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With the new daemons codex I'm seeing quite a few lists taking 2-3 Soulgrinders and looking at the stats and points cost on them I'm struggling to see why. They seem pretty underwhealming as anti air - three BS3 st 7 shots isn't a huge threat to most flyers. Even with 3 soulgrinders that's only 9 BS 3, st 7, which as far as I can tell isn't much better than a single quad cannon.

So why are people using them? Is it anti air, or for the other attacks?

I get that with Nurgle it gets quite a decent cover save (assuming you can hide the big model), but even still, it seems a lot of points for what it does.

My understanding was that they were cheap for a skyfire AV13 model.

DoN gives it Shrouded, which helps it survive and whatnot.

DoS gives it Rending, which DOES make it a threat to most fliers.

You can give it the Phlegm Cannon/Warp gaze as well, which is good for splattering foot soldiers while waiting for fliers to come in range.

That's what I thought at first, but cheapest version you can get is 145 points (without any marks) which doesn't seem much of a bargain to me given the relatively low BS, st and number of shots.

I get that they might have other merits but I'm struggling to see them ever being effective anti air.

Personally, I'd just ignore aircraft, they're not capable of sitting still long enough to do much damage to me. (This may be because my friends are sporting enough to never use more than one, if any).

 xSPYXEx wrote:
DoN gives it Shrouded, which helps it survive and whatnot.

DoS gives it Rending, which DOES make it a threat to most fliers.

You can give it the Phlegm Cannon/Warp gaze as well, which is good for splattering foot soldiers while waiting for fliers to come in range.

Pretty sure the Rending only works on melee

It is an AV 13 Vehicle with 4 Hull points, a 5++ save, Skyfire, and decent other shooting, (Plegm or Torrent attack are both decent) it is good in CC (5 attacks on the charge at S 10)

All the marks are decent (Khorne is free, Tzeentch re-roll 1s on its save for cheap, Nurgle for Shrouded(is probably the worst as getting cover is not that easy and it already has a 5++) and Slaanesh for rending.)


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but rending does not confer to its guns.

Unfortunatly both those marks are 15pts, meaning your paying 160 in total which is a lot if the main purpose is anti flyer.

The phelem cannon and warp gaze might be nice, although for an army that mostly wants to be assaulting as much as possible I'm not convinced by large blast ordinance getting much use.

Dundas wrote:

That's what I thought at first, but cheapest version you can get is 145 points (without any marks) which doesn't seem much of a bargain to me given the relatively low BS, st and number of shots.

I get that they might have other merits but I'm struggling to see them ever being effective anti air.

145 points for 3 BS3, str 7 shots compared with 175 for 4 BS 4 shots of Flakk missile devistators or havocs.

Things to consider, CSM can spam divination so those shots can be TL easily. CSM have no divination and DA cant exactly spam it.
The SG has intercept, so it can fire at flyers the turn they come in, devs and havocs cannot.
AV13 is tough in this meta, especilly at range. 5 T4 3+ bodies are pretty easy to kill, even in cover by comparison. People are use to killing Long Fangs and Lootas.

I think the soul grinder is more effective than DA devs or CSM havocs with flakk. Now I dont know if they are competitively very good but they are better AA than the other 2 6th edition codex's have.

Keep a Tzeentch herald nearby (packed into a unit of Horrors if you like) and you can throw Prescience on the Grinder, making it significantly more dangerous. Now that St.10 Ap.1 shot becomes much more likely to hit. And those skyfire rounds look more potent as well.

I just find it an odd anti flyer design. Most of the flyers I see locally (i.e. vendettas and storm ravens) would have a much better chance of taking out a grinder before it was likely to kill them, although I admit I forgot about it having the 5++ which helps.


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I'll need to re-check the codex but I didn't think it had interceptor. If it does that helps a lot, otherwise I could see a good chance that vendettas and storm ravens would have a good chance of popping even AV13 before the grinder can even shoot.

Dundas wrote:

I just find it an odd anti flyer design. Most of the flyers I see locally (i.e. vendettas and storm ravens) would have a much better chance of taking out a grinder before it was likely to kill them, although I admit I forgot about it having the 5++ which helps.


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I'll need to re-check the codex but I didn't think it had interceptor. If it does that helps a lot, otherwise I could see a good chance that vendettas and storm ravens would have a good chance of popping even AV13 before the grinder can even shoot.

I thought it had both, but the 4 HP and 5++ will help it survive

The Soulgrinder is a lot more than JUST Anti-Air though. It's a powerful walker, than can be kitted to fill any holes in you army, and it's very durable.

Keep in mind, that even Lascannons are going to have a bit of difficulty putting it down, as they only have a 33% to pen it, and it has a 5++ save to help against this. With 4 HP they are not going to be easy to glance to death either.

Soul grinder has always been good, the new edition didn't change that.

I'm planning on allying daemons only to field one of them with my CSM army. One with DoN, behind an ADL is a 2+ cover save walker with 4 hullpoints, 13 armor and ignores shaken and stunned on 2-6 (assuming it works just like the chaos marines possessed). It will also sit behind the havocs manning the quadgun which means that any unit infiltrating/deepstriking will have to face the soul grinder in CC as well as the havocs.

Also would be a nice way to use my defilers again, since the CSM rules suck for them

Yes, its the most durable Skyfire option that isn't a Flyer. And it doesn't have to pay anything extra for the Flakk shells.

 Gargantuan wrote:

 xSPYXEx wrote:
DoN gives it Shrouded, which helps it survive and whatnot.

DoS gives it Rending, which DOES make it a threat to most fliers.

You can give it the Phlegm Cannon/Warp gaze as well, which is good for splattering foot soldiers while waiting for fliers to come in range.

Pretty sure the Rending only works on melee

Even if it did give rending to ranged, it would be pointless as all the current Flyers are at most AV12, which a roll of 6 on Str7 will penetrate anyway.

I'm not sure the grinder gets enough cover from an ADL - there's been some debate about it in other threads. I'm thinking a Bastion might be a better option for hiding it behind if that's the way you're going.

I checked and it doesn't have interceptor. No matter how durable it is, one isn't going to take down an AV12 flier without a lot of luck. Someone can mathhammer properly if they want, but I'm thinking one round of fire at BS3 give 1-2 hits, and each hit then needs a 6 to penetrate. Not good odds.

What I'm thinking is that rather than sitting it in backfield then using the grinder's deep strike might be worthwhile. It means it can take more advantage of it's close combat goodness, and can maybe position better for hitting back armour.

Optimal you would give him shroud and attack things turn 1. Turn 2 uase a herlland of thenzt to give him twinlink and fire with the skyfire hitting with 2 attacks. Perhaps penetrating with one.

Or use it for mellee with slanesh lore. AV 13 is just mean.

Its really hard to hurt AV 12 flyers.
What it can do is hurt AV 11 flyers like 'crons.

Anecdote time! I took one in a game recently with Warp Gaze that took out two Helbrutes and held up a unit of Chosen in combat, losing only one hull point all game. I realise luck played a part there but the experience taught me two things...

1) if you're taking a soul grinder purely for antiair, you're wasting it. Give it another weapon and let it cause some real damage.
2) never forget that as a walker, it can fire both its weapons...that might mean a lucky snap shot on a flyer or a lucky glance off of a ground vehicle.

 Super Ready wrote:


1) if you're taking a soul grinder purely for antiair, you're wasting it. Give it another weapon and let it cause some real damage.
.

Totally this - the lists I've seen so far seem to think they're for putting behind an ADL and using for anti air. I just can't see that working.

On AV11 v 12, yeah, my local meta is mosly helldrakes, vendettas and storm ravens so I'm a bit biased. I guess it's a bit better against 'crons and so on. Still think BS3 without twin linked really cripple's it's effectiveness for shooting though. Like most other things in the codex, it'll have more use ploughing into close combat.

Does it still have It will not die? because that also makes it more than worth 160pts.

I wouldnt buy it solely for anti air but I would use it regularly against most troops and if they brough fliers then why not shoot at them with sky fire

The souldgrinder just seem like a good allround unit. It just happens to have skyfire.

Rending won't do much for flyers because nothing outside forge world has av13, but 6 rending shots against a vindicator or land raider can cause some damage. That's even worth prescience imo.

Rending can also be mean on the torrent flamer.

Purely as an ackack a soul grinder is meh, but it's not pure ack ack. It can intercept a flyer then run or charge a ground target with 5 power fist attacks at s10.

 Niiai wrote:
The souldgrinder just seem like a good allround unit. It just happens to have skyfire.

yes, unlike flakk havocs it is good at other things.

I'm failing to see the value of the warpsword. Paying more points for a lower S worse AP weapon doesn't make sense to me.

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm failing to see the value of the warpsword. Paying more points for a lower S worse AP weapon doesn't make sense to me.

It's master-crafted so you get a reroll I guess. Not sure if it then means you're wielding two specialist weapons and get an extra attack?

But yeah, can't see anyone taking it much.

I suppose the sword would be for a second turn of close combat vs power armor. Do you get ecstra aattack?

Also remember walkers get +1 attack for every extra weapon they have. So it is an option to get a free re-roll if fighting a target where it doesnt matter, as well as getting +1 attack


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Also remember walkers get +1 attack for every extra weapon they have. So it is an option to get a free re-roll if fighting a target where it doesnt matter, as well as getting +1 attack

Dundas wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:


1) if you're taking a soul grinder purely for antiair, you're wasting it. Give it another weapon and let it cause some real damage.
.

Totally this - the lists I've seen so far seem to think they're for putting behind an ADL and using for anti air. I just can't see that working.

It is behind the ADL for the 2+ cover not for the antiair, as mentioned above the antiair is just an extra, having a station firing large blasts AP3 that wil take forever to kill due to the cover and high armor and if you ever need a final glancing or something on a flyer you can go with the cannon.

Edit: The debate due to cover will depend a lot on how the soul grinder was assembled but for the standards I think the ADL should have no problem covering 25% of the soul grinder's height.