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vossyvo wrote:Can you move run then snapfire?

As far as we know right now, you cannot run and Snap Fire.

Currently my idea is to continue my current list of 1-2 blob squads and then bring some Sisters as allies. Probably either Celestine (or Cannoness), a squad of 10 sisters with 2 Meltaguns, and a 10 woman Dominion squad with 4 meltaguns assuming the rumor of 1HQ+1Troop opens one more FA slot. What I am curious to know is if I can put them in my valkyries because they would most likely be replacing my SWSs and veterans I currently employ in my valks.

Other than for fluff reasons, I think this list brings a lot of AP1 to the table with a 3+ armor save compared to the 5+ of vets, and I hear Celestine can just be a to deal with. Other than that my tactics won't change too drastically. I'll still field some vehicles as chimeras generally don't survive enough shooting to suffer up to 3 hull points anyway if I understand the way hull points will work correctly. The ability to move and shoot full range is a gift from the heavens however. That just makes FRFSRF all the more awesome! I will most likely run the blobs with plasma now since taking melta is just kinda pointless now in a blob. The range difference just won't synergize well I think, and I feel that plasma will do wonders with the ability to move and then shoot full distance.

In addition to that, I think the ability to snap fire with a heavy weapon despite moving the previous turn will cause a rise in the amount of heavy bolters we may see in infantry squads. You figure at BS1 you want saturation more than any actual ability to ignore armor and at 3 shots that are Str 5 you increase your chances of hitting and wounding.

Also what is the word on grenades? Do we know for sure they can be thrown? If so, 30-men with krak grenades could become pretty scary pretty fast.

Bolters I still dont see much of an increase in. Yes, you want saturation with BS1, something guard players know with BS3, but Bolters are still just eh. I think autocannons would still be better, with 2-3 of them in each blob.

I really like the idea of adding SoB's. Not just to give them a chance on the table, but also because it is super fluffy.

Something that was mentioned elsewhere is the ability to ally with your own army, Ig with Ig and the 2nd FoC. So you now will have the potential of 7 heavy slots in 2K as well as 7 Fast. Making Air Cav lists more viable as well as bringing 7 hydras or 7 basilisks.

The current word on grenades is a unit can only throw one grenade up to 8" per shooting phase so a blob only tosses one grenade. The other guys shoot their weapons.

A frag grenade is blast, S3, AP - so not much point using one unless your enemies are close together.

A krak grenade affects a single model. It is rumored as S6, AP4 so it might be better than rapid firing a lasrifle versus high toughness enemies. MEQ/TEQ will still get their armor saves. It will cause ID on T3 models so it is helpful versus DE who have FNP. And since it is not a blast weapon you may get to Snap Fire it.

Hmm, if allies alters the FOC that brings up another question: how do squadrons work? Not that I'd ever get around to doing it but fielding an ungodly amount of Leman Russes just sounds fun. Especially with the removal of half strength on scattered blasts off vehicles.

now what i'm wondering about, as someone who's never actually played tabletop yet but has a decent amount of imperial guard tanks sitting around....
I wonder what this new edition will mean for a FW armoured company list, I was considering building one of those.... any idea if that'd still be viable?

That fellow 'Rattman' has the rulebook and was answering questions in the news and rumours thread. He said flyers in zoom mode can't be targeted (or even hit) with blast and template weapons, so I guess that puts a dent in the plan to defend against flyer armies with massed indirect ordnance. You'll need the Hydra batteries and your own flyers.

Joey wrote:It's confirmed by the dude with the rulebook on reddit that a roll to hit of 6 by snipers means they direct the wound. Even with a 4+ "Look out Sir!" roll for commissars, blob guard are going to be in serious doo-doo against sniper armies.

Sniper armies? Not many of them around really, most people take maybe one unit of snipers and I don't see people suddenly stocking up on them just because there is a chance that they might face one army that could potentially be hit hard by sniping if a lot of rolls are made and several saves not made.

WhiteWolf01 wrote:Hmm, if allies alters the FOC that brings up another question: how do squadrons work? Not that I'd ever get around to doing it but fielding an ungodly amount of Leman Russes just sounds fun. Especially with the removal of half strength on scattered blasts off vehicles.

Apparently squadrons are now "tougher", but you can have 6 Russes at >2000 points anyway,so i don't get why you'd need more anyway.

Ignatius wrote:Nothing. I'm not going to change a thing. I play guard and use the units I do purely for the fun of it. Even in tournaments. I've even won a couple just by throwing everyone off so badbly they couldn't compensate.

and the French army tried to use cavalry in WWII.

But, to each thier own... I can respect that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Joey wrote:

WhiteWolf01 wrote:Hmm, if allies alters the FOC that brings up another question: how do squadrons work? Not that I'd ever get around to doing it but fielding an ungodly amount of Leman Russes just sounds fun. Especially with the removal of half strength on scattered blasts off vehicles.

Apparently squadrons are now "tougher", but you can have 6 Russes at >2000 points anyway,so i don't get why you'd need more anyway.

You can have 9 under 5th rules if the points worked out. I wonder what makes squadrons stonger in 6th(read in WD)? Anywho, the same full str templates your shooting are coming back at our Russes!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WhiteWolf01 wrote:Currently my idea is to continue my current list of 1-2 blob squads and then bring some Sisters as allies. Probably either Celestine (or Cannoness), a squad of 10 sisters with 2 Meltaguns, and a 10 woman Dominion squad with 4 meltaguns assuming the rumor of 1HQ+1Troop opens one more FA slot. What I am curious to know is if I can put them in my valkyries because they would most likely be replacing my SWSs and veterans I currently employ in my valks.

Other than for fluff reasons, I think this list brings a lot of AP1 to the table with a 3+ armor save compared to the 5+ of vets, and I hear Celestine can just be a to deal with. Other than that my tactics won't change too drastically. I'll still field some vehicles as chimeras generally don't survive enough shooting to suffer up to 3 hull points anyway if I understand the way hull points will work correctly. The ability to move and shoot full range is a gift from the heavens however. That just makes FRFSRF all the more awesome! I will most likely run the blobs with plasma now since taking melta is just kinda pointless now in a blob. The range difference just won't synergize well I think, and I feel that plasma will do wonders with the ability to move and then shoot full distance.

In addition to that, I think the ability to snap fire with a heavy weapon despite moving the previous turn will cause a rise in the amount of heavy bolters we may see in infantry squads. You figure at BS1 you want saturation more than any actual ability to ignore armor and at 3 shots that are Str 5 you increase your chances of hitting and wounding.

Also what is the word on grenades? Do we know for sure they can be thrown? If so, 30-men with krak grenades could become pretty scary pretty fast.

Aye, I'm thinking infintry guard with HWTs and some heavies with meched up Sisters as allies. hmmm...

jwhitehead333 wrote:You could also get 5 ratlings for 50pts. They have better BS, 5 of them have snipers rather then 3 and a +1 to any cover saves. I think I would prefer ratlings over a SWS.

True, but ratlings can't hold objectives (plus I don't like the models).

edbradders wrote:

jwhitehead333 wrote:You could also get 5 ratlings for 50pts. They have better BS, 5 of them have snipers rather then 3 and a +1 to any cover saves. I think I would prefer ratlings over a SWS.

True, but ratlings can't hold objectives (plus I don't like the models).

Just model guardsmen with sniper rifles and say they are a specialized group of marksmen count-as ratlings, no?

WhiteWolf01 wrote:

edbradders wrote:

jwhitehead333 wrote:You could also get 5 ratlings for 50pts. They have better BS, 5 of them have snipers rather then 3 and a +1 to any cover saves. I think I would prefer ratlings over a SWS.

True, but ratlings can't hold objectives (plus I don't like the models).

Just model guardsmen with sniper rifles and say they are a specialized group of marksmen count-as ratlings, no?

I'm thinking about taking a SM Librarian and a five man sniper scout squad as my allied unit. While, scouts are BS3 (the sergeant is BS4), they have a much higher LD than Ratlings. If you want the extra cover save, take camo cloaks too.

Tactics should always change when a new edition comes out. You need to adapt, evolve, and overcome!

The Pask + Vanquisher combo is pretty nasty with AP2 getting a buff. Pask shooting a Lascannon and VBC without moving makes any exposed armor almost always sans 2 hull points and potentially dead.

Bastion Breacher shells are insanely deadly now, hell even the Devil Dog is quite viable with a 12" 2D6 Melta now that templates aren't hosed.

I wonder if snapfire and sniper will be allowed in the same roll. If so, in addition to other changes, it might just be enough to make SWS snipers worth it.

-cost only 50 points
-scoring unit
-long range, allows steady, if mild damage to enemy infantry
-can occasionally get lucky and snipe someone important
-can move on objectives, and retain sniping ability
-6 wounds isn't terrible for a cheap squad that is probably outside of 24".

I'm not sure if all this stuff together would be enough to justify their inclusion. Maybe it would at least be enough to prevent them from being dead weight.

kronk wrote:Tactics should always change when a new edition comes out. You need to adapt, evolve, and overcome!

Brad, that sounds like the motto for a Genestealers Cult.

Stormrider wrote:The Pask + Vanquisher combo is pretty nasty with AP2 getting a buff. Pask shooting a Lascannon and VBC without moving makes any exposed armor almost always sans 2 hull points and potentially dead.

Bastion Breacher shells are insanely deadly now, hell even the Devil Dog is quite viable with a 12" 2D6 Melta now that templates aren't hosed.

There are lots of fun possibilities now. I've got a Pask and a Vanquisher so this may get tested at some point. I'm not planning to try it right away though. If you do, tell us how it played in your games.

Biophysical wrote:I wonder if snapfire and sniper will be allowed in the same roll. If so, in addition to other changes, it might just be enough to make SWS snipers worth it.

-cost only 50 points
-scoring unit
-long range, allows steady, if mild damage to enemy infantry
-can occasionally get lucky and snipe someone important
-can move on objectives, and retain sniping ability
-6 wounds isn't terrible for a cheap squad that is probably outside of 24".

I'm not sure if all this stuff together would be enough to justify their inclusion. Maybe it would at least be enough to prevent them from being dead weight.

I'm going with three SWS but not as snipers. That is interesting though if they can get Sniper called shots during Snap Fire. Moving and shooting 36" with a scoped sniper rifle...sounds like Halo 2 again.

CoD more like...

JB wrote:

kronk wrote:Tactics should always change when a new edition comes out. You need to adapt, evolve, and overcome!

Brad, that sounds like the motto for a Genestealers Cult.

No, no. That would be Adapt, evolve, and Nom-Nom-Nom....

edbradders wrote:I play an Elysian airborne army with all fast attack slots full of valkyries and vendettas with hydras as heavy support so I'm not gonna change my army at all. This new "flyers" thing should make my army a bit better by the sounds of it

Glad to see another Elysian General.
The only change that I plan on making counting is all my shotgun vets as beings equipped with slugs/lasguns.
With the Overwatch rules, there is almost no reason to assault anymore.

Also, I was debating between using a PF or PW as an assault deterrent for my vanguard squads. With the recent changes to power swords and power axes, I see no real reason to not take Power Fists.
Swords are only AP3 as opposed to AP2
Axes are only +2S@I1 when fists are +3S@I1 for 5pts more.
If I get lucky, I can ID some Eldar, SoB, or Guard.

Wait Wait Wait, PWs are AP3 now?

Yep confirmed from the book here:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2012/06/pics-pages-from-rulebook-force-weapons.html

IHateNids wrote:Wait Wait Wait, PWs are AP3 now?

That's the story from nearly every source. It changes the close combat meta in a big way.

It doesn't hurt us as much as it did the Eldar and Dark Eldar. They have very few counters for Terminators and artificer armor.

We have power fists, tons of plasma, lascannons galore, melta, Medusas, Demolishers, and demo charges.

No power weapons? No problem.

I hope they start spamming terminators and marines in artificer armor instead of vehicles.

JB wrote:

kronk wrote:Tactics should always change when a new edition comes out. You need to adapt, evolve, and overcome!

Brad, that sounds like the motto for a Genestealers Cult.

Stormrider wrote:The Pask + Vanquisher combo is pretty nasty with AP2 getting a buff. Pask shooting a Lascannon and VBC without moving makes any exposed armor almost always sans 2 hull points and potentially dead.

Bastion Breacher shells are insanely deadly now, hell even the Devil Dog is quite viable with a 12" 2D6 Melta now that templates aren't hosed.

There are lots of fun possibilities now. I've got a Pask and a Vanquisher so this may get tested at some point. I'm not planning to try it right away though. If you do, tell us how it played in your games.

Biophysical wrote:I wonder if snapfire and sniper will be allowed in the same roll. If so, in addition to other changes, it might just be enough to make SWS snipers worth it.

-cost only 50 points
-scoring unit
-long range, allows steady, if mild damage to enemy infantry
-can occasionally get lucky and snipe someone important
-can move on objectives, and retain sniping ability
-6 wounds isn't terrible for a cheap squad that is probably outside of 24".

I'm not sure if all this stuff together would be enough to justify their inclusion. Maybe it would at least be enough to prevent them from being dead weight.

I'm going with three SWS but not as snipers. That is interesting though if they can get Sniper called shots during Snap Fire. Moving and shooting 36" with a scoped sniper rifle...sounds like Halo 2 again.

I've used a Paskquisher quite a bit in 5th with pretty good success overall. He rarely just out and out whiffs and he's surprisingly effective with HB sponsons (I would contend moreso now) at glancing vehicles to death. His biggest flaw is having to stay still. Which, when camped up in the right spot, he owns a battlefield (or is a great area denial choice).

S8+1 (for crack shot) + 2D6 averages a 15 for penetration. At the absolute lowest performance you'll get an 10 (assuming you moved him).

Also, forgot to add, but from the Reddit AMA guy, sniper have apparently lost rending. They really don't seem like much of a threat anymore.

acekevin8412 wrote:Also, forgot to add, but from the Reddit AMA guy, sniper have apparently lost rending. They really don't seem like much of a threat anymore.

Their new threat is called shots when they roll a 6 to hit. I don't expect it to be super effective but it will make your opponent nervous and that is never a bad thing.

WhiteWolf01 wrote:

edbradders wrote:

jwhitehead333 wrote:You could also get 5 ratlings for 50pts. They have better BS, 5 of them have snipers rather then 3 and a +1 to any cover saves. I think I would prefer ratlings over a SWS.

True, but ratlings can't hold objectives (plus I don't like the models).

Just model guardsmen with sniper rifles and say they are a specialized group of marksmen count-as ratlings, no?

Didn't think of that, good idea think I'll do that.

I have to retract my statement, I guess I read it wrong, but they still have rending.
As per the Reddit guy:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/vj64o/im_sitting_here_with_a_new_40k_rulebook_ama/c55pnkf

Stormrider wrote:The Pask + Vanquisher combo is pretty nasty with AP2 getting a buff. Pask shooting a Lascannon and VBC without moving makes any exposed armor almost always sans 2 hull points and potentially dead.

Bastion Breacher shells are insanely deadly now, hell even the Devil Dog is quite viable with a 12" 2D6 Melta now that templates aren't hosed.

Actually yeah, the devil dog sounds like a legit unit to field now. Looks like it went from a casual unit to semi-competitive now. Hellhound will be as good as ever. Do we know what extra armor does yet? Since glances only cause a loss of hull points maybe it grants a save against glances now?

WhiteWolf01 wrote:

Stormrider wrote:The Pask + Vanquisher combo is pretty nasty with AP2 getting a buff. Pask shooting a Lascannon and VBC without moving makes any exposed armor almost always sans 2 hull points and potentially dead.

Bastion Breacher shells are insanely deadly now, hell even the Devil Dog is quite viable with a 12" 2D6 Melta now that templates aren't hosed.

Actually yeah, the devil dog sounds like a legit unit to field now. Looks like it went from a casual unit to semi-competitive now. Hellhound will be as good as ever. Do we know what extra armor does yet? Since glances only cause a loss of hull points maybe it grants a save against glances now?

Hard to say, I hope so because that'll make Vendettas/Valkyries more resilient.