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ZebioLizard2 wrote:So everything goes back into the one book for everyone, gray knights go back to just being strike squads and terminators, as well as a just a captain/grand master option.

Without the fluff nothing would have changed for anything, and the fluff is what can have additional change. Else the blood angels would have just been the "One unique squad" and space wolves would have been the "Gray hunters with true grit!" option.

Kinda, but in reverse.

If a chapter has something unique about it, that makes it stand out from the other 999 chapters, then maybe it should get it's own dex. If you've got a cool idea, run with it and expand on it. So rather than simplifying it down to one core nugget, take that core and flesh it out.

Grey knights are all psykers with force weapons. They get a codex.

Space wolves are vikings in space, and very non-codex. Sure, they can have one too.

Blood Angels have Death Company and like punching things. It's a stretch, but whatever.

Black Templars are very non-codex, and have a handful of unique units, and they've got that whole crusade thing going on. They can have a codex.

Dark Angels.... well, they've got nothing that makes them stand out from the herd. At least, nothing that makes them stand out more than the other major chapters, like Salamanders or Relictors. Blood Ravens even.

I understand that any codex writer could jam more background in there, but why should Dark Angels get that treatment over the other chapters? Their core just isn't that different or interesting to start with.

Aye but you are forgetting GW officially noted that they wouldn't reduce anymore Codexes after the gak they got thrown at them for Squats and the other 'multi codexes' they tried out in previous generations of 40K and fantasy.

Blood Angels as has been noted only had Death Company and Furiso dreads, the Baal Pred and Jump pack Honour guard to make them stand out before their current book. Special Characters as well of course.
Their new book added a few units and modified others to grant more unique ideas for the book.

Dark Angels will be the same, however Dark Angels already have Deathwing and Ravenwing to make them stand out, so by simply enhancing those two, adding a couple of new things (the Chaplain unit, much like the Sanguinary Priest squad, seems likely) and so on, and this book is really easy to justify.

I'm think thing Angels of Redemption fans wil be happy as well, as I'd be guessing they might get a Special Character leader/Captain at long last, ala Gabriel Seth.


On a side note, has any Dark Angel fans here grabbed the new paint set to have a look at the Marines that are blatently out of the 6th box?

Think I might pick on up today.

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Aye but you are forgetting GW officially noted that they wouldn't reduce anymore Codexes after the gak they got thrown at them for Squats and the other 'multi codexes' they tried out in previous generations of 40K and fantasy.

Blood Angels as has been noted only had Death Company and Furiso dreads, the Baal Pred and Jump pack Honour guard to make them stand out before their current book. Special Characters as well of course.
Their new book added a few units and modified others to grant more unique ideas for the book.

Dark Angels will be the same, however Dark Angels already have Deathwing and Ravenwing to make them stand out, so by simply enhancing those two, adding a couple of new things (the Chaplain unit, much like the Sanguinary Priest squad, seems likely) and so on, and this book is really easy to justify.

I'm think thing Angels of Redemption fans wil be happy as well, as I'd be guessing they might get a Special Character leader/Captain at long last, ala Gabriel Seth.


On a side note, has any Dark Angel fans here grabbed the new paint set to have a look at the Marines that are blatently out of the 6th box?

Think I might pick on up today.

Yeah, almost all codexes were boring before their current 5th ed incarnation. Remember, DA is a 4th edition codex. Most of the things you are comparing them to are really quite new.

ALSO: They do have unique features:

Fearless Bikers with Teleport Homers who can take a Land Speeder. They also have Scout, so move them up and bring down some Terminators.

Fearless Terminators with a variable squad. Special version of drop pod assault, meaning that I can bring down 2 squads of Terminators from a 1000 point list on my first turn.

Being able to use these to bring down a ton of fearless Terminators backing up fearless bikers.

Being able to take both of the above as troops.

Yeah, I've seen the box set. Now I'm afraid they're going to put DA into the SM Codex, as in every starter box I've seen had SM.

Well the rumour is Dark Angels are going to be in the 6th box, and there is also a rumour that GW is planning to make Dark Angels, 'stress Dark Angels' the poster boys for this edition.

Not sure if that means staff will get Green Shirts instead of blue ones for Games Day?

The models are supposed to have moulded pads, if this is correct, then this box is different as previously even when the box was themed around the other chapters, the pads where kept clean so any chapter symbol could be placed there by the buyer.

If these figs do have Dark Angel Iconography on them, then a) they have to be from the 6th box, no way would they do a lone sprue for a paint set.
b) It means they are concentrating on Dark Angels, if they where pulling Dark Angels back into the Marine book, they'd have left the Chapter pad blank.

Grey knights are all psykers with force weapons. They get a codex.

They didn't get a codex till 5th edition. Before it was just Terminators (up till 3rd) Pure Terminator squads with a captain or grandmaster in terminator armor.

In 3rd they gained Strike squads, which don't have terminator armor. Infact by having them in 5th added to the "More power armor all the time"

Because even in 3rd edition their "force weapons" weren't ACTUAL FORCE WEAPONS. They gave a +2 strength bonus, and only the grand master could activate his as a force weapon. Heck the standard squads didn't even have a Power Weapon

Space wolves are vikings in space, and very non-codex. Sure, they can have one too.

Exactly how are space wolves non-codex. I really, Really would like to know, and vikings in space doesn't matter at all, it's just fluff remember.

Black Templars are very non-codex, and have a handful of unique units, and they've got that whole crusade thing going on. They can have a codex.

You mean like every other chapter? Black templars are more or less unique though comparatively, so I did give them a pass. They even have the holy hand grenade! Can't wait to see what they gain later on though, I really want a horde power armor army.

I understand that any codex writer could jam more background in there, but why should Dark Angels get that treatment over the other chapters? Their core just isn't that different or interesting to start with.

Because it's easy to do with their current fluff, due to the examples I have given.

Yeah, I've seen the box set. Now I'm afraid they're going to put DA into the SM Codex, as in every starter box I've seen had SM.

2nd had blood angels
3rd edition had black templars

Both at the time were unique dex's independant from codex Ultramarines or Codex Vanilla.

^ are you for reals?

Space Wolves are definently non-codex.

Reasons:
Wolf priests, take the roll of chaplains and apothecaries.

Rune priests, no librarians.

they have more than 10 companies, and they call them great companies.

their company leaders, called Wolf Lords, are basically independant, and only roll together from time to time.

there are probably other reasons too, but those are the ones i can think of off the top of my head.

Reasons:

Wolf priests, take the roll of chaplains and apothecaries.

So they are chaplains and apocatharies with a different name.

Rune priests, no librarians.

Draw from the warp like any other psyker, acts as a librarian.

they have more than 10 companies, and they call them great companies.

Ooh, more companies, sure this is interesting but can it convert to gameplay?

their company leaders, called Wolf Lords, are basically independant, and only roll together from time to time.

So their captains don't interact, interesting.

Now how about how they fight? What they use in combat, you know, things that directly translate into gameplay? Afterall it's what the OP was asking too.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Now how about how they fight? What they use in combat, you know, things that directly translate into gameplay? Afterall it's what the OP was asking too.

True dat

Mainly one of my wishlisting things for more "Pre-heresy tech" Will translate to having Mortis Contemptor Dreadnoughts as a dex choice. Can't tell me that wouldn't be unique.

Kaldor wrote:Their core just isn't that different or interesting to start with.

Opinion once again.

I'm not sure I want DA to be the posterboys. They would be a whole lot... well, less secretive.

@Morathi: Yeah, as far as I can tell they are sculpted pads, as they also seem to have the DA Tactical symbol on the opposite shoulder pad.

Anyway, back on topic, if DA are going to be in the next starter set, then they won't get rid of the codex. They'll probably replace the current one instead. Especially since they have bothered to convert the MotR into finecast and produced the DA vets box plus the Ravenwing.

Kaldor wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:So everything goes back into the one book for everyone, gray knights go back to just being strike squads and terminators, as well as a just a captain/grand master option.

Without the fluff nothing would have changed for anything, and the fluff is what can have additional change. Else the blood angels would have just been the "One unique squad" and space wolves would have been the "Gray hunters with true grit!" option.

Kinda, but in reverse.

If a chapter has something unique about it, that makes it stand out from the other 999 chapters, then maybe it should get it's own dex. If you've got a cool idea, run with it and expand on it. So rather than simplifying it down to one core nugget, take that core and flesh it out.

Grey knights are all psykers with force weapons. They get a codex.

Space wolves are vikings in space, and very non-codex. Sure, they can have one too.

Blood Angels have Death Company and like punching things. It's a stretch, but whatever.

Black Templars are very non-codex, and have a handful of unique units, and they've got that whole crusade thing going on. They can have a codex.

Dark Angels.... well, they've got nothing that makes them stand out from the herd. At least, nothing that makes them stand out more than the other major chapters, like Salamanders or Relictors. Blood Ravens even.

I understand that any codex writer could jam more background in there, but why should Dark Angels get that treatment over the other chapters? Their core just isn't that different or interesting to start with.

you mean they are no diferent appart from the whole list of things i already mentioned, and everyone else has mentioned, its clear you seem to be ignoring the fact that they are very diferent.
It seems you are saying "there is nothing to set them apart... apart from the things that clearly do"

Dark Angels are a more mature Marine codex, I think. Compared to the more "derp everything I have is slightly better than yours derp" BA and SW codexes, Dark Angels have a much more relaxed style/colour scheme.

That and Deathwing Terminators just look badass:



Got to love that bone-coloured colour scheme.

Dark Angels definitely deserve a new codes. They should be on par with BA and SW. I like their fluff and models (RW and robed Vets).

wuestenfux wrote:Dark Angels definitely deserve a new codes. They should be on par with BA and SW. I like their fluff and models (RW and robed Vets).

DA are misunderstood. They shall soon be the most OP codex EVAR. Something along the lines of:

A Venerable Dreadnought may replace his Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with 15 Plasma Cannons. Just to really piss off your opponents...

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Dark Angels definitely deserve a new codes. They should be on par with BA and SW. I like their fluff and models (RW and robed Vets).

DA are misunderstood. They shall soon be the most OP codex EVAR. Something along the lines of:

A Venerable Dreadnought may replace his Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with 15 Plasma Cannons. Just to really piss off your opponents...

A Predator with plasma cannon sponsons, a Razorback with plasma cannon turret, and a Speeder whose main weapon is a plasma cannon (see Sammael).

I think the contention between the parties comes down to how you have phrased your question:

Kaldor wrote:Do they really deserve a codex of their own?

Many would say that due to their detailed history, unique organisation (Deathwing, Ravenwing) that they do deserve a Codex. However your point appears to be that their current incarnation does not sufficiently distinguish the Chapter to warrant a standalone publication. Some clever special rules, and a few new units couldrectify this, pleasing both parties.

wuestenfux wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Dark Angels definitely deserve a new codes. They should be on par with BA and SW. I like their fluff and models (RW and robed Vets).

DA are misunderstood. They shall soon be the most OP codex EVAR. Something along the lines of:

A Venerable Dreadnought may replace his Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with 15 Plasma Cannons. Just to really piss off your opponents...

A Predator with plasma cannon sponsons, a Razorback with plasma cannon turret, and a Speeder whose main weapon is a plasma cannon (see Sammael).

A Predator may turn into a Skimmer if the Master of the Ravenwing lends the driver his Jetbike.

Testify wrote:Dark Angels are a more mature Marine codex, I think. Compared to the more "derp everything I have is slightly better than yours derp" BA and SW codexes, Dark Angels have a much more relaxed style/colour scheme.

That's a very polite way to say they have a bad codex. They just haven't gotten their Marines +1 treatment yet.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:@Morathi: Yeah, as far as I can tell they are sculpted pads, as they also seem to have the DA Tactical symbol on the opposite shoulder pad.

Anyway, back on topic, if DA are going to be in the next starter set, then they won't get rid of the codex. They'll probably replace the current one instead. Especially since they have bothered to convert the MotR into finecast and produced the DA vets box plus the Ravenwing.

Aye, this is why most of us are confidant the new book is coming.

Also picked up a box earlier in Ipswich, and yep, moulded Dark Angel symbols and their tactical style icon.

My Deathwing are eager for 6th!

Aye, will be good to have them on the table again. Thought I'd share this for folks, the sprue from the painting box in case they'd not seen it.

If you click on the pic, it'll take you to the Dakka Gallery where you can zoom in to see the symbols much clearer.

But, no robes?

Don't only Veterans get robes? Maybe they'll have vets instead of termies.

Testify wrote:Dark Angels are a more mature Marine codex, I think. Compared to the more "derp everything I have is slightly better than yours derp" BA and SW codexes, Dark Angels have a much more relaxed style/colour scheme.

That and Deathwing Terminators just look badass:



Got to love that bone-coloured colour scheme.

Not even gonna lie those Deathwing Terminators make terminators from other chapters look soft!!!

Testify wrote:Don't only Veterans get robes? Maybe they'll have vets instead of termies.

NO. JUST NO.

One of the main reasons and coolest things about DA is the Deathwing Terminator. As in, it's a major part of the Chapter organization. If you deleted or retconned Terminators, there would be blood.

lets face it, if its DW its just cooler, enjoy

Why the last picture?

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Why the last picture?

I was just thinking the same thing. Perhaps it is a member of the Fallen..?

ShatteredBlade wrote:

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Why the last picture?

I was just thinking the same thing. Perhaps it is a member of the Fallen..?

No, it's treacherous terrain. It's a fallen stronghold!