Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Just had the pleasure of fighting Tau. I normally table my Tau opponent by turn 3, but this time under 6th it was the other way round.

Shield drones and the new shooting rules make your units insanely survivable.

Broadsides with markerlight support on light vehicles - 2s to hit, 2s to penetrate, no cover saves, 50% chance of an Explode result?!?! Utterly devastating to my 5th ed. mechanised list. And the fantastic range and blacksun filter is just wicked for a substantial portion of the battle setups.

I bet you guys are laughing your heads off, and you've waited long enough to do so!

@Sethorly- We are better off. It will still take a bit to re-tool for the new edition because we have to see how the meta developes.

We have general ideas but it will still take time.

Just an FYI, Necrons in Hammer and Anvil deployment are still almost an auto win against Tau.

Played them in a 6th ed game and while it was better than playing against them in 5th. They still have too many tricks to use against the normal Tau list. Because of the Necrons, I'm bringing my Kroot out of retirement.

Figure that I will strip the necron lords down to one wound and then assault them. Doing this, means that they don't get back up if you have enough models to keep him from popping up within 3" of where you kill him. Remember, He can't pop back up within 1 inch of an enemy unit.

"The entries seem contradictory at first glance but they really don't deviate in a significant manner that I can tell. "

One bit says the target can count the benefits of cover they are in or touching. That to me reads if standing next to a wall get a LOS based cover. Another section says the opposite and that you only receive cover that is not based on LOS so touching something does not work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sethorly wrote:
Broadsides with markerlight support on light vehicles - 2s to hit, 2s to penetrate, no cover saves, 50% chance of an Explode result?!?! Utterly devastating to my 5th ed. mechanised list. And the fantastic range and blacksun filter is just wicked for a substantial portion of the battle setups.

How is that any different from 5th? If anything it’s a little harder for Tau now as vehicles get cover much easier cover or auto cover for moving skimmers so you have to use marker light’s more than before.

Pottsey wrote:

focusedfire wrote:The entries seem contradictory at first glance but they really don't deviate in a significant manner that I can tell.

One bit says the target can count the benefits of cover they are in or touching. That to me reads if standing next to a wall get a LOS based cover. Another section says the opposite and that you only receive cover that is not based on LOS so touching something does not work.

It seem that way but the faq/errate is talking about area terrain, which gives cover that is no based on line of sight. Area terrain grants cover due to being what it is. If you are in area terrain and I can clearly see the whole unit, your unit still gets the benefit of cover that is equal to whatever was agreed upon for the terrain at the beginning to the game.

Hope this explanation clears it up a bit.

Slightly OT, but I think you've just invented a potential meme with you latest update FF; shnap shot. Say it in a Sean Connery Bond accent, it's awesome. I will be using this in all future games

Just thought i'd put this about the stealth teams mentioned previously -


Shas’el /w VRS, Plasma Rifle, Burst Cannon, HW MT, HW BSF, 2x Gun Drone 116

6x Stealth Suits /w 12x Gun Drone + TL /w ML 315

This set up works as a "kan wall" as well as killing on average 7.6 Marines a turn, which is quite good. Plenty of cannon fodder (drones) in the front, and keeps your HQ safe from "Slay the Warlord!" hate
Now that Hit and Run gives it to the unit, and Night Vision is given to the unit, the BSF and Vectored Retro Thrusters should (hope) give the whole squad H&R as well as Night Vision, seeing as night fighting is back, and hopefully in most games

Also if you get flanked you have 14 Gun drones worth of Look out sir

Thoughts?

Orkaswampa wrote:Just thought i'd put this about the stealth teams mentioned previously -


Shas’el /w VRS, Plasma Rifle, Burst Cannon, HW MT, HW BSF, 2x Gun Drone 116

6x Stealth Suits /w 12x Gun Drone + TL /w ML 315

This set up works as a "kan wall" as well as killing on average 7.6 Marines a turn, which is quite good. Plenty of cannon fodder (drones) in the front, and keeps your HQ safe from "Slay the Warlord!" hate
Now that Hit and Run gives it to the unit, and Night Vision is given to the unit, the BSF and Vectored Retro Thrusters should (hope) give the whole squad H&R as well as Night Vision, seeing as night fighting is back, and hopefully in most games

Also if you get flanked you have 14 Gun drones worth of Look out sir

Thoughts?

Well there's no point in the Target Lock as it doesn't do anything any more.

Personally I was thinking on going down the short range weapon route for the Shas'el with stealth team. Fusion blaster and burst cannon or flamer, just so that his weapons match what the stealth suits can carry in terms of range and preferred targets. I don't know what the board think of that idea?

Also I was considering throwing in at least one Marker drone; I know they're expensive, but the self-contained ability for the unit to strip cover saves could be very useful, particularly if combined with Focus Fire.

The 6 stealth/12 drone unit does look excellent however I really like the idea of infiltrating them - obv without shasel. This is consistent with the fluff, and means belting out 30 s5 shots from turn 1 - coupled with cover going to 5+ and wound allocation, I am excited about these guys vs hordes esp ig blob.

Stealth Suits have 3+ / 4+ Cover in the open meaning they are 2+ in basically any terrain - The drones also get Shrouded and Stealth.

@A town called malus - It was meant to be Team Leader not Target Lock

@jadenim - I chose the plasma rifle over the flamer because i dont think they will get into combat and the combatant live (as you can jet pack kite backwards etc) and also because of the punch it will pack, hitting on a 2+ with the squads markerlight, getting a precision shot means pick who dies! Mainly just for a punch on heavy troops, like a wolf guard term in a grey hunter squad.

Fusion blaster might be interesting, having 3 in the squad (if give 2 to them) for anti tank capabilities, as well as the ability to pop a transport and burst cannon the innards to death. Also you could move shas'el out of the squad during the movement phase, shoot Transport A, whilst the squad shoots Squad B, so 2 different targets, and then use assault move to move him back within 2 inches of the squad, meaning he has rejoined it!

@troy - Against an ork mob of 30, this squad is laughing

Jadenim wrote:Personally I was thinking on going down the short range weapon route for the Shas'el with stealth team. Fusion blaster and burst cannon or flamer, just so that his weapons match what the stealth suits can carry in terms of range and preferred targets. I don't know what the board think of that idea?

This^ is good.

My only problem with the Stealthsuits is the cost. I've been looking at a Team of 3 Stealthsuits w/TA + Team leader1 w/FB, TA and 2 Gun drones(MIght have to take Shas'ui to get the Character status?) Then add a Shas'el with Fusion Blaster, Burst cannon, Flamer, HWMT and HWDC with 2 Shield drones.

Comes in at about 294-ish points and becomes your deepstrike unit on missions where needed. Even at this point range Crisis suits might still be better.

with ap2 becoming gold dust and missile pods greatly benefiting from the hull points rules I can see fireknife being even more dominant loadout for crisis teams.

Perusing some batreps the new regroup rules help the low ld armies greatly.. Not only is the 6 inch prohibition gone, and we get to regroup at 25%+.. But our terrible leadership might become incredibly useful in terms of fleeing out of assault range.

Best way to field stealthsuits is to outflank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

5) Drone Controller/Drones- Drones just became much better for Tau teams. They can perform Look out Sir, be placed to where they almost always are the closest model and.....................The new Sweeping Advance rules allow the unit trying to escape to use the highest single initiative in the unit. Drones with their I4, just gave the Tau an even chace of escaping most SM's.

Drones also assume the Type as the model who controls them so if the model is a character the drone would be too.

outflanking the stealth suit squad seems more promising than infiltrating it, especially on Hammer of Wrath deployment, as well as turn 2 Linebreaker

Ok, It hasn't been decided as of yet but, I will comment of the possible "what if" Vectored Thrusters give H&R to units joined by model with the wargear.

Under such a ruling, there are some "Good to borderline broken/ stupid wrong " things that will be able to be done.

1)H&R Vespids-Not truly Stupid wrong broken, but really good to almost broken. Only question would be, "How does the unit move?" As Jet-Pack or as Jump pack?.

2)H&R Kroot- Decent, but not stupid wrong.

3)H&R Farsight- This would be pretty much Stupid Wrong.

4H&R Broadsides- Now THIS would be Stupid Wrong Broken. Two Crisis Commanders. One with Vectored thrusters the other with Iridium armour, 2 Shield drones, Stim injectors and Failsafe Detonator. Both commanders have TL plas or Plas/fusion. Note that one commander could be Farsight and if done then you just put all of the upgrades(Except drones) on the other commander.
Then join to Broadside team of 3(all with drones and plasma rifle upgrade).
Deploy forward and ram them down your opponents throat.

What do you guys think?

One weapon that I feel has a bit more practicality would be the airbursting frag projector. In my first 6th game I had a 'O with it and a CIB fire at a DE wytch squad including an archon with the 2+ invul until failed item. I placed the blast centered on him as we can pick any model, not just the spot that hits the most, and made him roll a save for each wound on the unit. Barrage killing center out can be useful for sniping with out relying on 6's to hit. (FYI he made every save, but it could have worked )

@darb: The blast centre determines whether or not the guys get a save for ordinance weapons. However this does not affect wound allocation - the standard in 6th is to remove the guys closest to the firer first.

In your example several wyches would have to take saves and die before the archon takes the 2+ (unless the archon happened to be closest to your commander, which is the sort of thing we will see alot more of in 6th ed).

I know what you're getting at FF, some of those combinations are rather bonkers, however 5th ed had its share of craziness (using Snikrot to infiltrate Ghazkull leaps to mind).

There will always be ways to break the rules, particularly with a codex as old as Tau's. I guess we just have to try and trust people not to abuse it.

I'd really like them to allow this because the Crisis/stealth combination feels like a really nice counter-assault unit that you can put up in people's face, a bit like the FW hazard suit. They fit the Tau play style by using firepower and manouvrability to win, rather than beating people around the head with pointy sticks

troy_tempest wrote:@darb: The blast centre determines whether or not the guys get a save for ordinance weapons. However this does not affect wound allocation - the standard in 6th is to remove the guys closest to the firer first.

In your example several wyches would have to take saves and die before the archon takes the 2+ (unless the archon happened to be closest to your commander, which is the sort of thing we will see alot more of in 6th ed).

pg34: barrage box, 2nd bullet point, "To determine whether a unit wounded by a barrage weapon is allowed a coversave, and when determining wound allocation, always assume the shot is coming from the center of the blast marker, instead of from the firing model."

I think I can snipe with a BS 5 flying claymore. Logic it dose not follow, but the rules it dose.

The Vectored Retro Thrusters problem, think i might've solved it?

Character Benefits from the Rule, he may not take drones and must be an IC.
He joins a squad during turn one, as he is a single IC/Unit in deployment, because he benefits from this rule so does the squad he joins turn one, as per the rule. The VRS upgrade does not state it doesnt affect others, it only states who can purchase the upgrade.

Problem Solved or?

Orkaswampa wrote:
Character Benefits from the Rule, he may not take drones and must be an IC.

Even that line is not clear. Some read it as IC and Monet without drones can take the gear not that you have to fit both requirements. Thats how I read it kind of like saying firewarriors and pathfinders can take photons you don’t have to be both a firewarriors and pathfinder. So either a IC or a Monet can take the wargear meaning an IC can take drones but the solo none IC suits cannot take drones.
.

focusedfire wrote:

4H&R Broadsides- Now THIS would be Stupid Wrong Broken. Two Crisis Commanders. One with Vectored thrusters the other with Iridium armour, 2 Shield drones, Stim injectors and Failsafe Detonator. Both commanders have TL plas or Plas/fusion. Note that one commander could be Farsight and if done then you just put all of the upgrades(Except drones) on the other commander.
Then join to Broadside team of 3(all with drones and plasma rifle upgrade).
Deploy forward and ram them down your opponents throat.

What do you guys think?

Can Farsight join the Broadsides if he has is blob of bodyguards? Might be better to just take his large blob all with Plasma, Burst Cannons, Multitracker. Second commander with all the other upgrade like you mentioned then ally with eldar and get a Farseer. Here I am not sure if I want to risk rolling on the divination chart or just stick with the eldar powers, foreboding would be wonderful but requires a lucky'ish roll. Prescience would affect CC also.
all guestimate here, In 12 in range you would have 16 plasma shots, 24 Burst Cannon shots, with at least prescience going that’s 12 plasma hits and 18 BC hits? 8ish plasma wounds, and 12ish BC wounds, so 4ish unsaved. Around 12 MEQ kills.
Price of that unit would be crazy though, like 1k points.
a 100 firewarrior would get (in rapid fire range) 200 shots, 100 hits, prescience (they all really couldn't get it but, just for this calculation), 50 more hits, 150, then wounds, 99 wounds, 33 kills. (Without Prescience 22kills)
The fire warrior will get whittled down much faster though... I think.

Even that line is not clear. Some read it as IC and Monet without drones can take the gear not that you have to fit both requirements. Thats how I read it kind of like saying firewarriors and pathfinders can take photons you don’t have to be both a firewarriors and pathfinder. So either a IC or a Monet can take the wargear meaning an IC can take drones but the solo none IC suits cannot take drones.

.




All it does is restrict who takes it, it doesnt say anything about not conferring the rule to others. It doesnt explicitly deny that the rule doesnt move to other models in a squad, it just says that the character benefits from H&R, so it spreads as per the 6th version of H&R.

I think it's safe to have an IC, not taking drones, to take VRS - because that doesnt conflict with the rules of VRS and is legal.
It also does not say that he cannot join a squad and it isnt like ASS where it says that all models must be equipped to use it.

Conclusively just giving an IC the VRS without drones is the best thing to do as that stops confusion due to cruddy gw wording

Can Farsight join the Broadsides if he has is blob of bodyguards? Might be better to just take his large blob all with Plasma, Burst Cannons, Multitracker. Second commander with all the other upgrade like you mentioned then ally with eldar and get a Farseer. Here I am not sure if I want to risk rolling on the divination chart or just stick with the eldar powers, foreboding would be wonderful but requires a lucky'ish roll. Prescience would affect CC also.
all guestimate here, In 12 in range you would have 16 plasma shots, 24 Burst Cannon shots, with at least prescience going that’s 12 plasma hits and 18 BC hits? 8ish plasma wounds, and 12ish BC wounds, so 4ish unsaved. Around 12 MEQ kills.
Price of that unit would be crazy though, like 1k points.
a 100 firewarrior would get (in rapid fire range) 200 shots, 100 hits, prescience (they all really couldn't get it but, just for this calculation), 50 more hits, 150, then wounds, 99 wounds, 33 kills. (Without Prescience 22kills)
The fire warrior will get whittled down much faster though... I think.

keep in mind if you roll on the divination tree you can replace the spell you get with the primaris power. Effectively a free guide from the best psycher in the game. and a lot of psychic defense.

sorry Darb my mistake, you're quite right. So ordinance weapons will literally leave gaping holes in the ranks.. I like!

It's almost as if they are trying to make the game look realistic! But that can't be it.

OK, So I noticed acouple of things upon a more thourough re-read of some os the units.

First, Jet-Packs have a potential rules debate in the wording of the rules. Seems that the 2d6 assault move is optional and that the controlling player can instead-to paraphrase-"Move them the same as in the movement phase."

Next, Jump-Infantry is not quite as nasty as most think. These units can only use their Jump Packs once a player turn. They can be used in the movement phase to move 12" and then assault 2d6 of foot but if they do this they do not get to benefit from the Hammer of Wrath Special rule. They also can not re-roll their Assault move Dice.
Now if they move 6" in the movement phase they can use their Jump Packs in the movement phase. It is at this time that they get the HoW and the re-roll of the 2d6 charge dice.

Finally, Eldar Jetbikes can move up to 48" in a single turn if they Turbo-boost. WOW! They can move in this edition.

You guys let me know if you think my interpretation of these rules is accurate or not.


I will post more later, will begin to throw out some possible lists and the tactics that would go with them.

Dont forget with new terrain density etc, a board with lots and lots of Difficult Terrain screws jump infantry, because ending their move in DT is a Dangerous Test, then when they want to move out its a Dangerous Test, and if you can force them to go into another difficult (tremorstave is god here), they basically kill themselves This applies to OUR jet packs however, so we must be cunning!

focusedfire wrote:First, Jet-Packs have a potential rules debate in the wording of the rules. Seems that the 2d6 assault move is optional and that the controlling player can instead-to paraphrase-"Move them the same as in the movement phase."

While it does say that, I beleive it says that in context of moving them as if they are jumping or staying on the ground. You still have to roll the 2D6 to see how far you move.

Some of the biggest things I've learned so far from actual games:

-AEGIS lines are awesome for survivability, basically giving your firewarriors a 4+ cover and your steath suits 2+ (until they drop barrage weapons on you) as well as protecting you from assaults by non-jump infantry. Assaulting over difficult terrain makes them fight at initative 1, it MAY prove to be a slight help but then again, we're talking about Tau melee

-Zero reasons to not opt for a overwatch, I've stopped assaults from damaged units a few times now, twice finishing the unit off! Just remember, a unit can only overwatch once per turn.

-My stealth suits have been champs, and not yet because of their shroud/stealth. The burst cannons are amazing for just putting down awesome fire and if they try to charge you they have to make it through an onslaught of S5AP5 shots.

I suppose if you think about it, 6 stealth suits is 18 fire warriors worth of S5 AP5 single fire, or 9 Fire Warriors Rapid Fire

So basically by paying slightly more, you forfeit model count, (some shots), and gain massive survivability and manoeuvrability as well as a cheap ML, i think they seem much better than made out when looked at this way. They are basically 18 fire warriors jumping around