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hellspawn22 wrote:

skronk wrote:I totally would. Sign up my guard! We all want pulse rifles!

Heretic. Besides, it's easy enough to outfit a couple hundred thousand fire wrriors with those, but billions upon billions of guardsmen? I don't think so. Anyway, I like my trusty flashlight, especially when supported by Basilisks and tanks that don't break as fast as Tau armor does.

Of course, that would be before their crews had been liquified, inside their armored coffin from a well placed Rail Gun shot. The only advantage your Gue'la Armor stands a chance against our might is through numbers. Our superior use of Seeker Missiles and A.I. Sentience would crush you otherwise.

KplKeegan wrote:

hellspawn22 wrote:

skronk wrote:I totally would. Sign up my guard! We all want pulse rifles!

Heretic. Besides, it's easy enough to outfit a couple hundred thousand fire wrriors with those, but billions upon billions of guardsmen? I don't think so. Anyway, I like my trusty flashlight, especially when supported by Basilisks and tanks that don't break as fast as Tau armor does.

Of course, that would be before their crews had been liquified, inside their armored coffin from a well placed Rail Gun shot. The only advantage your Gue'la Armor stands a chance against our might is through numbers. Our superior use of Seeker Missiles and A.I. Sentience would crush you otherwise.

Right. We've got tanks to spare. couple of thousand of 'em in fact. And the troops to throw on your pesky pulse rifles.

skronk wrote:I totally would. Sign up my guard! We all want pulse rifles!

Bolters are much better.

Fetterkey wrote:
Note also that the Tau are held to be unusually, suspiciously human-like...

They are?

I'd sooner hook up with an Eldar rather than to one of those blue-skinned, fish-faced freaks. Ignoring the height, pointy features, and psychic abilities, Eldar are pretty much juiced-up Humans. They even act the same way Humans do. The Tau don't even have a nose, or a fifth finger.

Which is more Human, this:


Or this:


I think I'm sticking with the wisdom of the Old Ones and going with our elder cousins, the Eldar. Off-universe, I've practically fallen in love with the beauty and elegance of Eldar females, and it's a shame that the virtually identical attitudes of our two races prevent any meaningful cooperation.

KplKeegan wrote:

hellspawn22 wrote:

skronk wrote:I totally would. Sign up my guard! We all want pulse rifles!

Heretic. Besides, it's easy enough to outfit a couple hundred thousand fire wrriors with those, but billions upon billions of guardsmen? I don't think so. Anyway, I like my trusty flashlight, especially when supported by Basilisks and tanks that don't break as fast as Tau armor does.

Of course, that would be before their crews had been liquified, inside their armored coffin from a well placed Rail Gun shot. The only advantage your Gue'la Armor stands a chance against our might is through numbers. Our superior use of Seeker Missiles and A.I. Sentience would crush you otherwise.

For every tank you destroy and every Guardsman you kill, a million stand ready to take their place. Not to mention Space Marines, Titans, Skitarii, Praetorians, Secutors. Did I mention Ordinatii? Or the Holy Sisters for that matter?

It's one thing to argue for the superiority of the Tau technology, but you can't argue for the superiority of the Tau Empire itself. It isn't, plain and simple. It isn't suppoed to be, for that matter.

And as for the benefits of the Greater Good vs. the Imperial Creed? That's all opinion. The greater good is pretty okay, but it has a lot of flaws as it expands. I reckon if you gave it 10,000 years and an galaxy-spanning empire to cater to, it might start to become a little darker. And even ignoring that fact? For Mankind. All the way. The Imperial Creed has a lot to it, but boil it down and you've got just a few basics: Worship the Immortal Emperor and fight for Humanity and the right of Man to rule the galaxy. That's the team I'm on. Warp take your Greater Good.

hellspawn22 wrote:
And as for the benefits of the Greater Good vs. the Imperial Creed? That's all opinion. The greater good is pretty okay, but it has a lot of flaws as it expands. I reckon if you gave it 10,000 years and an galaxy-spanning empire to cater to, it might start to become a little darker. And even ignoring that fact? For Mankind. All the way. The Imperial Creed has a lot to it, but boil it down and you've got just a few basics: Worship the Immortal Emperor and fight for Humanity and the right of Man to rule the galaxy. That's the team I'm on. Warp take your Greater Good.

The Greater Good has many similarities to the Imperial Truth, and we all saw how that turned out. The Emperor failed to take into account Mankind's need to believe in something greater than itself, leading to the Horus Heresy, which is probably why He made no effort to stop the rise of the Ecclesiarchy. The Imperial Truth was already dead during the latter part of the Heresy, with Malcador and the newly-formed Inquisition working under the Emperor's orders. How long until the Ethereals make the same mistake? How long until a Chaos Cult/s takes root in the Tau Empire and rots it away? Tolerance and understanding don't work in 40k. Even the arrogant Eldar would agree with 'lowly' Humans on this matter. The Emperor wouldn't have made the Tau to continue His dream because His dream was killed on His orders. Sorry, but I'm sticking to the Imperium, ave Imperator.

Tadashi wrote:The Emperor wouldn't have made the Tau to continue His dream because His dream was killed on His orders. Sorry, but I'm sticking to the Imperium, ave Imperator.

The Emperor's personality is fragmented. Part of it could be attempting to maintain the status quo while part of it develops secret projects to attempt to move to a better state of affairs-- indeed, the Inquisition War trilogy directly supports this claim. Thus, it's entirely possible that the Emperor is both attempting to maintain the Imperium as it stands and attempting to foster the Tau as a potential replacement paradigm for mankind.

No man, just no. He hated xeno's with a passion. And fragmented or not would never raise a xeno race above mankind. And the time line just does not add up.It is about 50 times more likely the eldar made them or even the necrons for giggles then the big E even thinking of doing so. It is simply to out of character for him.

No.

Just no.

I have no real reason, I just hate this idea oh so very much, in the same way I hate crossover fan fictions. It just shouldn't be done.

No.

No

Never.

With all the points raised against you, your points become more and more far-fetched and ridiculous.

As others have said,

No

Fetterkey wrote:

Tadashi wrote:The Emperor wouldn't have made the Tau to continue His dream because His dream was killed on His orders. Sorry, but I'm sticking to the Imperium, ave Imperator.

The Emperor's personality is fragmented. Part of it could be attempting to maintain the status quo while part of it develops secret projects to attempt to move to a better state of affairs-- indeed, the Inquisition War trilogy directly supports this claim. Thus, it's entirely possible that the Emperor is both attempting to maintain the Imperium as it stands and attempting to foster the Tau as a potential replacement paradigm for mankind.

Actually, no. The Emperor's fragmenting soul still believes in Mankind's manifest destiny to rule the stars - but, there's the catch. They're not complete. A spirit is missing: "...the spirit of goodness and compassion we cast of ourselves..." When the Emperor obliterated Horus, He cast that spirit out, becoming the Star Child. The Emperor knows this, which is why He and His fragmented soul wasn't surprised when Draco told Him about the Illuminati and the Ordo Hydra - the Illuminati may believe themselves undetected by the Emperor, but the Emperor knows who they are and what they're planning - He probably planned the same thing the moment He was hooked up to the Throne. You think if the Emperor is reborn He would submit to the Tau? Of course not. A massive reorganization of the Administratum, centralization of the Inquisition, rewriting/re-codifying of the Imperial Creed, Adeptus Mechanicus, and Codex Astartes will take place, but the High Lords/Council of Terra will retain governance of the Imperium and the "Humans-first" policy will still be upheld.

I love the idea! It seems to be provoking serious hate but I love the idea that the emperor was wise enough to kind of install a back up plan in the galaxy! And what better way to do it than in the form of a race with no warp presence which means Chaos has less hold over them from the get-go.

I have no doubt that if he would awaken, the 'project' would be thrown out and mankind would enter a age of new order, involving a lot of genocide. But at the moment it would make sense to keep an outwardly friendly (at least in the context of 40k ) pet species to be used.

The technology thing seems a decent argument because as i understand it, most attempts to improve things are considered heretical by the IoM. The point is not whether Tau are technologically superior now, but that they would have the means and motivation to surpass IoM eventually.

I don't know enough about fluff to really say I agree/disagree for sure, but i think Fetterkey is making some good points, and in light of huge opposition is actually arguing his point quite well!

Mighty Tzeentch created the Tau. It may not seem likely right now, but it will...
Oh yes, it will...

Daedricbob wrote:Mighty Tzeentch created the Tau. It may not seem likely right now, but it will...
Oh yes, it will...

Everything suddenly makes sense, lol.

Tadashi wrote:Actually, no. The Emperor's fragmenting soul still believes in Mankind's manifest destiny to rule the stars

Certainly it does, but parts of it may attempt to resolve that issue by different means.

Tadashi wrote:You think if the Emperor is reborn He would submit to the Tau? Of course not.

No, but I could easily see mankind joining the Tau Empire, then rising up and bringing it down from within upon the Emperor's return.

Fetterkey wrote:[

Tadashi wrote:You think if the Emperor is reborn He would submit to the Tau? Of course not.

No, but I could easily see mankind joining the Tau Empire, then rising up and bringing it down from within upon the Emperor's return.

Over the Imperium's dead body.

Tadashi wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:[

Tadashi wrote:You think if the Emperor is reborn He would submit to the Tau? Of course not.

No, but I could easily see mankind joining the Tau Empire, then rising up and bringing it down from within upon the Emperor's return.

.

The Emperor would just launch a crusade and crush the tau through force. There is no need to take it down from the inside, 114 worlds held by a technologically inferior xenos race is nothing to the imperium. and large crusades spanning hundreds of worlds like the sabbat worlds crusade are something the imperium is quit familiar with, and would no doubt end in success.

Those are some nice theories developed, certainly believable imo. Haters are always gonna hate though. It certainly can't be proven until the new edition comes out, but even after it does it certainly could not be disproven. However, such out of the box thinking or anything that isn't pro IMPERIAL GLORY is wasted on the simple minded members of the dakka community. Their inferior minds and closed conservative view points just can't comprehend something of this magnitude. It is really true for a majority of the 40k community, which is the prime reason why I do not believe something like this is going to be incorporated by GW. So even though it is one of countless add ons to the universe that would make perfect sense and is quite good writing, it is far to radical for these simple minded folk.

The only differing viewpoint I have on the matter, if this were to be true, is that I do not believe the Emperor altered or created the Tau in any way. Some one before pointed that the time frame would be a little tricky, but I just do not like the idea of it or see it as a possibility. What I personally think would make more sense is that thousands of years ago the Emperor merely observed the Tau, ran tests or whatever, and saw potential. Then before anything could be done on the matter the HH happened and boom we are where we are now. It isn't to far fetched to think that there would be at least one race who is immune to chaos, I mean orks and nids technically are. They happen to just be a sophisticated one. An that doesn't mean humanity has to integrate into their society. That is something that seems way to radical, especially with the current mindset and differing views of both Empires. An alliance with gradual coexistence seems much more probable, and better for both societies.

People with different opinions that you are not necessarily "simple minded." Please don't engage in this kind of rhetoric because it is rude and against our rules.

Thanks ~ Manchu

darkcloud92 wrote:Those are some nice theories developed, certainly believable imo. Haters are always gonna hate though. It certainly can't be proven until the new edition comes out, but even after it does it certainly could not be disproven. However, such out of the box thinking or anything that isn't pro IMPERIAL GLORY is wasted on the simple minded members of the dakka community. Their inferior minds and closed conservative view points just can't comprehend something of this magnitude. It is really true for a majority of the 40k community, which is the prime reason why I do not believe something like this is going to be incorporated by GW. So even though it is one of countless add ons to the universe that would make perfect sense and is quite good writing, it is far to radical for these simple minded folk.

The only differing viewpoint I have on the matter, if this were to be true, is that I do not believe the Emperor altered or created the Tau in any way. Some one before pointed that the time frame would be a little tricky, but I just do not like the idea of it or see it as a possibility. What I personally think would make more sense is that thousands of years ago the Emperor merely observed the Tau, ran tests or whatever, and saw potential. Then before anything could be done on the matter the HH happened and boom we are where we are now. It isn't to far fetched to think that there would be at least one race who is immune to chaos, I mean orks and nids technically are. They happen to just be a sophisticated one. An that doesn't mean humanity has to integrate into their society. That is something that seems way to radical, especially with the current mindset and differing views of both Empires. An alliance with gradual coexistence seems much more probable, and better for both societies.

You really ought to read up on the Emperor's background. Sure, He wanted Chaos defeated, but even before He became Emperor He had the Humans-first policy up and running for Himself. Besides, His plan to defeat Chaos was centered around the Imperial Truth, and creating/influencing a non-Chaos touchable race makes no sense when you consider that the ultimate goal of His plan was to accelerate Mankind's evolution into a psychic race. He might have considered cooperation/non-aggression or even perhaps assimilation with regards to the Eldar, but that was only because of their knowledge regarding Chaos and the Webway, not to mention their physical and mental similarities would have made them more comfortable working with unlike other xenos. Like everything else they were going to be a means to an end, in this case fighting Chaos and helping conquer/explore/rebuild the Webway, or maybe even help develop/improve psychic technology; depending on how it turned out, they would either have been betrayed and destroyed or assimilated into the Imperium.

If the Tau were indeed created by someone (or something) else it would have to be the eldar, or maybe even the old ones. As there are too many arguments against the emperor creating them.
Honestly though, I think the Tau were created by chance just like humans, but the tau evolve more rapidly and are immume to the warp. They are also a very peaceful species that is against any religion and supports unity between species, making them the ultimate saviours of the galaxy.

Of course that Tau fans are always for Imperium joining Tau Empire...

xkiwitimex wrote:They are also a very peaceful species that is against any religion and supports unity between species, making them the ultimate saviours of the galaxy.

The Tau are not peaceful. They are infact a every aggressive and expansionist species. Nor are they immune to the Warp. An argument could be made for them to be resistant to Chaos (although they still have free will, as evidenced by Farsight, and as such could choose ot join Chaos if they so wished; propaganda and a lack of knowledge prevents them, not any innate immunity), but they are still effected by Psychic abilities and exposure to the Warp itself. If a Tau is thrown into the Warp, he will not live very long.

xkiwitimex wrote:
Honestly though, I think the Tau were created by chance just like humans, but the tau evolve more rapidly and are immume to the warp. They are also a very peaceful species that is against any religion and supports unity between species, making them the ultimate saviours of the galaxy.

Are you asking the Tau to repeat the miscalculation of atheism? The Tau Empire is willing to include Humans, who have an implicit desire to believe in something greater than themselves. Like the Imperial Truth, the Greater Good just isn't going to stand up in the face of Chaos and the daemons of the Warp. You know this. In the end, the Emperor Himself recognized that He miscalculated, and Lorgar and Magnus were right - Mankind needed religion to fill the spiritual void and yearning in Mankind, and Mankind needed to know in order to fight Chaos. And Tau are NOT immune to the Warp. Sure, they have a low profile, but that doesn't stop them from getting hit by psychic powers/sorcery, and they can still be possessed (probably) by daemons if witches/sorcerers make a conscious/serious effort to do so. In fact, I suspect that somewhere in the Gue'vasa world, Tzeentchian/Slaaneshi cults are lurking in the shadows, content and reveling in the knowledge that the Tau Empire is unwittingly helping them stay clear of Imperial attention.

darkcloud92 wrote:Those are some nice theories developed, certainly believable imo. Haters are always gonna hate though. It certainly can't be proven until the new edition comes out, but even after it does it certainly could not be disproven. However, such out of the box thinking or anything that isn't pro IMPERIAL GLORY is wasted on the simple minded members of the dakka community. Their inferior minds and closed conservative view points just can't comprehend something of this magnitude. It is really true for a majority of the 40k community, which is the prime reason why I do not believe something like this is going to be incorporated by GW. So even though it is one of countless add ons to the universe that would make perfect sense and is quite good writing, it is far to radical for these simple minded folk.

I think you are overestimating the sophistication and open mindedness of imperial society. the society the imperium has created is super conservative and closed minded. They are like the peasants in the dark ages, they wouldn't know or care if something was better for them. That's why the imperium has no chance of joining the tau. Even if all humanity benefited, the power of the imperial church and the imperial culture simply doesn't allow for it.

They hate xeno's with a religious zealotry and actually believe they are the equivalent of the devil. They are not going to side with them!
Regardless of weather it is irrational or not the imperium is simply not capable.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:The Emperor, you have to understand [...] will not advocate incorporating the human race into an alien empire, whereafter they will have their identities removed and made into virtual drones serving "the greater good."

Very much this.

darkcloud92 wrote:However, such out of the box thinking or anything that isn't pro IMPERIAL GLORY is wasted on the simple minded members of the dakka community. Their inferior minds and closed conservative view points just can't comprehend something of this magnitude. It is really true for a majority of the 40k community, which is the prime reason why I do not believe something like this is going to be incorporated by GW. So even though it is one of countless add ons to the universe that would make perfect sense and is quite good writing, it is far to radical for these simple minded folk.

Dude, chill out. I really don't think you can actually accuse me and others who like the Imperium of being "close-minded" with "inferior minds". We've got different opinions on a matter. That doesn't make us idiots, and I don't think you're justified in insulting us or the 40k community at large. I'm simple-minded just because I like the Emperor and the Imperium of Man? That I'm interested in something that in-universe is outrageously conservative doesn't mean I am. It's entirely fictional and I think it's cool. That doesn't make me an idiot. Yes, I can comprehend the theory. But I think 3 pages of debate have provided plenty of evidence as to why that theory isn't necessarily correct. Just because I disagree doesn't make me simple-minded. To be plain, it reflects rather poorly on you that you judge everyone who disagrees with you as unintelligent. Especially over a fictional political entity.

Is the the part where we get to call him one of those danged Commie-Tauist space-liburrrrls?

Hmmmmm space - communists.... note for children's book...

hellspawn22 wrote:

darkcloud92 wrote:However, such out of the box thinking or anything that isn't pro IMPERIAL GLORY is wasted on the simple minded members of the dakka community. Their inferior minds and closed conservative view points just can't comprehend something of this magnitude. It is really true for a majority of the 40k community, which is the prime reason why I do not believe something like this is going to be incorporated by GW. So even though it is one of countless add ons to the universe that would make perfect sense and is quite good writing, it is far to radical for these simple minded folk.

Dude, chill out. I really don't think you can actually accuse me and others who like the Imperium of being "close-minded" with "inferior minds". We've got different opinions on a matter. That doesn't make us idiots, and I don't think you're justified in insulting us or the 40k community at large. I'm simple-minded just because I like the Emperor and the Imperium of Man? That I'm interested in something that in-universe is outrageously conservative doesn't mean I am. It's entirely fictional and I think it's cool. That doesn't make me an idiot. Yes, I can comprehend the theory. But I think 3 pages of debate have provided plenty of evidence as to why that theory isn't necessarily correct. Just because I disagree doesn't make me simple-minded. To be plain, it reflects rather poorly on you that you judge everyone who disagrees with you as unintelligent. Especially over a fictional political entity.

Besides, the only race in 40k that isn't outrageously conservative are Orks.

And Orks, as we all know, are awesome.

There is really nothing else to say on the matter.

Melissia wrote:

hellspawn22 wrote:

darkcloud92 wrote:However, such out of the box thinking or anything that isn't pro IMPERIAL GLORY is wasted on the simple minded members of the dakka community. Their inferior minds and closed conservative view points just can't comprehend something of this magnitude. It is really true for a majority of the 40k community, which is the prime reason why I do not believe something like this is going to be incorporated by GW. So even though it is one of countless add ons to the universe that would make perfect sense and is quite good writing, it is far to radical for these simple minded folk.

Dude, chill out. I really don't think you can actually accuse me and others who like the Imperium of being "close-minded" with "inferior minds". We've got different opinions on a matter. That doesn't make us idiots, and I don't think you're justified in insulting us or the 40k community at large. I'm simple-minded just because I like the Emperor and the Imperium of Man? That I'm interested in something that in-universe is outrageously conservative doesn't mean I am. It's entirely fictional and I think it's cool. That doesn't make me an idiot. Yes, I can comprehend the theory. But I think 3 pages of debate have provided plenty of evidence as to why that theory isn't necessarily correct. Just because I disagree doesn't make me simple-minded. To be plain, it reflects rather poorly on you that you judge everyone who disagrees with you as unintelligent. Especially over a fictional political entity.

Besides, the only race in 40k that isn't outrageously conservative are Orks.

And Orks, as we all know, are awesome.

There is really nothing else to say on the matter.

ORKS ARE AWESOME!!!!!!!

Fixed.