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It seems that either 1000 marines is not the accurate number, or it is impossible to have an entire Company on foot, if they are also going to be transported into battle. Because at least one Tactical squad would have to be designated as vehicle crews, so you could field a max of 5 full tactical squads with the sixth squad being spread among the transport vehicles.

If going by the Ultramarines codex from 2nd edition, each Rhino has a single Space Marine driver- no gunner. The storm bolters are evidently operated by him, coupled with a targetter.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
It seems that either 1000 marines is not the accurate number, or it is impossible to have an entire Company on foot, if they are also going to be transported into battle. Because at least one Tactical squad would have to be designated as vehicle crews, so you could field a max of 5 full tactical squads with the sixth squad being spread among the transport vehicles.

As Lynata suggested, the drivers could be drawn from the reserve companies. I don't think that that's how it works, but it is a viable alternative.

1hadhq wrote:Trained as crew isn't equal to act as crew. You may have a drivers license. Doesn't mean you get to drive MY car.
There is a decision made, who gets a position and as multi-role-trained as the marines are, I'd expect to see the most talented assigned to a certain duty. Also the techmarines may have a veto if one isn't paying respect and mistreats the machine.

Trained as crew obviously is equal to can act as crew - otherwise they wouldn't receive such training. As the Codex fluff says, being a driver is not a permanent position but something where every Space Marine is supposed to be able to pitch in - exchanging their pauldron markings for the duration of the mission. And whilst I certainly agree with the assumption that drivers would be selected from amongst the most proficient warriors where available, it'd still not be full-time job. Aside from Sergeant Chronus' unique position in the Ultramarines Chapter, of course.

Either way, every single Space Marine being trained and having a chance to be scheduled to drive the Razorback or the Land Raider, but not the Rhino as the one big exception of all Marine tanks, is just something that doesn't sound all that likely to me. Is that really the position you're having here?

Lynata wrote:Or if a specialist is at hand, are maintained wherever this person finds a workplace acceptable enough.

So they just park this one vehicle in front of the fortress-monastery instead of putting it with the others?

Crimson wrote:As Lynata suggested, the drivers could be drawn from the reserve companies. I don't think that that's how it works, but it is a viable alternative.

I would think that this isn't the norm, too. It sounds more likely that in the event where an entire Company is fielded, it would disseminate its own troops as drivers - and fill any gaps with squads from the Reserve, drawing upon the type of squad most needed for the mission. As the Codex notes, most engagements have a Battle Company reinforced by elements of the Reserve. So perhaps the Battle Company will just take one Tactical squad for the Rhinos, and then add one squad from the Reserve?

That is assuming that a Company desperately wants to have ten squads of infantry on the battlefield, of course. I do not believe that this would be regarded as some sort of "golden rule" in the Astartes. Given the mobility and adaptability displayed thus far, it just seems far more likely that they'd bring whatever appears most useful for the given task.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
It seems that either 1000 marines is not the accurate number, or it is impossible to have an entire Company on foot, if they are also going to be transported into battle. Because at least one Tactical squad would have to be designated as vehicle crews, so you could field a max of 5 full tactical squads with the sixth squad being spread among the transport vehicles.

If going by the Ultramarines codex from 2nd edition, each Rhino has a single Space Marine driver- no gunner. The storm bolters are evidently operated by him, coupled with a targetter.

That's why I really like my idea. Around a chapter there would have to be a whole eco-system of crippled marines who can no longer fight (but are not worthy of a dreadnought), failed aspriants would have made great marines but whose implants did not take, worthy serfs given an honorary title etc.

So you have lots of semi-marines, former-marines, would-be marines and just as they make us space ship crews, PDF and maintenance is it such a stretch they would be the ones driving rhinos or acting as gunners on predators?

I don't see failed marines serving as crew on combat vehicles as they are unable to survive the same environments as marines.
It's also akin to men who wash out of the real world military still being allowed to drive the tanks and other combat vehicles of the army - no one would really want that. Crippled marines or recovering marines for sure.

In one of the Iron Snakes books, their 10-man squad drives a Rhino to a village, and it's being driven by one of their squad. 8 of them get out and search the village while the other 2 stay in the Rhino and follow. Makes sense tactically, since they had access to its searchlight, vox system and heavy weapon, as well as a quick getaway vehicle if things get frakked.

I can also see their vehicles being piloted by chapter serfs or servitors.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Thanks for that RT quote! I remembered it but have never been able to find it.

I still think crippled/failed marines as drivers is still the simplest answer that contradicts the least fluff

actually it contradicts one of the more important pieces of the fluff and that is it being able to easily reapair it on the battlefield

now how does a crippled marine do this hmm???

SPACE MARINE RHINO DRIVER

Brother 'Cabbie' Remus coaxed the tempermental vehicle into fifth gear, roaring out of killzone and then skilfully jamming the brakes to bring the Rhino sliding to a
to a halt behind a rock outcropping in what his driving instructor would have described as a perfect 'Combat Drift.' Squad Talassius grumbled noisily, their
armoured pauldrons jostling into each other in the cramped confines of the transport as they were thrown about by the manoeuvre. Sargeant Dumas patted
him on the shoulder pad, making an odd thumping noise next to his ear. 'Alright, Cabbie. We'll take it from here. Talassius, form up on me, you know the drill!'

Remus sighed as the last of the squad clumped out of the fire ports, their bolters already chanting death, their echoes resounding hollow in the now empty transport.
Two hundred and fifty years as a glorified autocab driver, disposable cover, and fire magnet, and not once had a single passenger expressed an iota of gratitude. It was as if
he and his fellow drivers were taken completely for granted, delivering inch-perfect movement every mobilisation to their exacting Force Commander but nevertheless an invisible, un-acknowledged, forgotten minority. Forced to sit in cramped positions hours on end, in vehicles clearly never designed for Power-Armoured crew, while the Tacticals seized the lion's share of the glory again and again... Oh, how he wished to soar in the skies with the Assault company, if only for just one mission... and leave the tedium of ferrying Talassius behind to someone else...

Remus' reverie was cut short with the short-band crackling to life. It was Sargeant Dumas. 'Cabbie, we need you to uh, move around into the path of the Defiler at coordinates two-fiver-zero to buy us some time to set up the Em-em. Copy?' Remus sighed and gunned the engine into life.

I think every chapter probably has a different approach to crewing the Rhinos and other vehicles, depending on their manpower status, i.e. decimated chapters would have servitors or injured marines doing the driving, and more full strength Chapters having access marines to train up in the Rhino role. It does seem that once you're proven good at something the Chapter kind of pigeonholes you into that task, which makes sense, I suppose.

With regard to the Ravenwing, the Dark Angels are the exception to common rule because all their fast-attack vehicles are the sole provenance of the 2nd Company, in their allotted role of reconnaissance and pursuit of suspicious individuals. The Ravenwing comic in the Warhammer Monthly in years past (highly recommended!) characterised 2nd Company riders and pilots to be generally reckless speed freaks and prize daring above all else in their assaults- the Ravenwing motto being 'SPEED KILLS!', and they have the Viper pilot / Fast Jet jockey attitude commiserate with their role, pushing and upgrading their tech ever to the limit. Ravenwing are the cocky Top Gun fighter/biker jocks of the Space Marines, and that's why they are so awesome.

Techmarines probably serve as crew in Codex Chapters, but the DA don't trust them, so they're mostly relegated to a support role in the chapter, as Ravenwing take over the fast attack craft duties and 'Ironwing' marines serve the heavier tank support elements.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
[That's why I really like my idea. Around a chapter there would have to be a whole eco-system of crippled marines who can no longer fight (but are not worthy of a dreadnought), failed aspriants would have made great marines but whose implants did not take, worthy serfs given an honorary title etc.

Indeed, I concur.

I know the Black Library books are generally non-canon, right? But there is one that talks about how there is something called a "Mimesis Engine", which is for all intents and purposes the Danger Room from X-men. Anyway, one of the plot elements was a single Space Marine was in charge of maintaining it, and it's explicitly explained as a plot point that his body rejected some of the gene seed, so he could not be a fighting marine. I suppose personnel like this are not counted in the "1,000" figure.

It's actually kind of a cool story.

They just weld up "problem" marines into crew compartments, and call them "machine spirits"...feed them through a little metal slit..a few raw steaks a week, and they do their bussines in the corner, grimdark strikes again!