Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

To keep it as cheap and effective as possible, I'd give it Daemon of Khorne and Phlegm Bombardment. 165 points. Remember that you can only take ONE other shooting weapon, and do to the grinder's crappy BS warpgaze isn't worth it..

I don't feel that an extra attack is worth 2.5 bloodletters so warpblade is staying at home.

I'm thinking of using just the harvester gun and DoTz. Cheap multi purpose unit with reasonable durability.

I think with SGs you will need at least 2. I will be taking mine with mark of nurgle and phlegm. MoN gives shrouding so if you get any cover you get a nicer save. it also provides defensive grenades which shave off attacks from incoming assaults and provides stealth to shooting within 8" (very nice vs melta guns/pistols/heat lances). It also provides slow and purposeful so you can move and fire your ordnance.

I was initially going to go 3 SGs in heavy, but I might try 2 SGs and a Skull Cannon first.

The SoulGrinder is already relentless as its a vehicle, SnP means it can't Overwatch. Its purely a disadvantage. Yes, it can overwatch as its a Walker.

Dundas wrote:

That's what I thought at first, but cheapest version you can get is 145 points (without any marks) which doesn't seem much of a bargain to me given the relatively low BS, st and number of shots.

I get that they might have other merits but I'm struggling to see them ever being effective anti air.

Don't forget that with Tzeentch divination is abundant, and thus you should be able to get prescience off.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Dundas wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:


1) if you're taking a soul grinder purely for antiair, you're wasting it. Give it another weapon and let it cause some real damage.
.

Totally this - the lists I've seen so far seem to think they're for putting behind an ADL and using for anti air. I just can't see that working.

It is behind the ADL for the 2+ cover not for the antiair, as mentioned above the antiair is just an extra, having a station firing large blasts AP3 that wil take forever to kill due to the cover and high armor and if you ever need a final glancing or something on a flyer you can go with the cannon.

Edit: The debate due to cover will depend a lot on how the soul grinder was assembled but for the standards I think the ADL should have no problem covering 25% of the soul grinder's height.

Maybe if you make it crawling around and lying flat... Stick it in a ruin or a forest though and it'll easily be rocking a 3+ save at least.

 xSPYXEx wrote:
DoN gives it Shrouded, which helps it survive and whatnot.

DoS gives it Rending, which DOES make it a threat to most fliers.

You can give it the Phlegm Cannon/Warp gaze as well, which is good for splattering foot soldiers while waiting for fliers to come in range.

As far as I know, having Rending USR only makes your close combat attacks rending. Read the rulebook p41 description carefully.

Correct, having Rending on the model affects close combat attacks *only*. The only circumstance in which it would help is attacking vehicles in close combat with high armour if the Iron Claw's been destroyed, which is all kinds of silly specific.

I still say having a Soul Grinder stuck behind an ADL is a waste. It's AV13 and 4 HP, for goodness' sake. The one thing it's really vulnerable to - high Strength or melta shots from the rear - is still a problem with any kind of Deep Strikers. It's better getting it stuck in so it can support your other units in combat towards the end game.

Will grinders provide enough AA or do we need FMCs?

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Dundas wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:


1) if you're taking a soul grinder purely for antiair, you're wasting it. Give it another weapon and let it cause some real damage.
.

Totally this - the lists I've seen so far seem to think they're for putting behind an ADL and using for anti air. I just can't see that working.

It is behind the ADL for the 2+ cover not for the antiair, as mentioned above the antiair is just an extra, having a station firing large blasts AP3 that wil take forever to kill due to the cover and high armor and if you ever need a final glancing or something on a flyer you can go with the cannon.

Edit: The debate due to cover will depend a lot on how the soul grinder was assembled but for the standards I think the ADL should have no problem covering 25% of the soul grinder's height.

Maybe if you make it crawling around and lying flat... Stick it in a ruin or a forest though and it'll easily be rocking a 3+ save at least.

I'm at work atm but according to this http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/229269.page a soul grinder is an average of 6" x 4", the ADL assuming it cover the full length would leave us to see if the height of the ADL covers the 25% height of the soul grinder. The ADL is 1.56" on the tallest sections, which is 26% of the 6", so the soul grinder would be granted cover as long as most of his body is behind the small sections (which are also the tallest), also this is assuming the target is at the same distance and level as the soul grinder is from the wall. The further the shooting model gets while the soul grinder is closer the % would increase.

You can also place him straight behind the quadgun/icarus/relay which are a lot taller and bulkier and still claim the cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 minigun762 wrote:
Will grinders provide enough AA or do we need FMCs?

Don't think they are a good antiair on their own, rather have some princes/greater daemons flying around or just ignore flyers while swarming the table with lots of cheap daemons

They'll do just fine against individual fliers (barring a Stormraven). They won't be able to keep up with Vendetta or Night Scythe spam, but then... what can, except fighting fire with fire?

Did someone state it has intercept?

that in itself is worth its weight in gold - ork fliers in particular, but even storm ravens and the ilk can rightfully poop themselves if intercept is in the opponent force - nothing more disheartening then losing your flier, potentially with troops inside, before its had a chance to do anything!

Not only does it have intersept. It also has not interscept :-)

edit: No wait, skyfire.

It's Skyfire, but it's NOT Interceptor.

Dundas wrote:


You can also place him straight behind the quadgun/icarus/relay which are a lot taller and bulkier and still claim the cover.

This.

I don't know how other people assembled theirs but my SGs are not 6" tall. Those legs are just ball sockets and give you flexibility on how high or low you want it to stand. I'm not talking about modeling for advantage here just that you can make it really tall or squat it down some like a spider. If you angl it right the front 2 legs don't even have to be touching the table. I suspect some people made theirs really tall in order to reduce the footprint for deepstrikes.

All I need to do is cut the swords off 2 of mine as no way those are worth the points for me.

Breng77 wrote:
It is an AV 13 Vehicle with 4 Hull points, a 5++ save, Skyfire, and decent other shooting, (Plegm or Torrent attack are both decent) it is good in CC (5 attacks on the charge at S 10)

All the marks are decent (Khorne is free, Tzeentch re-roll 1s on its save for cheap, Nurgle for Shrouded(is probably the worst as getting cover is not that easy and it already has a 5++) and Slaanesh for rending.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but rending does not confer to its guns.

Nurgle is the best mark as gives +2 cover save. Not hard to get 25% cover with the right scenery. Rending is pretty useless on something which is S10 AP2, the run isn't worth it either really as it is a more shooting unit with skyfire and the phelgm attack.

Not sure how yours are not about 6" tall the body itself is like 4" tall, so unless it is sitting on the gound, the model is easily 6" tall.

 mercer wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
It is an AV 13 Vehicle with 4 Hull points, a 5++ save, Skyfire, and decent other shooting, (Plegm or Torrent attack are both decent) it is good in CC (5 attacks on the charge at S 10)

All the marks are decent (Khorne is free, Tzeentch re-roll 1s on its save for cheap, Nurgle for Shrouded(is probably the worst as getting cover is not that easy and it already has a 5++) and Slaanesh for rending.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but rending does not confer to its guns.

Nurgle is the best mark as gives +2 cover save. Not hard to get 25% cover with the right scenery. Rending is pretty useless on something which is S10 AP2, the run isn't worth it either really as it is a more shooting unit with skyfire and the phelgm attack.

it already has a 5++ so getting cover isnt so much of a requirement.

Getting a 2+ cover save isn't much improvement over 5+ inv? Really? You can sit in cover and bomb from a far and then mooch up when the coast is clear. I am not sure about you but I would rather have a 2+ cover save than a 5+ inv.

 Exergy wrote:

 mercer wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
It is an AV 13 Vehicle with 4 Hull points, a 5++ save, Skyfire, and decent other shooting, (Plegm or Torrent attack are both decent) it is good in CC (5 attacks on the charge at S 10)

All the marks are decent (Khorne is free, Tzeentch re-roll 1s on its save for cheap, Nurgle for Shrouded(is probably the worst as getting cover is not that easy and it already has a 5++) and Slaanesh for rending.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but rending does not confer to its guns.

Nurgle is the best mark as gives +2 cover save. Not hard to get 25% cover with the right scenery. Rending is pretty useless on something which is S10 AP2, the run isn't worth it either really as it is a more shooting unit with skyfire and the phelgm attack.

it already has a 5++ so getting cover isnt so much of a requirement.

So thinking about this some more I would rank the marks as follows

Tzeentch is the best (by quite a bit IMO), allows you to re-roll ones (not a big deal but pretty nice ) for your 5++ save, is cheap, and the warpstorm result has no effect (Run him Cheap, Tzeentch and Torrent for 160 points)

Nurgle: Not that great Shrouded is ok but you have a 5++ so unless you can get 25% coverage this does not make a big difference. That said if you can get it this is very nice, but only for a back field sitting soulgrinder(otherwise you frequently won't have cover. Also warp storm does nothing., as slow and purposeful hurts (no run, no overwatch, and no sweeping, which is a big one because then squads can just run away if they cannot hurt him with no risk.). Build him Nurgle, Plegm, for sitting back behind cover (runs 180 points)

Khorne: Hey its free...does not add a lot (furious charge, adds nothing you are already S10, unless you take the sword, but you won't) Warp storm here can hurt you (S6 rending.) Run cheap like Tzeentch, but I would pay the 5 points for the re-rolls + ignoring warpstorm results.

Slaanesh: The run is ok, but you have decent shooting weapons, fleet is nice as well, rending is Meh, warpstorm here hurts with S8, mark is pretty expensive. I would probably run him mark and torrent for 170 points.

Overall I would say take the cheaper options, I think they will serve you better.

I think the main draw back to the Nurgle Phlegm Grinder is why not just take a Leman Russ instead? Easier to hide, cheap (both points and $) and more durable.

 mercer wrote:
Getting a 2+ cover save isn't much improvement over 5+ inv? Really? You can sit in cover and bomb from a far and then mooch up when the coast is clear. I am not sure about you but I would rather have a 2+ cover save than a 5+ inv.

getting the 2+ save requires modeling your grinder for advantage to get it below an ADL or having ruins conveniently around, at which point it is 2+ cover compared to 4+ cover AND a 5++. Most of the time you are going to be getting 5+ cover or nothing, so with shrouded that is 3+ cover or 5+ cover. On a model with a 5++, 5+ cover is worthless, 3+ cover is nice I agree, but it isnt the same as 3+ cover on a rifleman dread, because you already have the 5++. It increases your save chance, but you already had a save chance.

 minigun762 wrote:
I think the main draw back to the Nurgle Phlegm Grinder is why not just take a Leman Russ instead? Easier to hide, cheap (both points and $) and more durable.

Because it is cheaper points wise unless you are already planning to run IG allies. Because you are not running IG allies and are running something else as allies? There are reasons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mercer wrote:
Getting a 2+ cover save isn't much improvement over 5+ inv? Really? You can sit in cover and bomb from a far and then mooch up when the coast is clear. I am not sure about you but I would rather have a 2+ cover save than a 5+ inv.

Except that dictates that you must have terrain that provides said cover save, and provides good LOS for your shooting. You also give up overwatch, and the ability to sweeping advance which makes a grider far less scary.

I think I'm pretty much going to be taking a daemon allied detachment simply to take the soulgrinder and give my defiler model a purpose (currently it's role is a paper-weight).

Speaking of which anyone have any good defiler to soulgrinder conversions?

Does a skyshield landing pad with the flaps raised cover enough of a nurgle grinder to get the 3+ cover save?

 minigun762 wrote:
I think the main draw back to the Nurgle Phlegm Grinder is why not just take a Leman Russ instead? Easier to hide, cheap (both points and $) and more durable.

Cuz a Russ doesn't have Skyfire?

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Does a skyshield landing pad with the flaps raised cover enough of a nurgle grinder to get the 3+ cover save?

No, the skyshield flaps are even smaller. However, the Soulgrinder would get a 4+ Invulnerable save.

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm failing to see the value of the warpsword. Paying more points for a lower S worse AP weapon doesn't make sense to me.

The iron claw is unwieldy.

The warpsword strikes at I3. The warpsword also is going to be wounding most things on 2s and not giving armor saves. Since its master-crafted its also going to be hitting more often.

Finally, a warpsword does not replace the iron claw. Its an extra weapon. This means the soulgrinder gets an extra attack in CC and has the option of using the STR 6, AP3 attack if they are fighting normal old 'mech.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 minigun762 wrote:
I think the main draw back to the Nurgle Phlegm Grinder is why not just take a Leman Russ instead? Easier to hide, cheap (both points and $) and more durable.

10 TAC marines that get near a LRBT will stick krak gernades down its tail pipe and kill it. Those same 10 TACs will die horribly if they get that close to a soul grinder.

Walkers ignore unwieldy

 Exergy wrote:

 mercer wrote:
Getting a 2+ cover save isn't much improvement over 5+ inv? Really? You can sit in cover and bomb from a far and then mooch up when the coast is clear. I am not sure about you but I would rather have a 2+ cover save than a 5+ inv.

getting the 2+ save requires modeling your grinder for advantage to get it below an ADL or having ruins conveniently around, at which point it is 2+ cover compared to 4+ cover AND a 5++. Most of the time you are going to be getting 5+ cover or nothing, so with shrouded that is 3+ cover or 5+ cover. On a model with a 5++, 5+ cover is worthless, 3+ cover is nice I agree, but it isnt the same as 3+ cover on a rifleman dread, because you already have the 5++. It increases your save chance, but you already had a save chance.

Why are you modeling for advantage? Why you talking about ADL for? I never mentioned them. You do not need to model the Soul Grinder for an advantage to get cover at all - just position it right. I am not sure what kind of board you play on, but I use plenty of ruins and a Soul Grinder can easily get a cover save, which is better than a 5+ invulnerable. Most time you will be getting a 4+ cover as it is ruins which will give the Soul Grinder cover, things which give 5+ cover are own units, craters, area terrain etc and only vehicles from own units will give the Grinder cover, which of course doesn't matter.