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put it on photobucket.

I would prefer if females do not get sent for front line duties. If they do get sent seperate the squads by gender and sexuality. Yes, it is predudice but segmenting is the best thing to do.

Never happen. There is no segregation in the US military. Eisenhower made sure of that. The first batch is female officers which in turn would lead to command a line platoon. Which the platoon will either break her or shape her. SHe has to set the standard in fact she has to exceed the standard. Because the platoon will exceed the standard to break her. Example the platoon can do their 12 mile ruck in under 2 hours and 30 mins in full combat load. She barely makes it in under 3 hrs. We now have a problem.


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battery to camera charging

Who said CBA was 60lbs? I know weights pretty well from training in kit, and body armor is feth all like 60.

My webbing with 6 full magazine's and 2 litres of water was 22lbs. So feth knows exactly.. But i reckon CBA weighs about what.. 12lbs?

Whatever.. When you're wandering around a Fob in nothing but CBA it feels like feth all anyway. I think people just exagerate.. How many times have you met a fether in the airforce or something who goes "oh yeah we were marching in Afghanistan with like... 180lb rucks on dude! "

Your CBA is different from our IOTV Matty. Besides Matty people are thinking just the vest alone and not with everything that you take with you out the wire. Also when I post the pics of my vest you get a kick out of the velcro patch I have on it.

Starship Troopers taught me that coed units are great, at least in the showers.

mattyrm wrote:Ouze the point is, they DONT pass the same tests.. They never do!

I've said for years that military physical standards should be based on the requirements of the MOS, and nothing else.

http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h350/Jihadin/?action=view¤t=armor003.jpg

http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h350/Jihadin/?action=view¤t=armor001.jpg

Vest alone with plates and additional attachment...groin, kidney neck piece and detoids (I wear a LRG) is 35 lbs

Loaded M4 is 7 lbs

UBL is supposedly is 7 mags. I carry 15 30 round mags so additional 15 lbs

9mm Baretta is 2.5 lbs loaded

I carry three additional mags...figure 1 lbs

Camelback filled with water 4 lbs

The advance CLS bag is 11 LBS

IFAK under a pound

Emergency Extraction Tool 7 LBS (Its a axe to shatter bullet resistant window

ACH helmet over 3 LBS

PRC commo device under a pound

so far 65 lbs

Bipod on the M4

ACOG

Now this is where it gets way different. Depends on the unit that out the wire

Extra belt of ammo for either the M249 of M240B

Frags
Smoke grenade
Flashbang
Foldable stretcher
SINGAR Radio plus spare battery
2 additional Medic bag (not just one)
Spare barrel for the SAW
Spare 204 rounds
Marker panel
Additional water
AT4/Javelin
NVG's
Assualt Bag (things like 100 mph tape, zipcuffs, sandbags. MRE, more water, and pogey bait)
So your averaging out 90-110 lbs so far

We haven't brought in the crew serve tripod (we never took them)

So far it really doesn't look a lot but soldier out the wire is not going to take minimum stuff. You double up on whatever you think you need to CYA and your buddy.

Even Etools were brought

I like your patch mate.

Melissia wrote:

rubiksnoob wrote:

Melissia wrote:Instead of throwing up her hands and giving up pathetically, she should come up with solutions.

Like bionic implants so that she can compete physically with her male counterparts?

I was thinking of something more mundane. Like better designed equipment and training.


Badly fitting uniforms and armor have been identified as one of the primary causes for long-risk of injury for female soldiers, for example.

Melissia, Melissia, Melissia. Unless the women can meet the same physical requirements as the men, in the same gear, with the same training, then they can go back to being secretaries, making sandwiches, and farting out beautiful, screaming children.

Jihadin wrote:You really don't want a form fitting uniform when a flash fire happens. As for the body armor mine is stilled geared up for combat and it is not 60lbs. DCM/mod would let me I take pics and post it on here so everyone can be on the same sheet of music for a couple hours

You are most certainly correct. Even if just for simple ballistic reasons-- body armor that is curved inwards channels the bullet towards your center of mass, basically making it easier to die rather than harder.

But even ignoring the simple ballistics, there's also functional issues. For example, flight suits for women do not allow women to urinate in flight like they do men, and one of the most requested redesigns is to make the zipper go further down to allow for women to go without taking their suit part of hte way off.

Flightsuits are ACU design like the ACU uniform except its made out of nomex. Also a female crewchief in a combat theater is rare due to the possibilityof the aircraft itself can be shot down in an unsecure area.

That doesn't change the needs of the crew.

I used to crew. There is no "need". Its always "do". No exception

I served 4 years as an 0351 Anti-Tank/Assault U.S. Marine Corps grunt. Yes there are more than one form of Marine Grunt. Mine came pre-loaded with your standard grunt 782 gear. Don't know anyone of us that carried just 2 liters of water. I carried four qts on my asspack and the same in a bladder on my back. We carried 15 magazines of ammo, I got a special present of a grenade vest to go along with my M203. Yes I'm dating myself. Pot and Vest, a case of MRE's field stripped, all the incidentals, adds up to what? Who cares. A Marine does not fight naked. Basic combat load is just that, a grunts SKIN. If you can't function with that at max capacity you are utterly useless to everyone in your squad, your platoon, your company and battalion.

On top of my basic load, my so called specialised MOS gifted me with a standard issue of two 20lb sachel charges of C4, 100ft of det cord, blasting caps, and demo bag. Doesn't matter how much it weighed, it all exploded. On top of this I carried my own Day Tracker and its attendent Dragon round. My A gunner carried yet another round and our Night Tracker. Each round cashed in at roughly 30 pounds, day tracker at 10, night tracker at 30. A-gunner carried a 16, but he also had to carry rounds for our squads M60. That matched out my 203. So we were both equally miserable. Adds up to what? Who cares. We didn't fight naked. We were expected to carry this weight over great distances in training, and even longer during combat. I'm a gulf war vet, so I guess I focus on the carrying part the most. Never had to go through most of what the current generation has had to. My cover is off to them.

Do I think women are capable of doing the job I did? I'm sure some women could. Most men could never do the basic job of Marine Corps Infantrymen, that is arriving at the point of contact with their basic load, capable of fighting for the duration. Then locating, closing with and destroying the enemy. You know all that Ooorah Oorah Jarhead stuff. Most men can't be a Marine Infantrymen. I'll leave it to all the feminists to decide if their often much younger female coutnerparts should undergo the experience to further their crusade. I'm sure the flat feet will cure these young women of ever wearing those cute sexy little shoes the often older feminists seem to hate so much. You women want my job? You're welcome to it. Good luck. Have a jolly old time, keep your powder and feet dry, your dick hard and just a bit too much hate in your heart. You're gonna need it, the world hates a Grunt. Best to hate it right back.

While you're at it. Make sure all those young women turning 18 head down to the Post Office to register for the draft. Yes, selective service, which may seem a cliche. America only drafts servicemen when things are really bad right? Well if women want equal rights. By all means, give them equal rights. America's fresh crop of 18 year old males aren't given the right to serve in the infantry. They actually have the DUTY of doing so. It may seem unlikely, a remote possibility, but its there, I turned 18 in boot camp, and actually got a few letters sent to me while I was in the Marines threatening me with legal action for NOT REGISTERING. If you don't register you can be prosecuted for it. So if women are equal and want to be Grunts. They have to sign the little card as well.

While we're being idiotic, lets take a look at what that might get us. Women make up what, roughly 52% of the U.S. Population? Being equal, they should then make up about the same percentage of any pool of draftees right? Again with the interest of being equal, they should receive just the same percentage to all those units commonly filled up by draftees. Rare in the Marine Corps, but lets say then that 52% of the draftees sent to the infantry are your average straight out of highschool, still smelling of Prom dresses, all American girls. I'm sure there are some women out there who CAN do what the average USMC Grunt is asked to do again and again. I'm 100 times more sure that there are a lot of women out there who can't wait for some OTHER woman to go there and do those things all to prove some feminist point.

Sad to say that an actual woman who got close to the real thing came back from the experience and had the courage to say something they didn't like about something that the feminists had never done, experienced, or ever faced being forced to participate in. Israeli women do it right? Do we honestly think that your average 18 yr old U.S. female matches up to their Israeli counterparts who live no more than 20-30 miles from a bunch of folks that want to repeat the holocaust? I'm willing to guess that the Taylor Swift and Katy Perry fans of the U.S. don't have a clue what it is to be an Israeli woman.

But again, I say lets give the feminists in the U.S. exactly what they and all the mush head feminsts around the world want. Lets make this generation of girls try to live up to the legacy of the Marines who fought at Peleliu. Half the squad will be filled up with women, so that removes any insane 'need' of a male Marine to go out and save her. Her BFF can try and do it. We can sit back and watch the crazy roll by as CNN shows us pictures of these young Prom queens and cheerleaders who've had their bodies and lives torn apart. Lets by all means finally equalize all the injustices against women and just make them completely equal. DRAFT THEM!!!

Fair is Fair, right?

Jihadin wrote:I used to crew. There is no "need". Its always "do". No exception

I assume crews have needs in order to do...
I mean, if you decided that crews could only use their hands for everything and weren't allowed tools for anything there would be some problems...

This threads gone gay.

Fixed.




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dracpanzer wrote:America's fresh crop of 18 year old males aren't given the right to serve in the infantry. They actually have the DUTY of doing so.

No, we have the duty to serve in the military if so called, but the military isn't just the infantry.

dracpanzer wrote:
While we're being idiotic, lets take a look at what that might get us. Women make up what, roughly 52% of the U.S. Population? Being equal, they should then make up about the same percentage of any pool of draftees right?

Wrong. Have you heard the phrase "able-bodied" before?

dracpanzer wrote:
Do we honestly think that your average 18 yr old U.S. female matches up to their Israeli counterparts who live no more than 20-30 miles from a bunch of folks that want to repeat the holocaust? I'm willing to guess that the Taylor Swift and Katy Perry fans of the U.S. don't have a clue what it is to be an Israeli woman.

I'm willing to bet there are some female Israeli soldiers that would have your misogynistic head on a pike.

dracpanzer wrote:
Fair is Fair, right?

Your post is an example of why the educated deal with policy.

This is a very good point, why do gays and chicks get all the hot guys with machine-guns, I feel sorry for you guys.

But if woman serve then you get more of this

dracpanzer wrote:About four paragraphs of good stuff, then stuff that went progressively downhill and started sabotaging his own points.

Most military roles aren't infantry grunts. Many women serve, and I'm sure most of them consider themselves feminists, as they would like to be treated as equal human beings. Now, being morally and lawfully equal doen't mean we all have the same abilities and talents, of course. An efficient military uses people in the roles they're best suited to.

@Purple a crewchief is issued a toolbox. If he "need" something bigger then he can go to the tool room and sign it out. All he has to "do" is walk back to the hanger.


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Best one so far on a "need" is "Hey I need a headspace and timing gauge to get this 50 up.....seriously? Here's my set of dog tags and get yours out to.


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Oh and Drac....while you were a Dragon team member...wasn't there a peice from the system you can put in your pocket? The radiated piece?

Jihadin wrote:http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h350/Jihadin/?action=view¤t=armor003.jpg

http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h350/Jihadin/?action=view¤t=armor001.jpg

Vest alone with plates and additional attachment...groin, kidney neck piece and detoids (I wear a LRG) is 35 lbs

Loaded M4 is 7 lbs

UBL is supposedly is 7 mags. I carry 15 30 round mags so additional 15 lbs

9mm Baretta is 2.5 lbs loaded

I carry three additional mags...figure 1 lbs

Camelback filled with water 4 lbs

The advance CLS bag is 11 LBS

IFAK under a pound

Emergency Extraction Tool 7 LBS (Its a axe to shatter bullet resistant window

ACH helmet over 3 LBS

PRC commo device under a pound

so far 65 lbs

Bipod on the M4

ACOG

Now this is where it gets way different. Depends on the unit that out the wire

Extra belt of ammo for either the M249 of M240B
J
Frags
Smoke grenade
Flashbang
Foldable stretcher
SINGAR Radio plus spare battery
2 additional Medic bag (not just one)
Spare barrel for the SAW
Spare 204 rounds
Marker panel
Additional water
AT4/Javelin
NVG's
Assualt Bag (things like 100 mph tape, zipcuffs, sandbags. MRE, more water, and pogey bait)
So your averaging out 90-110 lbs so far

We haven't brought in the crew serve tripod (we never took them)

So far it really doesn't look a lot but soldier out the wire is not going to take minimum stuff. You double up on whatever you think you need to CYA and your buddy.

Even Etools were brought

Come now, it's been stated by one person on this thread that it's no trick at all to hump that gak at speed over several miles of rough terrain, up and down hills and mountains in extreme weather. He says you just have to even the load out! After about 10-20 miles of that I bet he could then strip naked in preparation for a spot of Mountain Lion wrestling with his bare hands!

dogma wrote:

mattyrm wrote:Ouze the point is, they DONT pass the same tests.. They never do!

I've said for years that military physical standards should be based on the requirements of the MOS, and nothing else.

Yes. I know Matty is aware of gender-norming but possibly not aware that our Congress insisted on that - that's why I mentioned the part about leadership. This isn't a military issue, it's a congressional leadership issue. They need to put on their big boy pants and explain that there is nothing sexist about a MOS with a small percentage of females. Explaining things to constituents is hard but, you know, they should try.

This cuts both ways, of course; rather then it being hard to get women onto subs biologically speaking it should mostly be women on subs. Smaller, use less oxygen, work better in groups...

Ouze wrote:

dogma wrote:

mattyrm wrote:Ouze the point is, they DONT pass the same tests.. They never do!

I've said for years that military physical standards should be based on the requirements of the MOS, and nothing else.

Yes. I know Matty is aware of gender-norming but possibly not aware that our Congress insisted on that - that's why I mentioned the part about leadership. This isn't a military issue, it's a congressional leadership issue. They need to put on their big boy pants and explain that there is nothing sexist about a MOS with a small percentage of females. Explaining things to constituents is hard but, you know, they should try.

This cuts both ways, of course; rather then it being hard to get women onto subs biologically speaking it should mostly be women on subs. Smaller, use less oxygen, work better in groups...

You sir, are a lucky man. Because if you think women work better in groups you have never been subjected to the horror of Real Housewives.

A sub with a good portion of the crew is female....imagine replacing the bulbs with UV light bulbs....

Bromsy wrote:You sir, are a lucky man. Because if you think women work better in groups you have never been subjected to the horror of Real Housewives.

Well, reality show stars might not be the best picks for most military jobs, regardless of what it is. And teams of all women do poorly as well - a mixed team of majority women would probably produce the best results, especially with a rigid hierarchy (which any military unit already has).

Jihadin wrote:A sub with a good portion of the crew is female....imagine replacing the bulbs with UV light bulbs....

what does this even mean

Ouze wrote:

Jihadin wrote:A sub with a good portion of the crew is female....imagine replacing the bulbs with UV light bulbs....

what does this even mean

It's the scenario he's pitching for the next big bucks porn production.

I approve, btw.

My old command was the USS Ohio, first sub to have female crew on board. Started with 1 female LT, don't know where its at now as far as percentage of the normally 150 folks on board. I know in the Navy having females in the surface fleet caused a lot of high school type drama amongst grown men. It was a huge deal among submariners to have females because we are all crazy superstitious.

I got out a few years ago so I have no clue how it is on board now, but from what I saw on the surface ships I visited it was the down time, no pun intended, that screwed everything, again no pun etc., up.

When I was stationed in Groton, CT, I watched a chief go to mast and get knocked down to e-4 for sleeping with a e-3 female who worked at the clinic.

I don't think I would have an issue with a front line female grunt, as long as she can handle the physical/mental aspect of the job, but its what happens when your not on the front line and everyone's bored that can really mess things up.

Just my 2 cents

IronWarLeg wrote:what happens when your not on the front line and everyone's bored that can really mess things up.

Just my 2 cents

I learned that from the last episode of Band of Brothers.

chief go to mast and get knocked down to e-4 for sleeping with a e-3 female who worked at the clinic.

As well as he should have. That creates major problems.


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body fluid shows up under UV light