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Gaunt's Ghosts are...normal. Some of them are bastards who will break the rules whenever they can for personal profit.
Some are quiet and decent. Most are somewhere in between.
They're also the most popular and (imo) best written guard novels.

The ethnic Tanith basically have stealth and path finding superpowers but the Verghast and Belladon are quite normal.

jareddm wrote:The book you're looking for, when it comes to normal Imperial Guard, is called Fifteen Hours.

Yes, this is the book you are looking for!
I really enjoyed it (as you can probably tell) because it's about some ordinary 16 year old kid plucked from an ordinary family on an agricultural world who is then mistakenly thrown onto a planet where Imperial forces have been fighting a 20 year trench war against Orks. Seeing the horrors, insanity and general hopelessness of the 40k universe through the eyes of this simple farm boy made it a gripping story in my opinion.

Speaking of the old jokes, I've always heard it as:

Cadia = Canadians

Catachans = Americans

Mordians = British

Valhalla = Russia

and a few even more stereotypical examples.

(Cadians = Canadians due to the whole shock troop reputation they got from WW1, where, Canadians would win and take territories from the Germans where more established armies like Britain and France would fail.)

And yet there's so many others that have fallen by the wayside in older editions. So much potential.

Like the Aztec-like warriors of Patria

or the Bushmen of Serica

or the overly-muscled, blonde-haired men of Kallisti.

jareddm wrote:And yet there's so many others that have fallen by the wayside in older editions. So much potential.

Like the Aztec-like warriors of Patria

or the Bushmen of Serica

or the overly-muscled, blonde-haired men of Kallisti.

Not sure if there is any writing on them, but there was a cool looking regiment in one of the old codexes called the Fornus Lix 'Fire Drakes'. Looked sort of like Cadians with gas masks. Used them as an idea for my army since the gas mask wasn't too hard to make and they looked cool.

I think what the OP is looking for are the Elysian drop troops. They're probably the closest you'll find to comparing to modern military. They're formed into large regiments and also smaller specialised units, and deploy using Valkyries (in the way modern troops can be inserted into a hot zone via helicopter), the Elysian Airborn Assault Carrier and by grav chute.

They don't have their own heavy armour, but do use Sentinels and heavily armed 'buggies'. They are a rapid response force, and in general trained to a higher degree than most regiments with regards to actually hitting what they shoot at.

There isn't really any such thing as 'normal' in the 40k universe. Most individual Guard grunts are just regular guys out to defend their homes, though; one of the more interesting portrayals of that I've seen are the two PDF troopers from the Dark Heresy books that get roped into Inquisitorial schemes.

These are people from different planets the regiments will differ, hell regiments from one planet will differ. That is what makes IG the not only the most numerous but also the most diverse and adaptable professional military force in the galaxy. They have a response to every kind of war zone out there.
Jungle Warfare - Catachans, Drop Troops and raiding - Elyzian and Harakoni, Dessert and hit and run tactic - Tallarn, Arctic Warfare - Valhalla, Urban - Necromunda and Vostroya, Siege - DKoK, Attrition (though in its entirety IG is on its own the best at this kind of war) Armageddon, and so on and so on but the standard for war gear, tactics, discipline is set by the Cadians, they are I guess what you could consider if not "normal" than at least a jack of all trades and master of neither, as they aren't specialized in any kind of warfare (they are how ever the best at fighting Chaos) but are prepared and participate in all kinds.

I like the sound of cadians. If i was a man in the warhammer 40k i would bond my IG platoon into a brotherhood thru leadership. They would not be fanatical martyrs. They would be men of attrition, fighting for the emperor but also survivng for the emperor. After all dead men dont figt. So basically what im saying is my men wouldnt fix bayonets and charge a chaos space marine devastator, lol


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-Loki- wrote:I think what the OP is looking for are the Elysian drop troops. They're probably the closest you'll find to comparing to modern military. They're formed into large regiments and also smaller specialised units, and deploy using Valkyries (in the way modern troops can be inserted into a hot zone via helicopter), the Elysian Airborn Assault Carrier and by grav chute.

They don't have their own heavy armour, but do use Sentinels and heavily armed 'buggies'. They are a rapid response force, and in general trained to a higher degree than most regiments with regards to actually hitting what they shoot at.

Sounds great. But ... are there fanatical commisars running around blowing troopers heads off for minor slip ups?

Probably.

But they were probably killed to a man.

FifteenHours wrote:

jareddm wrote:The book you're looking for, when it comes to normal Imperial Guard, is called Fifteen Hours.

Yes, this is the book you are looking for!
I really enjoyed it (as you can probably tell) because it's about some ordinary 16 year old kid plucked from an ordinary family on an agricultural world who is then mistakenly thrown onto a planet where Imperial forces have been fighting a 20 year trench war against Orks. Seeing the horrors, insanity and general hopelessness of the 40k universe through the eyes of this simple farm boy made it a gripping story in my opinion.

I was on the base library the other day and i started reading a little bit of it, how interesting. That must be fate. I definetely need to read this.

Beaviz81 wrote:I guess the Cadians sort of are based on the modern military of Canada, and not all of them are people eating demons for breakfast.

We have an army up here?

Brother Thomas wrote:

FifteenHours wrote:

jareddm wrote:The book you're looking for, when it comes to normal Imperial Guard, is called Fifteen Hours.

Yes, this is the book you are looking for!
I really enjoyed it (as you can probably tell) because it's about some ordinary 16 year old kid plucked from an ordinary family on an agricultural world who is then mistakenly thrown onto a planet where Imperial forces have been fighting a 20 year trench war against Orks. Seeing the horrors, insanity and general hopelessness of the 40k universe through the eyes of this simple farm boy made it a gripping story in my opinion.

I was on the base library the other day and i started reading a little bit of it, how interesting. That must be fate. I definetely need to read this.

It is a good book, but please do not make the common misconception.

"Fifteen Hours" is not the life expectancy of Guardsmen in most--if not all warzones. It was for that specific warzone, and explicitly for the troops who get sent in to "reinforce" the forces already groundside.

Brother Thomas wrote:I like the sound of cadians. If i was a man in the warhammer 40k i would bond my IG platoon into a brotherhood thru leadership. They would not be fanatical martyrs. They would be men of attrition, fighting for the emperor but also survivng for the emperor. After all dead men dont figt. So basically what im saying is my men wouldnt fix bayonets and charge a chaos space marine devastator, lol


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-Loki- wrote:I think what the OP is looking for are the Elysian drop troops. They're probably the closest you'll find to comparing to modern military. They're formed into large regiments and also smaller specialised units, and deploy using Valkyries (in the way modern troops can be inserted into a hot zone via helicopter), the Elysian Airborn Assault Carrier and by grav chute.

They don't have their own heavy armour, but do use Sentinels and heavily armed 'buggies'. They are a rapid response force, and in general trained to a higher degree than most regiments with regards to actually hitting what they shoot at.

Sounds great. But ... are there fanatical commisars running around blowing troopers heads off for minor slip ups?

To my knowledge, the only popular regiment that doesn't really use commissars too heavily are the Catachans, most get fragged by the men, when they are used. IIRC, Gaunt is the only Commissar amongst the Tanith First.

Cadians do not use Commissars, actually.

Their commissioned officers, per "Cadian Blood", are described as having the option to undergo training to serve as "morale officers". It's implied in both "Cadian Blood" and the far, far earlier "Codex: Eye of Terror" that to be assigned a Commissar is a pretty big insult to a Cadian regiment.

No Gaunt is not. Ludd and Hark are there as well, so are several others. Heck one is even fragged (none of the three named of course).

Beaviz81 wrote:No Gaunt is not. Ludd and Hark are there as well, so are several others. Heck one is even fragged (none of the three named of course).

Sorry, I haven't gotten past book 3 yet, only started a short while ago.

Wow very interesting. Its shameful to be a commisar. But as you all know i am an infatntryman in the marines and i know how the chain of command works. To the cadians not have a chain of command: team leader, squad leader, platoon sergeant, and the platoon commander (commisar)?

Brother Thomas wrote:Wow very interesting. Its shameful to be a commissar.

I wouldn't say that. But I'll explain more in a minute.

But as you all know i am an infatntryman in the marines and i know how the chain of command works. To the cadians not have a chain of command: team leader, squad leader, platoon sergeant, and the platoon commander (commisar)?

Commissars != Platoon Commanders.

Commissars in actual command positions are rare; Gaunt is implied to be a very very very rare example of this.

As to the explanation, what you have to consider is this.
Cadia is a world which has--effectively--been under siege since the end of the Horus Heresy. It is the first world that gets hit whenever the traitor filth comes pouring out of the Eye of Terror with a veritable tide of the lost and the damned rolling out with them in the form of tides of mutants, heretics, and traitors.

Since the end of the Horus Heresy though, how many times do you think Cadia has actually fallen to the point where it was no longer really possible to say that it was in Imperial control?
The answer is once(Look up the aftermath of the "13th Black Crusade" event).
Cadia did not have commissars at the start. They don't need them; the world is unswervingly Imperial. To even imply that the Cadian Shock Troops require someone to "watch them" is an insult beyond the pale. They handle their business themselves. They root traitors out amongst their forces themselves, they root out heretics amongst their forces themselves, and deal with them accordingly.
Hell, Cadia's military even has a permanent seconding of Inquisitors enmeshed within their forces--with the Inquisitors being Cadians themselves.

There is one IG book about normal guardsmen, It's called 15 hours or something. Just about some guy who accidently gets rerouted to a war torn planet and how he surivves. Very good read, I highly recommend it.

nkon117 wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:I guess the Cadians sort of are based on the modern military of Canada, and not all of them are people eating demons for breakfast.

We have an army up here?

Really? Really? 11 Years in Afghanistan with no Army....but I digress.

I get that its an insult to have someone watch over them because commisars are not equivlent to a platoon commander. Very interesting. I figured they would have them to come up with tactical planning and battle orders. So they would be organized and have someone to do administrative work for them. Perhaps i am overthinking this

Commissars are responsible for the discipline and that the officers are competent, so they must be excellent raters of skill and potential in order to do their job properly as it fall on their feet if soldiers break rank and flee due to inadequate leadership. There the political side of them comes into play, as I think they often do the recommendations for promotions and demotions (I'm now assuming not all of them are psychotic 24/7) when they see fit, and the officers under their command would likely follow that recommendation unless they have a very good reason to say nay.

Lightcavalier wrote:

nkon117 wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:I guess the Cadians sort of are based on the modern military of Canada, and not all of them are people eating demons for breakfast.

We have an army up here?

Really? Really? 11 Years in Afghanistan with no Army....but I digress.

Come on guys lets keep it warhammer specific. And yes the canadian army has been fighting in afghan...

Brother Thomas wrote:I get that its an insult to have someone watch over them because commisars are not equivlent to a platoon commander. Very interesting. I figured they would have them to come up with tactical planning and battle orders. So they would be organized and have someone to do administrative work for them. Perhaps i am overthinking this

Commissars are present to maintain discipline.
They technically are separate from the chain of command and they technically have the authority to execute almost anyone they deem fit.
Of course if they start shooting high level officers or officers for no reason they will be executed as well...

Too funny. The guys in my platoon used to joke around about our higher ups executing us "pawns"

Brother Thomas wrote:I get that its an insult to have someone watch over them because commisars are not equivalent to a platoon commander. Very interesting.

Well no. It's the implication that Cadians "can't be trusted". It would be like if you had to have a member of Human Rights Watch with you on every patrol to ensure you're not calling down airstrikes on houses because they're in the way of your patrol route.

The fact that Commissars don't have a command rank has nothing to do with it. Cadians are raised to be loyal to the Imperium, no matter what. They've seen what happens when you break faith with the Imperium. They've fought hideous mutants and traitors who've given themselves over to the Xenos or Chaos. They know what lies that way. They don't need some pretentious offworlder standing behind them, yelling at them to move forward and waving a sword around like a loon. Especially not when they've got a nice, defensible position.

I figured they would have them to come up with tactical planning and battle orders.So they would be organized and have someone to do administrative work for them.

The officers and their aides come up with the strategic portions, the commissars might or might not have input. It depends on the Commissar in question as to whether or not they get involved.

Brother Thomas wrote:

Lightcavalier wrote:

nkon117 wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:I guess the Cadians sort of are based on the modern military of Canada, and not all of them are people eating demons for breakfast.

We have an army up here?

Really? Really? 11 Years in Afghanistan with no Army....but I digress.

Come on guys lets keep it warhammer specific. And yes the canadian army has been fighting in afghan...

Sorry about that....but as an officer in the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps I was mildly offended.

Back on topic...

The broad strokes of the Imperial Guard are formatted like the Russians of the interwar/2nd world war period.

The Chain of command still went Section, Platoon, Coy, on up....but at any level the the Party representatives had the authority to keep the soldiers (of any rank) in line with Party goals and directives.
As well, in their system, being at a tactical and often technical disadvantage the concept of mission command was nonexistent...units would achiver their objective regardless of cost.


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The Eastern Front of WW2 was often refered to as a 4 way war between
1. the Wermacht and the Red Army
2. The Red army and the Commisserat
3. German High Command and the Wermacht
4. The Commiserate and German High Command


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Its not that Commisars outrank their soldiering counterparts, its that they are "CoEqual" in rank to them. Just with the authority of the Governement and higher commisars behind them instead of High Command.

Ah i get it. Commisars are just attachments and there are actual officers who are part of the plt


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How does recruitment go for IG, do they have to serve for life, can they volunteer, or do they serve for a alloted time contract?