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It varies. Just like in real life military, conscription, you can do it French Foreign Army-style, you can be condemned to military service for your sins (not necessary a Penal legion as many gangers becomes ad-hoc IG-regiments) and the list goes on.

Depends on the world.

All (or almost all) cadians are drafted into their army....because they are busy blocking the entrance of the Eye of Terror

The majority of the population of Kreig are drafted, as they are being grown for just that purpose

On Vostroya the first son of every family must join the Regiment

Elysians are all volunteers who have surfed a tour of duty in the Elysian PDF.

Etc.

Elysians are pretty cool. I like that they volunteer

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Elysian_Drop_Troops

Lots of good info. Elysians are really the closest in structure and operations to a modern professional military.

Lightcavalier wrote:Depends on the world.

All (or almost all) cadians are drafted into their army....because they are busy blocking the entrance of the Eye of Terror

Wrong. They actively volunteer. To get a spot in a Shock Troop Regiment is a big honor to the Cadians. The training that the Youth Armies undergo is described in "Malleus", with Eisenhorn noting constant lasfire and artillery shots in the wilderness where the Youth Armies are engaged in active combat against one another.

They do not feth around when it comes to training. If the ammunition isn't live, it's not a Cadian training regime.

The majority of the population of Kreig are drafted, as they are being grown for just that purpose

Wrong. They are not "being grown for just that purpose". That is speculative on the part of the fanbase. They're not like the Grand Army of the Republic, with clones being grown en masse to go into combat.

Much like the Cadians, the Krieg fight each other for the chance to be actually recruited.

On Vostroya the first son of every family must join the Regiment

No, they must join a regiment. Vostroya does not have one single regiment.
Their regiments are referred to as "Vostroyan Firstborns" for a reason.

Elysians are all volunteers who have surfed a tour of duty in the Elysian PDF.

What does surfing have to do with anything?

Oh. Serving.
Anyways, the Drop Troop regiments are on the basis of "all volunteers". They likely have actual, standard Guard regiments as well where the majority of Elysians will serve.
I should also add that the Elysians do not "serve a tour of duty in the Elysian PDF". They serve a tour of duty on board of Imperial Navy vessels or Rogue Traders who operate in-system to act as marines/ship security due to the propensity of Ork and traitor pirates in the Elysian system.



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Brother Thomas wrote:Ah i get it. Commisars are just attachments and there are actual officers who are part of the plt

Yep. A regiment has its own command structure, and Commissars are outside of that. Commissars are almost always not going to be of the homeworld of the regiment they're assigned to, hailing instead from a Schola Progenium. The Schola Progenium is a system of schools/orphanages run across the Imperium where they train Commissars, Stormtroopers, and the Sisters of Battle.

How does recruitment go for IG, do they have to serve for life, can they volunteer, or do they serve for a alloted time contract?

All except for the last one.

If you join the Guard: you serve for life, unless your regiment does something particularly heroic or is almost wiped out.
If you do the first one: you might just win settlement rights to the world you were fighting on.
If you do the second one: you might be mustered out due to horrific injuries and moved to a rear area to serve as training advisers.

Beaviz81 wrote:I guess the Cadians sort of are based on the modern military of Canada, and not all of them are people eating demons for breakfast.

You mean the Cadians just take time off while they rely on their neighbor planets to protect them?

As for Black Library about regular guardsmen, I'd suggest 15 Hours. No crazy ice/desert/jungle planet regiments. Just plain men, pushed through training, and dumped into a warzone.

Can people please stop bringing up the Cadian-Canadians? This is why I thought so much http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Canadian_Forces_Browning_Hi-Power.jpg

Kanluwen wrote:Wrong. They actively volunteer. To get a spot in a Shock Troop Regiment is a big honor to the Cadians. The training that the Youth Armies undergo is described in "Malleus", with Eisenhorn noting constant lasfire and artillery shots in the wilderness where the Youth Armies are engaged in active combat against one another.

They do not feth around when it comes to training. If the ammunition isn't live, it's not a Cadian training regime.

No, they are all drafted, it may be considered an honour to fight, but whether you want to or not, you are fighting. Granted there is a good chance that you will end up in the interior guard (IIRC joining the interior guard is based purely on chance, rather than taking the left overs), but you still are forced to fight for the Imperium.

Wrong. They are not "being grown for just that purpose". That is speculative on the part of the fanbase. They're not like the Grand Army of the Republic, with clones being grown en masse to go into combat.

Much like the Cadians, the Krieg fight each other for the chance to be actually recruited.

IIRC it is outright stated somewhere that Krieg relies on cloning. Now, I wouldn't go so far to say that most or even a large portion of their forces are cloned, but Krieg does do cloning to an extent. It allows them to field more regiments than they would normally be capable of.

Oh I seem to have read soldiers can serve for allotted time. That's usually at least one decade. But combat-attrittion can make a regiment retire before it should. As the normal activation period of an unreinforced regiment is 10-20 years before they gets too old to fight.

Buttons wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Wrong. They actively volunteer. To get a spot in a Shock Troop Regiment is a big honor to the Cadians. The training that the Youth Armies undergo is described in "Malleus", with Eisenhorn noting constant lasfire and artillery shots in the wilderness where the Youth Armies are engaged in active combat against one another.

They do not feth around when it comes to training. If the ammunition isn't live, it's not a Cadian training regime.

No, they are all drafted, it may be considered an honour to fight, but whether you want to or not, you are fighting. Granted there is a good chance that you will end up in the interior guard (IIRC joining the interior guard is based purely on chance, rather than taking the left overs), but you still are forced to fight for the Imperium.

It's not a "draft" if you join before you are to be considered for drafting.

It's incorrect to say that they're "draftees" when in fact they're an all-volunteer force.
I'm just sayin' here. It's a terminology issue certainly, and a bit of nitpicking but it is a difference.
"Draftee" armies tend to have a stigma of being low on morale, training, etc. "Volunteer" forces tend to give the mental imagery of one which is a highly skilled force, dedicated to their training and trade.

Wrong. They are not "being grown for just that purpose". That is speculative on the part of the fanbase. They're not like the Grand Army of the Republic, with clones being grown en masse to go into combat.

Much like the Cadians, the Krieg fight each other for the chance to be actually recruited.

IIRC it is outright stated somewhere that Krieg relies on cloning. Now, I wouldn't go so far to say that most or even a large portion of their forces are cloned, but Krieg does do cloning to an extent. It allows them to field more regiments than they would normally be capable of.

It is not outright stated that they "rely on cloning" to field their regiments, anywhere, except in fan fiction and speculation. Most of this comes from the Vitae-Womb mention and the fact that most of the Death Korps do not have actual names, but rather service numbers.

The problem is that we have one particular thing in the fluff which will alter whether or not they do rely on cloning or just simple genetic manipulation.
The Vitae-Wombs.
What little we know about them suggests that they are the women of Krieg...altered in some way and kept alive to serve as birthing factories for the next generations of troops.

It Cadian Karshkin. Not Storm Troopers. Storm Troopers are great, Karshkin is marginally better. They are the third best fighters in the IOM.

"Kasrkin".

And quite frankly, Kasrkin are hard enough to give pause to Eisenhorn-- a man who faced down a traitor Astartes. "Third best fighter in the Imperium" is incorrect, as they're said to be a step under the Astartes.

No the Sisters of Battle is second.

Says who? Sisters fans?

No. They're capable combatants, certainly, but they're not Kasrkin capable.

Power Armor does not make one "better". Training does. Kasrkin are the cream of a crop of Guard which are actively recognized by the Astartes as being the "finest soldiery of the Imperium".

By all cause, the Sisters of Battle has almost supernatural power due to their faith. They are almost as tough as a Space Marine, likely with the attrition similar to the Grey Knights. Their shield of faith will usually best a Kasrkin. Fine fighters, but not like the Sisters of Battle.

Okay, so now you're relying upon an example of some "supernatural power" to put Sisters above a group of individuals who, per an example we have of them from "Malleus" took a freaking combat knife to a Daemonhost.

I'll let you think about that some more.

I know about the scene, I just think the SOB are superior to them.

The Kasrkin are as good as a human being can hope to be in combat unaugmented. The Sisters of Battle have their tremendous faith to the Emperor guiding them in battle and would easily do the same with their combat-knives against a daemon-host if it was them there and not the Kasrkin. One on one a Sister of Battle beat a Kasrkin.

So again:

You're not basing it off any real actual evidence. You're just basing it off your opinion.

Never mind that Kasrkin have a reputation across the galaxy as being the hardest troops the Imperium fields outside of the Astartes.
Never mind that they are given genetic enhancements and various minor augmentations.

Clearly, power armor and some bizarre manifestation of "faith"(which clearly doesn't help them as much as you think it does, considering how often they're slaughtered--even in their own Convents) are better than natural skill, training, and discipline.

How many people do you think can kill a Hive Tyrant in single combat without a blank around? http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Praxedes#.T5wuwtnLnBE she can, that's canon. That's like charging the demonhost and killing it.

Beaviz81 wrote:How many people do you think can kill a Hive Tyrant in single combat without a blank around?

Quite a few members of the Astartes and Inquisition?
"Blanks around" isn't a common circumstance by the way, certainly not to the point where it makes this woman doing this anything special. It's not anything commonly used to fight the Tyranids either. So...that point is moot.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Praxedes#.T5wuwtnLnBE she can, that's canon.

That's from 2nd edition. It says it is also in WD #379, but the link is in red which usually means "unverified".

That's like charging the demonhost and killing it.

No, it's really not. It's like a powered armored human fighting a Hive Tyrant in close combat, then dying shortly after(note: it says she's known as the "first martyr to Kraken").

There is a huge difference between a highly trained and skilled fighter wearing carapace armor charging a supernaturally strong foe with a combat knife and a trained and skilled fighter wearing powered armor, a refractor field equivalent, and power weapons charging a Hive Tyrant.

Also:
Please remember, there is a fluff reason that the Swarmlord has been 'created' by the Hive Mind.

Hive Tyrants are nowhere near as effective in combat as you think they are.

The look at the stats, the Sorortias have 4 in toughness, same as the Space Marines. Anyway, the difference is less than the difference between a Sororita and a Space Marine as I think the Karskin hands down are the finest human fighters without any augmentation. Also the Sisters of Battle are extremely skilled, they are the cream of thousands of Schola Progeniums, sent to two convents. There even more is flushed out, so only a few thousands of several millions are made to serve there. The attrition-rate is atrocious.

The second I thought was to make Calgar scream "Screeed!"

Kasrkin have augmentations...

Kanluwen wrote:

Lightcavalier wrote:The majority of the population of Kreig are drafted, as they are being grown for just that purpose

Wrong. They are not "being grown for just that purpose". That is speculative on the part of the fanbase. They're not like the Grand Army of the Republic, with clones being grown en masse to go into combat.

Actually it's not speculation. From Siege of Vraks Part I, page 87, 5th paragraph;

Siege of Vraks wrote:"The maximum tithe levels were enforced, Krieg's sole purpose was to turn out Death Korps soldiers as another world might mine ore or sow wheat. By the direct order of the Lords of Terra nothing was to be allowed to interfere with this purpose. This has resulted in suspect practices being tolerated - some, such as the eugenic policies designed to weed out mutants caused by Krieg's damaged biosphere, universal conscription, etc, are continuations of Krieg's centuries of civil war. But others such as the enforced use of 'Vitae-Womb' birthing techniques are little known outside of the Adeptus Biologis and are seen as dangerous and abhorrent by many Adeptus Mechanicus Biologis."

That is all taken, word perfect, from Siege of Vraks, Part I. I bolded a relevant part, the universal conscription.

If Krieg was not purposefully 'growing' Korpsmen, why would they be allowed to use the banned 'Vitae-womb' birthing technique? Why would they have an edict from the Lords of Terra making sure nothing interefered with their production of Guardsmen? I shall go on to quote this as well;

Siege of Vraks wrote:As Krieg stands today it is a true war-world, its tithes are the maximum possible for the planet's population, raising tens of regiments every year where a comparable sized world might be expected to tithe one regiment every decade. The rate of attrition and destruction among these regiments is likewise disproportionately high, as they are assigned to some of the most hazardous battlefields and dangerous worlds known to Man.

Beaviz81 wrote:The look at the stats, the Sorortias have 4 in toughness, same as the Space Marines.

That's not because of any kind of "enhancements". It's because of powered armor.

No. I'm not joking. T4 is 'standard' for powered armor armies.
Also, I consider it bad form to use the tabletop statistics of something to justify an argument in the background forums. The tabletop is extremely restrictive, with stats being confined to the idea of a scale of 1-10.

Anyway, the difference is less than the difference between a Sororita and a Space Marine

False. There's far, far, far more differences between a Sororita and an Astartes than you think.

as I think the Karskin hands down are the finest human fighters without any augmentation.

So they're above the Sororitas. The Sororitas do not have any augmentation. They just have powered armor.
Without that armor, they're just a normal human.

Also the Sisters of Battle are extremely skilled, they are the cream of thousands of Schola Progeniums, sent to two convents.
There even more is flushed out, so only a few thousands of several millions are made to serve there. The attrition-rate is atrocious.

They can be as skilled as you want them to be, it does not change the fact that they are heavily reliant upon their powered armor to be effective.

I guess we shall just agree to disagree then, as we obviously won't agree and I really hate bickering.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Lightcavalier wrote:The majority of the population of Kreig are drafted, as they are being grown for just that purpose

Wrong. They are not "being grown for just that purpose". That is speculative on the part of the fanbase. They're not like the Grand Army of the Republic, with clones being grown en masse to go into combat.

Actually it's not speculation. From Siege of Vraks Part I, page 87, 5th paragraph;

Siege of Vraks wrote:"The maximum tithe levels were enforced, Krieg's sole purpose was to turn out Death Korps soldiers as another world might mine ore or sow wheat. By the direct order of the Lords of Terra nothing was to be allowed to interfere with this purpose. This has resulted in suspect practices being tolerated - some, such as the eugenic policies designed to weed out mutants caused by Krieg's damaged biosphere, universal conscription, etc, are continuations of Krieg's centuries of civil war. But others such as the enforced use of 'Vitae-Womb' birthing techniques are little known outside of the Adeptus Biologis and are seen as dangerous and abhorrent by many Adeptus Mechanicus Biologis."

That is all taken, word perfect, from Siege of Vraks, Part I. I bolded a relevant part, the universal conscription.

If Krieg was not purposefully 'growing' Korpsmen, why would they be allowed to use the banned 'Vitae-womb' birthing technique? Why would they have an edict from the Lords of Terra making sure nothing interefered with their production of Guardsmen? I shall go on to quote this as well;

Siege of Vraks wrote:As Krieg stands today it is a true war-world, its tithes are the maximum possible for the planet's population, raising tens of regiments every year where a comparable sized world might be expected to tithe one regiment every decade. The rate of attrition and destruction among these regiments is likewise disproportionately high, as they are assigned to some of the most hazardous battlefields and dangerous worlds known to Man.

Thank you for proving my point. It's fan speculation at this point that the vitae-womb is a "cloning" method.

Now, since you clearly did not actually read my post...

I said he is wrong because of the idea of the Krieg troops being "grown simply for that purpose", as that implies that they are being cloned.

We don't know what a vitae-womb is. We don't know what it does, nor how it does what it does.

It could be some kind of bizarre artificial womb or it could be something like the Axlotl Tanks(functionally brain-dead women, kept on life support and used as birthing "factories".) that the Tleilaxu utilized in Frank Herbert's "Dune" novels.

Beaviz81 wrote:It Cadian Karshkin. Not Storm Troopers. Storm Troopers are great, Karshkin is marginally better. They are the third best fighters in the IOM.

bs. Do you have a source that flat out states "Kasrkin are better than storm troopers"? Kasrkin are just Cadian Storm Troopers, nothing more, nothing less. Also, did Eisenhorn ever see generic storm troopers? Yes, one should be intimidated by Kasrkin, but one should also be intimidated by regular storm troopers since they are the same thing. It is like comparing an Ultramarine to a Blood Angel, neither is inherently superior to the other.

Kanluwen wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Wrong. They actively volunteer. To get a spot in a Shock Troop Regiment is a big honor to the Cadians. The training that the Youth Armies undergo is described in "Malleus", with Eisenhorn noting constant lasfire and artillery shots in the wilderness where the Youth Armies are engaged in active combat against one another.

They do not feth around when it comes to training. If the ammunition isn't live, it's not a Cadian training regime.

No, they are all drafted, it may be considered an honour to fight, but whether you want to or not, you are fighting. Granted there is a good chance that you will end up in the interior guard (IIRC joining the interior guard is based purely on chance, rather than taking the left overs), but you still are forced to fight for the Imperium.

It's not a "draft" if you join before you are to be considered for drafting.

It's incorrect to say that they're "draftees" when in fact they're an all-volunteer force.
I'm just sayin' here. It's a terminology issue certainly, and a bit of nitpicking but it is a difference.
"Draftee" armies tend to have a stigma of being low on morale, training, etc. "Volunteer" forces tend to give the mental imagery of one which is a highly skilled force, dedicated to their training and trade.

Except they are drafted, if you were a Cadian and they told you you are going to be sent away to fight in the Imperial Guard you have to go. If you refuse they would probably just shoot you. A darfted army means one doesn't get a choice, and Cadians do not get a choice, they might go to the Interior Guard if you are lucky, or be a Kasrkin if you are good, but you cannot decide to not fight.

It's quoted to be as good if not better, so I wrote marginally.

Beaviz81 wrote:It's quoted to be as good if not better, so I wrote marginally.

Except "comparable if not better" is really vague. It is like saying "about 50% or more." It could be 45% it could be 50%, it could be 80%.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Brother Thomas wrote:I like the sound of cadians. If i was a man in the warhammer 40k i would bond my IG platoon into a brotherhood thru leadership. They would not be fanatical martyrs. They would be men of attrition, fighting for the emperor but also survivng for the emperor. After all dead men dont figt. So basically what im saying is my men wouldnt fix bayonets and charge a chaos space marine devastator, lol


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-Loki- wrote:I think what the OP is looking for are the Elysian drop troops. They're probably the closest you'll find to comparing to modern military. They're formed into large regiments and also smaller specialised units, and deploy using Valkyries (in the way modern troops can be inserted into a hot zone via helicopter), the Elysian Airborn Assault Carrier and by grav chute.

They don't have their own heavy armour, but do use Sentinels and heavily armed 'buggies'. They are a rapid response force, and in general trained to a higher degree than most regiments with regards to actually hitting what they shoot at.

Sounds great. But ... are there fanatical commisars running around blowing troopers heads off for minor slip ups?

To my knowledge, the only popular regiment that doesn't really use commissars too heavily are the Catachans, most get fragged by the men, when they are used. IIRC, Gaunt is the only Commissar amongst the Tanith First.

If I remember right, Catachans only frag ones that are psychotic and wave their sword around, and start executing people.

Cain got along with them, if I remember right.