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So your right. Very odd that they put that trait on the weapon then. Can anyone other than soul grinders use it?

Breng77 wrote:


Except that dictates that you must have terrain that provides said cover save, and provides good LOS for your shooting. You also give up overwatch, and the ability to sweeping advance which makes a grider far less scary.

As mentioned, ruins, unless you play on a football pitch. Giving up overwatch isn't bad unless you have the flamer, which you wouldn't have anyway if sitting back and using the harvester and phlegm.


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 labmouse42 wrote:
So your right. Very odd that they put that trait on the weapon then. Can anyone other than soul grinders use it?

Just Grinders.

 mercer wrote:

Breng77 wrote:


Except that dictates that you must have terrain that provides said cover save, and provides good LOS for your shooting. You also give up overwatch, and the ability to sweeping advance which makes a grider far less scary.

As mentioned, ruins, unless you play on a football pitch. Giving up overwatch isn't bad unless you have the flamer, which you wouldn't have anyway if sitting back and using the harvester and phlegm.

As mentioned you need ruins that then don't block your own LOS, are in positions that grant good fire lanes etc, there are also times where Hills will be too tall to see over and won't grant cover. Vehicles don't get Area terrain cover so your previous mentioning of it is not true. I also said before Nurgle is OK if all you want to do is sit back with Plegm, but that is paying a decent amount of points for things you will never use. I prefer the options of the Tzeentch grinder with torrent.

Breng77 wrote:

Vehicles don't get Area terrain cover so your previous mentioning of it is not true. I also said before Nurgle is OK if all you want to do is sit back with Plegm, but that is paying a decent amount of points for things you will never use. I prefer the options of the Tzeentch grinder with torrent.

Random note - Soul Grinder is a walker, not a vehicle.

I like the idea of deep striking a nurgle soul grinder into cover. It's risky, but I think the payoff could be worth it - in that the thing that deep strikes might not be dead at the end of the next turn.

I dont know, in a more gunline type chaos army I could see a soul grinder being a nice addition to vindis and other such things.

Also be a nice deterrent to protect your home field scorers.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Does a skyshield landing pad with the flaps raised cover enough of a nurgle grinder to get the 3+ cover save?

No, the skyshield flaps are even smaller. However, the Soulgrinder would get a 4+ Invulnerable save.

at which point tzeench is nice, rerolling ones on a 4++ is good


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 mercer wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 mercer wrote:
Getting a 2+ cover save isn't much improvement over 5+ inv? Really? You can sit in cover and bomb from a far and then mooch up when the coast is clear. I am not sure about you but I would rather have a 2+ cover save than a 5+ inv.

getting the 2+ save requires modeling your grinder for advantage to get it below an ADL or having ruins conveniently around, at which point it is 2+ cover compared to 4+ cover AND a 5++. Most of the time you are going to be getting 5+ cover or nothing, so with shrouded that is 3+ cover or 5+ cover. On a model with a 5++, 5+ cover is worthless, 3+ cover is nice I agree, but it isnt the same as 3+ cover on a rifleman dread, because you already have the 5++. It increases your save chance, but you already had a save chance.

Why are you modeling for advantage? Why you talking about ADL for? I never mentioned them. You do not need to model the Soul Grinder for an advantage to get cover at all - just position it right. I am not sure what kind of board you play on, but I use plenty of ruins and a Soul Grinder can easily get a cover save, which is better than a 5+ invulnerable. Most time you will be getting a 4+ cover as it is ruins which will give the Soul Grinder cover, things which give 5+ cover are own units, craters, area terrain etc and only vehicles from own units will give the Grinder cover, which of course doesn't matter.

an ADL (or other purchased terrain) is the only thing you can guarentee in a TAC list. There might be a lot of ruins, they might not be. my point was, you cannot guarentee a 2+ cover save, and even if you could there are a lot of things that ignore cover and there will likely be more in the future.

PredaKhaine wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

Vehicles don't get Area terrain cover so your previous mentioning of it is not true. I also said before Nurgle is OK if all you want to do is sit back with Plegm, but that is paying a decent amount of points for things you will never use. I prefer the options of the Tzeentch grinder with torrent.

Random note - Soul Grinder is a walker, not a vehicle.

I like the idea of deep striking a nurgle soul grinder into cover. It's risky, but I think the payoff could be worth it - in that the thing that deep strikes might not be dead at the end of the next turn.

And since when were walkers not Vehicles? Pretty sure they rules for walkers are found in the Vehicle rules.

Breng77 wrote:


As mentioned you need ruins that then don't block your own LOS, are in positions that grant good fire lanes etc, there are also times where Hills will be too tall to see over and won't grant cover. Vehicles don't get Area terrain cover so your previous mentioning of it is not true. I also said before Nurgle is OK if all you want to do is sit back with Plegm, but that is paying a decent amount of points for things you will never use. I prefer the options of the Tzeentch grinder with torrent.

Again, I am not sure what ruins you play with. Where I play I use the G.W city ruins and also GF9 ruins, all these ruins have windows in, which the Soul Grinder can see through.

Yes I know vehicles do not get area terrain cover saves, though I never said the Grinder could get a cover save in area terrain, though that wasn't my point, my point was area terrain gives a 5+, which you was saying there is 5+ cover about.

If you don't like the nurgle upgrade then that's cool, though I think you're just throwing up weak defensive arguements to say why you don't like it. If you like tzeentch better then that's sound, whatever floats your boat .


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 Exergy wrote:


an ADL (or other purchased terrain) is the only thing you can guarentee in a TAC list. There might be a lot of ruins, they might not be. my point was, you cannot guarentee a 2+ cover save, and even if you could there are a lot of things that ignore cover and there will likely be more in the future.

No, an aegis defence line isn't guranteed in a take all comers list. You just presume some is going to take one. The same thing you said about ruins applies to the aegis, however there should be enough ruins as per the rules for terrain - 25% terrain including LOS blockers and tall buildings etc. If you are playing on a board not like this when you are on the wrong board.

What ignores cover at the moment? Flamers? They don't worry the Soul Grinder. Colossus? Won't do anything. I think the Blood Angels Stormraven missiles ignore cover, I might be wrong. Hive Guard ignoe cover. Hardly a lot of cover denying weaponry to threaten the Soul Grinder's 2+ cover save. Instead of worrying about the future worry about now.

 mercer wrote:

Breng77 wrote:


As mentioned you need ruins that then don't block your own LOS, are in positions that grant good fire lanes etc, there are also times where Hills will be too tall to see over and won't grant cover. Vehicles don't get Area terrain cover so your previous mentioning of it is not true. I also said before Nurgle is OK if all you want to do is sit back with Plegm, but that is paying a decent amount of points for things you will never use. I prefer the options of the Tzeentch grinder with torrent.

Again, I am not sure what ruins you play with. Where I play I use the G.W city ruins and also GF9 ruins, all these ruins have windows in, which the Soul Grinder can see through.

Yes I know vehicles do not get area terrain cover saves, though I never said the Grinder could get a cover save in area terrain, though that wasn't my point, my point was area terrain gives a 5+, which you was saying there is 5+ cover about.

If you don't like the nurgle upgrade then that's cool, though I think you're just throwing up weak defensive arguements to say why you don't like it. If you like tzeentch better then that's sound, whatever floats your boat .


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 Exergy wrote:


an ADL (or other purchased terrain) is the only thing you can guarentee in a TAC list. There might be a lot of ruins, they might not be. my point was, you cannot guarentee a 2+ cover save, and even if you could there are a lot of things that ignore cover and there will likely be more in the future.

No, an aegis defence line isn't guranteed in a take all comers list. You just presume some is going to take one. The same thing you said about ruins applies to the aegis, however there should be enough ruins as per the rules for terrain - 25% terrain including LOS blockers and tall buildings etc. If you are playing on a board not like this when you are on the wrong board.

What ignores cover at the moment? Flamers? They don't worry the Soul Grinder. Colossus? Won't do anything. I think the Blood Angels Stormraven missiles ignore cover, I might be wrong. Hive Guard ignoe cover. Hardly a lot of cover denying weaponry to threaten the Soul Grinder's 2+ cover save. Instead of worrying about the future worry about now.

LOS depends on how the ruins are constructed, it is possible to construct GW ruins where there are not great windows, and for the Harvester you are measuring from the gun (on his arm). That said is where you play you play with all terrain being ruins (typically I only have about 2 ruins on the table.), and all those ruins having good windows, then sure nurgle is fine. I just think it is overcosted for that purpose(being a gun platform alone)

 mercer wrote:

 Exergy wrote:


an ADL (or other purchased terrain) is the only thing you can guarentee in a TAC list. There might be a lot of ruins, they might not be. my point was, you cannot guarentee a 2+ cover save, and even if you could there are a lot of things that ignore cover and there will likely be more in the future.

No, an aegis defence line isn't guranteed in a take all comers list. You just presume some is going to take one. The same thing you said about ruins applies to the aegis, however there should be enough ruins as per the rules for terrain - 25% terrain including LOS blockers and tall buildings etc. If you are playing on a board not like this when you are on the wrong board.

What ignores cover at the moment? Flamers? They don't worry the Soul Grinder. Colossus? Won't do anything. I think the Blood Angels Stormraven missiles ignore cover, I might be wrong. Hive Guard ignoe cover. Hardly a lot of cover denying weaponry to threaten the Soul Grinder's 2+ cover save. Instead of worrying about the future worry about now.

you can indeed guarentee an ADL is there, by taking one yourself.

Close combat ignores cover
Vector Strike ignores cover
newcron sweep attacks ignore cover
TFC ignores cover
Blastmasters ignore cover
Firedragon Exarchs ignore cover
Dark Reaper Exarchs ignore cover

Why would you want to gurantee an aegis defence line by taking one when we have established the Soul Grinder will not get cover behind it? And if the Soul Grinder is getting cover then clearly some shifty business going on. Still not sure why you're saying guraneteed aegis when clearly you cannot get cover for a Soul Grinder for it.

Close combat from a monstrous creature or Dreadnought which has to walk up across the board to the Soul Grinder while the Grinder is sitting in cover dropping blast templates?

Vector strike is S7 max so far, needs 6+ to glance, wow.

Necrons sweep attack has the board length to travel, if you haven't stopped it you have done something wrong.

Thunderfire is S6 max if I remember right so cannot hurt Soul Grinder, presume you're talking about Thunderfire?

Blastermaster is S8 and need a 5+ to glance.

Fire Dragons are short ranged, again if they reach you then you have done something wrong. Only an Dragon Exarch on a quad gun etc would be useful, which is wasteful.

Dark Reaper I think is S8 for Exarch, correct me if I am wrong, but again nothing uber awesome.

If you do not like the nurgle upgrade for the Soul Grinder then that's fine, but saying things like take an aegis to get cover and then stating you need to model for advatage to get cover is just daft. If you're not getting cover on a Soul Grinder then you're not playing on a proper board.

you keep stating that like every board provides cover in a position that the soul grinder will actually be able to be effective, draw LOS for good fire lanes etc. Not all of them do I said in my post that nurgle is a good option for what you are suggesting to do. Just not the best option IMO, for using a soul grinder.

That's my point, every board should, because it's in the rules like.

But if you do not think nurgle upgrade is best for the Soul Grinder then that's your opinion and that's totally cool.

OK, so how about a Bastion with a Nurgle Soulgrinder? You get to position it and should be able to hide it without argument for the 2+ (unlike the aegis), although I guess you'd probably reduce it's field of fire bit.

As a 'home base' to defend obejctives, how about a bastion with PB's inside, herald on the roof with a icarus quadcannon and grinder 1/4 behind the bastion firing it's phlegm cannon?

Is the soul grinder larger than the defiler?, There aren't many daemon players at my FLGS and I used my defiler as a proxy for some matches, the ADL definitively cover 25% of my defilers. Nothing ever shot him so there was never the 2+ cover involved on a game. Outside that it worked great helping my havocs hold some termies as soon as they deep stroke behind them

I've not seen them side by side, but I believe the Soulgrinder is a lot taller and more 'top heavy' than the defiler, so proportianatly more of it's mass is above the ADL.