Fix the Heavy Bolter

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**Anvildude**

mp40guy wrote:The problem with the HB is the problem with the whole Heavy Weapons rules set. You have to move, wait a turn, then fire. This makes them totally useless in the assault. I say the following rules should be added. If they're standing still they're range 36" Heavy 3. if they're moving they're Range 24" Assault 2. Basically the gunner is firing while moving and walking the fire onto the target. It works but at less of a range.
This makes the HB a good choice.

Fixed that for ya. The various "They're, There, Their" forms are important to keep in mind when writing. The way you had it, using "There" instead of "They're" meant that it was easier to read your post as "If the HB is already there, and moving to there, then when it is there it is..." etc, etc. Little confusing.

**Buttons**

mp40guy wrote:The problem with the HB is the problem with the whole Heavy Weapons rules set. You have to move, wait a turn, then fire. This makes them totally useless in the assault. I say the following rules should be added. If moving there standing still there range 36" Heavy 3 if there moving there Range 24" Assault 2. Basically the gunner is firing while moving and walking the fire onto the target. It works but at less of a range.
This makes the HB a good choice.

Who is assaulting with a model armed with a heavy bolter? Also, no, it would make HWS way OP and frankly sounds stupid. As has already been said, make the heavy bolter heavy 4 instead of heavy 3, then you have double the firepower of an autocannon, giving you a good reason to take it.

**mp40guy**

Listen up it is very easy to walk fire onto a target. I trained on how to do it in the Marines and these super soldiers should be able to do it to.

Maybe only give it a rating of rapid fire 2.

**Buttons**

mp40guy wrote:Listen up it is very easy to walk fire onto a target. I trained on how to do it in the Marines and these super soldiers should be able to do it to.

Maybe only give it a rating of rapid fire 2.

A heavy bolter is not a rifle, hell it is bigger than a heavy machinegun (best represented by a heavy stubber). Also, if everyone could do it, it would invalidate most other HW outside of vehicles simply because it offers so much more versatility. Also, fluffwise, marines probably should be relentless, but for balance purposes they can't.

**chrisrawr**

They can, GW just wouldn't be able to sell as many models, as people wouldn't need them for normal points games.

**DogOfWar**

mp40guy wrote:Listen up it is very easy to walk fire onto a target. I trained on how to do it in the Marines and these super soldiers should be able to do it to.

Maybe only give it a rating of rapid fire 2.

Making the HB rapid fire is a decent solution. I like the "extra shot for each 12" closer" method better, but this is simpler. I would do Rapid Fire 3 though.

This being said, the HB is probably most comparable to an M2 in modern weaponry. I don't know who you know who can walk fire a Ma Deuce, but I wouldn't want to meet them in a dark alley.

DoW

**Daemonhammer**

Buttons wrote:
helium42 wrote:The heavy bolter is fine as it is. What really hurts it is the easy access to cover that everything gets. I think cover should be weakened a bit, perhaps instead of the standard 4+ cover save for most terrain, bring it up to 5+. This would go a little way toward making the heavy bolter a viable choice again.

How about volume fire removes or lessens cover. It makes sense, if there is a literal wall of gunfire coming towards you some bushes obscuring their view of you won't keep you from getting hit. Perhaps for every 30 shots a unit puts out it lessens a cover save roll by -1 (meaning that 4+ cover effectively becomes 5+ cover), for every 40 shots a unit puts out it lessens a cover save roll by -2, 50 shots by -3, 60 shots by -4, and 70 shots by -5 (if someone somehow got a 2+ cover save perhaps sitting behind fortifications with the stealth USR). It would allow armies like guard to benefit from cover, let armies that are firing lots of low AP weapons still have a good chance of killing soft targets like Guard or Orks. A blob of Guard infantry could easily put down enough fire to ignore cover saves, but shot of killing other Guard it won't help much because everyone still gets an armour save.

That would give an obvious advantage to armies like Orks and IG who get tonnes of shooting.

**LunaHound**

Heavy Bolter. Str 5 AP4 Heavy 3 or Assault 2.

Heavy fire mode includes Suppression Special Rule.

Enemy Infantry units that suffers wound gets minus 1 inch to their movement and charging distance.

**Surtur**

The idea of adding pinning to the heavy bolter has always appealed to me as a form of suppression weapon.

**Lightning Shadows**

The supressive fire is a great idea- +1 shot for every 12" the target is from its maximum range, 3 at 36", 4 at 24", 5 at 12"- maybe 6 at 6" or close? It isnt hard to miss from that close!!!

Also, make it Pinning at the very least- maybe even ignores cover?