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I've always felt that the "god" of the Tyranids was the Hive mind. It's basically a warp presence after all, and it can direct and command it's real space "followers".

It always seemed like the shadow in the warp was the psychic presence of creatures from another galaxy. In the same way that creatures from our galaxy are described as flames that flicker in the warp and psykers are like a lighthouse, the tyranids are a darkness that smothers our the other "shades" of light in the vicinity. They are "dark" warp creatures, kind of like another flavor I suppose.

Synapse creatures are just biological "dark" warp amplifiers. As has been seen, when the lesser bugs have been deprived of the synapse effect they revert to a feral state, to me this is a twisted form of demonic possession.

Well, the hive mind isn't it's own entity like a warp God. While a warp God is created by the emotions fed to it, it is its own entity.

The Hive Mind is a gestalt consiousness - it is the Tyranid race, and the Tyranid race is the Hive Mind. It's one mind made up of the minds of every other Tyranid, not really a separate entity.

What synapse creatures do is relay the will of the Hive Mind, which is the will of the race itself, to lesser creatures, and control them to accomplish the races goal. All creatures contribute to the Hive Mind, but only synapse creatures can hear it, and then tell the lesser creatures what to do based on that, with a bit of added locational awareness or tactical thinking thrown in.

-Loki- wrote:Well, the hive mind isn't it's own entity like a warp God. While a warp God is created by the emotions fed to it, it is its own entity.

The Hive Mind is a gestalt consiousness - it is the Tyranid race, and the Tyranid race is the Hive Mind. It's one mind made up of the minds of every other Tyranid, not really a separate entity.

What synapse creatures do is relay the will of the Hive Mind, which is the will of the race itself, to lesser creatures, and control them to accomplish the races goal. All creatures contribute to the Hive Mind, but only synapse creatures can hear it, and then tell the lesser creatures what to do based on that, with a bit of added locational awareness or tactical thinking thrown in.

Exactly. It's similar to "normal" warp entities work in the 40k galaxy. While the Hive mind is made of the minds of all the Tyranids, the chaos gods are made up of the negative emotions of sentient creatures. They are both collections of the minds/souls/hearts of the creatures that created them. In the same way that the Hive mind is created and sustained by the Tyranid race, the chaos gods are created and sustained by the negative emotions of the creatures of the galaxy. Wipe out either selection of species and you kill the god. Hell, I'm convinced it's possible to destroy the chaos gods without wiping out every single species in the galaxy....it's just really really unlikely to happen.

You could argue that psykers are the parallel to synapse creatures, as they are more susceptible to "hearing" the voice the chaos gods.

I see the Hive mind as the perfect evolution of a warp entity, where as I see the chaos gods as chaotic and lesser organized and "younger" versions of basically the same thing. It's a very tidy and Tyranid-y theory to explain the Hive mind and their connection to the warp and in my opinion is better then "There's a big Hive mind brain floating in a ship somewhere directing everyone".

broodstar wrote:Dictionary.com

sa·pi·ent
having or showing great wisdom or sound judgment.

The relevant definition of sapience here is the biologists' one (to again quote the OED): 'Characteristics particular to and defining of modern man, homo sapiens'. This usage literally stems from Linnaeus' choice of 'sapiens', and covers the whole raft of mental capabilities unique to mankind - as I stated above, creating art, forming moral codes, etc. (In this instance, since we are discussing a sci-fi universe, such characteristics are of course no longer unique to homo sapiens, but possessed by the Eldar, the Tau, etc.)

The hive mind is beyond any warp creature. It is made up of all the Synapse creatures and the Synpase creatures make it up. Each Synapse creature is like one brain cell in your brain. Your mind is a culmination of all of those brain cells yet more than that.

 DeffDred wrote:
Ants have a written language.

Tyranids don't. Ants are more intelligent than Tyranids.

nailed it

TheEverShift wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:
Ants have a written language.

Tyranids don't. Ants are more intelligent than Tyranids.

nailed it

Ants' written language= pheromones, right? Tyranids have those times ten.

My understanding of Tyranid consciousnesses is this, the higher up in the Tyranid hierarchy you go, the more developed and individualistic the consciousness is. So a basic Gaunt only has an animal level consciousness, lesser Synapse beasts, like Warriors and Zoanthropes have a slightly more developed conciousness, along with Tyranids capable of independent operation, such as Genestealers and Lictors. Leader level Synapse beasts such as Tyrants have even greater mental capabilities, followed by Dominatrixes, then whatever the Hive level consciousness is, then at the top is the master Hive Mind. As you move up the chain, each creature has more automity, but still must obey the directives of higher level organisms. Additionally, each sentience is not necessarily tied to a specific Tyranid body. The Swarmlord, for example, could easily be the same Tyranid sentience each time it is encountered, but merely reborn into a different body. As such, theoretically speaking Tyranids could feel high level emotions that could potentially power warp beings.

On the topic of the Daemonic possession of Tyranid organisms, I'm going to state that it is probable but unlikely unless those organisms are cut off from the hive mind. Each Tyranid has some degree of psychic potential due to their connection to the hive mind being partially warp based, but for all but the lowest level inteligences, possession would be extremely difficult due to the sheer strength of the hive mind. For anything beyond a Tyrant class organism, the Hive Mind's strength is comparable to at least that of the strongest psykers in the Imperium, and as far as we know Tigurius and Mephistion probably aren't daemonic puppets. And saying above a Tyrant may be a touch generous. For lower level organisms, the Hive mind would probably just terminate any Tyranid that was at risk of being possessed rather than have it turn on their own, meaning that the daemon would have to possess the bug before the Hive Mind would have time to react. Additionally, the distortions caused by the hive mind likely make it difficult for Daemons to sustain themselves in the warpspace where the distortion lies. So it could happen, but only under specific conditions. For similar reasons, I suspect that a Chaos god of Tyranids is unlikely to exist, unless that god is the hive mind itself. The distortion in the warp would make it difficult for warpbeasts to sustain themselves, and the Hive Mind itself would probably prevent the creation of such a being.

So possible, yes, probable, no.

As I understand it there's only two "tiers" Synapse and not Synapse. Synapse creatures are avatars of the hive mind. Non-synapse creatures are basically animals. I suppose you could posses a non-synapse creature but that would be pretty boring for a daemon. You might as well posses a cow.

 broodstar wrote:

Fido198674 wrote:Wouldn't that fall under Papa Nurgle?

Actually the overwhelming need to hunt and constantly mutate and evolve would all fall into survival, and survival fits squarely in with Papa Nurgle.

So I guess, as Tyranid numbers increase and the Hive Mind grows stronger, so will Nurgle.

Wouldnt the need to EVOLVE fit with Tzeentch?????