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I agree that the troopers are a little too cheap as they are right now. Probable, lower stats or make them more expensive.

I would also like to say that I shake hands on the Jedi discussion and thanks to Kain for the very balanced debate, you made very valid points. Specifically about the amount of Bloodletters to number of Jedi. I might change my bet if I was given a glance at the number difference.

And I had this image of Yoda quickly leaping around Ghaz's shots, his first swing, over his head, and stabbing his lightsaber into Ghaz's skull, but jsut as he did it, Ghaz let out a large WAAAAGH!!! calling on his inner Psyker (we all know it's there.) and glowing that Mork and Ork like energy, the light saber stopping at his Adamantium Skull, unable to penetrate the Prophet ofthe Waaaghh!'s aura of War. Ghaz swinging his claw around and Yoda leaping off looking up staring at the now furious Ghaz and Yoda says, "Flee now we should, this fight, win we cannot."
Obi-Wan peers over and says, "Well, I guess you'll have to wait."

I think certain powers could be given as upgrades to characters so the owning player can create their own Jedi and give them a nameand you know, have fun with it.
Even allot a few select races for different point costs to make for a really good modeling boost.

Major powers however, where a Jedi has to really concentrate, should be psychic powers so that the enemies anti-psykers can have a chance to stop them and so it represents their struggle to control their desire for more power. (But mostly just for game balance.)

I would gather more powerful things would be for Special Characters only, but maybe someone creating their own HQ Jedi, could choose a maximum of one from an expensive list of those powers. (Talking like 50+ points kind of psychic powers. I.E. Battle Meditation, Tank lift, Crush, Force Wave, Force Shield.)

As far as Elite and fast attack are concerned, you can use not just troopers, but some of the other races involved in the Republic. It would be interesting.

Runna wrote:
I would also like to say that I shake hands on the Jedi discussion and thanks to Buttons for the very balanced debate, you made very valid points. Specifically about the amount of Bloodletters to number of Jedi. I might change my bet if I was given a glance at the number difference.

I didn't do much regarding the jedi, and definitely wasn't the one to bring up bloodletters. I was more on the basic clone trooper debate.

Sorry, I meant to say Kain, I just read your post last before I wrote mine, ha ha ha.... sorry, if only I had caught the mistake before my internet dropped and I got quoted on it...eh...one more time

Kain wrote:Make Captain Fordo and the Muunilist 10 from the Clone wars miniseries. Those guys were badass.

^This, they faced down Grievous (badass Grievous that killed half a dozen jedi in a single fight, saving two or three of the jedi during that battle), fought that nearly invincible bounty hunter, and cut through swathes of droids, that isn't even bringing up Fordo battling hordes of droids in hand to hand at Coursant (sp?).

Any ideas for jedi point costs (see first page for rules)

Well I would suggest the following

Jedi Master: 150 Points
Jedi Knight: 100 Points
Padawan: 50 Points

Force speed should give them a running speed boost like they roll 1 extra die when it comes to running and difficult terrain. I 10 is game breaking for 5 points.

Force Disarm doesn't have a price I would suggest 20-30 points.

Protection bubble shouldn't let them move or something.

Clone Troopers: Drop their WS to 2 or I to 3 since at the moment they would pretty easily beat a basic guard squad in hand to hand despite being turrible in hand to hand. Also make DC blaster AP 5 or 6 and make it rapid fire. At the moment it has the second longest range of a basic infantry gun, and the best AP (no one else gets AP 4 for basic infantry).

Buttons wrote:Well I would suggest the following

Jedi Master: 150 Points
Jedi Knight: 100 Points
Padawan: 50 Points

Force speed should give them a running speed boost like they roll 1 extra die when it comes to running and difficult terrain. I 10 is game breaking for 5 points.

Force Disarm doesn't have a price I would suggest 20-30 points.

Protection bubble shouldn't let them move or something.

Clone Troopers: Drop their WS to 2 or I to 3 since at the moment they would pretty easily beat a basic guard squad in hand to hand despite being turrible in hand to hand. Also make DC blaster AP 5 or 6 and make it rapid fire. At the moment it has the second longest range of a basic infantry gun, and the best AP (no one else gets AP 4 for basic infantry).

100pts for a one wound model? i was thinking a little cheaper than a paladin (like 50pts). Also, updated the blasters to AP 6, S 4, but kept the range the same, as they are able to fire 8km or so fluffwise. Also, force powers are meant to be able to be taken by a single model, as the knight squads are up to three, so an increased initiative sounds better.

DAWARBOSS wrote:

Buttons wrote:Well I would suggest the following

Jedi Master: 150 Points
Jedi Knight: 100 Points
Padawan: 50 Points

Force speed should give them a running speed boost like they roll 1 extra die when it comes to running and difficult terrain. I 10 is game breaking for 5 points.

Force Disarm doesn't have a price I would suggest 20-30 points.

Protection bubble shouldn't let them move or something.

Clone Troopers: Drop their WS to 2 or I to 3 since at the moment they would pretty easily beat a basic guard squad in hand to hand despite being turrible in hand to hand. Also make DC blaster AP 5 or 6 and make it rapid fire. At the moment it has the second longest range of a basic infantry gun, and the best AP (no one else gets AP 4 for basic infantry).

100pts for a one wound model? i was thinking a little cheaper than a paladin (like 50pts). Also, updated the blasters to AP 6, S 4, but kept the range the same, as they are able to fire 8km or so fluffwise. Also, force powers are meant to be able to be taken by a single model, as the knight squads are up to three, so an increased initiative sounds better.

They are one wound? I didn't look at that and assumed that they would be multi-wound (should have assumed that padawans would be one wound without looking however). Regardless they should be expensive, disregard my price unless you plan to give them 3 wounds a pop. I mean they have a power weapon, high initiative, high WS, and a low invul save. Plus they are all psykers.

They are like chaplains with no ID and insane hand to hand stats. Also, for the force powers, changing the initiative is fine, but I 10 is too much, suddenly they can strike faster than an avatar or keeper of secrets, which is insane.

Buttons wrote:

DAWARBOSS wrote:

Buttons wrote:Well I would suggest the following

Jedi Master: 150 Points
Jedi Knight: 100 Points
Padawan: 50 Points

Force speed should give them a running speed boost like they roll 1 extra die when it comes to running and difficult terrain. I 10 is game breaking for 5 points.

Force Disarm doesn't have a price I would suggest 20-30 points.

Protection bubble shouldn't let them move or something.

Clone Troopers: Drop their WS to 2 or I to 3 since at the moment they would pretty easily beat a basic guard squad in hand to hand despite being turrible in hand to hand. Also make DC blaster AP 5 or 6 and make it rapid fire. At the moment it has the second longest range of a basic infantry gun, and the best AP (no one else gets AP 4 for basic infantry).

100pts for a one wound model? i was thinking a little cheaper than a paladin (like 50pts). Also, updated the blasters to AP 6, S 4, but kept the range the same, as they are able to fire 8km or so fluffwise. Also, force powers are meant to be able to be taken by a single model, as the knight squads are up to three, so an increased initiative sounds better.

They are one wound? I didn't look at that and assumed that they would be multi-wound (should have assumed that padawans would be one wound without looking however). Regardless they should be expensive, disregard my price unless you plan to give them 3 wounds a pop. I mean they have a power weapon, high initiative, high WS, and a low invul save. Plus they are all psykers.

They are like chaplains with no ID and insane hand to hand stats. Also, for the force powers, changing the initiative is fine, but I 10 is too much, suddenly they can strike faster than an avatar or keeper of secrets, which is insane.

Alright, changed the force speed to I8, still really fast, also, i have decided that jedi are not psykers, instead, more like crypteks. They have 3+ invulnerable save, and im thinking of bumping a knights wounds to 2, that way they would be priced as you described, maybe 55pts for a base jedi, same price as a plain paladin which has terminator armor, force weapon, two wounds, better strength and toughness, as well as being psykers . So, if anything knights at 55pts per model is still overpriced. but, with the jedi stance rules, 55pts is about right if i bumped up their W to 2 and WS to 6

Maybe for vehicles you could use some of the following:

Low Altitude Assault Transport:
just a heads up, these things pack in a bunch of weapons. They have: 4 air to air missiles under each wing (like stormravens but 8 instead of 4), 2 magnetically accelerated missile launchers (hull mounted), 4 ion repeaters (big lasers that cut through everything, like a lascannon i guess, 2 hull and 2 sponson mounted), and 3 anti personnel turrets (2 at the front and one on the back).
- they can carry 30 clone troopers (!)
- they have special plating on the bottom that reduces the effectiveness of AA fire
- I would definitely consider them to be open-topped
- They would be a fast skimmer
- think of this as the Star Wars version of the stormraven except it can't carry vehicles
- I didn't make any of this up, these things are awesome


TX-130 saber class fighter tank
- two laser cannons
- a bunch of concussion missiles
- fast skimmer
- has a form of minor energy shields

23X All Terrain Tactical enforcer (A.T.T.E)
- six legged walker
- cannot fight in close combat
- not very maneuverable (needs supporting units)
- six anti personnel cannons
- mass driver cannon
- can transport 20 troopers (slowly)
- has heavy armor and energy shields

AT ST All terrain scout walker
- 2 blaster cannons
- grenade launcher
- 2 legged walker
- the same one from Return of the Jedi. The one we saw running through the forest killing teddy bears.

I would keep going but everything else would really only fit in apocalypse, is too impractical, or ineffective.

hope that helps!

I watched that video that you linked earlier, and, the Clone trooper punches a droid in the face, breaks his hand, then gets shot by the droid he punched.

Cody does the same thing, and punches the droids head off.

WUT.

DAWARBOSS wrote:
Force Lightning - 15pts
Force lightning is a powerful force ability, it is characterized by leaping bolts of electricity coming from the wielders hands. Force lightning is a Shooting Attack. Range 12” S6 AP5 Assault 2D6.

While The Force lightning is a very deadly power, I don't think it should be assault 2D6. The power is usually focused on individual targets, not usually used on large groups of enemies isn't it? I think maybe 1D6, if not 1D3?

Quick question, are Arc troopers stronger than comandoes, or are they the same?

Better trained, it is said that aan ARC trooper can beat a commando 1 vs 1, but not a whole squad.

Alright final Jedi knight stat line:

Jedi Knight ... 50pts

WS/6 BS/4 S/3 T/3 I/6 W/2 LD/10 SV/3++

May choose 1-4 force powers (see force powers page)

Any Jedi Knight may take a Padawan ... +20

1 Jedi may upgrade to a weapon master (maximum of 3 force powers) and replace lightsaber with...
Commando Blaster (DC17-m) ... free
May take double bladed lightsaber ... 5pts
may take dual lightsabers ... 10pts
may take lightsaber staff ...5pts

1 Jedi may upgrade to a Jedi healer and gain access to Healer force powers and a bacta ... 30pts

I am liking the sound of this.

Here is the proifle that I would give an AT-TE:

Points: 175
BS: 4 F:13 S:12 R:11
Type: Transport (20 Clone Troopers/Commandos, ARC Troopers/Heavy Weapon Troopers/Jump Troopers take 2 slots), Walker
FOC: Heavy Support
Special Rules:
Drop Ship: Any AT-TE may enter play via Drop Ship. If it chooses to, the drop ship will enter play on the owning player's turn 3 Movement Phase. It can move on 36" from either of the side board edges (Players choice) It cannot come on any sooner than Turn 3

Acurate Targetting: the blast from the Laser Blast Cannon dosen't scatter

Manned Turret: The turret of the AT-TE has it's own gunner, therein it can always fire it's turret, even at a different target to those engaged by the AT-TEs other weapons. Futhermore, any roll To Hit of a six on side armour may be directed at the gunner. Roll to wound as normal, counting the gunner as T4 and a 4+ save. If he is killed, then the Turret cannot be fired for a turn as a new gunner has to climb into the Turret.

Weapons:
(Turret mounted) Laser Blast Cannon: R:72" S:9 AP:1 Heavy 1, small blast
Laser Cannons (four at front, two at rear. All front ones must target the same unit, all rear ones must target the same unit) R:48" S:6 AP:3 Heavy 2

Bobthehero wrote:Better trained, it is said that aan ARC trooper can beat a commando 1 vs 1, but not a whole squad.

An ARC trooper is actually made noticeably better than a human on the genetic level, rather like how some Karskins and IoM Stormtroopers are given low level gene-enhancements. So I'd say ARC troopers would be around Captain America's level physically.

Kain wrote:

Bobthehero wrote:Better trained, it is said that aan ARC trooper can beat a commando 1 vs 1, but not a whole squad.

An ARC trooper is actually made noticeably better than a human on the genetic level, rather like how some Karskins and IoM Stormtroopers are given low level gene-enhancements. So I'd say ARC troopers would be around Captain America's level physically.

So, strength 4?

I had actually been writing up Yoda, and Obi-Wan, for a different blog, I can give them to you and you can do what you want to them.

Yoda… 400pnts
FOC: HQ
Type: Infantry (Unique)
WS 6(8) BS 5 ST 3 T 3 W 2 I 5(8) A 4 Ld 10 SV 2++
Wargear: Master Robe, Emerald Lightsaber: Curved handled, short-blade
Master Robe:
Emerald Lightsaber:
Lightsaber additions;
Curved handled: Incurs a +d3 attacks in the assault phase.
Short-blade: Glances vehicles on a 5+ not a 4+, wounds on a 4+ not a 3+ and increases I and WS by 1.

Special Rules: Fearless, Move Through Cover, Stealth, Ancient Jedi Master, Force Call.
Ancient Jedi master:
Jedi Master Powers:: (When using these powers the Jedi cannot charge that turn, and may only use one per player turn.)
Tank Lift:
Crush:
Master Deflection:

Force Call; This means the Jedi has the following powers during the fight and does not have any restriction on their use or number of uses outside of how they are worded and does not need to pass a psychic test to use them, nor do they count as psychic powers.

Runna wrote:I had actually been writing up Yoda, and Obi-Wan, for a different blog, I can give them to you and you can do what you want to them.

Yoda… 400pnts
FOC: HQ
Type: Infantry (Unique)
WS 6(8) BS 5 ST 3 T 3 W 2 I 5(8) A 4 Ld 10 SV 2++
Wargear: Master Robe, Emerald Lightsaber: Curved handled, short-blade
Master Robe:

Spoiler:

The robe itself provides little protection, but it represents the status and training of an Elite Jedi Council member. This incurs their ability to both parry and dodge attacks in close combat as well as those of high-powered projectiles. It confers the stealth special rule and a 2+ invulnerable save. The invulnerable save may not be used against blast templates or fire templates.

Emerald Lightsaber:

Spoiler:

A green lightsaber that ignores armor saves and can deflect 1d6 shots that are allocated to the wielder. (Deflect means that many shots, not blasts or fire templates, will be ignored.) It also wounds on a 3+, glances a vehicle on a 4+ and penetrates a vehicle on a 6.

Lightsaber additions;
Curved handled: Incurs a +d3 attacks in the assault phase.
Short-blade: Glances vehicles on a 5+ not a 4+, wounds on a 4+ not a 3+ and increases I and WS by 1.

Special Rules: Fearless, Move Through Cover, Stealth, Ancient Jedi Master, Force Call.
Ancient Jedi master:

Spoiler:

Yoda’s age and connection with the force makes him a powerful force wielder. He is treated as having the Eternal Warrior Special Rule in regards to Instant Death. In addition, he may use three of the more prominent Force Powers. Unlike his other force powers, these abilities count as psychic attacks and a Psychic test must be made. Yoda does not suffer perils of the warp however. Yoda does not suffer perils of the warp however. Instead, should he fail, he will lose the ability to use that power for the remainder of the game.

Jedi Master Powers:: (When using these powers the Jedi cannot charge that turn, and may only use one per player turn.)
Tank Lift:

Spoiler:

Used during your shooting phase instead of a shooting attack. Target a vehicle within 12” of Yoda, he may lift this vehicle up and throw it up to 1D6”. The vehicle suffers a crew stunned result even if it would usually not be able to suffer said result. It also takes damage at St 6, + the number of inches, + the armor of the vehicle over ten. If there is a unit embarked in the vehicle, whether it is destroyed or not, each model in the unit suffers a strength hit equal to the half the number of inches thrown + 1. (maximum of 4, min of 2). These wounds cannot be allocated and must be delivered to each model. No cover saves aloud. (If cover saves would apply. Via: stealth or other rules.)

Crush:

Spoiler:

Used during your shooting phase. Yoda may target a walker or a single model unit within 8”. Yoda rolls 2d6 after passing his psychic test. The model takes a number of wounds equal to half the amount of the roll minus it’s toughness. No matter the roll, the model always suffers one wound, this wound cannot be saved. A walker becomes instantly wrecked. (The exception to this rule is Walkers that are also psykers. A walker that is a psyker may attempt to limit the damage to a weapon destroyed result by taking a psychic test immediately.)

Master Deflection:

Spoiler:

Used during your opponents shooting phase. Yoda may take one blast template that targets him or his unit and place it 6” away from any of your units, after it has already rolled to scatter, regardless of whether or not it was a hit. He may instead choose to use this power to negate all flame templates targeting his unit this turn. If he chooses to negate flame templates however, he may not move in the following movement phase. (He and his unit can still charge during the assault, and/or run during the shooting phase.)

Force Call; This means the Jedi has the following powers during the fight and does not have any restriction on their use or number of uses outside of how they are worded and does not need to pass a psychic test to use them, nor do they count as psychic powers.

Spoiler:

Force Speed: +1 WS +2 In, and ignores rules that allow enemies to strike first against him. (If they have higher initiative they may still go first of course.) Always active.
Force Will: May take a psychic test to negate any psychic power that targets him or his unit. (Used whenever targeted if Force Shield has not been used.)
Force Leap: Moves as a Jump Trooper. (Always active.)
Force Shield: Can utilize a 3+ armor save. (This power cannot be used the same turn as Force Will. Cannot be used during the assault phase nor does it apply to wounds caused in assault.)
Guide: Yoda’s unit counts as have BS 6 for this shooting phase. (Used during the shooting phase instead of a Jedi Master Power.)
Strength: Used during the assault phase. Instead of the usual assault bonus the lightsaber grants, the Jedi now counts as having a power weapon and striking at double strength.
Deter: The Jedi may force a unit within 18” to take a leadership test, if they fail, they will count as fleeing for this and the following turn. They may re-group as usual during the opponents following turn. (Used during the movement phase instead of moving.)

Isn't that a little OP?

I was thinking something like this (see first page for special rules and force powers):

Yoda: 235pts
WS/8 S/3 T/3 W/3 I/7 A/4 LD/10 SV/3++

Special rules: Fleet, Lightsaber stance, Master Jedi

Master Jedi - Yoda is considered one of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy. He is able to cast up to three force powers, instead of the usual two.

Jedi Powers:
Force Pull
Tutaminis
Force speed
Alter Environment
Predict

Interesting to see how this is developing, I think the special characters should be balanced - I can see Obi-Wan being able to take down a 'Fex for instance. Remember, Masters would have a good amount of plot armour, so a good inv save (i'm thinking 3+) would be acceptable - they have the force, jedi initiative and instinct, and I think would be able to move a lot faster than a Marine, regardless of power armour or no.

It would be OP, because of his powers, but he doesn't usually live long enough to do any more damage than his points worth, and I proxied him, (did a lot of work on it.) and he usually played ok, to be honest, he's over-priced more than anything. He takes enough wounds to usually be dead third turn and that's if I didn't roll snake eyes with him. Used in large groups he's best.
I was going to go 3++ and 3 wounds.
Change him to 325 points.
The Jedi powers were never completely problems in game. So I wasn't going to replace any of them.
Sometimes reading a guy and using a guy are different. Playtesting the units in a codex is important because of this.
Reading over the Space Wolves Codex or that Grey Knights codex always pisses me off. Yet, they've never beat me. (Granted I've never fought a tournament army of theirs.)
Anyways, your writing the codex, so again, I only posted Yoda to give you ideas for your own personal take on him.
He really can crush walkers and throw tanks, though. Which,...is...well...pretty bad ass for a little green guy.

I think point-wise your Yoda works fine. That sentence being the more important one of the post.

Obi-Wan Kenobi… 250pnts

Lightsaber Additions;
DC Blaster: Rng 18” St 3 Ap 6 Assault D3
Special Rules: Obi-Wan’s Jedi Mastery, Force Call, High Resolve, Quick Renown, Strange Luck, Infiltrate (He confers this to his unit).
Obi-Wan’s Jedi Mastery: Obi-Wan, although not yet a Jedi master, has shown a unique and powerful control over the force in areas that are less common for a Jedi to be so adept at. His unique mastery of such powers has made him often the go-to Jedi for the Republic, and a name high, if not at the top, of most of the Republics enemies lists. He has access to the following psychic powers. Some of which do not require tests.
Force Call: This means the Jedi has the following powers during the fight and does not have any restriction on their use or number of uses outside of how they are worded and does not need to pass a psychic test to use them, nor do they count as psychic powers.

High Resolve: Although Obi-Wan is not fearless, his leadership cannot be lowered. He always counts as taking leadership tests at 10, even when losing combat.
Quick Renown: Obi-Wan has a knack for angering enemy leaders. All enemy Independent Characters have preferred enemy against Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Strange Luck: Obi-Wan never seems to die during the Clone Wars. When he is defeated, leave his model on the board as an extra objective. The enemy still gains the kill points for felling him.

This may be slightly unbalanced as Obi-Wan is my favorite character in almost any story I've encountered. I did obviously have a lot of fun with it, and way too many rules, but if it was in a Star Wars Codex or something, obvisouly the force powers would be listed somewhere else as well as the lightsaber upgrades and other wargear, which would save a lot of time. He's not Eternal Warrior and I imagine he'll do some nice damage, attempting to earn his points back, before the enemy has taken him out, but I envision Obi-Wan never making it to turn five. He's just as much fun to play as he is to play against, though he's tough. Infiltrate rule based off his Jedi powers, but maybe it could be dropped. Between Obi-Wan and Yoda, you can see all the Force Call powers I wrote up when I got too into the whole thing, didn't do any other characters though, they are the only Star Wars ones I wanted to try my hand at.
I spoilered the whole thing so as not to take up to much space on your thread. I also wrote up lightsaber upgrades if you want to have a look at them. Again, I've had the two-characters on hand for some time, though Obi-Wan got a re-make recently. So I have no real attachment to their rules or anything, just want to give them to you, help give you more ideas and keep your interest in writing your own take on the characters and the world going. When writing my own codex I always find more intrigue in it when others offer insight or opinion, I was lucky during the mid-stages to have a good group to playtest with, and a Star Wars Codex I'm sure will appeal to more people and it won't be too hard to get you some playtesting in. [/b]

Runna wrote:it penetrates vehicles and ignores invulnerable saves on a 6

I think it should only ignore invulnerables that are granted by a special wargear, since some (like mark of Tzeentch) are given by, in Mark of Tzeentch's case for example, by gods or other factors that can't be simply ignored.

I like this codex, and how the jedi are turning out, but think that the rules for them need to be streamlined a bit. So many rules on paper, is it ok to get around in-game?

LlamaAgility wrote:

Runna wrote:it penetrates vehicles and ignores invulnerable saves on a 6

I think it should only ignore invulnerables that are granted by a special wargear, since some (like mark of Tzeentch) are given by, in Mark of Tzeentch's case for example, by gods or other factors that can't be simply ignored.

I would agree with that. That makes sense.

i really really like what you have so far. I DO think that some of the powers are slightly undercosted. A 2+ save for a jedi (is that armor or invul) if an invul is far to cheap at 25 points, and 2d6 str 6 shots for 15 points? It needs draw backs. For instance, you never really saw a sith lord moving while using lightning. It is typically depicted as requiring intense concentration to use. Maybe make it heavy.

Alright, quick update. I have completed the codex, will post as soon as i convert everything to pictures. I made the army and gave it to my brother, and he loved it... Will have a test game soon.

DAWARBOSS wrote:Alright, quick update. I have completed the codex, will post as soon as i convert everything to pictures. I made the army and gave it to my brother, and he loved it... Will have a test game soon.

please put it up soon, i'd love to have it

DAWARBOSS wrote:Alright, quick update. I have completed the codex, will post as soon as i convert everything to pictures. I made the army and gave it to my brother, and he loved it... Will have a test game soon.

awesome