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2013/03/18 03:51:03
Subject: Re:Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute... 6 1/2 of 7 posted (Game 6 completed!!!)
Essentially my thoughts were on the mission.
Have more value of units in quarters, fliers didnt count towards quarters either.
Your army had 470 pts in fliers.
Since your army had 2 really deadly/resilient units with the Tzeencth Prince having 2+ armour saves w/ re-rolls and Iron Arm, and the D Lord/ Wraithball. If I could kill both those units, the game would be mine to lose. I figured I would have such a point advantage, I would win quarters, and negate you getting last turn......if I failed to kill the deathstar units and they get into me at the same time, the game would be lost, and you would clean me up.
I figured if I picked the right time to go after your Prince, or your Wraiths, without overextending, I would gain the upperhand.
I really couldnt do much about your fliers with you having 2nd half of the turn, so I would try to ignore them as much as possible, especially since they didnt count towards quarters.
2013/03/18 05:44:04
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute... 6 1/2 of 7 posted (Game 6 completed!!!)
I'm not really seeing the mobility of Han's list. In an objectives-based scenario, what is really important is the mobility of the scoring units. None of his troops are mobile. He's already at a distinct disadvantage to start with.
With Iron Arm, your DP is going to be hard to kill. I predict that he survives this time, assuming you don't fall for a bait assault meant to get him on the ground. And as long as you watch out for his deathmarks, I think you will take this game.
you asked about feedback so here is my:
- i would love to read your tactical reasoning etc since that is most important to me
- It would be great to be able to look into more pictures to feel your decisions/options better
great stuff overall keep it coming!
2013/03/18 13:19:15
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute... 6 1/2 of 7 posted (Game 6 completed!!!)
jy2 wrote:I'm not really seeing the mobility of Han's list. In an objectives-based scenario, what is really important is the mobility of the scoring units. None of his troops are mobile. He's already at a distinct disadvantage to start with.
With Iron Arm, your DP is going to be hard to kill. I predict that he survives this time, assuming you don't fall for a bait assault meant to get him on the ground. And as long as you watch out for his deathmarks, I think you will take this game.
Interesting analysis we will see if mobility is an issue I will post the report tonight.
Fikol wrote:Hi,
excellent report and good generalship
you asked about feedback so here is my:
- i would love to read your tactical reasoning etc since that is most important to me
- It would be great to be able to look into more pictures to feel your decisions/options better
great stuff overall keep it coming!
Thanks for the compliments and feedback. I try to cover the general picture and if there anything in particular you want my view point on let me know. Since this is the finals I am gonna do a recreation of the battle with vassal and will post 2 full turns a day starting tonight.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Mizzouri wrote:I look forward to the final battle with Vassal illustrations.
Ya know, if this list is still undefeated maybe a certain GK/SW player needs to issue a challenge.
If no one wants it I am not gonna put the time and effort into doing the vassal report.
Dozer Blades wrote:Two turns a day is way too slow! Just skip the Vassal to speed up the report.
Time got away from me tonight I will try and put it up tomorrow.
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:yeah vassal is superfluous, just go right ahead.
Necron cheese on necron cheese with CSM cheese: I predict DP will come up tops as your DP SMASH and helldrake roasts his units with impunity.
All I can say to this is . What do you consider Necron Cheese? We have two very different list?
spaguatyrine wrote:I will challenge this list....
Bring it punk.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Round 7:
Opponent: Hanz Krueger
His army: Necrons
Mission: 7 (Crusade and Table Quarters)
Deployment: Spearhead
Daemon Prince boon: The boon is +1 AS ; Powers TZ: Breath of Chaos Bio: Iron Arm; Warp Speed
We roll off to go first and he wins the roll to go first. It will also be night fight turn 1.
His army on the right... mine scattered on the left next to some chili-mac.... lmao! That is the board we play on as well. I have left corner his deployment zone mirrors that in the right.
His army:
HQ Trazyn the Infinite (warlord) 175 pts (In night scythe)
ROYAL COURT
Cryptek (Harbringer of Storm w/ voltaic staff) 25 pts (In the ghost Ark)
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts (with death marks)
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts (with death marks2)
Necron Overlord 130 pts (In ghost ark)
(Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, Mind-Schackle Scarabs)
ROYAL COURT
Cryptek (Staff of Light) 25pts
Cryptek (Harbringer of Storm w/ voltaic staff) 25 pts (In the Ghost Ark)
Cryptek (Harbringer of Despair w/abyssal staff) 30 pts (with deak marks2)
FAST ATTACK
5 x Canoptek Wraiths 175 pts
5 x Canoptek Wraiths (1 x whip coils) 185 pts
TROOPS
5 x Necron Warriors 65 pts (Ghost Ark dedicated transport) 115 pts
5 x Necron Immortals (Tesla) 85 pts
5 x Necron Immortals (Gauss) 85 pts
ELITE
5 x Deathmarks 95 pts
(NightScythe dedicated transport) 100pts
5 x Deathmarks 95 pts
(NightScythe dedicated transport) 100pt
Pre-game Analysis: After all is said and done we have a rematch of last years finals. It was a painful loss I took to Hanz and his Imotekh lead Necrons(http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/437597.page). This year doesnt have the storm lord but his list is just as brutal. His Ghost arc is a high priority target. It is the one thing in his army that can relaible wreck my AV13. In addition, his army has a lot of mobility just like mine. I have a feeling this fight will be a hard fought one whatever the outcome. I am feeling pretty good about getting Iron arm and +1 AS but I figure he will shoot me with deathmarks wounding me on a 2+ either way. I plan for removing his AB's is to focus fire on them with all 3 of mine at once. I will have to drop back and stay out of range and pounce with all my fires at once. I have to keep my wraiths away from his Annihilation barge's because the amount of dakka they can throw down can really hurt the wraiths and I have a feeling I will be needing them.
Opponents Pre-game Analysis:
Norbu the Destroyer wrote: Essentially my thoughts were on the mission.
Have more value of units in quarters, fliers didnt count towards quarters either.
Your army had 470 pts in fliers.
Since your army had 2 really deadly/resilient units with the Tzeencth Prince having 2+ armour saves w/ re-rolls and Iron Arm, and the D Lord/ Wraithball. If I could kill both those units, the game would be mine to lose. I figured I would have such a point advantage, I would win quarters, and negate you getting last turn......if I failed to kill the deathstar units and they get into me at the same time, the game would be lost, and you would clean me up.
I figured if I picked the right time to go after your Prince, or your Wraiths, without overextending, I would gain the upperhand.
I really couldnt do much about your fliers with you having 2nd half of the turn, so I would try to ignore them as much as possible, especially since they didnt count towards quarters.
Please Note: Pictures are a recreation and are not 100% accurate. I am forming this all from memory from nearly 3 weeks ago and 6 test ago.
Deployment is as follows:
He deploys with his wratihs back and his Ghost Ark side ways on the front line. I place all of mine around 33" away trying to deny him shots unless he moves far enough to snap fire.
Game Turn: 1
Spoiler:
NECRONS TURN: 1 He moves up pretty cautiously not wanting to give up first blood or give me the first shots. Not much happens.
NECRONS/CSM TURN: 1 I move to get cover saves and pull back the wraiths some as we both kind of move to gauge are opponents weakness. I get Iron arm off and get +3 T/S. I move the prince up north which seems to be his general direction of travel. Hoping to get the prince in combat this next turn or possibly strike the first blow on a target of opportunity.
Game Turn: 2
NECRONS TURN: 2
Spoiler:
Both of my opponents night scythe with death marks come in... They head straight for the prince. All of his vehicles also move up to take shots at the prince. The prince makes the 2 saves he is required to take and makes his grounding test. He just took an armies worth of dakka.
Early Game Analysis:
Spoiler:
I really would like to get the prince into some wraiths for some instant killing goodness though they could rend me and make it hurt. The 2nd big target is the ghost arc with a scoring units in it, mobility, anti-armor, and a combat threat (plus its table quarters). The catch is the deathmarks... if I make this charge even if I can bring down his fliers he can still walk on and roast me. Am I about to throw my prince away for what I believe is a mission essential task...
NECRONS/CSM TURN: 2
Spoiler:
Apologies he got one of his squads in from reserve last turn and hill on top right is slightly off fixed both.
I get 2 of my night scythes in from reserves and the best way to counter necron air is with necron air so their targets are easy to identify. A unit of warriors comes on in my right corner setting up for a late objective grab. The Daemon prince gets Iron arm off again for +3. He moves in on the ghost ark. If I can take out all of his mobility it might give me the edge I need considering my table quarters issue and fliers not counting. The wraiths move up some to get just out of charge range of his but still in a good range to charge. All 3 barge's move up and shoot his AB but he makes a save or two and I only cause 2 hp's on the closest barge. The daemon prince puts a breath on the ghost ark and the AB sitting behind it doing a hp to each. He charges in and explodes the vehicle. The night scythes take out both of his night scythes. I have secured first blood and dealt a solid blow to my opponents mobility but it is probably gonna cost me.
NECRONS TURN: 3
Spoiler:
The last unit of immortals comes in from reserve. The deathmarks walk on from reserve right in front of the prince. The AB with 1 HP pulls back and fires into the wraiths. The back wraiths move up to prepare for a possible charge at the prince. The wraiths in the center move up for a possible charge on the prince as well. The Overlord joins the middle wraiths and his warriors + Voltaic crypteks move back. Neither charge is needed on the prince though as the deathmarks rend 3 times and the abyss staffs all wound. The prince goes down hopefully not in vain. One AB shoots at a doom scythe but he stays in the sky. his immortals on the left flank move up some into the ruins to hide from a possible heldrake attack.
NECRONS/CSM TURN: 3
Spoiler:
This part of the game is real hazy but I will get the general details in.
I roll for reserves and get a cultist squad and one of the night scythe. Would of been nice to get the heldrake to hit those deathmarks. I scythe leaves the board. I shoot and kill a wraith with 2 of the AB's. The wraiths and the dlord decide to go for the kill on his overlord + wraiths. I managed to kill a couple and we get into a challenge and each of us takes a wound. Lock combat. I finally finish off his barge with 1 hp. The picture does most of the talking I suppose for movements. Forgot to include it but I kill a few deathmarks.
NECRONS TURN: 4
Spoiler:
He moves his warriors and voltaic squad back. Both deathmarks squads move and charge the wraiths along with his wraiths to form a giant combat in the middle. I believe this is when he kills off the remainder of the wraiths. The destroyer lord fails MSS and dies as well. His AB stuns my night scythe in the center. Rough guesstimate on distance consolidated. Somewhere in here he immobilizes one of my night scythes and I think he wrecked one somewhere as well its hard to remember without notes, 5 to 6 test and 3 weeks to forget, my apologizes.
Late Game Analysis:
Spoiler:
Alright that one hurt a little. I needed something to work for me in the combat and it just didnt. Oh well it managed to slows him down some I suppose. But not he is centrally located and has some fast moving wraiths that I dont necessarily have an answer for. It is time to go big or go home I suppose. I am seriously worried about table quarters at this point as I am running out of points. I really need the heldrake to be big for me here.
NECRONS/CSM TURN: 4
Spoiler:
The Heldrake finally comes in from reserves and fires at his back warriors squad killing 5 of the 6 models there... They all make their reanimation protocols. I move the night scythe at the top over to his corner and disembark to contest his ruins. One squad of warriors walks in behind the cultist as that table quarter isn't looking too strong. I finish off the small unit of immortals and try to hurt his wraiths to no avail. The immobilized scythe leaves the board. I shoot one AB at his AB but only do 1 HP.
NECRONS TURN: 5
Spoiler:
His 5 wraiths advance into my table qrtr on the right flank. His 2 wraiths jump into my left table qrtr and charge my AB and manage to take off the bottom gun. Trazyn runs towards the center as a scoring unit. He dakka's my warriors on his objective but I go to ground for the improved save and make the reanimation on the guys that fail. The other immortals squad charges them and we each lose a guy and I make the reanimation. Lock Combat on his objective. His AB moves 12" into my qrtr and turns around and shoots the Heldrake out of the sky.
NECRONS/CSM TURN: 5
Spoiler:
The nighy scythe in reserves comes on 36" and drops its guys in the middle to contest that objective. I shoot the AB's in the right corner at the wraiths again and they make their saves. The warriors in that corner try to help but again no such luck. They are unkillable. The AB on the left flank backs up and shoots at trazyn and does a wound or two. I shoot at his wraiths in the corner but they live. I am playing for the game to end here as I am contesting two and holding 2 and I will have 2 table qrtrs to 2 table qrtrs. Scythe leaves the board.(messed up something along the lines but important thing is its still alive.)
He elects to make the roll to continue the game as I made a clutch one in game 6 to win it:
Spoiler:
He rolls a 5! I really needed the game to end there. This could very well cost me the game.
NECRONS TURN: 6
Spoiler:
His wraiths move up and charge my warriors in the right corner killing them off. His 2 wraiths in the left corner move up and finish off the AB there. His AB in that corner shoots at the middle squad of warriors and kills 3 but something ridiculous happens. As a necron player its painful to watch and it is the price of such an awesome weapon. The tesla arcs into trazyn and deals out his final 2 wounds. He fails his reanimation protocol but does spawn with another squad. In the top right corner his warriors move and try to run towards that objective but barely fall short. The combat in the top left remains a locked combat. His deathmarks try to run into my bottom right corner but cant quite make it over. I make 2 re animations in the middle.
If game ends right now I win objectives but lose table quarters and he has line breaker and slay the warlord and I have line breaker and first blood. However, he is winning on victory points by a good margin. So I will need to stay in combat in the top left and work on taking these corners back. Time is close but we are informed that if the roll is made to go to 7 turns we will be playing 7 turns... . If that happens I will most likely lose the game.
NECRONS/CSM TURN: 6
Spoiler:
With the option for extra turns I move the night scythe off the board to make sure I got targets that need eliminated. The right corner I move back over 6" to make it into my own right table corner to beat his wraiths out there with 180pts to 175pts in the corner. (every pt counts). The AB in that corner shoots and finally manages to kill his last 2 wraiths. The 5 warriors in the left corner move up and dakka his barge along with the warriors from the middle. It is enough though and I do the final hp to it and wreck it. My warriors on his side again lock combat warriors arent great at fighting and neither are immortals. I now have 2 table quarters to his 2 table quarters and 2 objectives to his none. Now to see if the game continues and for me to try and defend my lead for another turn....
This time I am allowed to make the roll and naturally I roll a
Spoiler:
and the game ends. That was a grueling hard fought match. Sorry for a few mess ups in the report. It is hard to remember all the moving pieces and this month was crazy for my training down here.
Game Results/Post Game Analysis:
Spoiler:
Necrons/CSM: 7
Necrons: 4
The Ugly Misfits Win it all.
Post Game Analysis: That game a close one. As any championship match should be. It was back and forths for most of the game and still came down to the wire pulling it out. Having the extra turns nearly cost me in this one. If I had to go back and change anything I would probably change the charge with the wraiths. Perhaps waiting one more turn to hit him and lock that combat. As for the prince, sure it sucked losing him but the effect he had was 3 fold. I had removed his mobility. That was a scoring troop that didnt capture an objective in the game. I had kept all of his nasty deathmarks squads located in one area. He had to take out the prince. So with everything on foot from that point along with all centerally located I knew my left flank was secure. That qrtr was won with a cultist squad and a warrior squad. Though the cultist held it for the most of the game without fear of being taken out. After all is said and done though the MVP is clear. The warriors that contested his objective and locked that combat for the game were huge. It made him turn around with his immortals that were heading for my cultist and/or table qrtr.
Game analysis and then tournament analysis to follow... later[/spoiler]
Tournament Results/Analysis:
The Ugly Misfits ended 7-0 and scored 70 of 72 battle points. Granting me my first actual Best General Award.
The Indy Open wins the award for best Trophy I have seen for an event. It is a 3 dimensional wrecked tank from mechanical warhorse.
As for the event itself I will reiterate that it is my favorite GT of the season. The judges are knowledgeable and easy to work with... well all of them except Spag who bust my chops ... (Me: Does he have cover? "YES!"(from two tables away)... you didnt even look. But seriously the even was very well run. It stayed on a pretty tight schedule and posted the pairings up in a timely manner so there wasnt a mad dash for a table when the round was beginning. Literally have improves for the way the tournament was managed and/or ran. My only real complaint is I am not a fan of Relic myself but that might just be a personal preference and they seemed to balance it out with the other missions combined with them. You could tell they put a lot of thought and time into their table setup and mission development.
Oh and one more take. At first I didnt think I would like community dice for every table but it was kind of fun playing it that way and not having to worry about getting dice out all the time. Just grab a handful from somewhere on the side and roll em. Schedule willing I will return next year for my third trip to the Indy GT.
For those asking about Adepticon it doesnt look good at the moment. I am slotted for training up to the 19th of April and training takes priority. So unless something happens and the trianing finishes early or something I probably will be unable to make at least the champs. Haven't decided whether just the team tournament is worth the long as drive or not. Dear Adepticon, why start a GT on a Thursday Morning?
This message was edited 19 times. Last update was at 2013/03/20 04:26:47
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Dozer Blades wrote:My prediction is the anni barges will prevail.
Necron versus Necron... Sweet!
Well his damn Anni barge was crazy as well. For 90pts they are hard as hell to kill.
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Why did you charge the Ghost Ark? If you locked his Wraiths / whoever else in combat, he wouldn't be able to shoot the DP.
Also bad luck on the Helldrake not showing for 2 turns and then getting blown out of the sky
I'm literally refreshing as you're typing, this is very exciting.
The wraiths were out of range and I risked dying to his deathmarks either way.
The heldrake was sorely needed and personally he seemed a little hungover when he did show up. Definitely a counseling going in his file.
That is what i was trying to do with this one give the feel of a live match in a way. Its different.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Hmm, in hindsight his list was way weaker than yours- too top heavy in the HQ selection and lacking in mobility.
Doesn't help you killed all his flyers/transports by turn 2.
His entire army failing to down your DP was huge, but I guess it balanced out with the helldrake dying and doing 0 dmg and your wraiths+lord getting wrecked in combat.
He was looking pretty strong in turn 3, but bad luck with the arc sealed it for you I think!
Not so having Anni Barges on the other side of the table now, isn't it
Asmodai Asmodean wrote: Hmm, in hindsight his list was way weaker than yours- too top heavy in the HQ selection and lacking in mobility.
Doesn't help you killed all his flyers/transports by turn 2.
His entire army failing to down your DP was huge, but I guess it balanced out with the helldrake dying and doing 0 dmg and your wraiths+lord getting wrecked in combat.
He was looking pretty strong in turn 3, but bad luck with the arc sealed it for you I think!
Not so having Anni Barges on the other side of the table now, isn't it
I would have to disagree. I really dig his list personally. I have thought about running the deathmarks myself and now seeing them in action only increases the chance that I finally buy the models. Also I forgot trazyn was scoring. In this addition that makes him worth his weight in gold. The one big thing I might change is dropping the immortals. Personally I dont like them over the warriors but YMMV. Had he got a 7th turn he most likely would of been able to eek it out on me.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Very well done. That last game was real close. It looked like your opponent almost had you before his luck ran out. BTW, nice job taking out his mobility.
jy2 wrote: Very well done. That last game was real close. It looked like your opponent almost had you before his luck ran out. BTW, nice job taking out his mobility.
Congrats on winning your first GT!
Thanks I appreciate it. Helped redeemed last years massacre of the 56th MID. What did you think of the new style of reporting the finals? Last time I reported it turn by turn throughout the night. Might try it sometime. Gives the feel of a live game in a way.
Also Hanz if you have any take on the game that you want to add or you see anything that I totally jacked up let me know and I will police it up.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
Great work, TK. Congratulations going all the way with an unconventional list. It didn't seem many people believed in the Prince, but like you've said, he combines with the rest of your list extremely well. It seems like he's just enough to push the number of fast, resilient threats over the top. An entire army shooting at him to no avail being the case in point!
Also, thanks for putting this together. I think your reporting style worked well, very enjoyable to read, but I do wish you had more photos in there. Even one or two per game would really help make sense of things. I would also consider expanding the spoilers to cover entire game turns instead of player turns. 10+ spoilers can be a little confusing (or just annoying) at times. Now please go win another GT and do this all again from scratch.
2013/03/20 13:10:22
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute...7 of 7 posted(GT REPORT COMPLETED)
whigwam wrote: Great work, TK. Congratulations going all the way with an unconventional list. It didn't seem many people believed in the Prince, but like you've said, he combines with the rest of your list extremely well. It seems like he's just enough to push the number of fast, resilient threats over the top. An entire army shooting at him to no avail being the case in point!
Also, thanks for putting this together. I think your reporting style worked well, very enjoyable to read, but I do wish you had more photos in there. Even one or two per game would really help make sense of things. I would also consider expanding the spoilers to cover entire game turns instead of player turns. 10+ spoilers can be a little confusing (or just annoying) at times. Now please go win another GT and do this all again from scratch.
Glad it was a good read. I like discussing tactics and conducting AAR's after games to see where the big decisions were either made or failed to be made. It extends to my reporting as well. As for the pictures, I usually take a lot. You can see the link in the final thread from last years indy open where I had lost to hanz in the finals. Another factor working into this tournament is my phone was dead and I had been awake 40+ hours starting off the tournament. Day 2 I could of gotten in more pictures but with only 6 hours of sleep wasn't exactly feeling rested.
Though come April I might have a lot of down time. Might finish the old reports that I have started or have yet to start as I have pictures on the camera I was unable to get too...
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
I think the Vassal reports did a good job of showing how our game went. It took me 4 turns to knock out both death star units. The game boiled down to could your army hold on to the 2 quarters in your deployment zone. As it turns out, they could. The later the game went the more my points advantage was working for me.
And Trazyn......I cant believe that ann. barge shot of mine arced into him, hit 6 times, wounded him 3, and then he fails 2 of the 3+ rolls to die right before charging those warriors in the center. I had some rolls go my way to be sure, but when that happened I had a real bad feeling of how the game was going to turn out, and after that, none of my back up plans worked either (warriors of mine didnt get 3" run they needed to get an objective, deathmarks didnt move more than 4" that turn even with running to clear their table quarter, 2 units of Immortals shooting and charging couldnt disloge 5 warriors) and then the game ended. I got Matt Warded by my own codex.
Im glad it was close, and you played a great game. Congratz again on the win.
2013/03/20 16:26:31
Subject: Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute...7 of 7 posted(GT REPORT COMPLETED)
Hi there i wanted to touch on something that is probably already well known to those of you that play in lots of tournaments and dedicate most of your free time to this game but... Blackmoors comment about every army having a counter i think is not really true. Now perhaps this is because i havent the time/cash/inclination to buy 5 different armies and paint them all but i play only one army, DA. My codex is new and shiny and has lots of new special rules. Now if i try to use just my codex and come up with a solution to this army that tombking has just played, there is no codex pure option that i could ever imagine that could compete in all facets of the game with such an army. While i know i have a long way to go in terms of tactical acumen, the blunt caveat to the, "everyone has a counter" comment is that you have to have acess to the resources to compete, and frankly not everyone does.
Now as to the battles and reports, i want to say i appreciate your reports. Being a graduate student i dont get enough games to learn all the tactical tricks on my own and having battlereports of this type is important though without pictures is not as useful since movement is where most games are decided. I also need to learn how to deal with lists such as this even if they make me want to slam someones front teeth in the ground from frustration. Congratulations on your victory. It does make me wonder why forgeworld is so frowned on when lists like these two play for the final trophy. The reports sugguested you only really played one competitive opponent, but you put youself in postion to win the tournament, and that takes somes doing. Take your rest sir, you have earned it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/20 20:39:58
Tomb Kings army is powerful, but I cant imagine Dark Angels dont have anything to counter it with. My army had 2 flyers, and both were shot down turn 2. His army had 4 flying vehicles, and a flying monster. It came down to just a few dice rolls deciding the game. My army was pretty straight forward. The only army it matches up well against is meched up transport armies, that went away with the new edition. It just didnt have a major weakness vs whats currently out there. I would try to find something similr with Dark Angels. Finding well rounded units and getting practice games in goes a lot further than trying to buy the latest toys to keep up with the arms race.
Norbu the Destroyer wrote:I think the Vassal reports did a good job of showing how our game went. It took me 4 turns to knock out both death star units. The game boiled down to could your army hold on to the 2 quarters in your deployment zone. As it turns out, they could. The later the game went the more my points advantage was working for me.
And Trazyn......I cant believe that ann. barge shot of mine arced into him, hit 6 times, wounded him 3, and then he fails 2 of the 3+ rolls to die right before charging those warriors in the center. I had some rolls go my way to be sure, but when that happened I had a real bad feeling of how the game was going to turn out, and after that, none of my back up plans worked either (warriors of mine didnt get 3" run they needed to get an objective, deathmarks didnt move more than 4" that turn even with running to clear their table quarter, 2 units of Immortals shooting and charging couldnt disloge 5 warriors) and then the game ended. I got Matt Warded by my own codex.
Im glad it was close, and you played a great game. Congratz again on the win.
I appreciate it man. We are 1 and 1 now. We will need a third match to decide the series. haha. Were you surprised at all when I went for the ghost ark with the prince? What were your thoughts on that move? I knew it was a big risk but I needed to take out your anti-mech and mobility and figured that was a two for one.
Dozer Blades wrote:I lost Crowe one time to a Tesla arc. They are totally random and swing the direction of the game.
Norbu's list reminds me of a classic 5th edition list while TK's is more in tune with 6th edition (IMO).
I stand by it that I like his list and wouldnt mind running it myself. The deathmark/cryptek combo is very good and can really hurt MEQ armies out there. Also the two units of wraiths are hard to stop. A S6 T3 2W 3++ times 10 is hard to deal with as you could see if you can roll a 3+ save then there isnt much you can do about them. I thought about running two myself but decided the prince was more versatile and brings a similar threat to the table.
Polythemus wrote:Hi there i wanted to touch on something that is probably already well known to those of you that play in lots of tournaments and dedicate most of your free time to this game but... Blackmoors comment about every army having a counter i think is not really true. Now perhaps this is because i havent the time/cash/inclination to buy 5 different armies and paint them all but i play only one army, DA. My codex is new and shiny and has lots of new special rules. Now if i try to use just my codex and come up with a solution to this army that tombking has just played, there is no codex pure option that i could ever imagine that could compete in all facets of the game with such an army. While i know i have a long way to go in terms of tactical acumen, the blunt caveat to the, "everyone has a counter" comment is that you have to have acess to the resources to compete, and frankly not everyone does.
Now as to the battles and reports, i want to say i appreciate your reports. Being a graduate student i dont get enough games to learn all the tactical tricks on my own and having battlereports of this type is important though without pictures is not as useful since movement is where most games are decided. I also need to learn how to deal with lists such as this even if they make me want to slam someones front teeth in the ground from frustration. Congratulations on your victory. It does make me wonder why forgeworld is so frowned on when lists like these two play for the final trophy. The reports sugguested you only really played one competitive opponent, but you put youself in postion to win the tournament, and that takes somes doing. Take your rest sir, you have earned it.
Most list have at least one hard counter. It is hard to encompass all builds with just one TAC build. I can feel you on the time. Last spring I was taking 27 credit hours. IMO forgeworld is usually fround upon because its an added set of rules, that in some cases are a bit OP. I am personally not a fan of FW rules. Though I like the models. The reports suggested incorrectly then. What you saw is that if the list hit as it was suppose to then the game was an uphill battle for my opponent. When it was disrupted the game was very much a pitched fight. Games 6 and 7 in particular both came down to when the game was going to end.
As for the dark angels. I think they work best with allies currently. They are very expensive on a model to model basis. I had a very controversial 4 land raider build with my dark angels that some people hated and others loved. You can find it through my profile and threads I posted. It was in the army list forum. In addition, if you like the reports I have a few with detailed photo's in them in my profile as well. Thanks again and I hope my report helped on some of the decision making and detailed some of the tactics currently in use.
Norbu the Destroyer wrote:Tomb Kings army is powerful, but I cant imagine Dark Angels dont have anything to counter it with. My army had 2 flyers, and both were shot down turn 2. His army had 4 flying vehicles, and a flying monster. It came down to just a few dice rolls deciding the game. My army was pretty straight forward. The only army it matches up well against is meched up transport armies, that went away with the new edition. It just didnt have a major weakness vs whats currently out there. I would try to find something similr with Dark Angels. Finding well rounded units and getting practice games in goes a lot further than trying to buy the latest toys to keep up with the arms race.
None of those games were easy wins, but I had tools to deal with aspects of all those armies.
Damn man, so that is where all the daemon players were. I was actually looking forward to playing them with my list. Just noticed that I didnt play a single pure daemon list. The list was tooled to kill that list if need be. In addition, I really wanted to play against that 7 fliers list. I think my AB's would of helped give me the edge in that match-up.
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
[My army was pretty straight forward. The only army it matches up well against is meched up transport armies, that went away with the new edition. It just didnt have a major weakness vs whats currently out there. I would try to find something similr with Dark Angels. Finding well rounded units and getting practice games in goes a lot further than trying to buy the latest toys to keep up with the arms race.
...
None of those games were easy wins, but I had tools to deal with aspects of all those armies.
Thanks for your response. But i think the critical thing you said is "didnt have a major weakness". I find that necrons are really the only army that can build lists that do this, every other army i have encountered in my limited time, has a weakness be it in mobility, shooting, assault, resilience, psychic defense, etc. the only place necrons are weak is psy defense, but they are so strong everywhere else that it is really never a problem. I suppose you could argue the counter to necrons is tyranids (especially when played by jy2) but honestly i dont think they have one. This is why necrons are the default TAC army of 6th ed. My comment regarding fw however still stands, because it upsets the balance of power that exists within the codex hierarchy, youll notice that in the tournament environment of the bao, there were no necro-lists in the top 15 i think, which internet wisdom would tell you should not happen. However i dont want to hijack someone elses thread or sully their glory. Winning a tournament is not an easy feat, at the end of the day top armies will face each other and then what seperates them is tactics and dice, but first you have to earn the right to play for it.
I promised not to ruin it so here goes my comments:
Thank you for your kind words for the running of our event. I am my staff try to run a tight ship but have fun with it. So far in 2 years we have had only 2 upset people each year. 1st year it was an Ork player that didn't upset that Ghazgul could be turned into a spawn and left, to this year a player that had too much ,but I was able to talk him into taking a game off and coming back.
We at The Indy Open are here for you all, the players, to run a great event and hopefully bring you back next year.
I watched the game from start to end for the most part and want to give props to Hanz for his tactic to pull your wraiths into the middle and multi assault them. Ingenious tactic!
I also believe your prince crunching the arc was key as you indicated. You locked him in his table half making him walk.
Killing Trazyan was the reason you won in my opinion. Trayzan would have held the middle if he got in combat with the 5 warriors, then held that objective most likely. Also having the 5 extra points in your right corner was crucial. If Hanz would have assaultd the barge first then your warriors in the following turn he would have gotten that table quarter also changing the game.
BUT things happen and it was an amazing game. One of the best I have ever watched! Great Job to both of you! It is also amazing that you both ended up playing a rematch. This truly was the Lakers vs Celtics. I look forward to next year.
And you are right I was busting your chops! But I also ensured you got some sleep right?????
Congratus to Brett Perkins/Tomb King as the Indy Open 2013 Grand Tournament Best General and 2013 Invitee to The Nova Open Inviatational Tournament!
And I still want to play you...Cause your daemon prince sucks! LOL!
2013/03/21 20:34:38
Subject: Re:Indy Open GT Report - The Ugly Misfits make their debute...7 of 7 posted(GT REPORT COMPLETED)
Polythemus wrote:[My army was pretty straight forward. The only army it matches up well against is meched up transport armies, that went away with the new edition. It just didnt have a major weakness vs whats currently out there. I would try to find something similar with Dark Angels. Finding well rounded units and getting practice games in goes a lot further than trying to buy the latest toys to keep up with the arms race.
...
None of those games were easy wins, but I had tools to deal with aspects of all those armies.
Thanks for your response. But i think the critical thing you said is "didnt have a major weakness". I find that necrons are really the only army that can build lists that do this, every other army i have encountered in my limited time, has a weakness be it in mobility, shooting, assault, resilience, psychic defense, etc. the only place necrons are weak is psy defense, but they are so strong everywhere else that it is really never a problem. I suppose you could argue the counter to necrons is tyranids (especially when played by jy2) but honestly i dont think they have one. This is why necrons are the default TAC army of 6th ed. My comment regarding fw however still stands, because it upsets the balance of power that exists within the codex hierarchy, youll notice that in the tournament environment of the bao, there were no necro-lists in the top 15 i think, which internet wisdom would tell you should not happen. However i dont want to hijack someone elses thread or sully their glory. Winning a tournament is not an easy feat, at the end of the day top armies will face each other and then what seperates them is tactics and dice, but first you have to earn the right to play for it.
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:Best General? Best Cheesemonger!!!!!!!!!!
jokes aside, without FW there is no hard counter to a flying Daemon Prince.
With Forge World, DA Mortis Contemptors make sure no FMC ever gets near your army.
Some people are still of the belief that my list isnt that good or optimal for that matter. Either way regardless of the build no army is auto-win. A good tactician could win with just about any army. When I originally got into 40k I was a little free with the cash as I had received a 10k signing bonus from the army. This lead me to explore my options with armies. The only armies I have yet to play with are Orks, and Grey Knights. I have owned and/or played with every other army. The end result is I am able accurately assume the capabilities of most units in the game and what there strengths or weaknesses happen to be. In addition, I learned the strategies that are most favorable to those armies. I.E. The most likely objective my opponent given the mission set at hand.
As for forgeworld. It is pretty obvious the skewed the results for the BAO. The funny thing is it nerfed some armies but still failed to take out the true top army at the time. Daemons! Now with the new update daemons have become to unreliable and rock, paper, scissors. They run into hard counters against anti-psyker armies and grey knights wreck them now.
spaguatyrine wrote:I promised not to ruin it so here goes my comments:
Thank you for your kind words for the running of our event. I am my staff try to run a tight ship but have fun with it. So far in 2 years we have had only 2 upset people each year. 1st year it was an Ork player that didn't upset that Ghazgul could be turned into a spawn and left, to this year a player that had too much ,but I was able to talk him into taking a game off and coming back.
We at The Indy Open are here for you all, the players, to run a great event and hopefully bring you back next year.
I watched the game from start to end for the most part and want to give props to Hanz for his tactic to pull your wraiths into the middle and multi assault them. Ingenious tactic!
I also believe your prince crunching the arc was key as you indicated. You locked him in his table half making him walk.
Killing Trazyan was the reason you won in my opinion. Trayzan would have held the middle if he got in combat with the 5 warriors, then held that objective most likely. Also having the 5 extra points in your right corner was crucial. If Hanz would have assaultd the barge first then your warriors in the following turn he would have gotten that table quarter also changing the game.
BUT things happen and it was an amazing game. One of the best I have ever watched! Great Job to both of you! It is also amazing that you both ended up playing a rematch. This truly was the Lakers vs Celtics. I look forward to next year.
And you are right I was busting your chops! But I also ensured you got some sleep right?????
Congratus to Brett Perkins/Tomb King as the Indy Open 2013 Grand Tournament Best General and 2013 Invitee to The Nova Open Inviatational Tournament!
And I still want to play you...Cause your daemon prince sucks! LOL!
As for the big multi-charge I figured it was the best shot I had at seriously weakening one of his wraith squads. Either way I cut it his wraiths were gonna double tap my wraiths. At least in that situation I got the charge and reduced one significantly before the other arrived.
As for the trazyn thing. It only became an issue when the game continued. The general hope there was that I could atleast lock him in combat. Had they died we would of tied objectives and the game would of come down to a 4-4 tie with me having Line Breaker and First blood and him having Slay the warlord.
Thanks again for hosting the event and for the congrats. As for playing me. The die is cast my friend. Bring it!!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/21 20:34:59
TK - 2012 40K GT Record 18-5
4th in 2nd bracket Feast of Blades 2012 (IG/SoB); 4th Overall Midwest Massacre (IG/SW); 5th Overall Indy Open (IG); Final 16 Adepticon Open (IG)
TK - 2013 40K GT Record 24-4
Best General Indy Open (Crons/CSM)
Top 5! Bugeater GT (TauDar)
Final 4 Nova Invitational (Eldau)
Best Overall Midwest Massacre (Crons/CSM)
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
Mechanicus
Ravenwing
Deathwing
. What do you consider Necron Cheese? We have two very different list?
One 
I move the night scythe at the top over to his corner and disembark to contest his ruins. One squad of warriors walks in behind the cultist as that table quarter isn't looking too strong. I finish off the small unit of immortals and try to hurt his wraiths to no avail. The immobilized scythe leaves the board. I shoot one 
and the game ends. That was a grueling hard fought match. Sorry for a few mess ups in the report. It is hard to remember all the moving pieces and this month was crazy for my training down here.
... (Me: Does he have cover? "YES!"(from two tables away)... you didnt even look. 
