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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 14:58:07
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Druid Warder
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can we bash the game AFTER its been released?
like reasonable people?
im not particularly excited about this game (read: not at all) but the complaints here are ASTOUNDING.
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Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:07:28
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Fixture of Dakka
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Platuan4th wrote:Grot 6 wrote:
Your pulling out your E peen for a meh game that should be a step up in the gaming world. "I'll let Ed know.... " WTF is that, anyway?
I'd have reacted the same way to you saying it about SkeletonKey products, too. It's not about the game, it's about the implications you're putting on a friend. Ed Bourelle's been doing game tiles(mostly for RPGs) for a long time, way longer than he's been working for PP. It's what he was known for in the gaming industry and part of the reason that PP hired him in the first place(his revamping of the MKI league system being another). It's hardly "lazy" for them to make a game that use that resource in a time when games using tiles are popular.
Stop taking it personal and look at it from what we have been seeing from PP almost on a daily basis.
They might have been able to get away with this five or six years ago in much the same way as that GRIND game, OR Bodgers did. Not now.
They have just produced what looks like the equivilent of titans for warmahordes, and quite reasonable pricing, sculpts, and great additions to each of the factions. Add that with the upcoming plastic HORDES set, as well as with the several other units, and other additions that they are showcasing MONTHS ahead of schedual.( however you spell it  )
With the "Popularity" of tile games, the popularity is in the total game. NOT JUST THE ARTWORK. You pulled that card, chief, not me. The art isn't even the thing. We're looking at a game of tiles, some cut out chits, and... not much else. Matter of fact, that artwork is not even the issue. its the lack of forethought into this game, and the implication as you put it that PP thinks they can get lazy and push tiles with thier brand name posted on it, and everyone is automaticly assumed to tilt nipple to it.
Yes, it is a tile game, but I have about sixteen that I'm sitting in the store looking at, ready to put hard earned coin to to take home and play. Am I going to play it for five minutes, or open it, say- "Hey, WTF PP, wheres the minis?" or am I going to just up, throw down my fifty plus bucks on a game with something in it, and play it again and again. This is coming from the guy that has capitol to throw down for games in the first place. Look at the selections of tile games out there, FF is eating your lunch, and CMON is a close second.
Capitalize on Tile games, but damn, at least look at the competition before you throw Privateer Press on a game and act suprised when people call you on no lickies and chewies.
GW will take a beating at any turn that they deserve it. PP is not any better. They push vaporware, they are getting called on it, especially since they themselves set thier standard,
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At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:09:42
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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@Bakerofish: Except that they really aren't.
PP has been touting Level 7 as the next revolution in Sci-Fi gaming for at least a year.
Then all that comes out is a board game with apparently less value than the competition (see Sedition Wars and Zombicide for examples of what I mean), is it so unreasonable that people are upset about it?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/08 15:10:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:13:14
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Bane Thrall
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PhantomViper wrote:@Bakerofish: Except that they really aren't.
PP has been touting Level 7 as the next revolution in Sci-Fi gaming for at least a year.
Then all that comes out is a board game with apparently less value than the competition (see Sedition Wars and Zombicide for examples of what I mean), is it so unreasonable that people are upset about it?
Where did they tout it as a revolution in Sci-Fi gaming?
How can you guys place value on a game you don't even know the rules to? What if a game was similarly priced, had minis, but the game itself was so terrible you never played twice? Did you get your moneys worth in entertainment?
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GW Rules Interpretation Syndrom. GWRIS. Causes people to second guess a rule in a book because that's what they would have had to do in a GW system.
SilverMK2 wrote:"Well, I have epilepsy and was holding a knife when I had a seizure... I couldn't help it! I was just trying to chop the vegetables for dinner!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:17:27
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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[MOD]
Decrepit Dakkanaut
Cozy cockpit of an Archer ARC-5S
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Play nice kids.
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Fatum Iustum Stultorum
Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:23:04
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Old Sourpuss
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Level 7 is also much larger than just this board game, in the end, it might end up something more like Mantic's Warpath. we have Level 7 [ESCAPE] as the board game, we might have Level 7 [WARGAME] which might be like Warmahordes or larger like 40k, and we have [WELCOME TO] Level 7, which is Matt's movie...
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DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:26:32
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Druid Warder
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seeing as no one here has played the game yet im really hard pressed to see where the lack of thought and laziness comes in
is it underwhelming? yeah thats a strike against this
how does it play though?
ill wait to see what people think after theyve played it. If Im lucky Ill get to play a game or two locally. If not ill get some opinions online from people whove played it.
im not saying that PP is infallible (I dont like GRIND for one) and presentation-wise Level 7 is weak, but claiming disappointment NOW is a little early.
im not looking to change anyones opinion here but when youre spouting off how terrible something is without having played it or because it doesnt have minis(when no one said it was a minis game to begin with)...well... youre sounding like THAT guy.
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Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:29:02
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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Mattman154 wrote:
Where did they tout it as a revolution in Sci-Fi gaming?
I know that sarcasm doesn't come out very well in written form, but hyperbole really isn't that hard to detect.
Mattman154 wrote:
How can you guys place value on a game you don't even know the rules to? What if a game was similarly priced, had minis, but the game itself was so terrible you never played twice? Did you get your moneys worth in entertainment?
If another game had the same content as this one but with miniatures, it would have greater value than this one, even if the rules would be hypothetically worse.
What sells a game initially in this day and age is the amount of "bling" you get inside. Also, speaking of personal preference now, the game could have the best rules in the world, if it doesn't have any miniatures, then I'm not interested. And considering that this is a miniature games forum, I'm guessing that that is the opinion of the majority of Dakkaites as well. If you go down to BoardGameGeek, I'm willing to bet that they will put much more value in the game rules themselves than we do.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:33:46
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Bane Thrall
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PhantomViper wrote: If another game had the same content as this one but with miniatures, it would have greater value than this one, even if the rules would be hypothetically worse.
Ah, well can't argue with that. I guess it's just a matter of preference.
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GW Rules Interpretation Syndrom. GWRIS. Causes people to second guess a rule in a book because that's what they would have had to do in a GW system.
SilverMK2 wrote:"Well, I have epilepsy and was holding a knife when I had a seizure... I couldn't help it! I was just trying to chop the vegetables for dinner!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:40:21
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Fixture of Dakka
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Bakerofish wrote:seeing as no one here has played the game yet im really hard pressed to see where the lack of thought and laziness comes in
is it underwhelming? yeah thats a strike against this
how does it play though?
ill wait to see what people think after theyve played it. If Im lucky Ill get to play a game or two locally. If not ill get some opinions online from people whove played it.
im not saying that PP is infallible (I dont like GRIND for one) and presentation-wise Level 7 is weak, but claiming disappointment NOW is a little early.
im not looking to change anyones opinion here but when youre spouting off how terrible something is without having played it or because it doesnt have minis(when no one said it was a minis game to begin with)...well... youre sounding like THAT guy.
Hey, the standard has already been set. The disappointment is basicly from, "Oh, hey, we're going to pull out the stops and make a tiled board game. We'll pump it up for over a year, and with the other rumors of the scifi game already in the mix, come out with a tiled game with no miniatures in it, and act like its sliced bread."
On top of that, theres the insider angle from "people" who are over at PP spouting off about it, yet... not the minis game. all it is is tiles and cut outs, and its in a market with over 20+ games already doing this with bigger lickies and chewies, irrigardless of price.
As I said, the disappointment comes from the standard that PP has already established, and in light of how they are growing. To come out with nothing but a bunch of tiles, angle it like its something special, and think its new is laughable at best. and a sham at worst, kinda like pulling a fast one with no effort given to the game.
And as to playing it, thats the thing, too. Whats the play really like? with nothing in there but a couple of chits and some punch out counters? What I see here is a vield attempt at Doom, or Spacehulk with a publicity spin to pump it up.
I see a half hearted attempt from a company thats as of late been pumping out some impressive stuff that the tiled game here doesn't even hold a candle to. call it hyped up, call it overblown, but it PP has been busy as of late, and this tiled game is ten steps backwards.
I'm peeved because it was already spoken of before, now that its out, its.... underwhelming and disappointing to someone who was expecting so much more.
(and, yeah, I'm going to be That guy, because I am, or was very interested and hoping for a great no BS tiled minis game from PP, with the new scifi minis and game that was alluded to.)
all I see here is a variation on a theme.
I am stepping back from this one, and we'll see what comes. From what I see right now, I'll stick to CMON, or FF for my Boardgame stuff though.
I'm already stoked on three or four new skirmish games, and some other "Tiled" games. Seeing as money doesn't grow on trees, PP can sit back and wonder where my fifty bucks is.
Even if it was my mom that put this game out, I'd tell her it was crap, and a crap job. Sorry, but that is my opinion, and even if harsh, it is honest, and I am not just sitting here trying to start something.
I was genuinly excited for the scifi angle, and am still waiting for PP to pull them out. And in light of thier current releases and stuff upcoming, I am truly disappointed at this games contents.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/08 15:49:15
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:51:03
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Druid Warder
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@Grot
and Warmachine is just a variation on a theme as well.
you need to take a step back a bit and realize something. while this is "ten steps back" for you , potentially it could be someone's slice of awesome
if the game is a toilet load after release feel free to remind me but right now youre just putting unnecessary stress on yourself.
who knows, if this takes off maybe youll see the Level 7 in your head after all
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Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:55:30
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Fixture of Dakka
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Bakerofish wrote:@Grot
and Warmachine is just a variation on a theme as well.
you need to take a step back a bit and realize something. while this is "ten steps back" for you , potentially it could be someone's slice of awesome
if the game is a toilet load after release feel free to remind me but right now youre just putting unnecessary stress on yourself.
who knows, if this takes off maybe youll see the Level 7 in your head after all
Lets hope so.
Either/Or, good luck to them. Even though it isn't my cup of grog, PP has grown on me lately, and I hope this comes out well for them, irregardless of my opinion.
I really enjoy thier Warmahordes stuff, and am still pretty impressed with these new direction the games have gone and models.
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At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 15:58:41
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne
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Mattman154 wrote:
How can you guys place value on a game you don't even know the rules to? What if a game was similarly priced, had minis, but the game itself was so terrible you never played twice? Did you get your moneys worth in entertainment?
In fairness, do I get to play a free demo? Do I get to buy it and return it a couple of weeks later if I don't like it? Pretty much no to both?
In that case, I only have the physical box contents as my guarantee that I'm getting some form of value for my money which I can still turn around and use elsewhere. Miniatures provide a form of "insurance" in terms of value for money.
I bought Dust Tactics (still haven't had time to play it) and will buy/Kickstart Sedition Wars based on the models in the box. If I find I don't like either/or, I still have a crapload of figures I can use elsewhere, so my money isn't wasted. Super Dungeon Explore (in transit) gets me a pile of cute SD display models. The Gears of War boxed game comes with 32 miniatures. I'm tempted to buy it on that basis alone, for the same reason.
A game that has none of the above has to compete with all of that, as well as price point - and let's face it, a company like PP has so many fanbois for being "the Anti- GW" and so many haters (for the same reason) that many reviews are going to be a little hard to trust.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/08 16:02:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 16:00:27
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Bane Thrall
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scipio.au wrote:Mattman154 wrote:
How can you guys place value on a game you don't even know the rules to? What if a game was similarly priced, had minis, but the game itself was so terrible you never played twice? Did you get your moneys worth in entertainment?
In fairness, do I get to play a free demo? Do I get to buy it and return it a couple of weeks later if I don't like it? Pretty much no to both?
I personally always read reviews before I buy any board game. Sometimes I go so far as to watch some YouTube videos of them. If I'm spending that much money on a game, I like to know the full in and out of what I'm getting.
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GW Rules Interpretation Syndrom. GWRIS. Causes people to second guess a rule in a book because that's what they would have had to do in a GW system.
SilverMK2 wrote:"Well, I have epilepsy and was holding a knife when I had a seizure... I couldn't help it! I was just trying to chop the vegetables for dinner!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 16:08:10
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Druid Warder
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@grot
Between this, the new RPG system, the MonPoc movie and of course WMH PP needs a lot of luck.
personally Id really like a cutesy "Scrappers/Bodgers" minis type game but alas...no luck so far.
and to be honest I REALLY didnt want PP to make a sci-fi game as its a far too saturated field IMHO but people like sci fi so theres an audience and theres money to be made there.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
scipio.au wrote:and let's face it, a company like PP has so many fanbois for being "the Anti-GW" and so many haters (for the same reason) that many reviews are going to be a little hard to trust.
dont read reviews from a Minis player...read reviews from BoardGamers. Thatll ensure a more balanced opinion.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/06/08 16:12:02
Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 16:13:36
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne
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Addressed part of the review component in my edit while you were posting your reply, and often I will try and watch some YouTube reviews which have helped confirm my thoughts towards buying or not, but when it comes down to it, I've just realised I still haven't bothered to buy any non-miniatures boardgames. Stuff like some of the LOTR boardgames seem interesting in theory, but also so abstract that they could really be about just about anything.
I generally prefer either strategic or tactical games, and so coming back to this game, I see it focuses on individuals running around on a map and focuses on a bunch of individuals represented by little stand-up card counters, which.. well, I just can't bring myself to care about. Sorry. I'm a painter and miniatures gamer more than I'm a boardgamer. I wouldn't have had any interest in Dust, Sedition Wars, SDE or even BloodBowl if they came with card counters (got into BB with 2nd Ed) instead of miniatures. I'm considering buying Dwarf Kings Hold and whatever the Space Skaven Spacehulk thing that Mantic are putting out - again, based on the percieved value created by including miniatures, along with the fact that I like miniatures.
In the end, I'm a toy soldier guy over a boardgame guy. My gaming shelves doesn't look like Tom Vasal's. They look more like a GW store combined with a GameStop (minus the second-hand pawnshop vibe).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/08 16:16:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 16:19:54
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Freelance Soldier
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Look, people are not "bashing the game" and its mechanics before they play it, they're simply voicing their disappointment with the idea behind the game. There's a difference between the two.
And even if the game turns out to be well designed, there's already plenty of similar games on the market, already out, that are very good too. What could've been a great minis game turns out to be run-of-the-mill board game. Furthermore, it is undeniably worse value in terms of components than other games in the similar price bracket. Is it *really* surprising that some are displeased with how this LEVEL 7 (in caps!) game turned out? It's not creative in terms of the setting, nor the artwork, nor the play style... And let's be honest, would anyone be pumped for this game if it wasn't coming from PP but an indie developer? I very much doubt it. Will this game stand up to Claustrophobia, Arkham Horror, Mansions of Madness, Gears of War, D&D Adventure System, Descent, Doom, Earth Reborn, SDE, Dwarf King's Hold/Pandora, and so on, and so forth? They're all a little pricier games but it's been proven time and again people are willing to pay a little extra for quality components.
To me, it's a missed opportunity on part of PP. Kind of like Monsterpocalypse, really, which is all but dead.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/08 16:24:55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 16:20:49
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Druid Warder
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@scipio.au
i guess its safe to say that youre not part of Level 7's target market then?
and please do not take offense to the above statement. Some people do. I dont know why.
serious question: were there similar reactions when GW released WH:Invasion? Did people go "Where are the minis?"
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Hey, I just met you,
and this is crazy,
but I'm a demon,
possess you, maybe?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 16:21:47
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Freelance Soldier
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GW didn't release WH: Invasion, FFG did. GW released Dreadfleet
Again, it's not that PP are releasing a board game, it's that their highly anticipated LEVEL 7 SF game is *merely* a paper board game and not a wargame or board game with cool minis attached. They've squandered the opportunity of taking the SF minis market by storm and are releasing a generic board game. That is disappointing to some, me included.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/06/08 16:24:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 16:23:07
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Regardless of anything else this game is generating very little buzz over at Boardgamegeek.....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 16:32:05
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne
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Bakeroffish - I dunno. I guess not? Like I said, I've not heard of this game before this thread. I was intrigued and thought it might be good, and then found out that it's "just" a boardgame, which as -DE- points out has a lot of other well-respected competition.
I haven't heard of WH: Invasion, and I skipped Dreadfleet. I did just go to Maelstrom and buy the last in-stock copy of Dwarf King's Hold using their new voucher - spurred by this very thread. Now I just hope they take less than a month to ship to me. Those guys are either awesome or really poor with their shipping.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 18:21:52
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Using Object Source Lighting
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Grot 6 wrote:Platuan4th wrote:Grot 6 wrote:
This game is lazy, lets jump on the space hulk/ tiled board game bandwagon... With nothing of any originality to it.
I'll let Ed know you think so next time I talk to him, I'm sure he'll appreciate it after all that overtime he put in designing the art for it.
Was releasing the Bodger games back when card games were popular "lazy" too?
Edit: Ed's official response: "Oh no... We also have dice and cards. Doom! And we printed it with ink! And wrote the rules using words!!"
I love Ed so much, I'd have his man babies if we weren't both married.
See, thats the thing, though.
Your pulling out your E peen for a meh game that should be a step up in the gaming world. "I'll let Ed know.... " WTF is that, anyway?
He going to come on over and beat me up, too? Yeah, sure. Whatever.
Tiles, for 55 bucks? You need to take off the heroworship goggles and look at this from MY perspective. A guy that you know... buys healthy amounts of games, otherwise known as a customer.
You need to tell him what a bang up idea this was to spout on this for over a year, then come out with vaporware.
Matter of fact, yes, Call him up and tell him it IS a suck idea, and that the game is Meh. Tell him I said so, and get in touch with me to make it right.
PP is not my pal. If "Ed" can't take a little healthy criticism, then too bad, because Page 5 goes both ways.
THIS game was touted out last year like a "OOOH AHHH!!!" like all of PP stuff is. You come out here with.... that. AND expect it to put on laurals? Then you pull out the E peen " I know this guy" card?
Look at what PP has been doing, and then tell me a box of tiles for 55 bucks is something to dance over.
You are wrong, this is a joke, and you can tell "Ed " to put the minis in it, or even sell the minis FOR it, and call it a day.
You saying PP isn't a minis company is smoking sprue. PP IS a miniatures company with almost a weekly compilation of NEW and evolving gaming MINIATURES...
THIS? This stuff is bland cornflakes.
PP is a better gaming company then to just push something this pale, and think they can get away from it. Its lazy, and the effort is not there to be seen, regardless of how you want to defend this.
I agree completely. I don't feel it matters how close you feel to game designers. "I'll write to my *friend*, [name drop], and see what they have to say about it… they say you're lame." is pretty petty, both on the part of you for the name drop, and said name drop, for responding in a childish way when representing a company (indirectly).
A simple "I disagree, and expect a good product from a company I trust" might have done much more.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 18:53:32
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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scipio.au wrote: just go to Maelstrom and buy the last in-stock copy of Dwarf King's Hold using their new voucher
What new voucher? Why wasn't I informed of this "new voucher"? /desperately seeking a Maelstrom voucher to use on the new Stormwall
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 19:19:57
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Sneaky Kommando
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I actually got to play a game of Level 7 while I was in Seattle this past weekend at Lock & Load. I've played quite a few board games, most of which have been discussed here. I too was a bit disappointed that the game did not include miniatures, but I do have to say the actual artwork used is pretty top notch. According to the seminar with Matt Wilson and Will Schoonover, the decision was made to help reduce the cost and keep it accessible to even casual gamers, not just the hardcore miniature enthusiasts. They also felt, and I have to agree, that ultimately, while the aesthetic of miniatures is pretty nice, they don't ultimately make or break a game. Having played the game, it took me a bit to wrap my head around what I was doing, but when things started to click (mind you, I was getting a crash course in the game at 10pm at night), the game was actually pretty involved. It's not ultra realistic and is very mechanic driven. It is above all else a survival game. You play as Joe-Anybody who is pretty vulnerable, so combat is limited. You cannot win by beating down the clones, hybrids, or guards. Your only means of survival is to accomplish the goals and keep moving. According to Oz, they were shooting for a 50% or so survival rate among the players. Yes, you can possibly stumble upon a gun or a stun baton, but these can be more of a burden and can actually be hurtful if used on a guard, as it increases your Threat and makes you a bigger target. All and all, the game seems solid, but is not for everyone. If you love minis and that's your make-it-or-break-it factor, then push on, there's nothing to see it.
It's also worth noting that Matt Wilson is in the process of designing a while new IP for the world of Level 7, which he hopes will eventually spawn a movie, more games, and currently on the books, yes, a miniature game. All the parts of the IP won't necessarily be tied in to each other, but will revolve around the world's IP and evolving story.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/06/08 19:22:46
Moz:
You: "Hold on, you rammed, that's not a tank shock"
Me: "Ok so what is a ram, lets look at the rules."
Rulebook: "A ram is a special kind of tank shock"
You: "So it's a tank shock until it hits a vehicle, and then it's a ram, not a tank shock, and then it goes back to being a tank shock later!"
Me: "Yeah it doesn't really say any of that in here, how about we just play by what's written in here?" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 19:32:58
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Using Object Source Lighting
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Thanks for the more informed response-- not my cuppa tea, but good to have a better description of what's at least purportedly going on.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 19:35:44
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Mutating Changebringer
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-DE- wrote:Look, people are not "bashing the game" and its mechanics before they play it, they're simply voicing their disappointment with the idea behind the game. There's a difference between the two.
And even if the game turns out to be well designed, there's already plenty of similar games on the market, already out, that are very good too. What could've been a great minis game turns out to be run-of-the-mill board game. Furthermore, it is undeniably worse value in terms of components than other games in the similar price bracket. Is it *really* surprising that some are displeased with how this LEVEL 7 (in caps!) game turned out? It's not creative in terms of the setting, nor the artwork, nor the play style... And let's be honest, would anyone be pumped for this game if it wasn't coming from PP but an indie developer? I very much doubt it. Will this game stand up to Claustrophobia, Arkham Horror, Mansions of Madness, Gears of War, D&D Adventure System, Descent, Doom, Earth Reborn, SDE, Dwarf King's Hold/Pandora, and so on, and so forth? They're all a little pricier games but it's been proven time and again people are willing to pay a little extra for quality components.
To me, it's a missed opportunity on part of PP. Kind of like Monsterpocalypse, really, which is all but dead.
Exactly: this property seemed to hold so much potential, Matt Wilson's blog certainly seemed to be building up to something a lot more interesting then this... thing.
I mean, the issue of value for money is not something that can be so cavalierly discarded the way some people seem to want to. Just look at, to take a random board game with a name attached, the Castle Ravenloft game.
The game components are listed as;
"• 40 plastic heroes and monsters
• 13 sheets of interlocking cardstock dungeon tiles
• 200 encounter and treasure cards
• Rulebook
• Scenario book
• 20-sided die "
For an MSRP of $64.95 you seem to be getting a whole heck of a lot. I mean, in all seriousness, for $10 more then Level 7, you get 40 miniatures. Beyond that, is anyone seriously going to argue that Level 7's production quality is so much better then this?
What justification is there for Level 7's price point? That $55 is really looking quite high compared to what is out there.
Platuan4th wrote:Grot 6 wrote:
Your pulling out your E peen for a meh game that should be a step up in the gaming world. "I'll let Ed know.... " WTF is that, anyway?
I'd have reacted the same way to you saying it about SkeletonKey products, too. It's not about the game, it's about the implications you're putting on a friend. Ed Bourelle's been doing game tiles(mostly for RPGs) for a long time, way longer than he's been working for PP. It's what he was known for in the gaming industry and part of the reason that PP hired him in the first place(his revamping of the MKI league system being another). It's hardly "lazy" for them to make a game that uses that resource in a time when games using tiles are popular.
If that comes across as epeen waving, so be it, but don't let it be said I'm not fiercely loyal to my friends.
I do hope you can appreciate that, however laudable loyalty is in friends and comrades, it's a profoundly unhelpful, in fact counterproductive, characteristic in being a reviewer or evaluator of quality.
If you don't mind me asking, what is the explanation "in-house" for why the game looks so... well, I would say cheap, but more generously, underwhelming? As I illustrate above, comparable games at roughly that price point simply have a lot more material in them. Whether it be miniatures or books or whatever, the contents shown so far for Level 7 seem like they could have an MSRP of $35 or $40 or less.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 20:00:10
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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DaBoss wrote:
It's also worth noting that Matt Wilson is in the process of designing a while new IP for the world of Level 7, which he hopes will eventually spawn a movie, more games, and currently on the books, yes, a miniature game. All the parts of the IP won't necessarily be tied in to each other, but will revolve around the world's IP and evolving story.
Now, will there be a core set of products here, too?
Wilson seems very interested in movies lately; hopefully the miniatures products don't suffer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 21:12:15
Subject: Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide
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I don't know.
It could be an early pre-production quality version ooof the game.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 21:29:36
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Infiltrating Prowler
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cincydooley wrote:DaBoss wrote:
It's also worth noting that Matt Wilson is in the process of designing a while new IP for the world of Level 7, which he hopes will eventually spawn a movie, more games, and currently on the books, yes, a miniature game. All the parts of the IP won't necessarily be tied in to each other, but will revolve around the world's IP and evolving story.
Now, will there be a core set of products here, too?
Wilson seems very interested in movies lately; hopefully the miniatures products don't suffer.
I started to worry about PP when I heard his focus on getting movies made of the PP IP. Really worried when he said he and his wife moved to LA, but still run the company. From some that work at PP, its still a very active running. Have worked at two jobs where this happened and neither worked well. Even with email, cell phones, and teleconferences, managing long distances does not go well. There were too many time the team I was on would be huddled around a speaker phone getting frustrated. It creates a sense of alienation and disconnect among workers and management looses a feel for how the company is running. The mood of the office can't be conveyed electronically.
When you start thinking of yourself as an IP company and not your actual product, it leads to disaster. So PP decided to film a short film based on Level 7. Was probably not cheap. The company has distribution and supply issues and can't meet customer demand and they decide to spend money on a movie. Might be cool, but when you company is butting against current manufacturing and distribution limits, you would be better off spending money on that.
Back to the game, sounds interesting, though it has already been pointed out that the game has a perceived lack of value. People can point to other games around that price point with better perceived value and generated more buzz. As other mentioned, PP is starting to get its share of haters. Though I disagree that all of them are GW fanboys. I know enough people who felt burned by PP over the last several year. There will be people dismissing the game just because it came from PP.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/06/08 22:13:45
Subject: Re:Privateer Press: LEVEL 7 [ESCAPE] info
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Mutating Changebringer
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Uch, I noticed a review of D&D: Lords of Waterdeep boardgame on BoW, and I look at all the stuff in that box, and then see it's $49.99... what are they thinking at PP?
silent25 wrote:cincydooley wrote:DaBoss wrote:
It's also worth noting that Matt Wilson is in the process of designing a while new IP for the world of Level 7, which he hopes will eventually spawn a movie, more games, and currently on the books, yes, a miniature game. All the parts of the IP won't necessarily be tied in to each other, but will revolve around the world's IP and evolving story.
Now, will there be a core set of products here, too?
Wilson seems very interested in movies lately; hopefully the miniatures products don't suffer.
...
When you start thinking of yourself as an IP company and not your actual product, it leads to disaster. So PP decided to film a short film based on Level 7. Was probably not cheap. The company has distribution and supply issues and can't meet customer demand and they decide to spend money on a movie. Might be cool, but when you company is butting against current manufacturing and distribution limits, you would be better off spending money on that.
...
One thing I find very odd about this whole thing is reading Wilson's blog there is just soooo much stuff about LEVEL 7 as a property, but nothing I noticed about it as a game. The thing is... the property is incredibly generic. The degree of difference from Resident Evil and X-Files, to say nothing of any number of earlier titles derivative of those two, seems so tiny I just don't understand what could be motivating his excitement.
silent25 wrote:I started to worry about PP when I heard his focus on getting movies made of the PP IP. Really worried when he said he and his wife moved to LA, but still run the company. From some that work at PP, its still a very active running. Have worked at two jobs where this happened and neither worked well. Even with email, cell phones, and teleconferences, managing long distances does not go well. There were too many time the team I was on would be huddled around a speaker phone getting frustrated. It creates a sense of alienation and disconnect among workers and management looses a feel for how the company is running. The mood of the office can't be conveyed electronically.
I find the whole "moving the wife and I to Hollywood!" thing... just puzzling. I have relatives in the film industry, there are reasons to be in LA... none of which seem to apply to this. I mean, Wilson has his own company, he could very easily be doing this stuff wherever the company is, without the massive increase in living expenses of moving to LA, and separating the boss from the company. You move to LA because you want to be in the Film industry, not because you want to make films as a sideline to your other ventures.
I also notice something very strange: notice the trademark info? "LEVEL 7 is a registered trademark of Matthew D. Wilson, Individual"; That's... an interesting thing for the head of a company to have on a product his company is putting out, IMO. I'm not certain yet what would underlie that decision... but it's certainly something unusual in this context. I mean, if it was the product of a novel he had written individually, that would be par for the course. But this? Hmmmm.....
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