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Testify wrote:All I can say is I'm glad I live in a free country.

Dont start with that gak.. you know how touchy our American cousins are about "freedom" for some inexplicable reason.

What is so good about the illusion of "freedom" anyway?! I would much rather live in a heavy handed country, as long as I agreed with all of the gak they were heavy handed about!

If we had a supreme overlord who threw people into the dungeons if they wore baseball caps, drove lowered cars and drank Special Brew, then I would happily enter into eternal servitude with my new master.

Testify wrote:All I can say is I'm glad I live in a free country.

You don't. We have Miranda. You don't.

mattyrm wrote:

Testify wrote:All I can say is I'm glad I live in a free country.

Dont start with that gak.. you know how touchy our American cousins are about "freedom" for some inexplicable reason.

What is so good about the illusion of "freedom" anyway?! I would much rather live in a heavy handed country, as long as I agreed with all of the gak they were heavy handed about!

If we had a supreme overlord who threw people into the dungeons if they wore baseball caps, drove lowered cars and drank Special Brew, then I would happily enter into eternal servitude with my new master.

Democracy works because it's efficient, not for some middle class idea of ideology.
Heavy handed governments are incapable of meaningful change and actively oppress the free expression of the human condition. If you want proof of this, look at what China is going to do in the next ten years. Anyone who wants to regulate and reform their economy is an enemy of the state, so that property bubble grows and grows and grows...


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Frazzled wrote:

Testify wrote:All I can say is I'm glad I live in a free country.

You don't. We have Miranda. You don't.

You can have her

Frazzled wrote:

Testify wrote:All I can say is I'm glad I live in a free country.

You don't. We have Miranda. You don't.

British people can buy beer without getting treated like rapists. Your country is starting to look more like a Theocracy, and its only going to get worse next time a Republican gets voted in.

But how many times have we had this argument?

Different strokes for different folks, you feel free cos you can own a tommy-gun and shoot a cow with a bazooka, I feel free because Jesus freaks don't infest my neighbourhood and I can cross the street wherever I like. We can do this gak all day Frazzled, cant you just leave it be for once?

Your never-ending overt patriotism belies your age frankly.

mattyrm wrote:
But how many times have we had this argument?

Endlessly, because you're wrong. We have the Bill of Rights, specifically put in place because British citizens didn't have them.

Additionally it has been found:
We have the right to boogie.
We have the right to wear a mullet.
We have the right to remain loud.
We have the right to go to foreign countries in Bermuda shorts, Hawaiian shirts, black socks, and sandals.
We have the right to drive cars so polluting it would make the French stop smoking.
We have the right to watch the War Channel, and when the show the Soviets declaim to our wives 'look my relatives are kicking your relatives' asses tee hee!'
We have the right to sleep on the couch in response...
We have the right to steal foreign TV programs for our public TV, and then make crappier versions of them with higher production values and claim we invented it.
We have the right to barbeque. We have the right to queso. We have the right to never have to eat a vegetable.
We have the right to appear as a suspect on COPS without a shirt on.
We have a right to make fun of Doctor Who, knowing we were avid fans in our teen years.
We have the right to watch fat white guys re-enact Civil War battles by running around a field in woolen uniforms and getting strokes.
We have the right to ride Harley lowriders.
We have the right to dance the Macarena. We have the right, indeed the duty, to perform the chicken dance.

You have... haggis.

Frazzled, I agree on many things on that list.

But shorts, sandals and black socks belongs to German tourists.

American tourists have the right to wear flag t-shirts while complaining that nobody takes dollars and that everybody in the world has to speak english.

d-usa wrote:Frazzled, I agree on many things on that list.

But shorts, sandals and black socks belongs to German tourists.

American tourists have the right to wear flag t-shirts while complaining that nobody takes dollars and that everybody in the world has to speak english.

Fair point. The Germans also have the right to get up early, steal all the good chairs by the pool, put stuff on them, and then go back to bed until the early afternoon.

Frazzled wrote:

d-usa wrote:Frazzled, I agree on many things on that list.

But shorts, sandals and black socks belongs to German tourists.

American tourists have the right to wear flag t-shirts while complaining that nobody takes dollars and that everybody in the world has to speak english.

Fair point. The Germans also have the right to get up early, steal all the good chairs by the pool, put stuff on them, and then go back to bed until the early afternoon.

Hey, I am German and I take offense to that.

I don't remember ever taking of my towel and giving up my claim to yesterday's chair.

Good one!

Frazzled wrote:

mattyrm wrote:
But how many times have we had this argument?

Endlessly, because you're wrong. We have the Bill of Rights, specifically put in place because British citizens didn't have them.

No, the colonists were annoyed because they WERE British citizens and they didn't have the same rights that British citizens in the mainland had.
Similarly, parliament was reluctant to order slash and burn tactics against rebellious British subjects.

May I also pointed out the Bill of Rights (US) was heavily influenced by the Bill of Rights (English).

Of course, I always get a kick out of the true American tradition; No new taxes! Even if those taxes are going to pay for frontier defense against the French and Indians

LordofHats wrote:May I also pointed out the Bill of Rights (US) was heavily influenced by the Bill of Rights (English).

Of course, I always get a kick out of the true American tradition; No new taxes! Even if those taxes are going to pay for frontier defense against the French and Indians

Right. That and the pesky Westminster government putting a halt on the genocidal practices of colonists.

Damned Westminster government. They're all just gonna die of old age anyway!

Do you have the right to bear arms in the UK? - nope.

Do you have freedom of speech? - nope.

Do you have the right to disco? - nope

Do you have the right to FREEDOM FRIES? - nope

Frankly if there's a country that doesn't have the right to professional wrestling then thats a country I don't want to be a citizen of!

The Bill of Rights of 1688.

The most important provision was number XIV; the right not to have to prove that you had the right not to have to prove your rights.

This was developed into the 4th Amendment and was relied on by the card driver in the original video.

Frazzled wrote:Do you have the right to bear arms in the UK? - nope.

Actually it does (the 1689 BoR), though only the crown was forbidden from infringing on the right, but then the entire point of the Bill of Rights of 1689 was to limit the power of the crown.

Do you have freedom of speech? - nope.

It does that too.

Do you have the right to disco? - nope

No. Just a right to ball room dancing unfortunately.

Do you have the right to FREEDOM FRIES? - nope

To be fair, Freedom Fries aren't any different from French Fries, and they had those.

He compared 'Merica to Nazi Germany!

Can England have Freedom Fish & Liberty Chips?

Frazzled wrote:Do you have the right to bear arms in the UK? - nope.

"The rights of English subjects, and, after 1707, British subjects, to possess arms was recognised under English Common Law. Sir William Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, were highly influential and were used as a reference and text book for English Common Law. In his Commentaries, Blackstone described the right to arms"

Frazzled wrote:
Do you have freedom of speech? - nope.

Define "freedom of speech".


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d-usa wrote:Can England have Freedom Fish & Liberty Chips?

We have Yorkshire Puddings. They're much nicer.

Kilkrazy wrote:The Bill of Rights of 1688.

The most important provision was number XIV; the right not to have to prove that you had the right not to have to prove your rights.

This was developed into the 4th Amendment and was relied on by the card driver in the original video.

See this is what happens when you don't have the right to disco. You start sounding like Monty Python.
What you don't like SPAM????


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LordofHats wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Do you have the right to bear arms in the UK? - nope.

Actually it does (the 1689 BoR), though only the crown was forbidden from infringing on the right, but then the entire point of the Bill of Rights of 1689 was to limit the power of the crown.

Do you have freedom of speech? - nope.

It does that too.

Do you have the right to disco? - nope

No. Just a right to ball room dancing unfortunately.

Do you have the right to FREEDOM FRIES? - nope

To be fair, Freedom Fries aren't any different from French Fries, and they had those.

Wrong. Freedom Fries are entirely different. They are cooked in lard and a big heaping spoon of FRRRREEEEDOM (TM)

(FRRREEEEDOM is a copyrighted trademark of Games Workshop)


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Testify wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Do you have the right to bear arms in the UK? - nope.

"The rights of English subjects, and, after 1707, British subjects, to possess arms was recognised under English Common Law. Sir William Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, were highly influential and were used as a reference and text book for English Common Law. In his Commentaries, Blackstone described the right to arms"

Evidently it wasn't as you can't own any.

And I thought it was Freedom Chips and Liberty Fish?

I thought the Scots had all the freedom, wasn't that what Bravehard was all about?

Evidently it wasn't as you can't own any.

Unlike us Yanks, the Brits don't cling to a 200 year old piece of paper like its the word of god... Which may or may not be a good thing... A bad thing? Maybe its just neutral. Lets go with that.

(FRRREEEEDOM is a copyrighted trademark of Games Workshop)

Damn you GW! How do you expect me to pay for freedom when you keep increasing the price by 33% every year!

d-usa wrote:I thought the Scots had all the freedom, wasn't that what Bravehard was all about?

No that was about fried Mars Bars.

So how's it work in 'Merica now? You have to carry a passport around? A driver's license certainly does not prove U.S. citizenship. Give that only 12% of 'Mericans have passports this policy seems hard to enforce.

olympia wrote:So how's it work in 'Merica now? You have to carry a passport around? A driver's license certainly does not prove U.S. citizenship. Give that only 12% of 'Mericans have passports this policy seems hard to enforce.

No we just have to sacrifice a chicken to the dark god Chik Fil Ay daily and provide proof, then we're ok.

LordofHats wrote:

Evidently it wasn't as you can't own any.

Unlike us Yanks, the Brits don't cling to a 200 year old piece of paper like its the word of god... Which may or may not be a good thing... A bad thing? Maybe its just neutral. Lets go with that.

As I said, its a crock of gak.

Nobody is free anyway, there are all kinds of gak rules in place. Go figure. If you want to do any bastard thing nowadays there is a paper chase a mile long and taxes at every bloody turn, be it buying a house or a car, applying for a passport or requesting a new driving licence, its all about fething you around and taking your money off you. I have never understood the American obsession with chanting the word "freedom" over and over and over considering how full independence was gained more than 200 years ago.

The government keeps saying freedom this and freedom that so you will think that you are, but you aren't, and nobody is. We all have to play by a list of rules a mile long.

Basically, who gives a feth though? As long as you are "free" to do the 6 or 7 things you enjoy, then that's good enough. And 99?% of us like doing gak you CAN do, for me, its jogging, cycling in the wilderness, painting minis, playing video games, watching violent movies and getting drunk. As long as I am free to do those things, I don't much give a feth what they do.

Thus, rendering this endless debate about "who is the most free" ridiculously pointless. I felt less free in California because I got chased out of a store when I tried to buy booze once. No doubt you would feel less free here if you love machine-guns and you weren't allowed one. Its down to an individual thing, but the overwhelming point is simply that we are all about as free as we are gonna get.

And secondly, arguing about it as if you can "win" the freedom debate is childish, and fething boring.

olympia wrote:So how's it work in 'Merica now? You have to carry a passport around? A driver's license certainly does not prove U.S. citizenship. Give that only 12% of 'Mericans have passports this policy seems hard to enforce.

Shhhh!!!!

It's all part of the giant liberal conspiracy. They've used reverse psychology to get all these crazy right-wingers to pass laws requiring papers that none of them have. The next step is to deport all of those nutjobs to Mexico.

Once wethey do that, Obama will quickly swoop in, formalize socialism, raise taxes to 100%, and take away everyone's guns.

Frazzled wrote:

olympia wrote:So how's it work in 'Merica now? You have to carry a passport around? A driver's license certainly does not prove U.S. citizenship. Give that only 12% of 'Mericans have passports this policy seems hard to enforce.

No we just have to sacrifice a chicken to the dark god Chik Fil Ay daily and provide proof, then we're ok.

No seriously, how does one establish citizenship at a police checkpoint without providing a birth certificate or passport? Frazzled, you only resort to this type of nonsensical humor posting when you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

@grakmar--nice!

They don't. I assume he was asking for a driver's license.
(I didn't actually bother to watch the video at home and can't at work as my computer appears to have been manufactured by some company called IBM. Evidently 5100s are old.)

Technically a birth certificate does not prove citizenship. It proves the location of birth.

The US grants citizenship to anyone born in its soil, of course, however this could be given up later in life, so a current passport would be necessary proof, or some sort of a national ID card.

The US, UK and Japan all lack national ID cards, partly because of user resistance to the idea.