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Palindrome wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Its not.

Whats not?

Snot?

(I was agreeing with you, but now we've fallen into one of my wife's little jokes - Quick, laugh like I do or she'll run over you with the van!)

 Grey Templar wrote:
Christmas is a Christian holiday. We are fine with sharing it, but activly trolling it is disrespectful of our beliefs.

Get your own damn holiday Atheists and accept that Christmas is one of the major holidays of the worlds largest religion. Celebrate it your own secular way, but let others celebrate it in their own.

Actually, I've just become a druid and would like you to get your own damned holiday, not hijack Winter's Solstice, bringing foliage inside, gift giving or feasting. These are all ancient and pagan.

I'm sure you lot could do something suitably austere on an agreed date in September, say a day's fasting, working to enable the poor, wearing a crown of brambles and walking barefoot.

But I've decided you Christians can't have 'our day' any more. Quit trolling it.

The atheists in this story are being dicks.

End of.

Religious people can be dicks as well, before "Hurrr WBC" pops up. Bad behavior doesn't excuse more bad behavior.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Christmas is a Christian holiday. We are fine with sharing it, but activly trolling it is disrespectful of our beliefs.

Get your own damn holiday Atheists and accept that Christmas is one of the major holidays of the worlds largest religion. Celebrate it your own secular way, but let others celebrate it in their own.

Actually, I've just become a druid and would like you to get your own damned holiday, not hijack Winter's Solstice, bringing foliage inside, gift giving or feasting. These are all ancient and pagan.

I'm sure you lot could do something suitably austere on an agreed date in September, say a day's fasting, working to enable the poor, wearing a crown of brambles and walking barefoot.

But I've decided you Christians can't have 'our day' any more. Quit trolling it.

History is written by the winners, Jack!

You want your holiday back? Come take it! On a more serious note, some slightly less... cultured people in my life have become very up at arms about a few of the Pagan roots in Christmas' symbology while simultaneously being oblivious to the fact that nearly every holiday we celebrate has them.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I don't see Atheists trolling other religion's holidays. If they did there would be a huge uproar, but somehow its ok to try and push Christianity out of its own holiday?

Generally athiests will act against the dominant relgion in the place they live because that will be, surprisingly, the dominant religious influence on their lives. Generally that religion will be Christianity. When the next biggest religion has, what? 2% of the population following it, the chances of it having much impact on the majority of athiests is minimal.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Christmas is a Christian holiday. We are fine with sharing it, but activly trolling it is disrespectful of our beliefs.

Get your own damn holiday Atheists and accept that Christmas is one of the major holidays of the worlds largest religion. Celebrate it your own secular way, but let others celebrate it in their own.

Actually, I've just become a druid and would like you to get your own damned holiday, not hijack Winter's Solstice, bringing foliage inside, gift giving or feasting. These are all ancient and pagan.

I'm sure you lot could do something suitably austere on an agreed date in September, say a day's fasting, working to enable the poor, wearing a crown of brambles and walking barefoot.

But I've decided you Christians can't have 'our day' any more. Quit trolling it.

I don't know about German's. We bring trees inside and light them on fire because we're wussies and can't hang with being uncomfortable in any way. So push off!
PLus as a Texas, every day is a feast day, and it better be fried and/or covered in cheese!

 Monster Rain wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Christmas is a Christian holiday. We are fine with sharing it, but activly trolling it is disrespectful of our beliefs.

Get your own damn holiday Atheists and accept that Christmas is one of the major holidays of the worlds largest religion. Celebrate it your own secular way, but let others celebrate it in their own.

Actually, I've just become a druid and would like you to get your own damned holiday, not hijack Winter's Solstice, bringing foliage inside, gift giving or feasting. These are all ancient and pagan.

I'm sure you lot could do something suitably austere on an agreed date in September, say a day's fasting, working to enable the poor, wearing a crown of brambles and walking barefoot.

But I've decided you Christians can't have 'our day' any more. Quit trolling it.

History is written by the winners, Jack!

You want your holiday back? Come take it!

I don't have to, you already lost it...

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-12-20-unchristmasinside20_ST_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Also, Frazzled, you can't invoke Karma, it belongs to the Hindu, Buddhist and Sikh religions...

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I don't see Atheists trolling other religion's holidays. If they did there would be a huge uproar, but somehow its ok to try and push Christianity out of its own holiday?

Generally athiests will act against the dominant relgion in the place they live because that will be, surprisingly, the dominant religious influence on their lives. Generally that religion will be Christianity. When the next biggest religion has, what? 2% of the population following it, the chances of it having much impact on the majority of athiests is minimal.

I betcha thats not correct. I'm thinking there's remarkably little atheist activity in Saudi Arabia.

 Monster Rain wrote:
The atheists in this story are being dicks

I don't see how. The worst thing that they did was not using all the stalls that they were allocated thereby blocking their use.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Monster Rain wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Christmas is a Christian holiday. We are fine with sharing it, but activly trolling it is disrespectful of our beliefs.

Get your own damn holiday Atheists and accept that Christmas is one of the major holidays of the worlds largest religion. Celebrate it your own secular way, but let others celebrate it in their own.

Actually, I've just become a druid and would like you to get your own damned holiday, not hijack Winter's Solstice, bringing foliage inside, gift giving or feasting. These are all ancient and pagan.

I'm sure you lot could do something suitably austere on an agreed date in September, say a day's fasting, working to enable the poor, wearing a crown of brambles and walking barefoot.

But I've decided you Christians can't have 'our day' any more. Quit trolling it.

History is written by the winners, Jack!

You want your holiday back? Come take it!

I don't have to, you already lost it...

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-12-20-unchristmasinside20_ST_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

Also, Frazzled, you can't invoke Karma, it belongs to the Hindu, Buddhist and Sikh religions...

Hey once a Buddhist always a Buddhist. Oh man, I just got caramel on my karma!

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I don't have to, you already lost it...

See, I disagree.

People enjoying a holiday differently than I do doesn't get me terribly bent out of shape.

 Frazzled wrote:

I betcha thats not correct. I'm thinking there's remarkably little atheist activity in Saudi Arabia.

Isn't the punishment for apostasy in that fun loving garden of eden death by stoning?

Hey man, if Christians are going to tell me that I'm going to hell, then I have the right to be a douche about my beliefs too. Its the 1st amendment yall.

 Frazzled wrote:
Hey once a Buddhist always a Buddhist.

This also belongs on a card of some time. What are some Buddhist holidays?

 Monster Rain wrote:

See, I disagree.

People enjoying a holiday differently than I do doesn't get me terribly bent out of shape.

Then why call the athiests "dicks?"

Palindrome wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Celebrate it your own secular way, but let others celebrate it in their own.

Isn't that what they were doing? This particular group were mearly putting out some stalls as a counterpoint to the Christian ones (which were still there). How is that preventing anyone from celebrating a holiday however they please? If you are going to rant about anyone try starting with the individuals who vandalised the stalls which arguably is the real reason this whole thing was stopped.

Yes, although anybody can see they were deliberatly crowding the Christian booths out of stall space. And this pressured the city into stopping the whole thing.

They're just being sneaky about it now. Which I think is even worse.

 Lint wrote:

 Monster Rain wrote:

See, I disagree.

People enjoying a holiday differently than I do doesn't get me terribly bent out of shape.

Then why call the athiests "dicks?"

I shouldn't have to point out the fact it is the behavior of the individuals in question that made them dicks, not the manner in which they celebrate Christmas.

Palindrome wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

I betcha thats not correct. I'm thinking there's remarkably little atheist activity in Saudi Arabia.

Isn't the punishment for apostasy in that fun loving garden of eden death by stoning?

Beats death by Rosie ODonnell.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Albatross wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:


Yea you pretty much can't have Christmas without Christ. Thats kind of the point.

You can have winter solstice, winter shopping season or dance to Babushka goddess of winter Walmart Borscht. But no, you can't have actual Christmas without Christ.

You're not in any real position to stop me. Sorry.






Actually, I'm not sorry. Merry Winterval!

And thats not Christmas. I guess you could celebrate TBone's first owner like I would Lincoln. But Christmas is a religious event. Unless you're a Christian, you kinda just don't get it.

Of course I do. I'm not from the moon, I just don't believe in sky-friends. My country has Protestant Christianity as its state religion, for Christ's sake!

I 'get' Christmas, Frazzled.

 LoneLictor wrote:
Hey man, if Christians are going to tell me that I'm going to hell, then I have the right to be a douche about my beliefs too. Its the 1st amendment yall.

But if you don't believe in hell, why the hell do you care?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albatross wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Albatross wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:


Yea you pretty much can't have Christmas without Christ. Thats kind of the point.

You can have winter solstice, winter shopping season or dance to Babushka goddess of winter Walmart Borscht. But no, you can't have actual Christmas without Christ.

You're not in any real position to stop me. Sorry.






Actually, I'm not sorry. Merry Winterval!

And thats not Christmas. I guess you could celebrate TBone's first owner like I would Lincoln. But Christmas is a religious event. Unless you're a Christian, you kinda just don't get it.

Of course I do. I'm not from the moon, I just don't believe in sky-friends. My country has Protestant Christianity as its state religion, for Christ's sake!

I 'get' Christmas, Frazzled.

But you can't celebrate it. As I said, its a religious service. It faith, like a Texas believing in snow. Do you feels me broham?
OK serious for one moment. You can enjoy the festivities etc. But Christmas is, at its heart, a very spiritual experience. UNless you are a believer, you literally won't get that part of it. Just like I won't get all the shades of deep meaning that a Hajj brings to the pilgrim.
Unserious mode off.

I think I will celebrate the Great Pasta Being tonight, but observing the Ritual of Pizza. Mmmm. order fresh pizza. Walk big dog in cold and night. Pick up pizza at end of walk. Big Dog and I share pizza and watch BSG season 1. Excellent.

 Frazzled wrote:
I betcha thats not correct. I'm thinking there's remarkably little atheist activity in Saudi Arabia.

Although I betcha that athiests in Saudi Arabia aren't all that bothered about Christians putting up nativity scenes outside of their churches and in public spaces... what with being more concerned about not getting stoned to death/imprisoned/etc by followers of the state religion.

Oh, wait, that is entirely accurate and gels exactly with what I said!

The fact is that even in a "tolerant" society like that in the USA, athiest billboards which were there fairly after whatever lottery/bidding system allowed them to be there, were vandalised by, one can only assume, "turn the other cheek" Christians.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
You Christians also stuck your churches on The Old Faith's places of worship in the Old World and turned it's Gods into your demons. Modern Christianity is a politically assimilating construct and Christmas is nowhere near Christ's believed birth date somewhen in September.

Not just the old faith's places of Worship. They were doing it in the 15 through 17th centuries.
It's common to find ruins of Portuguese Jesuit missions underneath the Catholic Spanish missions in California and Mexico. The Spaniards demolished the "lesser" buildings to replace them with their own (Spanish Catholics and Portuguese Jesuits didn't get on).

 Frazzled wrote:
But you can't celebrate it. As I said, its a religious service.

So, which particular branch of christianity celebrates it right?

Christmas in its current form is a Christian holiday, regardless of some elements being absorbed from other religions.

And hey, its still religious. Why are the Atheists trying to get in on it?


If Atheists truly wanted to be free of religion, they would have nothing to do with any established religious practices. They would go about their lives totally ignoring religion, and wouldn't care about what others think.

Because if Atheists are correct, it doesn't really matter what you believe, it all ends up in the same nothingness. So why do they keep trying to marginalize religion?

Our country was founded on Freedom of Religion, not Freedom from Religion.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Christmas in its current form is a Christian holiday, regardless of some elements being absorbed from other religions.

And hey, its still religious. Why are the Atheists trying to get in on it?

You can appreciate the message without wanting the religious trappings. Besides, the initial campaign wasn't about Athiests "taking over" Christmas, it was about one particular group of athiests disagreeing with Christians taking over public spaces promoting their religious messages.

If Atheists truly wanted to be free of religion, they would have nothing to do with any established religious practices. They would go about their lives totally ignoring religion, and wouldn't care about what others think.

Harder to do when your public spaces are filled up with people promoting their religious messages

Because if Atheists are correct, it doesn't really matter what you believe, it all ends up in the same nothingness. So why do they keep trying to marginalize religion?

Apparently around 70% of Americans are part of some kind of Christian group - I'd hardly call that marginalised

Our country was founded on Freedom of Religion, not Freedom from Religion.

You also have something called seperation of church and state - as the article in the OP shows, athiests have every right to take up public spaces at the same time as religious festivals occur, just as religious groups do

 Frazzled wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
Hey man, if Christians are going to tell me that I'm going to hell, then I have the right to be a douche about my beliefs too. Its the 1st amendment yall.

But if you don't believe in hell, why the hell do you care?

Because it hurts my feelings.

Also, I blame the Christians. They vandalized the atheist stuff, and then when everything got taken down they blamed the atheists.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Christmas in its current form is a Christian holiday, regardless of some elements being absorbed from other religions.

And hey, its still religious. Why are the Atheists trying to get in on it?

They are jealous of our Christmas hams and the awesome power of mistletoe. Wait what do you mean mistletoe is pag CURSE YOU DRUIDIC TREEHUGGERS!

If Atheists truly wanted to be free of religion, they would have nothing to do with any established religious practices. They would go about their lives totally ignoring religion, and wouldn't care about what others think.

Yep. I sure a great majority of them do. That requires being matured and having a centered sense of self worth. Its the ones that are stilld ealing with issues that have problems.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:
Hey man, if Christians are going to tell me that I'm going to hell, then I have the right to be a douche about my beliefs too. Its the 1st amendment yall.

But if you don't believe in hell, why the hell do you care?

Because it hurts my feelings.

Also, I blame the Christians. They vandalized the atheist stuff, and then when everything got taken down they blamed the atheists.

Buck up Khorne boy! If someone told me the fairy princess was going to eat all my shoes unless I repent, I wouldn't give it a second thought.

 AustonT wrote:

I sincerely hope this whole post is a blatant troll.

Ya think? Although I do have a warped sense of humour that doesn't quite gel with most people's.

Frazzled wrote:Who? Coconut eating T Rexes?

Indians.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Christmas in its current form is a Christian holiday, regardless of some elements being absorbed from other religions.

And hey, its still religious. Why are the Atheists trying to get in on it?

If Atheists truly wanted to be free of religion, they would have nothing to do with any established religious practices. They would go about their lives totally ignoring religion, and wouldn't care about what others think.

Because if Atheists are correct, it doesn't really matter what you believe, it all ends up in the same nothingness. So why do they keep trying to marginalize religion?

Our country was founded on Freedom of Religion, not Freedom from Religion.

Okay, now for some more serious points.
Try most elements of christmas.
As for your other points, that's just it. Most atheists *can't* go about their lives totally ignoring religion, although they'd love to. At least, I would. I'm making a pretty damn good effort, anyway.
Religions (christianity and islam especially, for some reason) tend not to look too kindly upon those that disagree with them, regardless of whether or not the dissenters are threatening or actively trying to subvert your beliefs. That right there is a very, very good reason to keep a very wary eye on any and all religious activity. But I think that's getting too in-depth and philosophical for this thread.

Now, I don't actually agree with what these atheists did - as said, it smacks of trolling, although as I mentioned earlier it started a couple of years ago with one man manning a stall/booth/whatever to make a counterpoint to all the christian imagery being thrown in people's faces in december. That I can respect and even agree with.
Getting organised to be appointed most of the booths just to block the churches - not so much.
Vandalising booths belonging to these atheists, because you got blindsided - also not cool.
Both parties were in the wrong, and I really do think the city was completely in the right when they said: "if neither of you can behave, then neither of you gets to have any stalls." That's just good parenting. Or governing, In this case, the two are pretty much synonymous.

I would call interfering with the celebration of a major holiday to be subverting my beliefs. I certaintly would not approve of vandalizing people's signs, but I think Atheists just need to accept that they live in a country with a Christian majority. And being the majority gives you some privilege in the ability to express your belief with a National Holiday.

Accept that Christians have this time of year for expressing their beliefs, and also Easter. And don't interfere with the expression of that belief.

If you don't like that, too bad. You can leave the country or just deal with it.


Set up your own holiday if you want.

Grey Templar wrote:I would call interfering with the celebration of a major holiday to be subverting my beliefs. I certaintly would not approve of vandalizing people's signs, but I think Atheists just need to accept that they live in a country with a Christian majority. And being the majority gives you some privilege in the ability to express your belief with a National Holiday.

Accept that Christians have this time of year for expressing their beliefs, and also Easter. And don't interfere with the expression of that belief.

If you don't like that, too bad. You can leave the country or just deal with it.


Set up your own holiday if you want.

It was the Christians who interfered with the atheists in the news article. They vandalized the signs, and as a result all the religious stuff got banned.

Vandalizing the signs was wrong.

However this is a situation of the Atheists provoking people into action.

Plus we don't know who exactly was responsible for the vandalizing. I can assure you that the Church's leadership didn't decide to go vandalize them. It was probably a younger member who was a little sick of the stupidness Atheists try to pull each year.


Thus its really is the Atheists fault for provoking such actions. Doesn't absolve the person who commited them of the sin, but the greater blame is on the person who provoked them.

Its like Hamas shooting rockets at Israel. They deliberatly provoke Israel into shooting back so they can cause civilian casualties to make Israel look like the bad guy.