Ellen Barkin Hopes Hurricane Kills 'Every Pro-Life, Xenophobic, Gay-Bashing SOB' At The RNC

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**CT GAMER**

Frazzled wrote:

It better be chocolate!

**Frazzled**

CT GAMER wrote:
Experiment wrote:

But then, the people also have to take responsibility as well for their actions... The National Hurricane Center was screaming at everyone living along the gulf cost to run the away to higher ground when Katrina was lining up New Orleans, and alot of people just brushed it off as a 'been there, heard that, nothing ever happens' type of mentality.
Then we all got to see what happens when poorly maintained levies in a city that's only 18 feet below sea level gets hit by a catagory 3 hurricane... (now imagine if Katrina hadn't lost a huge chunck of steam before she hit.)

Economic shackles played a factor...

Your analysis does not factor in the fact that for many of the exteme poor, elderly and infirm in New Orleans they would find it hard to just "GTFO" even if they wanted to.

It takes money and a social/family safety & support net to pick up a family if you don't have a place to go (a car). Hotels are expensive, so is gas (if your lucky enough to have a car), food, etc. For the very poor and others that I mentioned GTFO was not a valid option without assistance.

I have credit cards and savings I could dip into to facilitate a GTFo for my family. Many of the people that died did not. Also if you are dirt poor with no means to GTFO you are afraid to leave what little you do have (your home and meager possessions).

Nothing about Katrina was as simple as "GTFO" for many many people that suffered and died.

And their condition was well known to those with the power to do something about it...

Yep. But somehow thats Bush's fault and not the mayor/governor's fault.

**reds8n**

Amaya wrote:

Obama flagellates himself every month under a full moon.

Maybe if he does yoga, it's that last vertebrae that.. err.. hmm.. ohh...

Best of luck to any and all Dakkanauts in the affected area, hope you and yours ride this out safe and snug.

**CT GAMER**

Frazzled wrote:
CT GAMER wrote:
Experiment wrote:

But then, the people also have to take responsibility as well for their actions... The National Hurricane Center was screaming at everyone living along the gulf cost to run the away to higher ground when Katrina was lining up New Orleans, and alot of people just brushed it off as a 'been there, heard that, nothing ever happens' type of mentality.
Then we all got to see what happens when poorly maintained levies in a city that's only 18 feet below sea level gets hit by a catagory 3 hurricane... (now imagine if Katrina hadn't lost a huge chunck of steam before she hit.)

Economic shackles played a factor...

Your analysis does not factor in the fact that for many of the exteme poor, elderly and infirm in New Orleans they would find it hard to just "GTFO" even if they wanted to.

It takes money and a social/family safety & support net to pick up a family if you don't have a place to go (a car). Hotels are expensive, so is gas (if your lucky enough to have a car), food, etc. For the very poor and others that I mentioned GTFO was not a valid option without assistance.

I have credit cards and savings I could dip into to facilitate a GTFo for my family. Many of the people that died did not. Also if you are dirt poor with no means to GTFO you are afraid to leave what little you do have (your home and meager possessions).

Nothing about Katrina was as simple as "GTFO" for many many people that suffered and died.

And their condition was well known to those with the power to do something about it...

Yep. But somehow thats Bush's fault and not the mayor/governor's fault.

As the commander in chief if the agencies in place are failing/not responding then you use your authority and act. If he can authorize and support the flying of thousands of soldiers across the globe to blow the gak out of various groups of people, he could just as easily put available air and manpower resources to use droping food/supplies/meds or attempting a massive airlift using ANY military resources available to facilitate it.

Sitting around pretending everything is fine for days while the news is showing people (american citizens remember) dying 24/7 in droves is disgraceful to the office he held and our nation.

**Jihadin**

Seeing it on TV and being briefed on whats happening are two different thing. If FEMA said they can handle it why would the Pres cut their knees out from under them?

**Grey Templar**

There wasn't anything special about Katrina till after the fact.

And I'm pretty sure using the Armed Forces to help when existing organizations should have been capable would be considered improper use of men and materials.

The fact remains that Katrina was the fault of State and Local authorities as well as improper maintainance of the Levies. None of which the President should ever be concerned with, he's got more important stuff to do then micromanaging our crisis response contingencies.

**CT GAMER**

Jihadin wrote:
Seeing it on TV and being briefed on whats happening are two different thing. If FEMA said they can handle it why would the Pres cut their knees out from under them?

Because ALL evidence was showing that they werent handling it.

Being the president i would expect his sources of intel and the regularity of any sitreps received to be more layered, multi-sourced and detailed then "well Fema dude says he is cool bro, so dont worry about it..."

He could have also watched five minutes of any news outlet to see that FEMA was full of gak...

**Frazzled**

Small matter of the Law there...

Hold on. SInce we mentioned it.

**Grey Templar**

If I were president, I wouldn't trust the news to give me the reliable information. Why should I trust sources that are garunteed to be biased and sensationalist?

**Frazzled**

Jihadin wrote:
Seeing it on TV and being briefed on whats happening are two different thing. If FEMA said they can handle it why would the Pres cut their knees out from under them?

Then I guess Gunrunner really was Obama's fault.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:
If I were president, I wouldn't trust the news to give me the reliable information. Why should I trust sources that are garunteed to be biased and sensationalist?

I wouldn't trust that I'm suddenly responsible for...well everything.

Since we mentioned. 10 people got wacked in Chicago yesterday. Its Obama's fault!

**CT GAMER**

Grey Templar wrote:
If I were president, I wouldn't trust the news to give me the reliable information. Why should I trust sources that are garunteed to be biased and sensationalist?

Video footage from hundreds of sources made it very clear what the situation was on the ground.

**Frazzled**

CT GAMER wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
If I were president, I wouldn't trust the news to give me the reliable information. Why should I trust sources that are garunteed to be biased and sensationalist?

Video footage from hundreds of sources made it very clear what the situation was on the ground.

AFTER. Unless he had powers that were magically delicious it takes days to redeploy assets. The essential question is: when did the governor of Louisiana ask for aid, in what form, and how long after did it arrive.

Or should we have assets sufficient to save an entire city on 24 hour notice at all times? If so we need to bring some troops home from other countries.

**whembly**

Frazzled wrote:
CT GAMER wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
If I were president, I wouldn't trust the news to give me the reliable information. Why should I trust sources that are garunteed to be biased and sensationalist?

Video footage from hundreds of sources made it very clear what the situation was on the ground.

AFTER. Unless he had powers that were magically delicious it takes days to redeploy assets. The essential question is: when did the governor of Louisiana ask for aid, in what form, and how long after did it arrive.

Or should we have assets sufficient to save an entire city on 24 hour notice at all times? If so we need to bring some troops home from other countries.

I distinctly remember that the gov/mayor rejected the initial Federal help...

**ShumaGorath**

Jihadin wrote:
FEMA Camps are ready to accept EVERYONE

Hopefully they manage that without firing on them this time around.

**Jihadin**

Within the United States and as delineated in the National Response Plan, disaster response and planning is first and foremost a local government responsibility. When local government exhausts its resources, it then requests specific additional resources from the county level. The request process proceeds similarly from the county to the state to the federal government as additional resource needs are identified. Many of the problems that arose developed from inadequate planning and back-up communications systems at various levels.[95]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina#Government_response

**CT GAMER**

Frazzled wrote:

Or should we have assets sufficient to save an entire city on 24 hour notice at all times? If so we need to bring some troops home from other countries.

It wouldnt have been an easy task, in fact it would have been a cluster feth, but that doesnt mean you dont do everything in your power to attempt something. Anything as quickly as possible.

**ShumaGorath**

whembly wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
CT GAMER wrote:
Grey Templar wrote:
If I were president, I wouldn't trust the news to give me the reliable information. Why should I trust sources that are garunteed to be biased and sensationalist?

Video footage from hundreds of sources made it very clear what the situation was on the ground.

AFTER. Unless he had powers that were magically delicious it takes days to redeploy assets. The essential question is: when did the governor of Louisiana ask for aid, in what form, and how long after did it arrive.

Or should we have assets sufficient to save an entire city on 24 hour notice at all times? If so we need to bring some troops home from other countries.

I distinctly remember that the gov/mayor rejected the initial Federal help...

No one expected the levees to fail. The hurricane itself didn't cause tremendous damage, the storm surge toppling the levee into a below sea level city did. The levees weren't up to the scale they needed to be, but that wasn't really the fault of the sitting governor or the president. The governor should have asked for help, the engineers that upkept the levees shouldn't of cheaped out and failed, and Bush shouldn't of paralyzed FEMA with nepotism.

There was a lot of blame all over the place there. The last people that should probably be blamed are the millions who had a very short period of time to make a very costly and difficult evacuation based on conflicting and not always believable reports.

**Frazzled**

ShumaGorath wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
FEMA Camps are ready to accept EVERYONE

Hopefully they manage that without firing on them this time around.

i didn't know FEMA was armed. Must have gotten hold of some of the NOAA bullets. Its so clear to me now!

**Grey Templar**

If anyones to blame, it would be people who oversaw the levee construction.

Heck, lets go further back. Whoever the dumb bunny was that decided it would be a good idea to build a city below sea level right fething next to the ocean. That person should be pubilically denounced.

**Frazzled**

CT GAMER wrote:
Frazzled wrote:

Or should we have assets sufficient to save an entire city on 24 hour notice at all times? If so we need to bring some troops home from other countries.

It wouldnt have been an easy task, in fact it would have been a cluster feth, but that doesnt mean you dont do everything in your power to attempt something. Anything as quickly as possible.

And you're assuming it wasn't, without any basis in fact.

**Jihadin**

It wouldnt have been an easy task, in fact it would have been a cluster feth, but that doesnt mean you dont do everything in your power to attempt something. Anything as quickly as possible.

Only active duty unit that would have a whole brigade on ground in under 8 hrs would be the 82nd. A Combat Brigade.....

**Frazzled**

Jihadin wrote:
It wouldnt have been an easy task, in fact it would have been a cluster feth, but that doesnt mean you dont do everything in your power to attempt something. Anything as quickly as possible.

Only active duty unit that would have a whole brigade on ground in under 8 hrs would be the 82nd. A Combat Brigade.....

Also:

President of the United States George W. Bush declared a state of emergency in selected regions of Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi on Saturday, the 27th, two days before the hurricane made landfall.[16] That same evening, the NHC upgraded the storm alert status from hurricane watch to hurricane warning over the stretch of coastline between Morgan City, Louisiana to the Alabama-Florida border, 12 hours after the watch alert had been issued, and also issued a tropical storm warning for the westernmost Florida Panhandle.[3]

Thats earlier than what Obama just did. But its Bush's fault!

**ShumaGorath**

Frazzled wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
FEMA Camps are ready to accept EVERYONE

Hopefully they manage that without firing on them this time around.

i didn't know FEMA was armed. Must have gotten hold of some of the NOAA bullets. Its so clear to me now!

Didn't FEMA oversee the national guard operation post katrina for dispersing aid to stranded people and making sure they directed their "movement"? Maybe that was just the NatGuard being stupid on its own.

**Frazzled**

Many private caregiving facilities that relied on bus companies and ambulance services for evacuation were unable to evacuate their charges because they waited too long. Louisiana's Emergency Operations Plan Supplement 1C(Part II, section II paragraph D) calls for use of school and other public buses in evacuations.[25] Although buses that later flooded were available to transport those dependent upon public transportation, not enough bus drivers were available to drive them as Governor Blanco did not sign an emergency waiver to allow any licensed driver to transport evacuees on school buses.[26] However, 20 year old Jabbar Gibson armed with only a standard operator's permit took it upon himself to take a school bus and drive it to Houston with 50 to 70 evacuees.[27][28] Some estimates claimed that 80% of the 1.3 million residents of the greater New Orleans metropolitan area evacuated, leaving behind substantially fewer people than remained in the city during the Hurricane Ivan evacuation.[29]

This what got mine (whats a mother's cousin? I don't know familial terms). The ambulance got caught up in the traffic because it took too long in getting her out and she passed on the road. Sad deal. Was watching one of the videos looking down from a freeway onto flooded houses and my mom freaked - one was the home she group up in.

**Jihadin**

No FEMA doesn't oversee military operations. FEMA and DHS has no authority over the military. They can place Subject Matter Expert with the CoC but again. They have no authority

**Frazzled**

ShumaGorath wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
FEMA Camps are ready to accept EVERYONE

Hopefully they manage that without firing on them this time around.

i didn't know FEMA was armed. Must have gotten hold of some of the NOAA bullets. Its so clear to me now!

Didn't FEMA oversee the national guard operation post katrina for dispersing aid to stranded people and making sure they directed their "movement"? Maybe that was just the NatGuard being stupid on its own.

Edit already answered.

**ShumaGorath**

Jihadin wrote:
No FEMA doesn't oversee military operations. FEMA and DHS has no authority over the military. They can place Subject Matter Expert with the CoC but again. They have no authority

Ahh, well I'll revise my statement. Hopefully the national guard can avoid it then. Either way it was a pretty sorry showing last time around by all agencies involved. The response effort on an organizational level was abysmal front to back and the nepotism in FEMA was visible (nepotism characterized an awful lot of the bush presidency).

**Jihadin**

Then-FEMA Director Michael D. Brown was criticized personally for a slow response and an apparent disconnection with the situation. Michael Brown would eventually be relieved of command of the Katrina disaster and soon thereafter resigned

Shuma I'm curious. Where do you see the NG shooting someone? As in link. All I'm getting is the police shooting someone at the stadium.

**ShumaGorath**

Jihadin wrote:
Then-FEMA Director Michael D. Brown was criticized personally for a slow response and an apparent disconnection with the situation. Michael Brown would eventually be relieved of command of the Katrina disaster and soon thereafter resigned

Shuma I'm curious. Where do you see the NG shooting someone? As in link. All I'm getting is the police shooting someone at the stadium.

There were reports of them firing warning shots into the air to traffic peoples movements around the city. They had orders to prevent looting and to herd people to shelters or out of dangerous areas, but the threat of death was implied via use of the weapons and these are American citizens in many cases trying to return to their homes.

There are also reports of FEMA and NatGuard helicopters being shot at (and indeed they had to suspend some operations because of it). The whole thing was pretty mad max.

**Jihadin**

There were reports of them firing warning shots into the air to traffic peoples movements around the city. They had orders to prevent looting and to herd people to shelters or out of dangerous areas, but the threat of death was implied via use of the weapons and these are American citizens in many cases trying to return to their homes.

KK now I'm tracking.