Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I find your lack of miniatures disturbing....

No, seriously. I totally get that it's a price issue, but the minis are what gets me interested in a lof boardgames in the first place. On the other hand, I love FRAG and there are no minis in that game. I'd like to see more of this game, just because it is Privateeer and they haven't dissapointed me so far. I love the HORDES rules.

PhantomViper wrote:

scipio.au wrote: just go to Maelstrom and buy the last in-stock copy of Dwarf King's Hold using their new voucher

What new voucher? Why wasn't I informed of this "new voucher"? /desperately seeking a Maelstrom voucher to use on the new Stormwall

Maelstrom Games - 20% OFF UK RRP FOR AUS, USA, CAN & NZL - PLUS JPN, SGP, THA & KOR!
I assume they lost a HUGE chunk of their business, seemingly never to return with the GW embargo...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Movies? Oh gawd. That's a real line of success stories right there. Not sure why successful games designer-guy thinks his IP is any better or more likely to succeed than any of the dozens of high-profile videogame properties that have failed by not actually being made or by having rubbish made of their IP (which often isn't actually all that good or unique to begin with.)

See, I am underwhelmed, but for what I think it totally viable reasons.

The lack of minis doesn't bother me. Big whoop. I actually wish like other games of this sort that they had flat round tokens with the player image on them rather than the standees. I always thought standees like Lvl 7's looked kinda cheap.

I'm just not sure about where Level 7 is coming from. They (PP) talked about this revolutionary new license they were creating with Level 7, and touted it as being their "next big thing". Then they launch their brand-new IP with a smallish boardgame that is similar in theme to others that have been out before. I just think the flagship title could have been something more engrossing, that's all.

Also keep in mind that this is a community of miniature gamers. The more vocal (almost too vocal) detractors are mainly complaining along the lines of purely miniature game lines.

I'm also a big board gamer, so I am always looking forward to a new board game that has nothing to do with minis. Some of the most fun games I've played have no miniatures in them, or very basic tokens that have a vague shape.

Board games are sold on their gameplay and at least decent art, which this game has. As for the gameplay, we'll have to wait and see, assuming there aren't already playtest reports from lock n' load.

Launching a new IP or product is a big deal. This is the first PP product that hasn't been tied in any way to the Warmachine IP. They're talking it up, but that' just stupid marketing speak that most people just ignore or play down. It's important to not overthink it on our side and make it out to be more than what it is, which is a board game.

And if the board game does well, then we may see other stuff.

Vertrucio wrote:Also keep in mind that this is a community of miniature gamers. The more vocal (almost too vocal) detractors are mainly complaining along the lines of purely miniature game lines.

I'm also a big board gamer, so I am always looking forward to a new board game that has nothing to do with minis. Some of the most fun games I've played have no miniatures in them, or very basic tokens that have a vague shape.

Board games are sold on their gameplay and at least decent art, which this game has. As for the gameplay, we'll have to wait and see, assuming there aren't already playtest reports from lock n' load.

Launching a new IP or product is a big deal. This is the first PP product that hasn't been tied in any way to the Warmachine IP. They're talking it up, but that' just stupid marketing speak that most people just ignore or play down. It's important to not overthink it on our side and make it out to be more than what it is, which is a board game.

And if the board game does well, then we may see other stuff.

Actually I would argue that most boardgames are sold on the name behind a board game... For example most boardgamers would buy anything Uwe Rosenberg put his name on. Followed by reviews over at Boardgame Geek, i've found over the years that me and many of the consistant reviewers there have very similar tastes. Followed by the publishing company, be honest just like me you probably go alittle weak in the knees when a new ZMan or Fantasy Flight game comes out. Followed by game components, more is always better, it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I get less in the box then i did in other games of a similar price.

This is what I see when I look at Level 7. PP isn't known for their boardgames so I'm probably not going to buy it just beacause their name is on it. Looking over at the listing on Boardgame Geek shows that this game is generating very little buzz and hasn't been reviewed by anyone. It's being published by PP so again I really have very little prior experiance with other boardgames they've put out to go on. So in my buying mind right now it would come down to componants, and I just find them lacking when compared to other games currently out.

IMO, the boardgame world is much more competitive then minis world. You have alot more major publishers all pushing competiting games. Its a world where name meens alot and if your just breaking into that world you have to go above and beyond everyone else. I don't feel that PP is doing that in this instance.

So now this game is a movie promotion device?


Yeah. I hold what I got and stand by my first impression, but I wish Matt here would not have gone and went hollywood on such a lame.... sales pitch.


A Warmachine movie? sure, I could see that. THIS?! Hows "Not firggin likely, and We'll get back to you..." sound?


The more it goes on the worse it looks.


Moving on to talk about Zombiepocalypse and zombie Sheldon. WHEATON!!!!

To come back to something I was wondering about above, I looked into it, and the LEVEL 7 is, indeed, completely the property of Matt Wilson as an individual.

As some have pointed out, it's a very broad mark, covering everything an equivalent area to that of Warmachine/Hordes

IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Computer game software; Computer game software downloadable from a global computer network; Computer game software for use with personal computers, home video game consoles used with televisions and arcade-based video game consoles; Digital media, namely, pre-recorded video cassettes, digital video discs, digital versatile discs, downloadable audio and video recordings, DVDs, and high definition digital discs featuring science fiction; Interactive video game programs; Motion picture films about science fiction

IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: Graphic novels; Novels; Printed materials, namely, novels and series of fiction books and short stories featuring scenes and characters based on video games; Role playing game equipment in the nature of game book manuals; Series of fiction works, namely, novels and books

IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Action figures and accessories therefor; Board games; Collectable toy figures; Playing pieces in the nature of miniature action figures and toy model vehicles for use with table top hobby battle games in the nature of battle, war and skirmish games, and fantasy games; Role playing games; Tabletop games; Tabletop hobby battle games in the nature of battle, war and skirmish games, and fantasy games, and playing equipment sold as a unit therewith; Toy action figures; Toy model hobby craft kits for constructing toy model landscapes, scenery, and action figures

IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Entertainment services, namely, providing online video games

So, it's clear that it's at least hoped that this could become a serious property... which, again, begs the question, why is this mark in the name of Wilson only? For reference, the Warmachine and Horde marks are Privateer Press, Inc. I'm honestly curious, because the only reasons I can think of for the head of a company to have the company, essentially, license the property of their own president are... protective. That is, this is the behavior of someone 1) who is trying to protect themself from being screwed over by a big company, 2) trying to insulate an asset from being sold off, 3) trying to maintain creative control, etc.

I can think of several logical reasons for this kind of IP arraignments, but none really seem to square with the relationship I assumed exist at PP.

As an aside, who thought this would be a good way to introduce such a large-scale property? If LEVEL 7 [escape] is meant to be the first part of a large, distinct property, this launch is a horrible way of doing it. We know next to nothing about the setting, except that it's a whole heck of a lot like many existing properties, and.... well, that's kinda it.

From the website;

Welcome to LEVEL 7, a sinister science fiction setting where nefarious conspiracies conceal the government’s collaboration with an unspeakable alien menace. More than a single game, LEVEL 7 is a whole world to be explored through a series of interactive and multimedia experiences.

Okay.... Seriously, on the web portal for this "series of interactive and multimedia experiences" there are a few paragraphs of very generic information, and a link to the page about [escape], with even more generic information.

Catyrpelius wrote:

Vertrucio wrote:Also keep in mind that this is a community of miniature gamers. The more vocal (almost too vocal) detractors are mainly complaining along the lines of purely miniature game lines.

I'm also a big board gamer, so I am always looking forward to a new board game that has nothing to do with minis. Some of the most fun games I've played have no miniatures in them, or very basic tokens that have a vague shape.

Board games are sold on their gameplay and at least decent art, which this game has. As for the gameplay, we'll have to wait and see, assuming there aren't already playtest reports from lock n' load.

Launching a new IP or product is a big deal. This is the first PP product that hasn't been tied in any way to the Warmachine IP. They're talking it up, but that' just stupid marketing speak that most people just ignore or play down. It's important to not overthink it on our side and make it out to be more than what it is, which is a board game.

And if the board game does well, then we may see other stuff.

Actually I would argue that most boardgames are sold on the name behind a board game... For example most boardgamers would buy anything Uwe Rosenberg put his name on. Followed by reviews over at Boardgame Geek, i've found over the years that me and many of the consistant reviewers there have very similar tastes. Followed by the publishing company, be honest just like me you probably go alittle weak in the knees when a new ZMan or Fantasy Flight game comes out. Followed by game components, more is always better, it always leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I get less in the box then i did in other games of a similar price.

This is what I see when I look at Level 7. PP isn't known for their boardgames so I'm probably not going to buy it just beacause their name is on it. Looking over at the listing on Boardgame Geek shows that this game is generating very little buzz and hasn't been reviewed by anyone. It's being published by PP so again I really have very little prior experiance with other boardgames they've put out to go on. So in my buying mind right now it would come down to componants, and I just find them lacking when compared to other games currently out.

IMO, the boardgame world is much more competitive then minis world. You have alot more major publishers all pushing competiting games. Its a world where name meens alot and if your just breaking into that world you have to go above and beyond everyone else. I don't feel that PP is doing that in this instance.

Tying this into what I said above: at my FLGS there are shelves and shelves of boardgames, some I know to be great, some I have never heard of. A dozen, maybe more (maybe many more) makers are competing for space with nothing more then the edge of their box out there. Why make this the leading edge of your new property, this incredibly forgettable thing?

I would love to see a PP style game system in a conventional/Science Fiction setting, which seems to be something in the running. But if that depends on the success of this board game... well, I'm not going to hold my breath for more from L7...

I noticed that too. It's possible that Wilson is thinking about selling the company to someone else but wants to keep his own project, Level 7, well, his. Maybe then invest the money into Level 7. But that's pure speculation. One thing is clear, he's going to market the hell out of this thing, as evidenced by the recent viral "campaign" (more like a fireworks show, but you know...).

If anyone follows PP on facebook, last week they had a contest to win a copy of level 7, if you looked for clues in Wilson's PP insider it took you to this website:

itisallonebiggame.com

at the bottom, it says Copyright 2012 Privateer Press, and that Level 7 is a registered trademark of Matthew D Wilson, I'm not up to date on this copyright stuff, but how can the whole thing be Wilson's if it's also copywritten by PP.

I'm not trying to say that the comments about it being Wilson's property alone, just trying to bring some other facts...

Oh well, I know our pressganger will buy this at GenCon, and we'll probably play it a few times... I'm not a big board gamer (prefer the Deck Building games, but we'll see)

The last few blogs of Wilson were also about making a movie, novels and all that jazz.

Alfndrate wrote:If anyone follows PP on facebook, last week they had a contest to win a copy of level 7, if you looked for clues in Wilson's PP insider it took you to this website:

itisallonebiggame.com

at the bottom, it says Copyright 2012 Privateer Press, and that Level 7 is a registered trademark of Matthew D Wilson, I'm not up to date on this copyright stuff, but how can the whole thing be Wilson's if it's also copywritten by PP.

I'm not trying to say that the comments about it being Wilson's property alone, just trying to bring some other facts...

Oh well, I know our pressganger will buy this at GenCon, and we'll probably play it a few times... I'm not a big board gamer (prefer the Deck Building games, but we'll see)

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say in the italicized part. If you believe that the trademark info is incorrect, I welcome you to look up LEVEL 7 on the US Trademark Electronic Search System.

As for "how can the whole thing be Wilson's if it's also copywritten by PP", the key to this is to understand the difference between copyright and trademark. The copyright notice at the bottom of that page means that the expression there is protected under copyright law to PP. Incidentally, on that page, it's essentially irrelevant. The trademark is registered to Wilson, it's meaningfully his property, not PP's.

Having the trademark in his own name means that, theoretically, he can license the rights to use it to a company other then PP. In fact, it means PP must have some sort of agreement with WIlson... which is kinda the reason I'm so curious, as I can't figure out why someone with a good relationship with the company he founded would go through these steps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

-DE- wrote:I noticed that too. It's possible that Wilson is thinking about selling the company to someone else but wants to keep his own project, Level 7, well, his. Maybe then invest the money into Level 7. But that's pure speculation. One thing is clear, he's going to market the hell out of this thing, as evidenced by the recent viral "campaign" (more like a fireworks show, but you know...).

There was a campaign? I have seen his blog posts about it, but that's about it. What else was there? I'm not exactly detecting a lot of buzz, but perhaps I'm looking in the wrong place.

Grot 6 wrote:So now this game is a movie promotion device?


Yeah. I hold what I got and stand by my first impression, but I wish Matt here would not have gone and went hollywood on such a lame.... sales pitch.


A Warmachine movie? sure, I could see that. THIS?! Hows "Not firggin likely, and We'll get back to you..." sound?


The more it goes on the worse it looks.


Moving on to talk about Zombiepocalypse and zombie Sheldon. WHEATON!!!!

I'm pretty sure the Movie based on this property has already been made: It's either called "The X-Files" or "Paul".

You know what disappoints me more? Why not do a GOOD board game in the WM/H universe. Imagine if PP did a Descent style game and you could use your WM/H minis with it. I'd buy that.

That would sell like hotcakes. Include four of the resin warcasters from the battleboxes, add four variants of existing casters from all four factions and make them exclusive to this game, and I can guarantee you that every single WM fanboy would buy pre-order a copy. Put up a bonus scenario in each issue of No Quarter for the next year and you got a hit for cheap. Why haven't they done so yet? Beats me, maybe they don't like money.

As for the LEVEL 7 campaign, I assume it's just the beginning, that's why I put it in quotation marks, so far it's been more of a dud than a cannonade.

-DE- wrote:That would sell like hotcakes. Include four of the resin warcasters from the battleboxes, add four variants of existing casters from all four factions and make them exclusive to this game, and I can guarantee you that every single WM fanboy would buy pre-order a copy. Put up a bonus scenario in each issue of No Quarter for the next year and you got a hit for cheap. Why haven't they done so yet? Beats me, maybe they don't like money.

.

No kidding, right? Just seems like a strange way to start a property...with a board game that has no real "flash" to it.

Buzzsaw wrote:
As for "how can the whole thing be Wilson's if it's also copywritten by PP", the key to this is to understand the difference between copyright and trademark. The copyright notice at the bottom of that page means that the expression there is protected under copyright law to PP. Incidentally, on that page, it's essentially irrelevant. The trademark is registered to Wilson, it's meaningfully his property, not PP's.

Having the trademark in his own name means that, theoretically, he can license the rights to use it to a company other then PP. In fact, it means PP must have some sort of agreement with WIlson... which is kinda the reason I'm so curious, as I can't figure out why someone with a good relationship with the company he founded would go through these steps.

Well, it means that the IP is his, forever and more. Rick Priestly created a game that made some company in the UK a lot of money over the years, which Rick now gets nothing from. I know the writer of Mass Effect 1 and 2 from another forum. He no longer works at Bioware, and gets no renumeration for the characters and backstory he created. This is the norm with business and IP. It also means that if PP goes public one day, or there's a hostile management takeover, or they get bought out by GW, or the company goes under and has it's assets seized and sold, (hello, 38 Studios/Big Huge Games!) the IP remains (safely) owned by Wilson the individual. It also means when this unique IP is a runaway hit, and the next 10m+ subscriber World of Warcraft MMO game is based on it, Blizzard have to negotiate with Wilson, and not Privateer to licence the rights.

It's quite clever in many ways. Wilson can use PP (which he controls) and PP dollars to finance, market and push the IP (which he's essentially licenced to his own company) and if he strikes it lucky with the IP, he, personally, makes out like a Bandito.

scipio.au wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:
As for "how can the whole thing be Wilson's if it's also copywritten by PP", the key to this is to understand the difference between copyright and trademark. The copyright notice at the bottom of that page means that the expression there is protected under copyright law to PP. Incidentally, on that page, it's essentially irrelevant. The trademark is registered to Wilson, it's meaningfully his property, not PP's.

Having the trademark in his own name means that, theoretically, he can license the rights to use it to a company other then PP. In fact, it means PP must have some sort of agreement with WIlson... which is kinda the reason I'm so curious, as I can't figure out why someone with a good relationship with the company he founded would go through these steps.

Well, it means that the IP is his, forever and more. Rick Priestly created a game that made some company in the UK a lot of money over the years, which Rick now gets nothing from. I know the writer of Mass Effect 1 and 2 from another forum. He no longer works at Bioware, and gets no renumeration for the characters and backstory he created. This is the norm with business and IP. It also means that if PP goes public one day, or there's a hostile management takeover, or they get bought out by GW, or the company goes under and has it's assets seized and sold, (hello, 38 Studios/Big Huge Games!) the IP remains (safely) owned by Wilson the individual. It also means when this unique IP is a runaway hit, and the next 10m+ subscriber World of Warcraft MMO game is based on it, Blizzard have to negotiate with Wilson, and not Privateer to licence the rights.

It's quite clever in many ways. Wilson can use PP (which he controls) and PP dollars to finance, market and push the IP (which he's essentially licenced to his own company) and if he strikes it lucky with the IP, he, personally, makes out like a Bandito.

I think you misunderstand me, the scenarios that you present are precisely the ones I was alluding to. You'll note in all of them there is an adversarial relationship to the parties. Which I find odd. You mention "This is the norm with business and IP", but I can assure you it is not the norm for an idea developed in-house to be the property of the creator, rather then the company. It would be the case for someone that brought an existing IP to a company.

The thing is, Matt Wilson is Privateer Press; he owns it. He's not just licensing his IP to a company, he's licensing his IP from himself to himself.

Again, don't misunderstand me, I am well aware that this insulates him from troubles with PP. But why?

Insulating yourself from risk is a serious step to take, and it tells us... something. But what?

Is he so convinced this RE retread is a goldmine that he wants to be able to spin it off personally?

Is PP about to go public and he wants to become a minority holder?

Is there management strife?

Speculation everywhere!

Re-read my post again, friend. I said that the norm for what is essentially work for hire to remain with the company, not the creator.
He might own PP, but he isn't PP. Major differences there. ever heard of Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone? They used to own a company, too.
It tells us nothing specific, but it means that if he were to one day sell PP or take it public, that he will retain control of the new IP. It tells us nothing short-term, it's likely merely an insurance policy - and one that he's regretting not doing with WarmaHordes.

In fact, it needs no speculation. if you stop to think.

scipio.au wrote:Re-read my post again, friend. I said that the norm for what is essentially work for hire to remain with the company, not the creator.
He might own PP, but he isn't PP. Major differences there. ever heard of Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone? They used to own a company, too.
It tells us nothing specific, but it means that if he were to one day sell PP or take it public, that he will retain control of the new IP. It tells us nothing short-term, it's likely merely an insurance policy - and one that he's regretting not doing with WarmaHordes.

In fact, it needs no speculation. if you stop to think.

Yeah, not to be blunt, but as I am an IP attorney, let me put this as gently as I can: this is a very odd thing to happen. What you are saying isn't wrong, it's just irrelevant to what I'm asking.

In all seriousness, you don't seem to be quite aware of the intricacies involved here, of fiduciary responsibilities and conflicts of interest. I don't know what state PP is incorporated in, but it strikes me as very, very odd for the "Chief Creative Officer/Founder/Owner" to have an individual, proprietary interest in a given product. The legal ramifications, should PP ever be sold would be... complex, let's say.

Put another way, you'll notice that the games of Steve Jackson Games (I presume you meant a different Steve Jackson, but it jogged my memory) are the IP of Steve Jackson Games, not Steve Jackson personally.

I have the feeling this is going to play out over time, since it seems quite fact specific.

I imagine that the plan is to build Level 7 into a huge cross-media brand using PP resources and maintaining the ability to sell off or take PP public while retaining ownership to this Star-Wars-busting cross-media juggernaught of an IP.

Like I said, several posts up, and even you speculated:

Buzzsaw wrote:
Is he so convinced this RE retread is a goldmine that he wants to be able to spin it off personally?

scipio.au wrote:I imagine that the plan is to build Level 7 into a huge cross-media brand using PP resources and maintaining the ability to sell off or take PP public while retaining ownership to this Star-Wars-busting cross-media juggernaught of an IP.

Oh sweet Christmas promise me this is sarcasm. Please.

I don't know any secrets, but my cynical side makes me think this might well be the case.

scipio.au wrote:I don't know any secrets, but my cynical side makes me think this might well be the case.

Yes like all the comic start-up that wanted to be like Image/DC/Marvel in the 90's.

Yes like all the kid's cartoons/CCG's that wanted to be like Pokemon in the 00's.

Yes like all the young adult novels that wanted to be like Harry Potter in the 10's.

All complete successes. All everyday names. Oh wait.....

Something of a preview: http://privateerpress.com/insider-6-11-2012

So is it just me or do those tiles remind me alot of Twilight Creations, Zombies!!!

I'll say it again this would have my attention if it was at the $35 price point...

Is it just me, or is the image provided...


Kinda... busy? I hate to pulp this horse, but if the pieces are meant to be clustered that tightly together, then minis really seem like a better solution then the card/standee system they seem to have. From a lot of angles it looks like you'd have to pick things up to see what's behind things and so on.

Quite apart from the issue of "minis make for a better value" (however true that may be), aesthetically this just doesn't look all that nice.

So, as I stated a page or so back, I was able to actually play the game while in Seattle a little while back. I thought I'd give a break down of exactly how the game works in the hopes that everyone can be more informed. Here it goes. Sorry if it's long and a bit disjointed, as most of this is based off my bad memory and 36 straight hours of Red Bulls and war gaming.

One to four players take on the role of four regular people who are trapped in an underground facility, trying to make their way from the seventh level to the surface. Each level is a separate scenario that has a unique objective and mechanic as to how to reach the elevator to the next level.

Player stats are divided as follows. Two movement, two brains, two fists, one shield, and four permanent life points. They also have a fear tracker that counts up to ten. I'll go into each now. The movement is exactly that, how far you can move in tile spaces. Brains and fists are used to accomplish tasks such as combat and event challenges. The number indicates the base number of dice you can use to try and accomplish the task. This can be boosted by other means. Your life points indicate the amount of Adrenaline cards you may have at any one time which also counts as your temporary life points. The fear tracker goes from calm to scared, giving bonuses and or hindering you accordingly. If you are calm, you gain more brains to use in challenges, but are less effective in combat and move slower, while vice versa, when you are scared, you get more fists and move more, but you don't get bonus brains. Your character also starts with two trait cards that augment your person further, such as Zen Master which allows you to move your Fear Track up or down at the beginning of your turn, or Linebacker which gives you bonus to bull rushing opponents.

The dice in the game are much like the FF game dice. Three sides have one of each symbol; brain, foot, and fist. Each other side has a pair of those symbols. So, if you need to take a brain challenge, you figure out how many dice you are allotted by getting your base 2 plus any you get as bonus because of your fear tracker being close to calm. Some trait cards, mentioned above, also give you inherent bonuses to brain or physically challenges, so you count these too. You can also spend your Adrenaline cards, which I'll discuss now.

Adrenaline cards are there to give bonuses, but also count as your temporary hit points. Each card has three components. A simple trade deal, which indicates how much fear you either gain or lose on your Fear Track and how many dice you get bonus for a brain or fist challenge. The second part is a trade off as well, but more context specific, such as turning in to make a single guard not move that turn or reroll a single challenge, etc. The third effect is universal, which allows you too discard it to more your Fear Tracker up or down at any time. The issue is, if you use too many of your cards, you leave yourself vulnerable, since as said earlier, the amount of adrenaline cards you have is how many hits you can take before being sent off the board. You can ever only have as many cards as your current Permanent Life amount. Each time you are sent off board, this number goes down by one, so you become weakened each time until you die entirely.

Enemies are broken into two (three really) categories. The Clones and the Guards. Clones are attracted to people with high fear count, so during any Clone activation, they will gravitate towards the person with the highest Fear level, so players will sometimes use adrenaline cards to lower their own fear so the Clones will target someone else. Guards on the other hand are attracted by the person with the most Threat. Whenever you attack a guard or are in the area with a guard carrying any sort of weapon, you gain Threat. The only way to lose Threat is to leave the board by losing all your adrenaline cards in combat. When you do, you lose one threat. Clones and Guards do attack each other, as Clones are assumed to have 3 Threat always and Guards always have 3 Fear. There is a third enemy, and those are Hybrids. They are basically super clones and are nearly impossible to stop in combat and best avoided entirely.

The game's combat system is as follows. In order to attack a monster, you must make a fist dice roll. To take down any creature, you need to roll a total of three fists any any number of dice you are allowed. Any number exceeding three will begin to kill enemies off the board, while rolling only three will only knock a single model down. When an enemy attacks a player, they roll only three dice and count the number of fists. The enemy adds one die to the roll for every extra like enemy on the same tile. The player then sees how many shields they can muster. Some adrenaline cards give shields, which each shield blocks a single fist. As noted above, each player automatically has one shield. Each fist exceeding the player's shields will force the player to discard that many adrenaline cards. If this number exceeds the number of cards they have, the player is knocked out and removed from the board as described above. Weapons typically give extra dice for combat purposes.

And now, board movement. When a player enters an undiscovered area, they pull a map tile and place it as legally as possible (connecting doorways, etc.) Tiles are broken into three types, Fear, Security, and Facility. Next, the player draws an event card. The card is divided into three areas. First is the spawn, which tells you what enemy spawns if any. Clones spawn on the closest Fear tiles and Guards spawn on the closest Security tile. Next, the event happens, which typically takes the form of some cinematic challenge. The event chosen is the one matching the type of tile you drew the event on. Some tiles, which I forgot what they are called, always produce an event when they are entered. Other than that, events only occur when you discover a new area. Finally, the last part of the event card is enemy movement, which is a mix between Clones and/or Guards or no enemy action at all. All enemies, when they are supposed to, move a single move towards their preferred target.

Movement is pretty straight forward except for vents. Most tiles have a vent along the perimeter which can be interconnected by the players placing them. Some tiles have ducts which are entry points to these vents. Ducts allow instantaneous movement between duct areas by both players and enemies, so players must keep this in mind when setting up.

The finally mechanic is Lockdown. During the scenario, some event, whether because of success or failure will initiate the Lockdown of the level. This usually indicates a countdown until the players are locked in the level and fail the mission. One way to initiate Lockdown is by the players accumulating too much Threat. Once all the Threat tokens are gone, Lockdown begins and the clock starts ticking.

All and all, I really did find the game a whole lot of fun, and I do consider myself a board game freak. Yes, the game may lack the polish we are all used to with FF games, but I'd say it's worth trying before you bash it. This is not a combat based game, nor is it really all that scary really. In the long run, it was great because of the semi-cooperative nature of it and it's unique design gave it a rich challenge. The final product should be a lot of fun.

DaBoss, I must say you've piqued my interest. I have to ask though, is the board really as cluttered during play as the above image indicates??

cincydooley wrote:DaBoss, I must say you've piqued my interest. I have to ask though, is the board really as cluttered during play as the above image indicates??

Sadly, this is the biggest gripe I had with the game. The map tiles are pretty dinky and really are a bit hard to tell apart. The standies in comparison are pretty large and do tend to clutter things up a bit. The game could easily benefit from either shrinking the standies, replacing them with some sort of token, or increasing the size of the tiles, although this last option seems the most unlikely as we were playing on a 4x4 foot table and we filled up nearly the whole thing with map tiles. That, and it sort of has the Munchkin Quest type of problem. Since most standies will basically move and act in unison, they start to clump together. The game does have a population controller, as tiles can only have two or three of any type of enemy at a time and each scenario has a finite number of enemy types that can be on the board at any one time.

DaBoss: Did it look like that board was final production or a mock-up?

malfred wrote:DaBoss: Did it look like that board was final production or a mock-up?

Will Schoonover, I think who is the lead designer of the game, wasn't able to get a working prototype available from the factory in time, so he actually printed the whole thing on card stock for the event, the trooper, but that the scale is almost 100% what we saw there, just on thicker board of course.