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McNinja wrote:

pretre wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Or Bloodtide where they were corrupted.

As has been brought up everytime this comes up, the Bloodtide was PHYSICAL corruption. No one is immune to physical corruption, including SOB and GK. Immune to temptation and corruption of the soul is a wholly different thing.

Not only is there zero indication of any sort of physical corruption, but it still does not excuse the GK slaughtering the pure and innocent SoB. There is nothing indicating that the SoB blood was needed, as the SoB rely on faith, which is not something that resides in blood. It's funny how the GK would be the single best Khorne force in the universe if they weren't so "for the emperor." I mean, killing SoB, slaughtering damn near a sector just to keep themselves a secret...

The Grey Knights didn't slaughter the people in the sector so much as the inquisition trying to cover for them. The killing SoB who were just holding out to use there blood was a little.... over the top.

DarknessEternal wrote:

McNinja wrote: As it stands, Sister of Battle seem to be the only army that is actually truly incorruptible.

You mean except for that time they went rogue against the Imperium before backtracking like a Karma Houdini?

They've also had one Sister go to Chaos of her own free will. Grey Knights haven't lost any brothers to corruption.

Deadshot wrote:IIRC it did say pure blood was needed. SoB are more expendable than GK and have pure blood.

No no, it said a talisman of purity. Last time I checked, incorruptible meant you don't need dumb trinkets. This goes straight back to the excessive hyperbole of Crowe being the purest of the pure.

That being said, I like how the GK plan A was to slaughter the only ones who had fought it yet. Yeah, good job killing the people who know what you're fighting against. I know GK are master of anti-daemon shenanigans, but come on. That just makes no tactical sense.


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Lord Magnus wrote:

McNinja wrote:

pretre wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Or Bloodtide where they were corrupted.

As has been brought up everytime this comes up, the Bloodtide was PHYSICAL corruption. No one is immune to physical corruption, including SOB and GK. Immune to temptation and corruption of the soul is a wholly different thing.

Not only is there zero indication of any sort of physical corruption, but it still does not excuse the GK slaughtering the pure and innocent SoB. There is nothing indicating that the SoB blood was needed, as the SoB rely on faith, which is not something that resides in blood. It's funny how the GK would be the single best Khorne force in the universe if they weren't so "for the emperor." I mean, killing SoB, slaughtering damn near a sector just to keep themselves a secret...

The Grey Knights didn't slaughter the people in the sector so much as the inquisition trying to cover for them. The killing SoB who were just holding out to use there blood was a little.... over the top.

Actually, the First Battle of Armageddon entry shows that they actually slaughtered the fudge out of a few billion people. Page 13. Third paragraph. Logan Grimnar's acts forced the GK to expand the scope of their culling.

pretre wrote:

McNinja wrote: As it stands, Sister of Battle seem to be the only army that is actually truly incorruptible.

You mean except for that time they went rogue against the Imperium before backtracking like a Karma Houdini?

Not to go off topic, but what are you talking about?

The Vandire Apostasy. No matter what side you think was "the Imperium" they betrayed one of them.

Also, there were plenty of chaos Sisters in the Ephrael Stern stuff.

"Scientifically, the Order master would be the worst choice to give that blade to. Any kind of position of authority makes the person more susceptible to lying, hypocrisy and lack of guilt. All things a daemon would find very useful. "

Except, as stated Crowe is beyond such things.

" If it goes above that, the person isn't a Grey Knight, since the codex states repeatedly that they are all incorruptible."

How about some references?

Tales of the Dark Millennium has a tale of a Sister turned to Chaos so now it is only the GK's who have not been turned.

I like Deadshot's rule but without the auto win. LOVE the idea of not being able to shoot him until he attacks you!

I have this vision of GK's fleeing from Crowe and him running after them "Heeeeerrrrrreeeeessss JOHNNY !"

"Thusly armoured, a Grey Knight's presence becomes unpalatable to Daemons, making him immune to corruption..."

from Lexicanum, because I can't get the codex at the moment.

And if Crowe actually was beyond such things then he would be aware of the hubris involved in assuming he was beyond such things enough to take and use a tool of Chaos.

Arn't the original Exorcists supposedly Exorcised GK possessed by Lesser Daemons? On purpose by order of the Inq?

That'd be ALL members of the Exorcists chapter. They retain far more Scouts/neophytes than any other chapter because many do not survive the possession and exorcism.

No the Exorcists were normal Space Marines who underwent "Daemonic Possession Therapy" but they had a squad of GK's nearby to shut them down if they went haywire

Sorry, I meant all are subject to daemonic possession and exorcism, not the GK part.

From Lexicanum:

The Marines of the Chapter underwent a process known as "Daemonic Possession Therapy". Each Marine was, under very tight security, subject to possession by a minor denizen of the Warp. The creature was allowed to remain within the host body for twelve hours until they were cast out by a Daemon Hunter. Some of the Marines were so damaged physically and psychologically that they had to be terminated. Most however survived and needed only minor reconstructive surgery.
After a minor period of recuperation the subjects were taught the ways of combating Daemons, trained in the use of the 666 verses of the Book of Exorcisms and equipped with the weapons of an Exorcist. To test their new creations, the Marines were put into combat on a Daemon World on the northern edge of the Eye of Terror. A squad of the Grey Knights were held in reserve, just in case they turned on their masters, while the Exorcist Space Marines achieved a kill ratio of 97:1. Most impressive, especially against Daemons. Test results showed that their adrenaline production tripled and the levels of serotonin dropped drastically. This made the Marines much more aggressive and gave them increased combat effectiveness. Only 1% of the Marines fell to Daemonic infestation again, but the scientists believed they could eradicate the likelihood of this happening. On the basis that their souls are incorruptible and pure, they are effectively invisible to most warp daemons as their souls do not register for the leak of the mortal corruption. Only extremely powerful daemons are able to spot them.3
Twelve of their companies were sent to Armageddon to fight in the Third War for Armageddon. They maintain two additional Scout Companies to have high influx of neophytes. Without such, the Exorcists will cease to exist due to their highly unconventional training methods.7
The Exorcists were involved in the Badab War against rebel Chapters5. The Exorcists are also one of only four Space Marine Chapters to have both fought in the Third War for Armageddon and against the Thirteenth Black Crusade.2,3

Durza wrote:"Thusly armoured, a Grey Knight's presence becomes unpalatable to Daemons, making him immune to corruption..."

from Lexicanum, because I can't get the codex at the moment.

And if Crowe actually was beyond such things then he would be aware of the hubris involved in assuming he was beyond such things enough to take and use a tool of Chaos.

He doesn't use a tool of Chaos tho' does he. His superior piety means he never falls to the seduction of the blade.

The thusly armoured bit refers to his training, point is that the Knights will could fail in the face of immense daemonic pressure.

Crowe is of stronger stuff, like all the Purifiers, who are identified as possessing stronger psychic abilities.

I knew that all Exorcists had it done, but their parent chapter is listed as GK. As the original marines have the same.geneseed as the parent, untill their own geneseed strain is isolated and grown from scratch, that would mean possessed Grey Knights.


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Indeed purifiers do have stronger abilities but ix
nstead of.more and diverse.powers like Libbies, tgey have a primal of flame or light.

Crowe by all rights should be Mastery Lvl 2 at least. Probably psychic fighting with the sword keeps him from using his full power.

DarknessEternal wrote:

pretre wrote:

McNinja wrote: As it stands, Sister of Battle seem to be the only army that is actually truly incorruptible.

You mean except for that time they went rogue against the Imperium before backtracking like a Karma Houdini?

Not to go off topic, but what are you talking about?

The Vandire Apostasy. No matter what side you think was "the Imperium" they betrayed one of them.

Also, there were plenty of chaos Sisters in the Ephrael Stern stuff.

The Vandire Apostasy wasn't the Sisters going against the Imperium. Vandire tricking them into working for him and then them turning on him when they found out what happened. As to the Ephrael Stern stuff, /shrug there's some wacky stuff in a lot of BL material.

Durza wrote:"Thusly armoured, a Grey Knight's presence becomes unpalatable to Daemons, making him immune to corruption..."

from Lexicanum, because I can't get the codex at the moment.

And if Crowe actually was beyond such things then he would be aware of the hubris involved in assuming he was beyond such things enough to take and use a tool of Chaos.

I believe that means that the denizens of the warp cannot physically corrupt the Grey Knight through demonic touch, remember that in the imperium being touched by a daemon would mean that you are tainted with an unholy presence, and while the Daemons may still be able to kill the knights with their weapons, it has been shown that a daemon cannot physically touch and corrupt a Grey Knight, even without armour because of the sigil tattoos which they carry. The armour does not make the immune to the effect of Chaos, it serves as a ward against corruption of the body by a daemon (Which to the imperium would = taint, and require purging. They are talking about the armour being.... armour. Just because a Grey Knight has not fallen to Chaos yet, does not mean they are incorruptible, although thus far they have all resisted corruption. The Purifiers are especially resistant to the temptations of the warp, and have pure minds. Crowe is the strongest, most pure, and the most resistant to the voice of the Chaotic powers, he is able to use his Psychic abilities to push the daemon in the blade to neutrality. To try to use it would be giving in to the voice of Chaos. Crowe is the most pure Grey Knight, with the least of the temptations. (Excluding our Mary-Sue friend, Draigo). If I had a Daemon artifact of that power, I sure as hell would put it in the hands of someone with that psychic might and resistance to guard it.

Magpie wrote:

Durza wrote:"Thusly armoured, a Grey Knight's presence becomes unpalatable to Daemons, making him immune to corruption..."

from Lexicanum, because I can't get the codex at the moment.

And if Crowe actually was beyond such things then he would be aware of the hubris involved in assuming he was beyond such things enough to take and use a tool of Chaos.

He doesn't use a tool of Chaos tho' does he.

Um...
1) A daemon weapon is a tool of Chaos.
2) Castellan Crowe uses a daemon weapon.
Therefore...
3) Castellan Crowe uses a tool of Chaos.

His superior piety means he never falls to the seduction of the blade.

It is a very short slip to go from
"It is the lesser of two evils for me to use the sword but not utilise its powers. At least no follower of Chaos will get it."
to
"It is the lesser of two evils for me to only use the sword's powers when I really need to. At least no follower of Chaos will get it, and it saves the lives of other Grey Knights"
to
"It is the lesser of two evils for me to use the sword's powers whenever I need to, even against those who try to take it from me. At least no follower of Chaos will get it, and it saves the lives of other Grey Knights- they just don't appreciate the sacrifice I'm making."
to
"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

The thusly armoured bit refers to his training, point is that the Knights will could fail in the face of immense daemonic pressure.

Crowe is of stronger stuff, like all the Purifiers, who are identified as possessing stronger psychic abilities.

Stronger psychic abilities does not equate to being less likely to be corrupted by daemons. If they chose the wielder based on that, they would have given it to a Pariah.

And now it's my turn to ask you for a source where a Grey Knight fails under immense daemonic pressure.