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I suspect middle men. Importer/distributors that insert themselves between the foreign manufacturers and Australian retailers. They probably eat up the foreign exchange gains and make the retail margins poor enough that retailers lose out on that competitive advantage.

Then you tack on higher wages (including mandatory employer superannuation retirement contributions for the employees) and costs and things can get difficult.

For GW retailers, the parasite middle man is GW Australia. It doesn't need to exist. Retailers would probably be far, far happier ordering from GW UK and dealing with an extra brokerage charge any time they go over $1000.

if eBook prices are based on your location; could you use a proxy service to get them cheaper?

That's an interesting point actually..

Absolutely you can. People use VPNs and Proxies to get ebooks from other countries, to watch things like Hulu from outside the US and all sorts of things like that.

Why did I never think of trying that with Hulu?!

Henners91 wrote:if eBook prices are based on your location; could you use a proxy service to get them cheaper?

Probably. But I figure if the Black Library are that set on discouraging me from buying their product, there are plenty of other eBooks out there that I can buy instead without the bother of setting up a proxy.

insaniak wrote:
Walter Harvey threw that up as an argument as well (calling it 'un-Australian'... How many Australian-made TV's do you have in your stores, Mr Harvey?)

Who is Walter Harvey?

That was Gerry Harvey (of Harvey Norman). Wants more retail protection from the evil internet, but also wants to be allowed to source goods for less at overseas points of sale, which he can then sell at increased prices thanks to the "protection racket". He's a retailer, I get that he's in it to make money. He doesn't have to be a dick about it though.

Yeah but even he eventually gave in and set up his Ireland distribution chain to ship to Australia.

chromedog wrote:Who is Walter Harvey?

That was Gerry Harvey (of Harvey Norman).

Yeah, that one. The keys are close together

Bunnings our biggest hardware chain is making record profits and looking to put on more people Nation wide. Granted a lot of the stuff you wouldn't order from the internet, however their customer service and product knowledge is top notch.

I have heard retails cry foul over the inter net shopping however there customer service is woeful.

Like what was said by others above, I am more than happy to pay 10% import tax if I am saving 50-60% off the purchase price.

I still shop locally on items I can get cheaper overseas if they have really good customer service and product knowledge. Nothing beats these two elements IMHO.

I support and look after business that looks after me. I will always pay a premium for that kind of great service.

As to my gaming needs, if I had a good games store in Canberra in the North of the city I would spend all of my money there if they treated the customers well.

Till that happens I am shopping on line.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The difference in price in eBooks is just silly. I wish GW would cut that gak out.

-Loki- wrote:... the only one in recent memory was the new Mortal Kombat, which I'm still stewing over...

Why? You can buy a copy almost any time you like. Pick your platform. I've had it since it came out. Great game.

I can order from an error page?

If you could find me a current link, I'd be eternally grateful. As far as I can tell, it's not offered by them anymore.

Not that I really know, but I always thought things were expensive because it costs a lot to ship anything there.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Not that I really know, but I always thought things were expensive because it costs a lot to ship anything there.

Maelstrom has obviously proved that false, considering they offer free shipping to Australia. Shipping also gets cheaper per item as you send larger volumes. In this day of incredibly reliable and regular international transport, shipping costs are fairly minimal.

Prices for most goods are just a function of average income. An item which costs $60 in Australia (1% of average wage) might cost 30 USD and 25 GBP (within a certain margin of error and some adjustments for regional availability and taxes). Which was a fine and dandy way of doing business up until ~15 years ago, because you had few options other than to buy locally (or at most nationally), you had little idea about the prices of goods in other countries. Fast forward to today, and we have instantaneous knowledge of international prices, a booming online sales industry, a drastically and rapidly changed international currency exchange, and a slight economic recession.
Then factor in why people buy anything other than local. You do it because the (amount saved buying elsewhere) is greater than (inconvenience of extra time + cost of shipping), and when the purchase is both economically significant and planned in advance. Wargaming items definitely fit that bill. I could buy bread cheaper from the UK, but I can't wait for shipping. I could buy TV's cheaper from the US, but I can't pay for shipping. I can buy iPods from the US... and save money! And you'll find that is what people do.

Many specific industries in Australia are failing due to people locking to buy overseas, and they all fit that description. Designer clothes lines. Books. Portable electronics. Digital Media. ... wargames. Its not GW that hates Australia: like many many other businesses, including some of our largest retail chains, they are struggling to adapt to the new exchange rates and the huge online industry.

-Loki- wrote:I can order from an error page?

Hmm... interesting. They were there before. Now they're not. Could be out of stock. I know I got mine from there.

Maybe E-mail them?

Trasvi wrote:

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Not that I really know, but I always thought things were expensive because it costs a lot to ship anything there.

Maelstrom has obviously proved that false, considering they offer free shipping to Australia. Shipping also gets cheaper per item as you send larger volumes. In this day of incredibly reliable and regular international transport, shipping costs are fairly minimal.

Prices for most goods are just a function of average income. An item which costs $60 in Australia (1% of average wage) might cost 30 USD and 25 GBP (within a certain margin of error and some adjustments for regional availability and taxes). Which was a fine and dandy way of doing business up until ~15 years ago, because you had few options other than to buy locally (or at most nationally), you had little idea about the prices of goods in other countries. Fast forward to today, and we have instantaneous knowledge of international prices, a booming online sales industry, a drastically and rapidly changed international currency exchange, and a slight economic recession.
Then factor in why people buy anything other than local. You do it because the (amount saved buying elsewhere) is greater than (inconvenience of extra time + cost of shipping), and when the purchase is both economically significant and planned in advance. Wargaming items definitely fit that bill. I could buy bread cheaper from the UK, but I can't wait for shipping. I could buy TV's cheaper from the US, but I can't pay for shipping. I can buy iPods from the US... and save money! And you'll find that is what people do.

Many specific industries in Australia are failing due to people locking to buy overseas, and they all fit that description. Designer clothes lines. Books. Portable electronics. Digital Media. ... wargames. Its not GW that hates Australia: like many many other businesses, including some of our largest retail chains, they are struggling to adapt to the new exchange rates and the huge online industry.

I wonder why this is getting overlooked but I agree it seems obvious the reason for all your higher prices is the much higher wages Australians are paid, a cost which will allways find it's way to the product. They average person working in a retail or warehouse/factory work in the UK gets minimum wage or barely more. Considering the australian minimum wage is almost double it's no wonder you pay more.

Higher minimal wage = higher cost of living.

If the overseas ordering continues to undermine your home retail sector then get ready for it to fall flat on it's face. I would imagine that soon you're either going to see a reduction in wages or more likely, huge custom charges on overseas purchases.

Tax is not the issue. We actually pay less tax in Australia than what you would pay in the USA; and GST only raises prices by 10% at the most, less when you take into account the fact that it replaced a large number of previously existing taxes anyway.

As for Borders, they were selling a product that any book store could fill because they were simply a link in the chain; wholesale (publisher) to retailer (Borders) to customer (individuals), but Games Workshop is both the wholesale and retail sections of the chain. They do offer wholesale to private groups, but not many people can afford to undercut them much.

As far as I'm concerned with Games Workshop; I don't want to hear about how government policy is messing with things. There is no way that they are doing anything other than protecting a bottom line, to make them more attractive to investors. If they think the local market is unfair, they should find alternative solutions, like what we do. They could completely remove all their stores and let us make do with our clubs, our independent retailers and the internet, allowing them to ignore fees altogether. They could remove half or more of their stores and completely reorientate the remainders into hobby centres that require a monthly access fee (on that note, what would you pay for monthly access to a hobby centre that's actually oriented back towards the hobby?), and therefore allow them to drop prices by finding an alternative source of money. They could simply drop prices and absorb the hit to their bottom line to try to blow Privateer Press out of the water (the miniatures themselves are approximately the same price; the financial benefits are shifting are because we need less of them). They could simply just remove half their stores and therefore halve their fees off what remains, allowing them to drop prices. They could change the way their game is marketed to match the Privateer Press model down here and operate through independent retailers in general, shifting the costs of most fees to the independents and allowing them to drop prices. We can claim that it's all oriented to younger kids with cashed up parents, but it's not very often that I actually see a younger kid in a local Games Workshop store. I just don't see how they picked this traditional, business catering only solution when there's other ways to do it. I don't see why they go to so much trouble to tarnish their name to pre-existing wargamers to earn what little income can be made out of the Australian market.

Henners91 wrote:In New Zealand they just play 40k on a macro scale using sheep as proxies.

Its funny because New Zealand was know for its sheep 30 years ago. The Sheep industry took a very bad turn in the mid 90s and is only just recovering now.

On topic. Did some exchange rates maths with the help of the GW webside. For a box a tactical marianes....

Us $37.25 US
Aus $63.98 US
Nz $59.00 US
Uk $36.50 US

New Zealands minnium wage is $15NZ at the moment too, but we are worse off. We have a 15% GST. Winge winge winge. There is a reason that hundreds leave new Zealnad every year for aus.

I don't know if this is a viable corelation but everyone I know in the uk that plays warhammer is skint ( no money ) and everyone that plays warhammer is skint ( no money ) depending on job, age, warhammer seriousness etc. but I think, and this is just my opinion, that games workshop is equilizing the money. The prices are just to equilize the money in a country and another thing is that money is just a promise from the government.

Henners91 wrote:In New Zealand they just play 40k on a macro scale using sheep as proxies.

Lol
Who makes the sheep miniatures?
A welsh company?

Avakael wrote:on that note, what would you pay for monthly access to a hobby centre that's actually oriented back towards the hobby?

The GW battle bunker in Sydney when it opened had paid membership to use the gaming area out back and yet there was no shortage of people to pay it (I was one of them), and the behaviour was better (as you could have that membership revoked (no refund) if you broke the rules and that meant gaming somewhere else). When they opened it up so that the bunker games area was free to join and use, the terrain didn't survive for long, the toilet became toxic, and the tables and floor became somewhat sticky with spilled food and sodas.

As it is, I am a member of a club which has a membership fee (but we get discounts at game shops out of it and discounted tourney entry among other things).
The venue rules keep the riff-raff and children out, and the members are well aware that if we don't follow them as well, then we can also be kicked out.

ifStatement wrote:
I wonder why this is getting overlooked but I agree it seems obvious the reason for all your higher prices is the much higher wages Australians are paid, a cost which will allways find it's way to the product. They average person working in a retail or warehouse/factory work in the UK gets minimum wage or barely more. Considering the australian minimum wage is almost double it's no wonder you pay more.
Higher minimal wage = higher cost of living.
If the overseas ordering continues to undermine your home retail sector then get ready for it to fall flat on it's face. I would imagine that soon you're either going to see a reduction in wages or more likely, huge custom charges on overseas purchases.

Remember that its not necessarily 'higher minimum wage'... the numeric value is higher. But imagine we're in, say, Indonesia, and the average wage is 10000000 rupees - or $1000 USD. (numbers pulled out of the air).
Higher *numeric* minimum wage = higher *numeric* cost of living, but not necessarily higher *relative* cost of living. Thats why converting costs into % of average income (or more scientifically, the Big Mac Index or Purchasing Power Parity) is more useful than looking at straight numbers.

Overseas ordering may continue to undermine the retail sector, but neither of your suggested outcomes will occur. It is negatively affecting a select few industries. Other industries are positively benefiting from it - its very cheap to import lots of goods. Other countries are positively benefiting from it. And in 10 years time after another economic shakeup, we might end up on the bottom again and be completely screwed. And with exchange rates like they are, some goods might need a 50% or more tax to get them anywhere near parity.
And as for reducing wages?... not going to happen.
As discussed above, a bunch of retailers attempted to get our GST imposed upon goods ordered from overseas (currently it only affects orders over $1000) but it turned out that the government would spend more money collecting than they would raise.

If a retailer of this set of goods which are cheap to order overseas needs to provide something special. Some service that is impossible to get online. If GW retail wants to survive in Australia, they need to *increase* the size and scope of their stores, rather than cutting down to a 1-man store.

Henners91 wrote:When they insist it be censored, do you mean that Aussies get modified examples ala Germany?

So, a game with decapitations has these removed, or blood is dyed purple, etc?

Or do you mean that they kick up a right hoo-ha and insist on some inquiry that ultimately gets nowhere?

I had to mod Left for dead to get limbs flying off.

Trasvi wrote:Its not GW that hates Australia: like many many other businesses, including some of our largest retail chains, they are struggling to adapt to the new exchange rates and the huge online industry.

And in GW's case, their "struggling to adapt" consists of closing their eyes, putting their hands over their ears and going "lalalalalala!"

My local retailer orders from GW US (as they closed GW Canada to save on staff costs). The owner's been getting tired of poor treatment (like suddenly not qualifying for free shipping because of arbitrary item categories and being conveniently short shipped new items on release days so that only the local GW will have them in stock) and demanded that since the product is coming from the US and the owner is the one who has to deal with clearing it through customs, that the store should pay US prices just like everything else she imports from the US. The GW rep said no, and now the store has started clearing GW. Fortunately for her, years of "screw Canada" pricing have made a big opening for Flames of War and Warmachine, so GW already makes up only a small portion of that store's sales. The owner knows local retailers can't compete with American online discounters who can get things to Canadians for less than her wholesale price.

Australia are rightfully despised because they bowl underarm in the cricket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K65_spUU05s

Captain Toad wrote:Australia are rightfully despised because they bowl underarm in the cricket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K65_spUU05s

Given that it was 20 years ago and the rules were subsequently changed to stop it from happening again, I think most people have got over it by now...

I still maintain it is due to Ricky Ponting.

insaniak wrote:

Captain Toad wrote:Australia are rightfully despised because they bowl underarm in the cricket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K65_spUU05s

Given that it was 20 years ago and the rules were subsequently changed to stop it from happening again, I think most people have got over it by now...

Except for the Kiwis, who still bring it up. And sorry-for-themselves brits (whom it never had an effect on - since it was an Aus v NZ game).

I would not mind paying more in Oz for GW products if I knew that they had parity pricing like Lego does.

The argument that the distance items have to get shipped from the place of manufacture is a reason why items in Oz cost more is a bit of a cop-out as items have to travel further to the US from China than to Oz and yet can still cost less than half the price

London-Shanghai distance is 11884 nautical miles
Sydney-Shanghai distance is 5215 nautical miles
Seattle-Shanghai distance is 20520 nautical miles
New York-Shanghai distance is 13903 nautical miles
all from http://ports.com/sea-route/port-of-seattle,united-states/port-of-shanghai,china/#/?a=3056&b=0&c=Port%20of%20London,%20United%20Kingdom&d=Port%20of%20Shanghai

The actual answer (trust me on this, I'm a professional) is that there are too many scary spiders and assorted poisonous creatures that kill off GW employees. They have to hike the prices to retrain new employees after old ones fall prey to Australia's... robust ecosystem.

In all seriousness though, the whole Australia and gaming prices issue is one I've always been curious about.

Someone get a beret... REVOLUTION!

Haha!

Its an outright crap situation. I don't think any amount of bitching or moaning is about to make GW go 'durr lets lower prices guys!"
In fact, even with a change of management, it would have to be a VERY sympathetic individual that dropped prices in Australia.

A worldwide scheme that matched the prices all along with only slight differentials to cover shipping (at least to the extent that it costs just as much to get it shipped from overseas than the store) so that buying overseas isn't a viable option.

Yes our hobby is expensive - but hell, you all knew that when you got in, you still know it, and you'll know it a few years down the track. If it really does bother you that much - hit up another company like Wyrd miniatures, or get into Infinity.