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2012/07/26 06:05:13
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
Crimson-King2120 wrote:Im gonna say Creed i cant see why a normal human cant be lord commander wasn't Lord Solar a normal human ?
Lord Solar Macharius is a good choice...but he's dead now. In any case, its unlikely a Primarch will return anytime soon. Apart from GW not advancing the plot, the Imperium isn't even close to 'direst need' yet.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
2012/07/26 06:17:24
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
I've always had this view. Marines don't make as big a difference as Marine fans think.
The IoM wouln't survive without the IG and the Fleet, but it could survive with out the Marines. "But OBC what about Deamons, mere humans can't fight deamons" There are numerous fluff tales of standard humans killing even greater deamons. It just takes about 10 times as many humans.
Then I suppose you wouldn't mind if the Space Marines just seceded, since you don't need us after all? I suppose you don't need the Emperor, either, since technically, he's not Human. And you don't need the Mechanicus either, since they're cyborgs as opposed to being Human. You might as well declare every superhuman/cyborg traitor and renegade, seeing as the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy can handle everything. Who knows, you might actually break the grimdark and win, although I see nothing but death and ruination as the ghosts of dead Astartes and Machine Cult adherents laugh from the Warp at your folly.
The Admech isn't a fighting force, its more of a support force with its body guards, and a vital cog in the IoM. As For Space Marines seceding, go right ahead, hold together a pitiful (except the Ultramarines) little death world, with your pitiful like battle barge and slowly fade into oblivion. Unlike, the ADMECH, The Navy, and the Imperial Guard, they are not vital. They are pitifully few (Around a million members... in the WHOLE GALAXY) they're extremely spread out, and not worth the resources spent on them.
Proud to be Obliviously Blue since 2011!
2012/07/26 06:21:48
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
I've always had this view. Marines don't make as big a difference as Marine fans think.
The IoM wouln't survive without the IG and the Fleet, but it could survive with out the Marines. "But OBC what about Deamons, mere humans can't fight deamons" There are numerous fluff tales of standard humans killing even greater deamons. It just takes about 10 times as many humans.
Then I suppose you wouldn't mind if the Space Marines just seceded, since you don't need us after all? I suppose you don't need the Emperor, either, since technically, he's not Human. And you don't need the Mechanicus either, since they're cyborgs as opposed to being Human. You might as well declare every superhuman/cyborg traitor and renegade, seeing as the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy can handle everything. Who knows, you might actually break the grimdark and win, although I see nothing but death and ruination as the ghosts of dead Astartes and Machine Cult adherents laugh from the Warp at your folly.
The Admech isn't a fighting force, its more of a support force with its body guards, and a vital cog in the IoM. As For Space Marines seceding, go right ahead, hold together a pitiful (except the Ultramarines) little death world, with your pitiful like battle barge and slowly fade into oblivion. Unlike, the ADMECH, The Navy, and the Imperial Guard, they are not vital. They are pitifully few (Around a million members... in the WHOLE GALAXY) they're extremely spread out, and not worth the resources spent on them.
Sure. We'll come back in a few centuries...I'm sure we'd have a great auction selling off what's left of the Imperium.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
2012/07/26 06:35:34
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
I've always had this view. Marines don't make as big a difference as Marine fans think.
The IoM wouln't survive without the IG and the Fleet, but it could survive with out the Marines. "But OBC what about Deamons, mere humans can't fight deamons" There are numerous fluff tales of standard humans killing even greater deamons. It just takes about 10 times as many humans.
Then I suppose you wouldn't mind if the Space Marines just seceded, since you don't need us after all? I suppose you don't need the Emperor, either, since technically, he's not Human. And you don't need the Mechanicus either, since they're cyborgs as opposed to being Human. You might as well declare every superhuman/cyborg traitor and renegade, seeing as the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy can handle everything. Who knows, you might actually break the grimdark and win, although I see nothing but death and ruination as the ghosts of dead Astartes and Machine Cult adherents laugh from the Warp at your folly.
The Admech isn't a fighting force, its more of a support force with its body guards, and a vital cog in the IoM. As For Space Marines seceding, go right ahead, hold together a pitiful (except the Ultramarines) little death world, with your pitiful like battle barge and slowly fade into oblivion. Unlike, the ADMECH, The Navy, and the Imperial Guard, they are not vital. They are pitifully few (Around a million members... in the WHOLE GALAXY) they're extremely spread out, and not worth the resources spent on them.
Sure. We'll come back in a few centuries...I'm sure we'd have a great auction selling off what's left of the Imperium.
Thats what would happen if there was no IG and IN. Do'nt forget it was Space Marines who put the IoM in the bind in the first place, with Horus and his daddy issues. If Big E hadn't put so much into the Primarchs, well it wouldn't be WH40k.
Which as much as I dislike the Marines, they are the poster boys of 40k, and have to the most attention, as un justied as it is.
Still doesn't change that Lord Commander of the Imperium should go to the BEST general the IoM has, Which would be Lord Castellen Creed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/26 06:42:14
Proud to be Obliviously Blue since 2011!
2012/07/26 06:35:53
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
Ronin wrote:
That's the Emperor's job, and even then he delegated matters to a council back on Terra, and to Malcador.
Not exactly...the original War Council had all the Primarchs as members. Then the Council of Terra was established with none of them having a seat...the resentment caused by this was one of many reasons the Horus Heresy broke out. In fact, none of the military had a seat on the council, and IIRC, it wasn't the Emperor who formed the Council of Terra, but Malcador. So we can blame the resentment that helped kill the Imperium's future (which he ultimately did) to Malcador.
Erm, yeah. That's exactly what my point was, thanks for validating it for me. The Primarchs were in the War Council because the Primarchs were made for war. Not to lead, or succeed the Emperor in his dominion over man, but to serve and protect and conquer.
The actual running and administration would've been left to the Council, and Malcador as Terra's Regent. You know, the Emperor's right-hand man.
If anything, Malcador helped save the Imperium.
1500
2012/07/26 06:40:01
Subject: Re:[Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
Thats why in the Imperial Palace his statue is labled "Savior of the Imperium". Which stands next to the statue of Garro labled "Hero of the Imperium".
Khorne Daemons 4000+pts
2012/07/26 06:41:00
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
I've always had this view. Marines don't make as big a difference as Marine fans think. The IoM wouln't survive without the IG and the Fleet, but it could survive with out the Marines. "But OBC what about Deamons, mere humans can't fight deamons" There are numerous fluff tales of standard humans killing even greater deamons. It just takes about 10 times as many humans.
Then I suppose you wouldn't mind if the Space Marines just seceded, since you don't need us after all? I suppose you don't need the Emperor, either, since technically, he's not Human. And you don't need the Mechanicus either, since they're cyborgs as opposed to being Human. You might as well declare every superhuman/cyborg traitor and renegade, seeing as the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy can handle everything. Who knows, you might actually break the grimdark and win, although I see nothing but death and ruination as the ghosts of dead Astartes and Machine Cult adherents laugh from the Warp at your folly.
The Admech isn't a fighting force, its more of a support force with its body guards, and a vital cog in the IoM. As For Space Marines seceding, go right ahead, hold together a pitiful (except the Ultramarines) little death world, with your pitiful like battle barge and slowly fade into oblivion. Unlike, the ADMECH, The Navy, and the Imperial Guard, they are not vital. They are pitifully few (Around a million members... in the WHOLE GALAXY) they're extremely spread out, and not worth the resources spent on them.
Sure. We'll come back in a few centuries...I'm sure we'd have a great auction selling off what's left of the Imperium.
Thats what would happen if there was no IG and IN. Do'nt forget it was Space Marines who put the IoM in the bind in the first place, with Horus and his daddy issues. If Big E hadn't put so much into the Primarchs, well it wouldn't be WH40k.
Which as much as I dislike the Marines, they are the poster boys of 40k, and have to the most attention, as un justied as it is.
Still doesn't change that Imperial Commander should go to the BEST general the IoM has, Which would be Lord Castellen Creed.
Nope. Imperial Guard and Navy could never hold Chaos and the Tyranids and everything else on their own.
DeffDred wrote:
If anything, Malcador helped save the Imperium.
You are correct.
Thats why in the Imperial Palace his statue is labled "Savior of the Imperium". Which stands next to the statue of Garro labled "Hero of the Imperium".
Perhaps, but the Imperium has no future. We can thank Malcador for that...had Guilliman taken the throne as opposed to letting the council govern, the Imperium would have been better off.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/26 06:43:17
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
2012/07/26 06:44:42
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
Tadashi wrote:Nope. Imperial Guard and Navy could never hold Chaos and the Tyranids and everything else on their own.
Except that they have done so, many times, on their own. Remember, its a big galaxy, and the Space Marines cant be everywhere at once.
If the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy are even half as incompetent as you seem to think they are, then not even all the Space Marines in the galaxy could held hold the Imperium on its own.
Tadashi wrote:
DeffDred wrote:You are correct.
Thats why in the Imperial Palace his statue is labled "Savior of the Imperium". Which stands next to the statue of Garro labled "Hero of the Imperium".
Perhaps, but the Imperium has no future. We can thank Malcador for that...had Guilliman taken the throne as opposed to letting the council govern, the Imperium would have been better off.
The Imperium did have a future. It held for 10,000 (over 9,000!!!) years after Malcador passed and the Emperor was interred into the Golden Throne. As I've said countless times, Primarchs were made for war, not governing an empire. In that respect, Malcador was superior than most of the Primarchs.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/26 06:48:03
1500
2012/07/26 06:48:49
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
Tadashi wrote:Nope. Imperial Guard and Navy could never hold Chaos and the Tyranids and everything else on their own.
Except that they have done so, many times, on their own. Remember, its a big galaxy, and the Space Marines cant be everywhere at once. If the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy are even half as incompetent as you seem to think they are, then not even all the Space Marines in the galaxy could held hold the Imperium on its own.
Not really. You see, they do fight most of the battles...but for every battle they win, there are battles that they cannot win. That's where the Space Marines come in...without the Astartes, in the long term, the attrition would ultimately sap the Imperium dry.
Ronin wrote: The Imperium did have a future. It held for 10,000 (over 9,000!!!) years after Malcador passed and the Emperor was interred into the Golden Throne. As I've said countless times, Primarchs were made for war, not governing an empire. In that respect, Malcador was superior than most of the Primarchs.
If you've read The Last Remembrancer, you'd know as well as I do that the Imperium has no future in its current state.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/26 06:50:42
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
2012/07/26 06:52:04
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
I've always had this view. Marines don't make as big a difference as Marine fans think.
The IoM wouln't survive without the IG and the Fleet, but it could survive with out the Marines. "But OBC what about Deamons, mere humans can't fight deamons" There are numerous fluff tales of standard humans killing even greater deamons. It just takes about 10 times as many humans.
Then I suppose you wouldn't mind if the Space Marines just seceded, since you don't need us after all? I suppose you don't need the Emperor, either, since technically, he's not Human. And you don't need the Mechanicus either, since they're cyborgs as opposed to being Human. You might as well declare every superhuman/cyborg traitor and renegade, seeing as the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy can handle everything. Who knows, you might actually break the grimdark and win, although I see nothing but death and ruination as the ghosts of dead Astartes and Machine Cult adherents laugh from the Warp at your folly.
The Admech isn't a fighting force, its more of a support force with its body guards, and a vital cog in the IoM. As For Space Marines seceding, go right ahead, hold together a pitiful (except the Ultramarines) little death world, with your pitiful like battle barge and slowly fade into oblivion. Unlike, the ADMECH, The Navy, and the Imperial Guard, they are not vital. They are pitifully few (Around a million members... in the WHOLE GALAXY) they're extremely spread out, and not worth the resources spent on them.
Sure. We'll come back in a few centuries...I'm sure we'd have a great auction selling off what's left of the Imperium.
Thats what would happen if there was no IG and IN. Do'nt forget it was Space Marines who put the IoM in the bind in the first place, with Horus and his daddy issues. If Big E hadn't put so much into the Primarchs, well it wouldn't be WH40k.
Which as much as I dislike the Marines, they are the poster boys of 40k, and have to the most attention, as un justied as it is.
Still doesn't change that Imperial Commander should go to the BEST general the IoM has, Which would be Lord Castellen Creed.
Nope. Imperial Guard and Navy could never hold Chaos and the Tyranids and everything else on their own.
Again thats the Space Marines your describing, for the brave men and women of the Imperial Guard do it every single fething day. Who stopped Abbaddon? Admiral Quarren and the Imperial Navy. He is said to have been the only thing standing between survival, and utter defeat for the Imperium in the Battle of Cadia. Him, not Space Marine Chapter Master X. Creed bravely lead the defense against the best the EoT could throw at him, and is still holding. Cadia maybe under siege but as long as mere men take up the call to throw back the evil that is chaos then Cadia will never fail, nor will the IoM.
Throughout the Fluff there is stories of humans winning against the forces that threaten to tear the Imperium apart. Humans make up 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the Defenders of the Imperium. How could a mere 1,000,000 marines hold even a fraction of a fraction's worth of the Imperium Together? They couldn't even complete the Great Crusade without the Imperial Army.
Malcador was the one who held the Golden Throne while Big E killed Horus, with out him Big E would have died via Lexicanum: "At the instant of Malcador's death, the Emperor awoke from his coma - Malcador had saved a last kernel of strength and passed it on to the Emperor so he could give his servants their final orders" So it was Big E that set up the state the IoM was in. Also Guilliman couldn't have ruled in Malcadors stead since he was busy being, well dead. Malcador that is, not Guilliman, he didn't die till a bit later.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/26 06:58:56
Proud to be Obliviously Blue since 2011!
2012/07/26 06:52:23
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
Then I suppose you wouldn't mind if the Space Marines just seceded, since you don't need us after all?
Really...they don't, except for contrived plot reasons. That said, for all intents and purposes SM's *are* seceded elements, they contribute no tithes, no resources, no manufacturing capabilities, nobody can tell them what wars to fight or indeed to even fight at all, their participation in the Imperium's wars is purely voluntary really as they are autonomous organizations. They are for all intents and purposes rogue elements, with only their oaths (which they can and do break, remember, at least 50 full chapters have gone rogue since the heresy and innumerable companies/squads/individuals) and the Inquisition there to keep them nominally on the side of the Imperium.
I suppose you don't need the Emperor, either, since technically, he's not Human.
You are now officially going off into la-la land. What does his "technically not being Human" have to do with anything? That wasn't what people were saying. People were arguing the military value of the Astartes as an organization, you've gone off on some totally random contrived tangent here. The point was that normal, non-augmented soldiers can get the job done, autonomous super soldier enclaves are unnecessary.
That, and the Emperor serves a vital purposes, he powers the Astronominican, without which the Imperium would fall in a day.
And you don't need the Mechanicus either, since they're cyborgs as opposed to being Human.
Again, random tangent that has nothing to do with what was being discussed. The state of being "human" or not is irrelevant, it's not what the subject was the military value of certain forces relative to standard Imperial forces.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/26 06:53:59
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2012/07/26 07:04:33
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
Let's see what happens when there's no Astartes...let's say there's a campaign in one sector. The Guard and Navy win all but one decisive battle. Then repeat this across the galaxy. Doesn't seem much right? One defeat for every thousand victories. But then repeat this everyday for another millennium. Its just as the Cabal said - the Imperium won't fall in ten thousand years. Maybe even for twenty thousand years. But the decay and attrition will continue, until the enemies of Mankind get what they want. Chaos, Tyranids, and Orks don't follow logic, they'll never run out of daemons/madmen/bio-constructs/warriors to throw against you.
It doesn't matter anyway, whether or not the Astartes fight with alongside the Guard/Navy or not. They might delay the inevitable for thirty? Fifty thousand years? Doesn't matter. A civilization with no future is as good as dead. This is Warhammer 40,000...the Imperium and Mankind are doomed, all that's left is to go out in flames and glory.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
2012/07/26 07:09:31
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
Lion would be a nightmare. He'd see schemes that weren't there, punish people who were loyal, and lie and deceive to cover up mistakes.
I would say
Corax
Vulcan
Khan
Russ
Lion
In that order
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+ Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2 One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners
2012/07/26 09:17:00
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
Lobukia wrote:Lion would be a nightmare. He'd see schemes that weren't there, punish people who were loyal, and lie and deceive to cover up mistakes.
Hmmm...that would definitely give him the support of the council, since now they have an expert to tell them how to do it.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
2012/07/26 09:45:44
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
I've always had this view. Marines don't make as big a difference as Marine fans think.
The IoM wouln't survive without the IG and the Fleet, but it could survive with out the Marines. "But OBC what about Deamons, mere humans can't fight deamons" There are numerous fluff tales of standard humans killing even greater deamons. It just takes about 10 times as many humans.
Then I suppose you wouldn't mind if the Space Marines just seceded, since you don't need us after all? I suppose you don't need the Emperor, either, since technically, he's not Human. And you don't need the Mechanicus either, since they're cyborgs as opposed to being Human. You might as well declare every superhuman/cyborg traitor and renegade, seeing as the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy can handle everything. Who knows, you might actually break the grimdark and win, although I see nothing but death and ruination as the ghosts of dead Astartes and Machine Cult adherents laugh from the Warp at your folly.
The Emperor is a husk. He is nothing more than a Skeletal husk sitting on life support. Think of Mr. House in Fallout NV, and you have a pretty close understanding.
Tadashi wrote:Let's see what happens when there's no Astartes...let's say there's a campaign in one sector. The Guard and Navy win all but one decisive battle. Then repeat this across the galaxy. Doesn't seem much right? One defeat for every thousand victories. But then repeat this everyday for another millennium. Its just as the Cabal said - the Imperium won't fall in ten thousand years. Maybe even for twenty thousand years. But the decay and attrition will continue, until the enemies of Mankind get what they want. Chaos, Tyranids, and Orks don't follow logic, they'll never run out of daemons/madmen/bio-constructs/warriors to throw against you.
It doesn't matter anyway, whether or not the Astartes fight with alongside the Guard/Navy or not. They might delay the inevitable for thirty? Fifty thousand years? Doesn't matter. A civilization with no future is as good as dead. This is Warhammer 40,000...the Imperium and Mankind are doomed, all that's left is to go out in flames and glory.
The IG fight campaigns all the time by themselves. Are you serious? We can see from your previous posts that you are a SM fanboy, and you argue as such. Throughout this thread, all I have seen, is stuff that should have IMO in front of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/26 09:51:42
Ultramarines Legion 138th Company
Ultramarines Legion 19th Reserve Armour Company
Merican 1st Infantry "Merican Legion"
2012/07/26 09:46:34
Subject: [Poll] Who is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium
I've always had this view. Marines don't make as big a difference as Marine fans think.
The IoM wouln't survive without the IG and the Fleet, but it could survive with out the Marines. "But OBC what about Deamons, mere humans can't fight deamons" There are numerous fluff tales of standard humans killing even greater deamons. It just takes about 10 times as many humans.
Then I suppose you wouldn't mind if the Space Marines just seceded, since you don't need us after all? I suppose you don't need the Emperor, either, since technically, he's not Human. And you don't need the Mechanicus either, since they're cyborgs as opposed to being Human. You might as well declare every superhuman/cyborg traitor and renegade, seeing as the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy can handle everything. Who knows, you might actually break the grimdark and win, although I see nothing but death and ruination as the ghosts of dead Astartes and Machine Cult adherents laugh from the Warp at your folly.
The Emperor is a husk. He is nothing more than a Skeletal husk sitting on life support. Think of Mr. House in Fallout NV, and you have a pretty close understanding.
Everyone knows that...what's your point?
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
2012/07/26 09:51:09
Subject: [Poll] Which surviving loyalist Primarch is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium?
Vulkan. He is very humble, but that could prove to be a good leader instead of Lion El, Lion was greedy and scheming. He's my least favorite Primarch. Corax is another good choice
He is very agressive in thinking and gets things done quickly which is good. If Leman Russ was the leader..Everyone would be drunk most likely..
Black Templars are the best Space Marine Chapter out of all the Space Marines. They are the most fanatical marines out there. They are on an endless, eternal crusade for the god emperor. AND they get in the face of the enemy. Thats the way to get things done.
calgar 2.5 wrote:The IG fight campaigns all the time by themselves.
Even better, I recall Codex fluff mentioning how the Imperial Guard has to be sent in to fight those battles the Space Marines cannot handle because they are "too big, the enemy too powerful".
Astartes are a rapid reaction force, and as such they are quite useful for the Imperium. They are not, however, the irreplacable last line of defence that a number of their players and some of the newer fluff, especially certain Black Library novels and FFG's RPGs, present them to be. At least if we carefully analyze what we have been told by studio writers so far.
Since this franchise does not have a true canon, it would not be "wrong" to follow one of the different interpretations, one where the Astartes are more important and respected and holy etc. Anyone doing so just has to keep in mind that this might include a loss of common ground for a discussion like this.
2012/07/26 14:11:59
Subject: Re:[Poll] Which surviving loyalist Primarch is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium?
Testify wrote:Why should it be a primarch? I'm not sure how the Imperial Guard or mechanicus would feel about that
IG would probably be happy, since they are already cool with giving regular marines command or at least joint command 99% of the time when the two forces meet, and they are the sons of the Emperor who the mechanicus worships as an agent of the omnisiah.
Honestly I would have to say Johnson, even if you included Guilleman on that list. Guilleman would have made a good statesman, he was good at motivating people, good at organizing his massive legion and drafting the codex astartes, but as a very high level military commander, I would have to give Lion the edge. As for everyone else, they either cannon be trusted to not cause problems (Russ), might not have the sheer determination and ruthlessness needed (Vulkan), or might not be as good a conventional commander as Lion (Corax and Khan). Sure using speed and stealth are good on a relatively low level, but when you are organizing a crusade across systems you can't really enforce a constant doctrine of stealth or speed.
The main problem with Lion is that he might actually be a traitor if the fallen are to be believed (they probably shouldn't), and if the only living loyalist primarch revolted the war would possibly be worse than the Horus Heresy.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tadashi wrote:
ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:
I've always had this view. Marines don't make as big a difference as Marine fans think.
The IoM wouln't survive without the IG and the Fleet, but it could survive with out the Marines. "But OBC what about Deamons, mere humans can't fight deamons" There are numerous fluff tales of standard humans killing even greater deamons. It just takes about 10 times as many humans.
Then I suppose you wouldn't mind if the Space Marines just seceded, since you don't need us after all? I suppose you don't need the Emperor, either, since technically, he's not Human. And you don't need the Mechanicus either, since they're cyborgs as opposed to being Human. You might as well declare every superhuman/cyborg traitor and renegade, seeing as the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy can handle everything. Who knows, you might actually break the grimdark and win, although I see nothing but death and ruination as the ghosts of dead Astartes and Machine Cult adherents laugh from the Warp at your folly.
The emperor is only needed for warp travel, besides that all he does is sit around eating psykers and keeping daemons in his broken webway from getting out. As for the marines, we are better off with them, but if they did secede they would probably be wiped out long before the rest of the Imperium.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/26 14:15:41
2012/07/26 14:15:57
Subject: Re:[Poll] Which surviving loyalist Primarch is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium?
Testify wrote:Why should it be a primarch? I'm not sure how the Imperial Guard or mechanicus would feel about that
IG would probably be happy, since they are already cool with giving regular marines command or at least joint command 99% of the time when the two forces meet, and they are the sons of the Emperor who the mechanicus worships as an agent of the omnisiah.
Honestly I would have to say Johnson, even if you included Guilleman on that list. Guilleman would have made a good statesman, he was good at motivating people, good at organizing his massive legion and drafting the codex astartes, but as a very high level military commander, I would have to give Lion the edge. As for everyone else, they either cannon be trusted to not cause problems (Russ), might not have the sheer determination and ruthlessness needed (Vulkan), or might not be as good a conventional commander as Lion (Corax and Khan). Sure using speed and stealth are good on a relatively low level, but when you are organizing a crusade across systems you can't really enforce a constant doctrine of stealth or speed.
The main problem with Lion is that he might actually be a traitor if the fallen are to be believed (they probably shouldn't), and if the only living loyalist primarch revolted the war would possibly be worse than the Horus Heresy.
My thoughts exactly. The Imperium would win in the end, but any such victory would be so hollow that they would take the alternative and placate the Primarch as opposed to deliberately antagonizing him.
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.'
2012/07/26 17:28:14
Subject: Re:[Poll] Which surviving loyalist Primarch is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium?
Testify wrote:Why should it be a primarch? I'm not sure how the Imperial Guard or mechanicus would feel about that
IG would probably be happy, since they are already cool with giving regular marines command or at least joint command 99% of the time when the two forces meet, and they are the sons of the Emperor who the mechanicus worships as an agent of the omnisiah.
To be fair, SM's are outside the IG's chain of command, they may cooperate, and in some poor fluff instances the SM's do get command when their authors aren't remembering their codex astartes and Imperial Army breakup fluff, but in general a Space Marine Chapter Master has no more authority over an IG grunt than a civilian does aside from being big and scary looking. They have a "spiritual" authority of sorts, but following the orders of a Chapter Master over your sergeant is going to have the Commissariat putting you against a wall, whatever the consequences may otherwise have been.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2012/07/26 17:41:59
Subject: [Poll] Which surviving loyalist Primarch is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium?
Lobukia wrote:Lion would be a nightmare. He'd see schemes that weren't there, punish people who were loyal, and lie and deceive to cover up mistakes.
I would say
Corax
Vulcan
Khan
Russ
Lion
In that order
So nothing would change, except there would be a figurehead instead of simply "the inquisition" doing so.
Touche'
DO:70S++G++M+B++I+Pw40k93/f#++D++++A++++/eWD-R++++T(D)DM+ Note: Records since 2010, lists kept current (W-D-L) Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 Crimson Tide 59-4-0 Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 Primaris and Little Buddies 7-0-0
QM Templates here, HH army builder app for both v1 and v2 One Page 40k Ruleset for Game Beginners
2012/07/28 22:49:16
Subject: [Poll] Which surviving loyalist Primarch is most suited to be Lord Commander of the Imperium?
1500 
Blue DP Crusade 126-11-6 
Biel-Tan Aspect Waves 2-0-2 
Looted Green Horde smash your face in 32-7-8 
Broadside/Shield Drone/Kroot blitz goodness 23-3-4 
Grey Hunters galore 17-5-5 
Khan Bikes Win 63-1-1 
Tanith with Pardus Armor 11-0-0 
Crimson Tide 59-4-0 
Green/Raven/Deathwing 18-0-0 
Jumping GK force with Inq. 4-0-0 
BTemplars w LRs 7-1-2 
IH Legion with Automata 8-0-0 
RG Legion w Adepticon medal 6-0-0 
64-70-23
21-15-4
3-0-0
Imperial Fists 4th company (Work In Progress)
Warhost of Biel-Tan (Coming Soon!)