to send photos to GW asking for replacements.

Grimtuff wrote:

White knights gonna white knight...

We had " haters gonna hate", now "white knights gonna white knight",

I thought Internet forums were for expessing opinions, sharing information, and generally being constructive!! I am aware many people have discussed the issues covered in this thread before, as have many peoole discussed how to paint mini's in numerous threads. Just because it's been covered already, doesn't mean it should be avoided there after. If an issue continues to be an issue it will keep coming up, and rightly deserves to do so.

So how about " pointless, uncunstructive commenters gonna pointlessly un-constructively comment"

Thanks everyone for your information shared, obviously I'm not alone in my finecast experience, aside from a few lucky people. So I have decided to not buy any new stuff from GW, they're not the company I remember them as. I still have several old minis that I will enjoy painting, and i can get my sons models second hand off ebay, thus not supporting this charade any more. After that I think I'll just make my own.

Well then, i've been in the hobby since 1996 and have a good bunch of miniatures - by bunch I mean enough to coat every square inch of a modern day home's floor space. In that time I have had only a few miscasts - all Forgeworld where the part expanded or shrunk - my FW Avatar was replaced 3 times.

Failures with Plastic Kits - none
Failures with White Metal - none
Failures with Pewter - none
Failures with Resin (from other companies) - none

Why don't I mention Finecast in the above list? The Finecast miniatures i've seen so far (which others have bought)... all had defects. Every single one. That is why I don't mention them - I will NEVER even so much as pick one up off the shelf, there simply isn't any point.

So how do I avoid this? By the following rules;

1. If there is a metal model equivalent - I will buy it
2. If said model is now only available as Finecast - I hit an auction/trade site's to find the model (see point 1)
3. If said model is not available in metal/plastic and ONLY in Finecast - I wait for a clever yet illegal company to recast it in metal (this is happening already with great, if not surpassed results).

Sickeningly, these dodgy companies out there do a far superior job and have had my return business. Even if they charged GW prices, I would still buy from them because they represent quality in a market (ok let's be honest, GW only) where QC has taken a nose dive. So no cash from me anymore. Only discount dealers in the US are getting my cash on plastic kits. As I type this, the AUD vs USD is 1.038... with the RRP discount I get, i'm saving 60% of the RRP cost here in Aus (that includes shipping).

There are ways of getting the quality you want at the right price to continue with the hobby that still impacts GW's bottom line (by not buying anything new - second hand or dodgy means only).

Aye, it's a sad state of affairs when the bootlegs are better than the originals.

Not to derail the thread (below points still relevant to the topic etc) at all but we copped a trifecta of shafting goodness last year down here in Aus.

1. Finecast was introduced (with a nice bump in price)
2. Embargo put on UK sales to ROW (Rest of World) customers
3. Price rise in general

So we lost quality, paid more for the privledge and lost quick sources for buying a full core army in bulk. The embargo thing was "semi" put into effect in the US back in 1999 from memory where Internet traders were "embargoed" as such. Thankfully there are some which will take email orders from us Downunder gamers.

The advent of Finecast has made it very difficult to do any ordering from cheaper sources due to the miscast rate now occuring. If you don't have a GW store close by that you're able to wander into for a replacement, then its alot of 'back and forth' pass the parcel shenanigans until you get what you're after - time and in some cases money (for postal costs) are lost... if not your sanity in the process.

This has opened up the stage for black market goods. People generally want to do the right thing morally when it comes to purchasing items - I know I would if the quality was there, but GW are doing their best to screw the customer seven ways from Sunday.

The thing is, at this time when people are squeezed for cash, we go looking for entertainment that is lasting and/or has value (personal or otherwise - think of it as a "pick me up"). Those who did the best in past bad economic times produced items of premium quality in a reasonable affordibility bracket - an example is a $5 cigar, pretty pricey for a cigar, but in hard times its still very affordable (premium pricing in an afforability bracket).

GW have placed themselves well for this target market, yet due to Finecast QC issues are fast losing customer justification for that ROI (return on investment). Ironic if the Warhammer we know today becomes the valued vintage "tin soldier" of the future - I'll be showing my grandkids the miniatures at the antique store talking about the golden days before it all went to poo... or is that slush given Finecast melts like butter in a warm climate?

Mine...........................(wait for it)...........................is fine!

there really is no need for this thread.

refer here for finecast in all its unadulterated glory.

poda_t wrote:there really is no need for this thread.

refer here for finecast in all its unadulterated glory.

Still, its interesting to see the results of this poll published above,

Why are these threads not locked as soon as they're posted? I know people have issues with Finecast but just how many of these threads do we need?


Ugh, there really should be a seperate subforum on Dakka called "Rumblin's an' Grumblin's" where people can go to complain and where people like me can avoid the haters-or, as I'm now going to call them, "black trolls".