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Ministry wrote:

Captain Avatar wrote:

Jadenim wrote:I'd concur with that Tun_Tau, it only excludes ICs from deployment, not moving on, although it will probably be argued over.

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On the tactics front, I think the Strategic Warlord Traits look like the best table for Tau. I think all of the traits on that one fit well with Tau's play style. The command and personal traits look a bit too CC oriented most of the time.

We don't get any psyker powers guys unless they are allies like Eldar or SM so why the comments on what's good for Tau?

Say what??? I never typed any such thing, ...Lies....Lies....They are all Lies, I tell you.
Seriously, please be a little more careful with your quotes. I have no problem being called on stuff I do Type/say....but misquotes can easily derail an entire thread.

Krellnus wrote:I've taken the debate to YMDC
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/459482.page#4482675

I really don’t see how it’s a debate. The rules are clear cut with examples on page 2.

I've been wondering what happens when networked markerlights hit during overwatch-does it increase your overwatch BS in that situation?

It would not for the same reason targetting arrays don't.

Modifiers to stats go:
Multiply
Add
Subtract
Set.

So a suit is BS3, +1 bs from ta (4), then snapshot sets it at 1, therefore, the BS of Overwatch is 1.
Will be the same for markerlights.

Bad news is that Tau have no way of improving their Snap-Shots/Overwatch aside from Twin-linking everything.

Good News is that it looks like we are getting Aun'shi back in the next codex. See pg 281 of the BRB.

Captain Avatar wrote:Bad news is that Tau have no way of improving their Snap-Shots/Overwatch aside from Twin-linking everything.

Good News is that it looks like we are getting Aun'shi back in the next codex. See pg 281 of the BRB.

I never have seen is rules but really love his fluff and I hope he brings Farsight back into the fold.

I have started a thread on whether the Vectored thrusters give the H&R USR to units they join or if they lose it.

The thread is here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/459739.page" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/459739.page

@Tun_Tau: Aun'shi was awesome. Would actually be considered broken as a CC specialist in 5th and 6th ed. Not for his damage output but for his Tarpitting ability. He was WS5 T3 I5 4-5 attacks, had 3 wounds with a 4+ inv save.

He carried a Honour blade that was rending do to his skill and he had the parry ability. The parry ability let him set aside any number of his attacks and for each attack set aside to parry, every enemy model that was attacking had their attacks reduced by one. Note, that its not just the attacks against him but all attacks against the unit also.

I think it would be fairly harsh to rule against the vectored thrusters; besides we need all the help we can get!

Speaking of which, I've just re read the FAQ and it says to replace the crisis suit entry with " Crisis suits are jet pack infantry, as are any drones attached to them", which means they just got full relentless rules Handy if you want to throw a marker drone in there.

One model in a unit confers Night Vision with a single BSF?

I must have missed this - was it in the FAQ?

They always had full relentless rules.
Jump Infantry: Jet Packs in 5th were relentless.
If you want to try and use the ASS argument - all it did was grant Slow and Purposeful, which granted Relentless.

If the Relentless from the ASS works, therefore, the Relentless from being JI:JP worked, therefore, markerdrones with Crisis and Stealth Suits were also relentless.

Nope, just a product of the Night Vision USR; only one model required in a unit to give them the ability.


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@Ovion - that's technically correct, however the old codex description for the XV8 specifically excluded them (and by extension, any drones they took) from using heavy weapons with it.

I believe this was a product of 4th Ed. rules where they jet packs didn't get relentless and they had a codex specific "relentless light". Bizarrely in 5th Stealth suits got full relentless anyway as they didn't have the homebrew rules, they're just jet pack infantry...


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Also the old ASS rules were FAQ'd specifically to exclude attached drones IIRC.


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Grrr, trying to list build here and just noticed that my beloved pathfinders with rail rifles took a spectacular nerf! The loss of target lock hits them pretty bad and because they don't actually have the sniper rule they don't benefit from precision shot. I am not amused...

@ASS discussion
It has been FAQ'd that now broadside teams using their ASS can have the drones remain stationary and fire as normal.
Quite a buff if you give them marker drones.

Jadenim wrote:Nope, just a product of the Night Vision USR; only one model required in a unit to give them the ability.


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@Ovion - that's technically correct, however the old codex description for the XV8 specifically excluded them (and by extension, any drones they took) from using heavy weapons with it.

I believe this was a product of 4th Ed. rules where they jet packs didn't get relentless and they had a codex specific "relentless light". Bizarrely in 5th Stealth suits got full relentless anyway as they didn't have the homebrew rules, they're just jet pack infantry...

Also the old ASS rules were FAQ'd specifically to exclude attached drones IIRC.

The relentless-light didn't apply to drones anyway, so they were straight relentless.
But regardless, if relentless from ASS worked, then so must JI:JP

But hey - either way, Roll on Tau 6th!

Just updated the OP with corrections on rules and a few of my old man dirty tricks listed under the "ON THE TABLE" and "BUILD IDEAS" sections.

Also just added an Alliance Build Ideas section with my first suggestion.

Please from here, feel free to discuss ideas and strategis for builds and game play.

Also, Let me know what you how it is looking or if I have missed anything.

Iridum armor used to reduce the 6" assault move to d6". I guess now it reduced the 2d6" to d6" but it wasn't mentioned in the FAQ unless i missed something.

Luford wrote:Iridum armor used to reduce the 6" assault move to d6". I guess now it reduced the 2d6" to d6" but it wasn't mentioned in the FAQ unless i missed something.

You are correct. I had noted this in another thread but overlooked noting that the Iridium Armour stayed at d6 Assault move in the Tactica list/review.

Have noted such in the OP now. Thanks Luford

I was reading that last night, it says you do a d6 move instead of just moving 6" in the assault phase. Well you don't move a flat 6" anymore, so I'm not sure how it's supposed to work, halve the 2d6 movement perhaps? Having said that, the way I always interpreted it from the fluff was that the extra weight slowed you down, so it was akin to giving you S&P, which in the new edition does not reduce your movement.

To be honest I don't think it's even worth taking to YMDC, as the rule works radically different to the previous edition; I think we need a straight answer from GW as to what (if anything) it does. Roll on FAQ version 1.1!

focusedfire wrote:Please from here, feel free to discuss ideas and strategies for builds and game play.

Also, Let me know what you how it is looking or if I have missed anything.

Ok, when taking Eldar as allies, "Do you think it is best to stick with the Codex Psychic powers or should we take a chance on rolling for the powers?".

If we roll, "Which Discipline, Telepathy or Divination?

I'm leaning towards rolling on the Divination tree but thats only if I am taking the Tau as the ally and running a main force of Eldar where I can have 2 Farseers(One that rolls and one that stays with the codex powers)

If the Eldar are the ally, then I think keep them with their codex abilities.

What da ya think?

After playing a quick game last night, an aegis defense line is an incredible steal for 50 points, upgrade it with a quad gun if your expecting flyers.

Some ideas I was toying with, a unit of stealth with marker light drones in the aegis line, expensive but much more survivable then pathfinders. Also if the meta shifts more towards infantry, it might be worth considering putting 3 sniper drone teams in one of these, be a real pain to take them out.

I played with a bastion and a lascannon on top. It actually worked surprisingly well, and took a couple of the shots meant for my hammerhead and still didn't crack. I have to say though, a lascanon in my firewarriors was some of the best fun I've had in a while .

As far as the eldar allies go though, can't you only take a single allied HQ unit?

Just saying, drones got way better overall.

With closest to furthest shooting, drone controllers are awesome!

Drone up your steal suits, they become 50 points each, but are basically 3 wounds eternal warriors. (just keep the drones in the front and boom good luck shooting at the actual stealsuits and the carry around 4+ cover!!!)

I'm just going to end up taking 3 full squads of Fire Warriors (because overwatch from large amounts of fire warriors is terrifying, 2 pathfinder squads, some crisis suits, a broadside squad, and a couple hammerheads.


EDIT: and of course lots of drones.

DakkaHammer wrote:I played with a bastion and a lascannon on top. It actually worked surprisingly well, and took a couple of the shots meant for my hammerhead and still didn't crack. I have to say though, a lascanon in my firewarriors was some of the best fun I've had in a while .

As far as the eldar allies go though, can't you only take a single allied HQ unit?

The FoC works like this:


Which means at 2000pts+, if you take 2 HQ and 4 Troops of your primary detachment, you unlock the rest of the FoC, and after taking the 2 HQ and 2 Troops of the allied detachment, you can use every slot on the above image.
This means you have a potential 6 HQ, 8 Elite, 16 Troops, 8 Fast Attack, 8 Heavy Support and 2 Fortification options to choose from. (unless you're nids...)

Frankly, I'm going to stick with similar lists to the ones I've been running - a few crisis suits, bunch of firewarriors, pair of hammerheads, 2-3 broadsides.

Aha, ok thanks. I guess I was only thinking of games under 2k.

Good post, thanks for starting it FF. Also congrats on getting a rule named after you in this edition

I didn't see an entry for SMS. AFAIK it didn't change, but for completeness I though you should mention it.

crazyK wrote:Good post, thanks for starting it FF. Also congrats on getting a rule named after you in this edition

I didn't see an entry for SMS. AFAIK it didn't change, but for completeness I though you should mention it.

There are two sets of rules for SMS in the FAQ and both contradict each other :(

Captain Avatar wrote:

focusedfire wrote:Please from here, feel free to discuss ideas and strategies for builds and game play.

Also, Let me know what you how it is looking or if I have missed anything.

Ok, when taking Eldar as allies, "Do you think it is best to stick with the Codex Psychic powers or should we take a chance on rolling for the powers?".

If we roll, "Which Discipline, Telepathy or Divination?

I'm leaning towards rolling on the Divination tree but thats only if I am taking the Tau as the ally and running a main force of Eldar where I can have 2 Farseers(One that rolls and one that stays with the codex powers)

If the Eldar are the ally, then I think keep them with their codex abilities.

What da ya think?

I think Divination is the better bet. Its Powers all directly help our style of play. A Farseer in a unit of Fire Warriors with Foreboding and Prescience giving Overwatch at full ballistic skill and re-rolls of all misses will make your shooting more deadly and deter all but the hardest assault.

Or you use Prescience and Misfortune and shred a Marine unit in a single turn of shooting.

Telepathy has some nice powers but as a whole I think it is less useful.

I just had a game against assault vanilla marines/blood angels with the primaris farseer. It was funny, because he was afraid to take tests with his 3 psykers, and the first one he did got periled. The twin-linked hammerhead is pretty sweet, and even though i rolled a 3 for armor pen on a landie, it was still worth it. I managed to pull a draw without any broadsides.
I'm seriously considering using eldrad for the multiple uses of the single power, and four rolls on the tables. Divination seems to be by far the best for the Tau in my opinion.

I'm thinking fullsize Stealth Team with drone controllers and gun drones with eldrad and divination. Debating taking two fusion blasters, if I can roll up foreboding and misfortune just shove the unit down everythings throat. Put the blob right in the way of their assault units. Can I join my Battlesuite commander to the squad too? It would make a great target but use it accordingly you know.
30 str 5 shots with rerolls to hit and saves

On the reverse I can see Eldar taking a better Deathstar, take the full squad, put two psychers in there so you can get fortune and doom also.

Captain Avatar wrote:

focusedfire wrote:Please from here, feel free to discuss ideas and strategies for builds and game play.

Also, Let me know what you how it is looking or if I have missed anything.

Ok, when taking Eldar as allies, "Do you think it is best to stick with the Codex Psychic powers or should we take a chance on rolling for the powers?".

If we roll, "Which Discipline, Telepathy or Divination?

I'm leaning towards rolling on the Divination tree but thats only if I am taking the Tau as the ally and running a main force of Eldar where I can have 2 Farseers(One that rolls and one that stays with the codex powers)

If the Eldar are the ally, then I think keep them with their codex abilities.

What da ya think?

If you are going to trade in the codex powers then, I too believe that the Divination tree is the best for an Eldar/Tau alliance, Thing is, You take Doom, Guide and Fortune on a Jetseer w/Guardian Jetbike Squad. Add 1 warlock with either enhance or destructor. Take Singing Spears on the Warlock & Seer(Until they re-faq the Eldar). Use Doom on selected enemy target that you want to really hurt, then Markerlight same said target(cough*10 man termie squad*cough..cough).
Use fortune on the Bike squad to Keep them allive and on turns that you don't want to doom something then use Guide to boost one of the other Eldar units or the Jet-bike squad.

crazyK wrote:Good post, thanks for starting it FF. Also congrats on getting a rule named after you in this edition

I didn't see an entry for SMS. AFAIK it didn't change, but for completeness I though you should mention it.

Hay crazyK, thanks and yeah, gotta find a way to capitalize my dakka screen name.

As to the SMS, I will be adding to the OP after this post.

Pottsey wrote:There are two sets of rules for SMS in the FAQ and both contradict each other :(

The entries seem contradictory at first glance but they really don't deviate in a significant manner that I can tell.



To all Readers/Posters:

Anyway, Spent the past day or so, list writing. This was to see where the points and new abilities left us. What I've discovered so far is this.

Drones are much better(Duh), but not just the ones on controllers but also the independent gundrone squadrons. Here is my point:

Take 1 or 2 Crisis Commanders w/ a sheild dron each and join to a gun drone squadron, (You can do this with regular commanders or it is now a way to run Farsigth Cheap ).48-96 points for all those ablative wounds without tying up a crisis team by having them on Baby sitting duty.

On your Crisis teams, don't hesitate to run them at 3 strong. your going to want to have that Team leader character that can occasionally challenge and force the opponents PF guy to only killing him.

When building your teams with Missile Pods, design them to lay out 3 glances a turn if unsupported by markerlights. This is because the pathfinders are going to be moving (hopscotch, one team on one turn and the other on the next turn.) With the PF's moving they are going to generate only a 2-3 hits a turn with 2 teams of 5.

Stealth teams are better but still a lot of points and an elite slot for something that just doesn't have that much damage output. The best use I've found for them is to take 3-4 stealthsuits, one with FB and a Team Lead w/ 2 gundrones, then have them escort a crisis commander that is equipped with a FB and TLBC. This is a solid line-blocking unit that has decent anti-tank.

With how fragile Tanks are in this edition, I think that the Tau are stronger as a foot/jump list. In an 1850 point list, I'm looking to run maybe 3 Crisis teams, 2 PF squads(Gives 2 DF) and one Hammerhead(Ion or Rail, both are good). Then run 2 broadside teams of 2 with Plasma, shield drones and multi-trackers.

From there it is a matter of whether you want to play with your Kroot or your fire warriors.

Am also playing with a couple of lists that use Vespids and/or the Gun Drone squadrons.

Will post again soon with table top tactical ideas I'm playing with.